Was I out of line?

[azstu324]

So this post is actually a 2 part question. It was sparked by the round of golf that I played yesterday. 

I was paired with 1 other single and a father/son couple. All were super solid guys and we had a great round. The other single and I kind of hit it off with similar personalities. That said, he wasn't having a great round and his irons weren't consistent at all. We were playing my favorite little exec so there were a few more par 3 holes than usual. This exec is spread out really well so many of the par 3's are decent lengths of 160-200 yds.

Throughout the round I was constantly getting "what club are you using?", And "how come I didn't hit as far as you?". Finally on about hole 12, I had to break it to the guy. Mizuno MP 30's were just another galaxy away for from where his game was. He had a beautiful set of really well maintained blades but they really were probably the worst choice for a guy like him.. so I told him that. I asked if yesterday was just a particularly bad day, or if that was his usual game. Well it was his usual game. So I asked why he continued to play clubs that were so difficult when there are a lot of options that would be so much better for him.. He said "I just really wanted mizunos", and "but when I hit one pure there's no better feeling". Unfortunately I didn't see him hit one pure the whole day so he was really just chasing a dream IMO .. and when he thought he hit one well, I could still tell it was either fat or thin and he didn't even know what he was looking for. The 1 shot that he actually pured was pulled about 20 yds left. 

When we finished the round, I told him to keep the clubs because they were beautifully kept timeless classics that could one day be a great club for him. I also told him to consider looking for some good GI clubs if he really wanted to enjoy the game, get good with those and then decide if he wanted to move back to the blades. Then I told him that my blade game was about a 3 year, very proactive process in the making and when I started the process, I was quite a bit ahead of where he's at now. Additionally, and for additional perspective, I told him that I probably shouldn't even be playing blades but because I hit the ball equally as well with them than without them, I justified making the switch this year.  

Question 1: was I out of line by telling a guy that I barely knew that he was using the wrong clubs and that if he continued using them that he'd learn to hate the game before he learned to love it? He seemed to be pretty receptive but also seemed kind of bummed at the same time.. but such is life in the world of golf. You don't just go to the top, you have to work VERY hard to get there. 

Question 2: (This one is more of a personal question) When can the transition to MB/CB blades be deemed responsible and justified? I know this question comes with a lot of tabu and personal opinion but I'm curious if there can be a general consensus. I'm still questioning whether or not my game is even worthy.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm not playing any worse than with my previous techy, players distance set. I feel like blades won't prevent me from improving further, and I really like that they force me to stay laser focused and demand an extra level of swing maintenance in order to stay consistent. I don't feel intimidated or out of place in the slightest. If anything, having 2 shots with identical results, I'd easily take the shot made with the traditional blade over the techy, tungsten and polymer filled players distance iron. It's just more mentally gratifying knowing that a lot of work went into making that shot. 

Any feedback on both or either question is always appreciated! 

 

Cheers! 

 

[JerryB]

Can't answer the second one but to the first question, you weren't out of line at all.  If he's going to keep pestering you with questions along those lines, he need to hear those answers.  

I just started playing last year and I would tell the people I played with that I'm new and would appreciate any advice.  Most of that advice was good, some terrible, and a few pieces were a little ego crushing, though ultimately helpful.  This year I've decided to keep my mouth shut.

The point is, once you ask a question, you have to deal with an answer you may not like.

[sirchunksalot]

I will just give my opinion on question #1. I don't think you were out of line telling him that he's playing the wrong set for his game since he asked why you were hitting your iron better than he was. I think him asking opened the door for you to answer honestly. If you had just blurted something out like, "why are you playing blades? You don't have the game for them." or out the blue, I think that might have been construed as rude. 

I can understand his desire to have a set of Mizuno' s, I would love to have a set myself just to have one day. Their reputation is excellent and it would be fun just to have some to hit one day. 

I believe you were right in your opinion that he would be more likely to eventually get frustrated playing the game with them and he would have more fun playing a more forgiving set. 

[Shapotomous]

Regarding Question 1 - It's all in how you deliver the message. 

When asked a similar question I'll usually be kind of generic in my answer and just say there could be 8 different reasons the ball isn't going as far as he expects or in comparison to my shot.  I'll mention lofts are probably different between his and my clubs, shafts are different, swing speed, club path & face impact and spin rates have an effect, some clubs are more forgiving, etc....

