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Lag Shot Driver - Why Can I hit it so well and not my Regular driver?


Samsonite
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Alright, so I already posted something like this in the comment section of the "Lag Shot Driver" article from last month, but thought I'd follow it up here with the forum to see if there's a little more discussion to be had. 

So here's the deal.  I have a lag-shot driver (and 7-iron and wedge) that I usually only use as part of a range session/warming up before a round.  But lately I've noticed that I when using the Lag Shot off the tee at the range, I seemingly can't miss - shot after shot are dead straight (sometimes a SLIGHT draw).  They're not BOMBS, obviously, as the heavier weight of the shaft/head combo tend to slow down my swing speed (not CRAZY fast as it is, mind you - about 104 on a good day, typically between 99-101), but I will every day of the week take 240 in the fairway vs. 270 (with roll, naturally) in the very right rough/OB. 

So this past Friday I took the Lag Shot out on the course, and hit every fairway except one (it's an executive course, though, so only 7 driving holes, but still, 6 out of 7 is my best percentage BY FAR).  It felt like I couldn't miss.

I don't have a REAL reason as to why I don't have an issue hitting this thing - maybe it's being able to feel the driver head load so specifically?  Maybe it's the cool blue shaft (kidding)?  

Ultimately, it doesn't matter that much, except to know that were I able to replicate this swing with either of my "real" drivers (a Cleveland HB Turbo from 2013-ish and a Cobra Speedzone from 2020), I'm pretty sure the extra yards from those would be greatly appreciated when playing a non-executive course.

My Cobra, I should point out, was recently "diagnosed" at a putter-fitting where they measured all my clubs (as a cool little gratis thing) with having a 2x Stiff shaft, despite being labeled as a "stiff" (Hazardous Smoke 60g).  I could definitely see this being SOME of the issue - a club that stiff (by my understanding) would be harder for someone with my swing speed to feel the head load, which could be messing big time with my timing.  My Cleveland I have less of an issue with, but only slightly.

Should I be looking for a "softer" shaft, since I seem to have such good results with the Lag Shot?  Should I not be thinking THIS hard about it?  Should I just "game" the Lag Shot and be laughed at? Lol.

Help me, fellow club-nerds, you're my only help.  Other than going and spending more money on a shaft fitting (which I'll probably do anyway, but days off are few and far between here).

Thanks, in advance, and looking forward to your theories/thoughts.

-Swanson

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Driver - :cobra-small: King Speedzone, 9 degrees, HZRDS Smoke 65g / Lag Shot driver, lol
3/5 Wood - Warrior Golf (don't ask)
Utility - :cobra-small: King Utility - 2 Iron
Irons (4-PW) - :taylormade-small:- SIM Max, Nippon Modus Tour 105 Stiff
Wedges (52, 56, 60) - Kirkland Signature 
Putter - :1332069271_TommyArmour: 303 Milled Series - Serrano
Ball - Snell MTB Black/Kirkland Signature 2.0

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I have never hit a Lag Shot club but I find this really interesting so I’ll be following this. I hope you get a lot of interest in this. 

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Ping G425 Max

Callaway Epic Max 5 wood

Cobra F9 Speedback 7/8 wood set at 23.5 degrees

Callaway Epic Max 11 wood

PXG 0311P Gen. 3  6-GW

PXG 0211 5-GW

PXG 0211 sand wedge bent to 53 degrees

Maltby M Series+ 54 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 Eye2 58 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 60 degree

Evnroll ER2

Ping Sigma 2 Anser

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Could be that the way you load the club with your swing just works better with a whippy shaft.  Our bodies respond to different tools.  If a tool is too heavy/light, we can compensate.  Sometimes those compensations are beneficial, other times detrimental.  Often when a shaft is too heavy, people try to do something with it to get the ball in the air.  Sometimes this adds more spin, and reduces distance.  It would seem that with a super whippy shaft, you're forced to sequence and let the energy out vs feeling like you have to muscle it through. 

Have you filmed yourself while swinging both the lag shot and your gamers?  How does your body feel (tension) with each? 

