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Real deal vs made for


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This topic comes up periodically when new drivers are released or someone is in the market for shaft or driver.

Some has e same names and sometimes same paint scheme for both the real deal and made for. Fujikura ventus currently is the best example. The PX T100 and T800 was another, as was the PX Im10 shafts as there was a Callaway made for and a real deal aftermarket version.

Almost every PX shaft you find right now outside of the RDX red in TM woods is real deal. If you go to Will Peoples page, Dallas golf company ir fairway jockey the RDX Blue and Black and several others are $300+, but many of them are offered at no upcharge in almost every club brand. Like the hzrdus yellow and black that were confirmed by PX they are the real deal and same as Will and the others offer.

Same with a lot of Mitsubishi and Fujikura which are typically your other stock offerings in clubs. Fujikura one ups most brands as they also list the made for shafts on their page.

A recent debate here on MGS was over the Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI being a no upcharge offering from Callaway despite it being a true aftermarket shaft upon initial release.

Here is the MGS article on the Mavrik release and the Rogue White being real deal offered as stock in the driver

Typically, when you see a $350 shaft in a $500 driver it’s a red flag. According to Callaway, it’s not a made for shaft, and Aldila confirms the shaft is not exclusive to Callaway. It’s available in the aftermarket, one was in play at the Sony last week (Aldila hopes it will get more tour play), and there’s no reason why it couldn’t find its way into other OEM lineups.

https://mygolfspy.com/2020-callaway-mavrik-driver-review/

And as MGS stated there’s no reason why it couldn’t find its way into other OEM lineups that has happened with Ping offering the 70G version as no upcharge and the 60 and 80 gram versions as $210 upcharge.  Srixon offers the 60g version only as no upcharge but doesn’t offer 70 or 80.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Since it has been a while since I've been on the retail side of golf, what is the mark up on shafts? 

This I think is an important part of the equation. Yes, the retail may be $300, but if the mark up and true cost is say $120 that makes more sense. Of course OEM's like Callaway and the likes will get larger bulk discounts as you've mentioned before. 

However knowing or having an idea of those costs makes more sense in my head. Much like buying a plane ticket for me, if I was to buy individual legs (Zurich - Toronto, Toronto - Halifax, Halifax - Syndey) It would cost a lot more than buying it as one ticket. 

Also helps look at the price of the driver at $500 or whatever and knowing that 60% of the cost isn't just the shaft. Again buying a building a driver from scratch or as individual parts (Shaft, Grip, Ferrel, Head and Adaptor) is going to be more expensive than buying it as a package deal. 

So yeah 100% makes sense that we see more true shafts in drivers and other products as the golfing world gets a little bit more knowledgeable and aware of "made for" options that have come in the past. I do think it is less common now? I could be very wrong with that, but it is my perception of it. 

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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16 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

This I think is an important part of the equation. Yes, the retail may be $300, but if the mark up and true cost is say $120 that makes more sense. Of course OEM's like Callaway and the likes will get larger bulk discounts as you've mentioned before. 

I don’t know the markup but we know that club manufacturers aren’t paying $300+ per shaft and when they are probably ordering in the tens of thousands of shafts the price is going to be low. I recall mgs talking about costs and it’s much lower than what the retail price is. The individual club builders aren’t going to pay the same price as a club manufacturer will. They have to to make money plus pay the “middle man” so they are going to be charging the true aftermarket price.

 

23 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

So yeah 100% makes sense that we see more true shafts in drivers and other products as the golfing world gets a little bit more knowledgeable and aware of "made for" options that have come in the past. I do think it is less common now? I could be very wrong with that, but it is my perception of it. 

Yeah the made for vs real deal issue from days past of going away. There’s still made for but that’s where club companies are trying to take advantage of a hot shaft but don’t want it to be an upcharge. So I’m comes t800, im10, ventus that look like what’s on tv but isn’t. 
 

Then you get some names that are close that we see with things like the atmos shaft line but they change the name a bit and paint scheme. 

Unfortunately like many things in golf the old thoughts, concepts and so on die a long slow death.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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A question to ponder.

123 shaft company produces a shaft for ABC golf company and charges them $25 per shaft.  They also list the same shaft on their website for $250 per shaft for all of us to buy at retail.  Does this make it made for, or real deal?

To me, it's real deal because I can purchase it from the shaft company should it be a good fit for me.  Even if it was exclusive to the manufacturer and I couldn't buy it at retail it's still real.  

The scenario where I feel like we're being deceived is in those examples you laid out of the T800 and more recently the non-velocore "Ventus" line.  I don't love the fact that TM has RDX Red, but at least it is visually different and not being labeled as something it is not.  It's still a "real" RDX Red, it's not pretending to be something else.  It's not the same as the non-velocore Ventus business which looked like a Ventus Blue, but is not.  

The whole $350 shaft in a $500 driver of course isn't true even if it IS the same shaft.  the OEM is never going to pay what we would at retail.

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:edel-golf-1: SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | :taylormade-small: MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | :CaddyTek: CaddyLite EZ v8

 

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46 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

123 shaft company produces a shaft for ABC golf company and charges them $25 per shaft.  They also list the same shaft on their website for $250 per shaft for all of us to buy at retail.  Does this make it made for, or real deal?

To me, it's real deal because I can purchase it from the shaft company should it be a good fit for me.  Even if it was exclusive to the manufacturer and I couldn't buy it at retail it's still real.  

This is an interesting question and thought. The Callaway im10 iirc wasn’t initially in the PX page but then after sometime it was listed there. I don’t know if the powers to be who frequent the forums saw the real deal vs made for debate on the shaft because of the other im10 release so they posted it or if it was just something they decided to add to give more info on the shaft. But I’m general I would agree if it’s available to purchase directly from the shaft company or thru a club fitter it would be real deal.