And usually it never gets to the 7th or 8th reason where I would have to say their swing isn't as good as they think and their actual distance doesn't match their ego.  

[azstu324]

20 minutes ago, Shapotomous said:

Regarding Question 1 - It's all in how you deliver the message. 

When asked a similar question I'll usually be kind of generic in my answer and just say there could be 8 different reasons the ball isn't going as far as he expects or in comparison to my shot.  I'll mention lofts are probably different between his and my clubs, shafts are different, swing speed, club path & face impact and spin rates have an effect, some clubs are more forgiving, etc....

And usually it never gets to the 7th or 8th reason where I would have to say their swing isn't as good as they think and their actual distance doesn't match their ego.  

In most cases I too would keep my responses limited. I've gotten the "what club you using?" Question countless times. I've also just briefly brushed over the same general answers that you mentioned as to not take someone down a rabbit hole that they're not looking to go down. This guy seemed intently interested on improving and he was asking the questions so I felt that honesty was the best medicine. 

I did also tell him that golf is a game where the the joys MUST outweigh the trials. If you find that you're tipping more to the side of trials and frustration, you need to make some changes or you'll quit before you have a chance to get any better. (His game seemed like about 70% frustrating). I also told him that I'm constantly working on improving and looking for knowledge and that I'm in no way a master of the game but always a student and that is the mystery of golf (Sounds like an old king fu movie doesn't it? )

[RollingGreens]

1 hour ago, azstu324 said:

So this post is actually a 2 part question. It was sparked by the round of golf that I played yesterday. 

I was paired with 1 other single and a father/son couple. All were super solid guys and we had a great round. The other single and I kind of hit it off with similar personalities. That said, he wasn't having a great round and his irons weren't consistent at all. We were playing my favorite little exec so there were a few more par 3 holes than usual. This exec is spread out really well so many of the par 3's are decent lengths of 160-200 yds.

Throughout the round I was constantly getting "what club are you using?", And "how come I didn't hit as far as you?". Finally on about hole 12, I had to break it to the guy. Mizuno MP 30's were just another galaxy away for from where his game was. He had a beautiful set of really well maintained blades but they really were probably the worst choice for a guy like him.. so I told him that. I asked if yesterday was just a particularly bad day, or if that was his usual game. Well it was his usual game. So I asked why he continued to play clubs that were so difficult when there are a lot of options that would be so much better for him.. He said "I just really wanted mizunos", and "but when I hit one pure there's no better feeling". Unfortunately I didn't see him hit one pure the whole day so he was really just chasing a dream IMO .. and when he thought he hit one well, I could still tell it was either fat or thin and he didn't even know what he was looking for. The 1 shot that he actually pured was pulled about 20 yds left. 

When we finished the round, I told him to keep the clubs because they were beautifully kept timeless classics that could one day be a great club for him. I also told him to consider looking for some good GI clubs if he really wanted to enjoy the game, get good with those and then decide if he wanted to move back to the blades. Then I told him that my blade game was about a 3 year, very proactive process in the making and when I started the process, I was quite a bit ahead of where he's at now. Additionally, and for additional perspective, I told him that I probably shouldn't even be playing blades but because I hit the ball equally as well with them than without them, I justified making the switch this year.  

Question 1: was I out of line by telling a guy that I barely knew that he was using the wrong clubs and that if he continued using them that he'd learn to hate the game before he learned to love it? He seemed to be pretty receptive but also seemed kind of bummed at the same time.. but such is life in the world of golf. You don't just go to the top, you have to work VERY hard to get there. 

Question 2: (This one is more of a personal question) When can the transition to MB/CB blades be deemed responsible and justified? I know this question comes with a lot of tabu and personal opinion but I'm curious if there can be a general consensus. I'm still questioning whether or not my game is even worthy.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm not playing any worse than with my previous techy, players distance set. I feel like blades won't prevent me from improving further, and I really like that they force me to stay laser focused and demand an extra level of swing maintenance in order to stay consistent. I don't feel intimidated or out of place in the slightest. If anything, having 2 shots with identical results, I'd easily take the shot made with the traditional blade over the techy, tungsten and polymer filled players distance iron. It's just more mentally gratifying knowing that a lot of work went into making that shot. 

Any feedback on both or either question is always appreciated! 

 

Cheers! 