I'd experiment with different flex shafts to see if you can't find something that feels as close as possible and allows you to swing the same as you do with the lag shot... or just play the lag shot in real rounds of golf. 

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Instagram:  @tony_rosselli_

:SuperSpeed:Training

Pre training max driver speed: 124mph

Current: 130mph

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Driver: :ping-small:G400 LST 8.5* with HZRDUS SMOKE 6.5 70g 

Woods: :taylormade-small: 2007 Burner TP 3 wood and 5 wood

Irons:  :srixon-small: Z765 4-PW (1 degree flat) with KBS $-130 shafts

Wedges:  :vokey-small: SM7 50/12/F, 54/10/S and 58/12/D

Putter: 681811256_Odysseylogo.png.499799aea6663befa411c8db1d859702.png Stroke Lab Ten S 33"

Ball:  :titelist-small: ProV1

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I second everything @GolfSpy_CS wrote. I'll also add this (as a question): does the Lag Shot driver have a shorter shaft than your normal drivers? It may be (and I can sympathize with this) that with the shorter shaft, you're finding the center of the face more, whereas with your normal drivers you're getting dispersion from hitting a lot of different parts of the face.

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:titelist-small: TS3
:callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero 15°, Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI 70 S
:cobra-small: F6 5-6W, 18.5°, Fujikura Motore 6.3
:callaway-small: XR Pro 20°, Project X 75 Black HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: CBX Iron-Wood 22°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0 85g
:Sub70: 699 Pro, Modus3 105, 6–PW
:Sub70: Forged Black 50°, 54°, and 58°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0
:taylormade-small: TP5x

Full WITB with pictures

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22 minutes ago, GolfSpy_CS said:

Could be that the way you load the club with your swing just works better with a whippy shaft.  Our bodies respond to different tools.  If a tool is too heavy/light, we can compensate.  Sometimes those compensations are beneficial, other times detrimental.  Often when a shaft is too heavy, people try to do something with it to get the ball in the air.  Sometimes this adds more spin, and reduces distance.  It would seem that with a super whippy shaft, you're forced to sequence and let the energy out vs feeling like you have to muscle it through. 

Have you filmed yourself while swinging both the lag shot and your gamers?  How does your body feel (tension) with each? 

I'd experiment with different flex shafts to see if you can't find something that feels as close as possible and allows you to swing the same as you do with the lag shot... or just play the lag shot in real rounds of golf. 

I have this with my iron shafts .. the ones are whippy feeling .. but my others seem stiffer and I like the whippy feeling. 

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:cobra-small: Speedzone Driver Tensei AV Blue or  :ping-small: G400 SFT 10. KBS TD 50 Category 3 shaft 

:cobra-small: King Speedzone Black Yellow Fairway 3 wood Tensei AV Blue 65 

:cobra-small: F9 SpeedBack Black Grey Fairway 5 Wood   :Fuji: ATMOS Tour Spec Blue 7 shaft

:titelist-small: T300 4i-GW - Tensei AV Blue AM2 Regular Flex  or :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Hot Metal 5 - GW Project X Lz 4.5 Regular Flex Graphite 

:ping-small:   Glide 2.0 SS Wedges 54 & 58 

:taylormade-small: TP Red White Ardmore Putter - BGT Stability Tour Black shaft 

:918457628_PrecisionPro:Precision Pro NX7 range finder 

:cobra-small: Ultralight Cart Bag 

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3 hours ago, GolfSpy_CS said:

Could be that the way you load the club with your swing just works better with a whippy shaft.  Our bodies respond to different tools.  If a tool is too heavy/light, we can compensate.  Sometimes those compensations are beneficial, other times detrimental.  Often when a shaft is too heavy, people try to do something with it to get the ball in the air.  Sometimes this adds more spin, and reduces distance.  It would seem that with a super whippy shaft, you're forced to sequence and let the energy out vs feeling like you have to muscle it through. 

Have you filmed yourself while swinging both the lag shot and your gamers?  How does your body feel (tension) with each? 

I'd experiment with different flex shafts to see if you can't find something that feels as close as possible and allows you to swing the same as you do with the lag shot... or just play the lag shot in real rounds of golf. 

Yeah, it's a conundrum.  I did, actually, play with it on-course the last two times out.  The first time, I hit 5 of 6 fairways (executive course, so not a huge amount of opportunities, but 5 of 6 is WAY beyond my normal percentage).  This past time, at a full-sized course, I played it as well, and hit probably 60% of fairways (a couple I blocked right, but still better misses than my normal misses), but even those, the contact was SOLID.

I'm heading to a Club Champion tomorrow (mostly to see if I can swing the LAB putters to see how I like them, but...) to see if I can get someone there to weigh in before making any other decisions, but I would say (just based purely on how it FEELS when I'm swinging) that I can genuinely feel when the head is loaded with this thing, and it's almost automatic.  With my Cobra (and with my previous driver, a Cleveland HB from early 2010s), it feels like a lot of guesswork as to where the head is.  

I'll definitely try to get some video - great idea and I kind of can't believe I haven't done that yet.  Lol. I've been so impressed that I can actually hit it well, it's got me in a constant brain-fog.  

-Swanson

  • Like 1

Driver - :cobra-small: King Speedzone, 9 degrees, HZRDS Smoke 65g / Lag Shot driver, lol
3/5 Wood - Warrior Golf (don't ask)
Utility - :cobra-small: King Utility - 2 Iron
Irons (4-PW) - :taylormade-small:- SIM Max, Nippon Modus Tour 105 Stiff
Wedges (52, 56, 60) - Kirkland Signature 
Putter - :1332069271_TommyArmour: 303 Milled Series - Serrano
Ball - Snell MTB Black/Kirkland Signature 2.0

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3 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

I second everything @GolfSpy_CS wrote. I'll also add this (as a question): does the Lag Shot driver have a shorter shaft than your normal drivers? It may be (and I can sympathize with this) that with the shorter shaft, you're finding the center of the face more, whereas with your normal drivers you're getting dispersion from hitting a lot of different parts of the face.

I just went to the garage to compare, but they're exactly the same (whatever the standard Cobra Speedzone is, so I'm guessing 45, maybe 45.5").  I have no problem at all experimenting with a shorter shaft if it means a few less yards but actually playable and consistent.  This past round I just kept muttering to myself about how much easier it is to find your ball when it's in the fairway. 

Now if I could only learn to putt 😉

-Swanson

  • Like 1

Driver - :cobra-small: King Speedzone, 9 degrees, HZRDS Smoke 65g / Lag Shot driver, lol
3/5 Wood - Warrior Golf (don't ask)
Utility - :cobra-small: King Utility - 2 Iron
Irons (4-PW) - :taylormade-small:- SIM Max, Nippon Modus Tour 105 Stiff
Wedges (52, 56, 60) - Kirkland Signature 
Putter - :1332069271_TommyArmour: 303 Milled Series - Serrano
Ball - Snell MTB Black/Kirkland Signature 2.0

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3 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

I second everything @GolfSpy_CS wrote. I'll also add this (as a question): does the Lag Shot driver have a shorter shaft than your normal drivers? It may be (and I can sympathize with this) that with the shorter shaft, you're finding the center of the face more, whereas with your normal drivers you're getting dispersion from hitting a lot of different parts of the face.

A bit of foot spray on both heads can confirm this. 

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Cobra King F-9  5 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
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:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Snell MTB-X  And Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Tester :SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

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2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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21 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

A bit of foot spray on both heads can confirm this. 

Sadly, I don't even need the footspray - lol. I can tell you FOR SURE that the Cobra's "middle of the face" is nearly clean. Lots low, a few high, but all over except the middle.  The Lagshot is almost all middle/middle-high. It's crazy.

Also, for what it's worth, I just heard back from Club Champion and they flat-out told me not to come in, as "we're not a retail store, you can't just try different clubs," so I guess I'll either have to bite the bullet and go for a driver fitting (which, let's be honest, at this point would be worth it), but as I was hoping to try the mezz.1 in person, I'm pretty annoyed.  