 

Honestly if the other guy is going to keep asking you for info on why his shots aren’t as good of quality or aren’t going as far he’s asking for your input. Doesn’t sounds like you really put him down too hard, just some honest truthfulness. Sounds like someone who walked in and had decided what they were buying without ever testing anything. It’s ok to play blades if you’re not good enough, but if you’re a bad ball striker you live with the consequences and don’t hound someone on comparing shots. 
 

I think the second part is a personal preference, you could do it at any point. Probably not justified if you are a bad ball striker. I’ve thought about this myself and formulated it to the point that you play blades when you want the challenge of working the ball and performing good strikes each swing. I play GI and I could afford to play something with a little less offset and not as much forgiveness but it would likely take a small hit to my scoring and I would have to be that much better with my irons, the time to do that probably doesn’t exist anymore after having my first child. My order would be strike ability, workabability, forgiveness, and ability to score. 

[hckymeyer]

Question 1 has been covered pretty well, no issues with the scenario as you described it.  He asked, you answered truthfully.

Along those same lines...you asked question #2 so I'm going to give my opinion

Blades shouldn't exist.  There is absolutely zero performance reason to ever play them.  A ton of pro's don't even play them.  A flushed shot feels just as good with any club.  Why would you ever want to make the game harder???

The ONLY reason I can even think of to ever play blades is pure ego.  /rant

Seriously though, I do believe that just about everyone would benefit from playing a more forgiving club, Unless you have dime size wear spots on your clubs like Tiger  you would most likely benefit from more forgiving irons.  I am a strong believer in play what makes you happy though.  So if blades give you more enjoyment on the course then have at it.

[cnosil]

Question 1 seems to have gotten covered pretty well....he asked,  you provided your thoughts and as long as it was part of a conversation then no problems.

As for question 2,  I don't think there is a specific time that a player should switch to blades.  At the end of the day, players should play what they want and if that is blades,  hickory shafted clubs, SGI, traditional lofts, jacked lofts, or whatever then so be it.  Hopefully; but not likely,  the player understands the trade offs between sets of clubs and that they have the ability to hit them reasonably well.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

You could have just explained that he wasn’t making good contact with the mizunos and that you were having better success at that. Saying his irons werent a good fit for him is probably a little out of line for a stranger.

For question #2 there’s no right time to switch to them at all. That’s a personal preference thing for golfers. Whether jts a good move for them or not. Who cares what others play, when they move to them or why. I think people should play whatever gives them the joy of playing or practicing 

[azstu324]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You could have just explained that he wasn’t making good contact with the mizunos and that you were having better success at that. Saying his irons werent a good fit for him is probably a little out of line for a stranger

I guess I forgot to mention that he was constantly either hitting off the hosel or the toe. He was getting frustrated at his inconsistency. So when he started asking questions, it was apparent that he had no idea that his clubs have almost no tolerance for misshits.  So I felt that he deserved an honest explanation. His game wasn't terrible by any means but he definitely could be enjoying it more with different clubs. It was a wakeup call but he was actually grateful for the advice. 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

#1 If you were asked it's fine to give your opinion. 

#2 I firmly believe you should play the clubs that lets you play your best. The ball doesn't care what hits it, your playing partners probably don't care what you have in your bag. All that matters is that the clubs work for you. 

I played game improvement irons into my mid single digits. I did switch to players distance due to a testing opportunity. The clubs have less offset which seemed to help both my set-up and narrow down my direction control. Also being fitted to me, they had a shaft that would help me hit the ball higher. Which was what I needed. The lofts were almost the same between sets so the distances were very similar. So there was a benefit for me to change. And it showed in my game and handicap. 

Would I go to blades? No  They would only hurt my game or I would have to try much harder to get the same result, and this game is hard enough. The sweet spot is the size of a dime on blades and a quarter on most other types. Why not get all the forgiveness you can.

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, azstu324 said:

I guess I forgot to mention that he was constantly either hitting off the hosel or the toe. He was getting frustrated at his inconsistency. So when he started asking questions, it was apparent that he had no idea that his clubs have almost no tolerance for misshits.  So I felt that he deserved an honest explanation. His game wasn't terrible by any means but he definitely could be enjoying it more with different clubs. It was a wakeup call but he was actually grateful for the advice. 

If he’s hitting off the hosel or toe that’s as much a swing issue as it is equipment. You could have easily said getting some lessons will help with improving his swing and consistency in contact. Doesn’t really matter what club one has if hosel and toe come are the miss. There’s a lot of ways one could have addressed his question as well as not answering it at all. I think the less aggressive approach is the better option 

[TR1PTIK]

12 hours ago, cnosil said:

Question 1 seems to have gotten covered pretty well....he asked,  you provided your thoughts and as long as it was part of a conversation then no problems.

As for question 2,  I don't think there is a specific time that a player should switch to blades.  At the end of the day, players should play what they want and if that is blades,  hickory shafted clubs, SGI, traditional lofts, jacked lofts, or whatever then so be it.  Hopefully; but not likely,  the player understands the trade offs between sets of clubs and that they have the ability to hit them reasonably well.  

^^^This^^^

As someone who plays (and has always trended toward) very blade-like clubs, the player has to have an understanding of the performance trade-offs and be willing to manage their expectations accordingly. I will always advocate for golfers to enjoy the game the way they want to (within reason) and if that means playing clubs that are... aspirational, then that's fine with me. Based on what's been shared, it sounds like this guy probably lacked a bit of golf knowledge (understanding) and therefore didn't have the right expectations. 

[Shankster]

I’ve had a similar situation… kid at work, in his early 20’s, in shape, pretty okish swing… I hit it by him by 25+ yards.  He is using his grand fathers old clubs, with Senior or Regilar shafts.  Has a super strong grip, and to make his swing work has the driver open like 30°, he asked what the deal was, so I told him and he got rather irate.

[Kanoito]

If the scenario is how you paint it, you guys have similar personalities, were having a good time, talking a lot, etc... then I probably would have done the same.

Truth hurts, so being disappointed is perfectly normal. Hopefully he noticed that your comment came from a good place. I know I would appreciate it.

I've been on the receiving end when I started playing and bought a brand new set of MP59. But I never got mad, I smiled, told them I was aware of it and thanked them for the heads-up.

[Bobbers]

20 hours ago, azstu324 said:

So this post is actually a 2 part question. It was sparked by the round of golf that I played yesterday. 

I was paired with 1 other single and a father/son couple. All were super solid guys and we had a great round. The other single and I kind of hit it off with similar personalities. That said, he wasn't having a great round and his irons weren't consistent at all. We were playing my favorite little exec so there were a few more par 3 holes than usual. This exec is spread out really well so many of the par 3's are decent lengths of 160-200 yds.

Throughout the round I was constantly getting "what club are you using?", And "how come I didn't hit as far as you?". Finally on about hole 12, I had to break it to the guy. Mizuno MP 30's were just another galaxy away for from where his game was. He had a beautiful set of really well maintained blades but they really were probably the worst choice for a guy like him.. so I told him that. I asked if yesterday was just a particularly bad day, or if that was his usual game. Well it was his usual game. So I asked why he continued to play clubs that were so difficult when there are a lot of options that would be so much better for him.. He said "I just really wanted mizunos", and "but when I hit one pure there's no better feeling". Unfortunately I didn't see him hit one pure the whole day so he was really just chasing a dream IMO .. and when he thought he hit one well, I could still tell it was either fat or thin and he didn't even know what he was looking for. The 1 shot that he actually pured was pulled about 20 yds left. 

When we finished the round, I told him to keep the clubs because they were beautifully kept timeless classics that could one day be a great club for him. I also told him to consider looking for some good GI clubs if he really wanted to enjoy the game, get good with those and then decide if he wanted to move back to the blades. Then I told him that my blade game was about a 3 year, very proactive process in the making and when I started the process, I was quite a bit ahead of where he's at now. Additionally, and for additional perspective, I told him that I probably shouldn't even be playing blades but because I hit the ball equally as well with them than without them, I justified making the switch this year.  

Question 1: was I out of line by telling a guy that I barely knew that he was using the wrong clubs and that if he continued using them that he'd learn to hate the game before he learned to love it? He seemed to be pretty receptive but also seemed kind of bummed at the same time.. but such is life in the world of golf. You don't just go to the top, you have to work VERY hard to get there. 

Question 2: (This one is more of a personal question) When can the transition to MB/CB blades be deemed responsible and justified? I know this question comes with a lot of tabu and personal opinion but I'm curious if there can be a general consensus. I'm still questioning whether or not my game is even worthy.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm not playing any worse than with my previous techy, players distance set. I feel like blades won't prevent me from improving further, and I really like that they force me to stay laser focused and demand an extra level of swing maintenance in order to stay consistent. I don't feel intimidated or out of place in the slightest. If anything, having 2 shots with identical results, I'd easily take the shot made with the traditional blade over the techy, tungsten and polymer filled players distance iron. It's just more mentally gratifying knowing that a lot of work went into making that shot. 