Oh well. 🙂

-Swanson

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Driver - :cobra-small: King Speedzone, 9 degrees, HZRDS Smoke 65g / Lag Shot driver, lol
3/5 Wood - Warrior Golf (don't ask)
Utility - :cobra-small: King Utility - 2 Iron
Irons (4-PW) - :taylormade-small:- SIM Max, Nippon Modus Tour 105 Stiff
Wedges (52, 56, 60) - Kirkland Signature 
Putter - :1332069271_TommyArmour: 303 Milled Series - Serrano
Ball - Snell MTB Black/Kirkland Signature 2.0

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I discovered what it was like to use a heavier swing weight and shorter driver back after the Callaway FT-9 Tour came out. I don't know what the swing weight was but the head felt heavy. I think the club was 44" or 44.5" inches long and all I can say is that I always felt confident with that club until the head broke :(. I currently use a Cobra Fly-Z+ that I like and generally strike well but I still don't have the confidence I had with that FT-9 Tour. I think club length is something that should be addressed more often in fittings. The industry seems pretty dead set on the 45.5" to 46" driver but I think most people would have better real world results with drivers that are 45" or shorter. I know a good fitting can go a long way but shortening a club by an inch represents a lot of physical control that is difficult to compensate for with even the best fitting shaft.

I personally have the Lag Shot 7-iron and should sell it as I thought it was detrimental to my game. I like the concept but it just wasn't for me. If anyone wants it, let me know. If I replace it with anything, it will be an Orange Whip or something similar.

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Alright, so here's two swings each: Cobra Speedzone (Hzrds smoke stiff) vs Lagshot. I personally don't see a ton different, and purposely tried to set up each time there same way. I swung the Lagshot first and hit two solid shots (one a tad high on the face and one dead center that I pulled slightly), followed immediately by the Cobra - both off the heel - one dead left and the other a low fade. 

The next time I go out I'll try and grab some in slow motion to more clearly be able to see impact. 

Curious if seeing video makes something clearer to you all. 

 

 

 

Driver - :cobra-small: King Speedzone, 9 degrees, HZRDS Smoke 65g / Lag Shot driver, lol
3/5 Wood - Warrior Golf (don't ask)
Utility - :cobra-small: King Utility - 2 Iron
Irons (4-PW) - :taylormade-small:- SIM Max, Nippon Modus Tour 105 Stiff
Wedges (52, 56, 60) - Kirkland Signature 
Putter - :1332069271_TommyArmour: 303 Milled Series - Serrano
Ball - Snell MTB Black/Kirkland Signature 2.0

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My suspicion is that it's a swing weight issue. I've only swung a Lag Shot driver a couple times, but from what I recall it's a relatively high swing weight compared to most off the rack drivers. Stock for the Cleveland Launcher is D3 and the SpeedZone is anywhere from D1-D3. So, could be that in swing weight terms, Lag Shot > Launcher > SZ, which coincidentally happens to be the same order you indicate you hit best-to-worst. Could be worth spending a few bucks on some lead tape to add a little head weight to the Cobra and see if it helps.

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Cobra King LTDx 9*, Mitsubishi Diamana TB 60S

Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220 15*, Mitsubishi Diamana TB 70S

Titleist TS2 18*, Mitsubishi Diamana TB 80S

Mizuno Pro Fli-Hi 4i, Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 80 6.0

Srixon ZX5 5-PW, N.S. Pro Modus3 105S

Ping Glide 3.0 48* SS, 54* SS, 58* SS; KDS Hi-Rev 2.0

SIK DW | C-Series

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On 5/6/2022 at 5:05 PM, JimmyShanks415 said:

My suspicion is that it's a swing weight issue. I've only swung a Lag Shot driver a couple times, but from what I recall it's a relatively high swing weight compared to most off the rack drivers. Stock for the Cleveland Launcher is D3 and the SpeedZone is anywhere from D1-D3. So, could be that in swing weight terms, Lag Shot > Launcher > SZ, which coincidentally happens to be the same order you indicate you hit best-to-worst. Could be worth spending a few bucks on some lead tape to add a little head weight to the Cobra and see if it helps.