Any feedback on both or either question is always appreciated! 

 

Cheers!

 

My approach in situations like this is NOT to talk about them but in a non ego driven way, to talk about myself.  In response to his questions I'd have said something along the lines of "if it were me I'd think about xxxxxx", or "when I was thinking about blades my two major considerations were xxxx".  It helps get the message sent and, in my experience, reduce any potentially defensive reaction on the part of the recipient.  Overall?  You were trying to do the guy a favor, your intentions were good and he DID ask for your input.  No worries.

[revkev]

I think you have a lot to go on here already but I'm curious about some stuff having to do with question one.  There seemingly was no consistency to his misses and his solid hits were left?  Blades or no could the clubs be miss fits?  Wrong lie, wrong shaft, there could be more than the fact that they were blades working here.  I'm a decidedly anti-blade guy and yet when I first started playing that's what we had so I learned how to hit them well and did so until the Ping Eye 2 came out (which was more forgiving but certainly not the most forgiving iron ever made.)  

 

Clearly the guy was having or does have swing issues but could the miss fit of his irons be a contributing factor.  Could the lack of confidence because they are less forgiving be it?  

 

Hard to say.  

 

Just some additional rambling thoughts that hadn't been mentioned as yet.

[azstu324]

17 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You could have just explained that he wasn’t making good contact with the mizunos and that you were having better success at that

There were still a few details that I didn't include as to not make this overly long. Contact quality was definitely a part of the convo. Being that we had similar personalities and I more or less gave him the "open book" vibe, he was picking my brain nearly the whole round. He asked about how often I practice, play, what I do to practice, warmup before the round, etc. This showed me that he was really intently serious about improving. 99 other times out of 100 I would have just given basic answers but this guy was cool and I really wanted to help him. We talked about lessons, good YouTube instruction, ALWAYS gonna drop the MGS knowledge bomb on folks as this place has helped my game big time! So in the convo, I made sure to tell him that NO club will magically fix a swing, but there are definitely better clubs that are more forgiving on misshits and other clubs like his that just have no forgiveness at all. 

[azstu324]

5 minutes ago, revkev said:

I think you have a lot to go on here already but I'm curious about some stuff having to do with question one.  There seemingly was no consistency to his misses and his solid hits were left?  Blades or no could the clubs be miss fits?  Wrong lie, wrong shaft, there could be more than the fact that they were blades working here.  I'm a decidedly anti-blade guy and yet when I first started playing that's what we had so I learned how to hit them well and did so until the Ping Eye 2 came out (which was more forgiving but certainly not the most forgiving iron ever made.)  

 

Clearly the guy was having or does have swing issues but could the miss fit of his irons be a contributing factor.  Could the lack of confidence because they are less forgiving be it?  

 

Hard to say.  

 

Just some additional rambling thoughts that hadn't been mentioned as yet.

He did say that the clubs were "built" for him by a guy so it's hard to say how much detail went into the build. It was a unique setup where he was playing light weight 85g Aldila graphite shafts in an already smaller and lighter head. He had an arm surgery that he didn't mind showing me the giant scar for . I didn't really get into how he was fit for the clubs but definitely included that for $20 it's worth a loft/lie check at PGATSS and especially with 20 yr old set of soft forged clubs. Stuff like swing weight, grip size, and fitting specs tend to be a little further down the rabbit hole than most care to go so I tried to keep it basic. He was a younger and more fit guy than me and I did tell him that if I were fitting someone like him, I may not have gone so light with the shafts and that there were really good 100+g graphite or steel shaft options that might help him feel the club a bit better. He actually let me take a few swings with an 8 iron and it just felt like a feather so I don't think that much consideration was given to swingweight when the clubs were built. 

As for his swing issues, he didn't have a horrible swing. His misses were pushes and pulls that went straight but just not in the right direction. Or thin and fat shots that went straight but with no distance.  All of his shots were playable. The other 2 guys were more all over the place but didn't really seem to care that their game was a mess.

[chisag]

On 4/3/2022 at 9:18 AM, azstu324 said:

Question 2: (This one is more of a personal question) When can the transition to MB/CB blades be deemed responsible and justified? I know this question comes with a lot of tabu and personal opinion but I'm curious if there can be a general consensus. I'm still questioning whether or not my game is even worthy.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm not playing any worse than with my previous techy, players distance set. I feel like blades won't prevent me from improving further, and I really like that they force me to stay laser focused and demand an extra level of swing maintenance in order to stay consistent. I don't feel intimidated or out of place in the slightest. If anything, having 2 shots with identical results, I'd easily take the shot made with the traditional blade over the techy, tungsten and polymer filled players distance iron. It's just more mentally gratifying knowing that a lot of work went into making that shot. 

Any feedback on both or either question is always appreciated. 

 

... Of course I have to start off saying everyone should play whatever gives them the most enjoyment. I don't believe it, but I am required to say it.   Golf is the only game I know where players actually make a difficult game even more difficult by choosing equipment that does not give them the opportunity to play their best. 

... Payne Stewart wanted to change from his MB's to CB's so Bob Mandrella, one of the very best club designers in the business built some Wilson Forged CB sets for Payne to play. Stewart was one of the best ball strikers to ever play and yet he wanted CB's because he felt his occasional misses would be better than they were with MB's. Bob built quite a few sets for Payne and as much as Payne liked the mid and long irons, he kept putting his own 8-pw MB's in the bag with them. Back when the ball spun off the planet Payne just wasn't getting the flight he wanted with the CB scoring irons. In the end Bob finally came up with the idea of a Progressive set with new 7-3 iron CB's and Paynes old 8-pw MB's. Behind the scenes they both continued to work on CB scoring irons because Payne wanted to give himself the best chance at shooting his lowest scores and winning majors. 

... If one of the best ball strikers ever wanted to play CB's with a high spin ball why would anyone want to play MB's with a ball that wants to go straight? In 40 years of playing and teaching golf I have run across two players that should play MB's. TWO. I did not see either one miss an iron shot all round and both had a wear spot the size of a dime in the center of their face. As hckymeyer said, every club feels good when you hit the center. Admittedly a cast stainless iron my not feel quite as nirvana sweet as a forged carbon steel MB, but a forged carbon steel CB does. And todays multi material irons can too. There is absolutely no difference in feel between my Z Forged MB's and my King MIM irons when I dead center a shot. 

... So for me the answer is easy, play irons that give you the optimum performance when you miss them a little (or a lot). Respectfully if you say your shots or scores are the same with MB's or a more forgiving iron that you have been fit into, which may be a GI with plenty of forgiveness or Players Iron with just enough forgiveness, you are deluding yourself. I have read honest opinions where really good players admit they may lose one or two shots a round playing MB's and that is fair. If I play 5 times a week and lost 1-2 shots a round that is 240-480 shots a year!!! I know one of the labels MB players get is it's all about Ego, but I think Curiosity might be a better label. I think every good player should play MB's at least once in the golfing life just to see what they are like and to understand why they should not be playing them. One of my pet peeves is golfers saying MB's help them focus and imo that is the attitude of a lazy mind. If you want to play your best and take the game seriously, you can focus just as laser sharp with a full set of hybrids as MB's. Just watch the LPGA and tell me Lydia Ko is not focused playing 2 hybrids and 5-pw hollow headed PXG irons? 

... And finally I understand there are reason to play golf other than playing your best. You are outdoors getting exercise and fresh air or you are riding in a cart listening to music and eating bad food with alcohol. I have never been to a casino because the odds are stacked in the house's favor and I don't like giving money away. But I have friends that take $250 and when it is gone they are done for the night. They don't view it as gambling but just a night of social fun, drinking and having some laughs with friends. Some approach golf the same way and nothing wrong with that, and if MB's add to that enjoyment nothing wrong with that either. 

[pakman92]

I try my hardest to keep my mouth shut about other people's games.  (unless i'm playing with friends, than all bets are off).   I know that my game can go downhill at any point.  I don't want to feel stupid about giving some swing/equipment advice and immediately begin to chunk my shots.  

 

[azstu324]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

know one of the labels MB players get is it's all about Ego, but I think Curiosity might be a better label.

This is definitely me. I didn't make the switch just to stroke my own ego or get attention. I'm just at a point in my life where those things aren't important to me.  If anything, the guys that I golf with who are all mid to low single digit hdcps are giving me tons of guff for making the switch. None of them play "blades" so you can probably imagine the wrong kind of attention I'm getting from them when I'm not as good as they are. 