Great thought - lead tape strips should be here tomorrow. Super curious to see if a little extra weight makes it a little easier to feel the head (that's what she said. I'll be here all week). 

Any suggestions on how much to add? From what I can see, each strip (I ordered) is two grams - it'll probably just be a lot of trial and error. 

Thanks for the suggestion!

Driver - :cobra-small: King Speedzone, 9 degrees, HZRDS Smoke 65g / Lag Shot driver, lol
3/5 Wood - Warrior Golf (don't ask)
Utility - :cobra-small: King Utility - 2 Iron
Irons (4-PW) - :taylormade-small:- SIM Max, Nippon Modus Tour 105 Stiff
Wedges (52, 56, 60) - Kirkland Signature 
Putter - :1332069271_TommyArmour: 303 Milled Series - Serrano
Ball - Snell MTB Black/Kirkland Signature 2.0

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22 hours ago, Samsonite said:

Great thought - lead tape strips should be here tomorrow. Super curious to see if a little extra weight makes it a little easier to feel the head (that's what she said. I'll be here all week). 

Any suggestions on how much to add? From what I can see, each strip (I ordered) is two grams - it'll probably just be a lot of trial and error. 

Thanks for the suggestion!

Every 2 grams should add 1 point of swing weight. I'd start with one or two strips and see what happens from there. Curious to hear how it goes. Worst case, I'm hoping for some nice placebo effect for you.

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Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220 15*, Mitsubishi Diamana TB 70S

Titleist TS2 18*, Mitsubishi Diamana TB 80S

Mizuno Pro Fli-Hi 4i, Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 80 6.0

Srixon ZX5 5-PW, N.S. Pro Modus3 105S

Ping Glide 3.0 48* SS, 54* SS, 58* SS; KDS Hi-Rev 2.0

SIK DW | C-Series

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19 minutes ago, JimmyShanks415 said:

Every 2 grams should add 1 point of swing weight. I'd start with one or two strips and see what happens from there. Curious to hear how it goes. Worst case, I'm hoping for some nice placebo effect for you.

Mmmm... Placebos are so delicious

Driver - :cobra-small: King Speedzone, 9 degrees, HZRDS Smoke 65g / Lag Shot driver, lol
3/5 Wood - Warrior Golf (don't ask)
Utility - :cobra-small: King Utility - 2 Iron
Irons (4-PW) - :taylormade-small:- SIM Max, Nippon Modus Tour 105 Stiff
Wedges (52, 56, 60) - Kirkland Signature 
Putter - :1332069271_TommyArmour: 303 Milled Series - Serrano
Ball - Snell MTB Black/Kirkland Signature 2.0

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So quick follow-up from today's round. Played an executive course (par 61) and had my best round (not even close to my previous best, too), shot a 68. 

Added four grams of tape (two pieces) to the heel-side (my miss tends to be right, so it felt like a good starting point), and then hit an absolute BOMB (for me) on the first tee. One heel strike cost me a shot later on, but then found the middle of the face (and the fairway) 3 more drives (one miss bad to the right, but that was purely letting the head turn in my hands - that was all me). 

Overall, a GREAT result first time out. Really felt like I could actually feel the head at the top of my backswing, which was the whole point. 

I'll keep you updated if anything changes, or as things progress. 

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Driver - :cobra-small: King Speedzone, 9 degrees, HZRDS Smoke 65g / Lag Shot driver, lol
3/5 Wood - Warrior Golf (don't ask)
Utility - :cobra-small: King Utility - 2 Iron
Irons (4-PW) - :taylormade-small:- SIM Max, Nippon Modus Tour 105 Stiff
Wedges (52, 56, 60) - Kirkland Signature 
Putter - :1332069271_TommyArmour: 303 Milled Series - Serrano
Ball - Snell MTB Black/Kirkland Signature 2.0

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