I will admit that I'm intending the switch to be short-lived as I'm playing them as a placeholder set anticipating the release of Maltby's TS4's later this year. But as you mentioned @chisag, I'm playing these 2 sets and actually finding more consistency, am enjoying the game more than ever, and am finding that well-struck or played shots are just as mentally rewarding as physically. When I make a poor shot, I'm quickly reminded to mind my P's and Q's, I own it and make adjustments. I might be an anomaly in the way that I approach the game but it seems like the way that I'm finding the most enjoyment. I can admit that I probably do have a "lazy mind". Sometimes it takes a heavier discipline for someone to be their better self. For years I had some pretty serious ADD struggles and couldn't focus or retain any info. A few years back I made some pretty aggressive changes to my daily disciplines and habits.. changes that were probably excessive at the time.. fast forward to today and I'm working a profession that requires laser sharp focus, extremely efficient multitasking, and retention of many important details. Through some pretty aggressive discipline and changes, I've become the person that I never thought I could be. I know that's a side step down another topic, but it's definitely some insight on my personality and maybe why I'm maybe better off with the clubs I've chosen. 

 

[chisag]

8 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

And if I'm a "lazy thinker" then so be it.

 

... You are not alone as I have heard this mantra for years: "GI irons let me get away with poor swings because I know the forgiveness is there. MB's don't let me get away with bad swings so my concentration is better". My point is concentration is concentration and you certainly can concentrate just as laser sharp with SGI's as MB's. Yet we are human so I understand sometimes we need outside forces to help sharpen our focus and everyone is different. I have watched golfers move their head and their body with their putting strokes, especially with a birdie putt or a much needed par. Nothing could be easier than just keeping still through the stroke and rotating your head after the ball has left the putter face and maintaining your position until the ball stops. Yet the mentally lazy can't seem to accomplish this because they want to see if their putt is going in more than they want to accomplish proper technique. Nobody said the mental side of the game is easy. 

[fixyurdivot]

5 hours ago, pakman92 said:

I try my hardest to keep my mouth shut about other people's games.  (unless i'm playing with friends, than all bets are off).   I know that my game can go downhill at any point.  I don't want to feel stupid about giving some swing/equipment advice and immediately begin to chunk my shots.  

 

Same here.  Unless asked for an opinion or jabbering with someone I know well, I probably wouldn't have told him the MP30's were not for him.  As for question #2, I don't think there is a definitive demarcation when one can/should switch to less forgiving iron designs.  I suppose the simple and best answer, IMHO, is when a competent fitter pulls them from the drawer, suggests you include them in your testing, and the data tells you to bag em' .

[BIG STU]

On 4/3/2022 at 1:34 PM, hckymeyer said:

Question 1 has been covered pretty well, no issues with the scenario as you described it.  He asked, you answered truthfully.

Along those same lines...you asked question #2 so I'm going to give my opinion

Blades shouldn't exist.  There is absolutely zero performance reason to ever play them.  A ton of pro's don't even play them.  A flushed shot feels just as good with any club.  Why would you ever want to make the game harder???

The ONLY reason I can even think of to ever play blades is pure ego.  /rant

Seriously though, I do believe that just about everyone would benefit from playing a more forgiving club, Unless you have dime size wear spots on your clubs like Tiger  you would most likely benefit from more forgiving irons.  I am a strong believer in play what makes you happy though.  So if blades give you more enjoyment on the course then have at it.

No in my case it is not ego. It is because that was what I learned on and it fits my eye and style. And I put the ego away a while back because if one looks at my signature you will see I no longer have the blade long irons in but have a 7 & 9 woods on the top end. Even on the pure vintage side of things I have pulled out the 2 , 3 and 4 irons and have a laminate 6 wood instead. Now I can still hit even a blade 1 iron but not as effectively as I used to so I scaled back on the top end to keep stress off of my back. So not all of us older blade players have a ego it is just what we learned the game with and what fits our eye and mind better

[BIG STU]

On 4/4/2022 at 3:10 PM, chisag said:

 

... You are not alone as I have heard this mantra for years: "GI irons let me get away with poor swings because I know the forgiveness is there. MB's don't let me get away with bad swings so my concentration is better". My point is concentration is concentration and you certainly can concentrate just as laser sharp with SGI's as MB's. Yet we are human so I understand sometimes we need outside forces to help sharpen our focus and everyone is different. I have watched golfers move their head and their body with their putting strokes, especially with a birdie putt or a much needed par. Nothing could be easier than just keeping still through the stroke and rotating your head after the ball has left the putter face and maintaining your position until the ball stops. Yet the mentally lazy can't seem to accomplish this because they want to see if their putt is going in more than they want to accomplish proper technique. Nobody said the mental side of the game is easy. 

One of the best pieces of putting  advice I ever heard came form Annika Sorenstam. Especially on short putts "keep your head down and listen for the ball rattling the cup". 

[BIG STU]

On 4/4/2022 at 1:48 PM, pakman92 said:

I try my hardest to keep my mouth shut about other people's games.  (unless i'm playing with friends, than all bets are off).   I know that my game can go downhill at any point.  I don't want to feel stupid about giving some swing/equipment advice and immediately begin to chunk my shots.  

 

Most on here that have known me for a while and that goes for other golf sites too know my stance.

IMHO there is no one etched in stone proper way to play this game and that goes for all aspects from mental to the equipment one chooses to play. Arnold Pamer has said it and so has Tiger. I do a lot of things in both equipment especially the gaps and in the swing that are not proper in a lot of eyes but they work for ME. I have never pushed my opinions or ways on anyone. If someone askes an honest question I will give them an honest answer and will tell them this may or may not work for you. I will tell people up front I am not a swing guru never have been. My specialty as such is equipment but then again there what works for me may or may not work for you. Trust me I will admit I have at least 3 staff bags full of failed experiments club wise. Keep them around to salvage shafts or to go a different avenue with them. I have no problems at all with someone seeking instruction from a instructor. On that I give a few pieces of advice. One find a person you are comfortable with and practice what they teach you and how they teach you to do it. Do not watch other instruction on TV or in Golf Magazines. I will stress to practice outside the lesson what they teach you.

Just my .02 FWIW

[revkev]

On 4/4/2022 at 3:10 PM, chisag said:

 

... You are not alone as I have heard this mantra for years: "GI irons let me get away with poor swings because I know the forgiveness is there. MB's don't let me get away with bad swings so my concentration is better". My point is concentration is concentration and you certainly can concentrate just as laser sharp with SGI's as MB's. Yet we are human so I understand sometimes we need outside forces to help sharpen our focus and everyone is different. I have watched golfers move their head and their body with their putting strokes, especially with a birdie putt or a much needed par. Nothing could be easier than just keeping still through the stroke and rotating your head after the ball has left the putter face and maintaining your position until the ball stops. Yet the mentally lazy can't seem to accomplish this because they want to see if their putt is going in more than they want to accomplish proper technique. Nobody said the mental side of the game is easy. 

Let's be clear here and I'm sure all of us are - GI's aren't turning poor swings into pin seeking shots - poor swings lead to bad shots with any club out there.  It's the marginal ones were the help comes in.  

 

Correct?

[chisag]

5 hours ago, revkev said:

Let's be clear here and I'm sure all of us are - GI's aren't turning poor swings into pin seeking shots - poor swings lead to bad shots with any club out there.  It's the marginal ones were the help comes in.  

 

Correct?

 

... Yes! Every golfer is different of course but in general you are exactly right Kev. A really bad swing and a really bad shot can't be helped with any equipment. No difference at all between a fat MB and a fat GI. The hosel is the same as well   Of course if you miss thin consistently, something with more weight low in the head will produce a much better "bad shot" than a MB with a thin sole and a high COG. But especially better players that say hit it 1/2" toward the toe or heel (which happens more often than some would admit) can be the difference between a 10 foot birdie putt or a 20 footer up a tier, or worse leave you short sided in the deep rough as opposed to on the fringe. We are talking about a marginal shot with a marginal difference but that difference can mean a stroke or two every round. 

... Adding to your statement I hear MB users say hitting a MB is not any harder than hitting a GI and I would absolutely agree, a good swing and center contact doesn't care what club you are using. It is the marginal miss that makes the GI not any easier to hit but less penal when you miss it marginally. 

[chisag]

5 hours ago, BIG STU said:

One of the best pieces of putting  advice I ever heard came form Annika Sorenstam. Especially on short putts "keep your head down and listen for the ball rattling the cup". 

 

...  Yup I started saying "one se-cond" slowly before allowing myself to rotate my head but maintain my putting stance. After a year or so it became second nature and I no longer had to count. So yes, on short putts I don't get to see it roll in the hole.