 

51 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

The scenario where I feel like we're being deceived is in those examples you laid out of the T800 and more recently the non-velocore "Ventus" line.  I don't love the fact that TM has RDX Red, but at least it is visually different and not being labeled as something it is not.  It's still a "real" RDX Red, it's not pretending to be something else.  It's not the same as the non-velocore Ventus business which looked like a Ventus Blue, but is not.  

The TM and RDX red is an interesting one because in the FW they have the real deal version and then the 75 FW which is a made for fairway shaft only. I have only seen the pics on TM site of both and other than the 75g in the label on the shaft I can’t find a difference between the two. Also interesting TM only offers the 60g version of the shaft for both driver and fairway.

Its a topic that for those who may have some knowledge could be confused by it all and even those who are more up to speed on stuff get confused.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

The whole $350 shaft in a $500 driver of course isn't true even if it IS the same shaft.  the OEM is never going to pay what we would at retail

This is the big point I see. Guys need to stop getting caught up on those 2 numbers. Yes it is a $300 shaft in the aftermarket and yea it is a $500 driver but that isn’t the OEM’s cost. 
 

I look at it as if it costs the oem $100 per shaft and $100 per head then they make $300 per driver. Obviously those numbers aren’t close to exact but they serve the purpose. 
 

This subject will no doubt never go away and I can’t wait to follow along. Should be fun to read the replies but I’ll get this out of the way now.

Just because somebody doesn't share your views on this subject, it does not mean they are lying to the community or necessarily even wrong!

 

 

 

What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag

Driver:    :cobra-small: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45”

Fairway: :srixon-small: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5”

 :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Driving Iron: :ping-small: Rapture 2-Iron 

Irons: :edel-golf-1: SMS Pros 4-PW with Steelfiber I95s 

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50* T grind with Steelfiber i110s

               :ping-small: Glide 4.0 46* zz wedge shaft

               :ping-small: Glide 4.0 E grind 54* zz wedge shaft

Putters: :L.A.B.: Mezz.1 34” 69* lie

              :EVNROLL: EV5.1 black 33.5” 69* lie

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56 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This is an interesting question and thought. The Callaway im10 iirc wasn’t initially in the PX page but then after sometime it was listed there. I don’t know if the powers to be who frequent the forums saw the real deal vs made for debate on the shaft because of the other im10 release so they posted it or if it was just something they decided to add to give more info on the shaft. But I’m general I would agree if it’s available to purchase directly from the shaft company or thru a club fitter it would be real deal.

 

The TM and RDX red is an interesting one because in the FW they have the real deal version and then the 75 FW which is a made for fairway shaft only. I have only seen the pics on TM site of both and other than the 75g in the label on the shaft I can’t find a difference between the two. Also interesting TM only offers the 60g version of the shaft for both driver and fairway.

Its a topic that for those who may have some knowledge could be confused by it all and even those who are more up to speed on stuff get confused.

Yeah the iM10 was another one that seemed sort of shady when it was launched.... I think there was like a mid-launch (which was offered in the Cally lineup last year) and low version of them that was only aftermarket?  It smelt like T800 vs T1100 to me.  I forgot about that one.  But as you said I'm not sure if there was just limited info out at release or if they got wind of a lot of questions and added info to their site.  

The "FW" label seems to be the next path of offering a similar looking shaft that is different in the FW world.  I think there's a Ventus "FW" too.  I'm curious to see how that differs from the non-velocore driver shaft, but I suspect it's a third variation of the blue looking ventus.  The weight labels seem to be another area where they can get shady.  75 in your example above.  There's no PX RDX red 75 on their site, so that looks shady, even if the profile and materials are the same. 

 

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:edel-golf-1: SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | :taylormade-small: MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | :CaddyTek: CaddyLite EZ v8

 

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33 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

This is the big point I see. Guys need to stop getting caught up on those 2 numbers. Yes it is a $300 shaft in the aftermarket and yea it is a $500 driver but that isn’t the OEM’s cost. 
 

I look at it as if it costs the oem $100 per shaft and $100 per head then they make $300 per driver. Obviously those numbers aren’t close to exact but they serve the purpose. 
 

This subject will no doubt never go away and I can’t wait to follow along. Should be fun to read the replies but I’ll get this out of the way now.

Just because somebody doesn't share your views on this subject, it does not mean they are lying to the community or necessarily even wrong!

Add to it the natural feeling that if it costs more it must be better and you can feel like you're missing out by having a "stock" offering.

I'm no stranger to that.  I tried and played with a Ventus in my driver for most of a season but found the less expensive Motore X f3 to be a better fit for my swing.  Both are high quality shafts, at different price points, and luckily for me the less expensive one fit me better.  I also think the Tensei AV White being offered from Callaway and Cobra this year would be good fits as stock options if I upgraded this year and I might not even need to venture past those.   

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:edel-golf-1: SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | :taylormade-small: MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | :CaddyTek: CaddyLite EZ v8

 

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18 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

The "FW" label seems to be the next path of offering a similar looking shaft that is different in the FW world.  I think there's a Ventus "FW" too.  I'm curious to see how that differs from the non-velocore driver shaft, but I suspect it's a third variation of the blue looking ventus.  The weight labels seem to be another area where they can get shady.  75 in your example above.  There's no PX RDX red 75 on their site, so that looks shady, even if the profile and materials are the same.

I haven’t looked into ventus too much this year other than to notice that Callaway jumped on the made for train and got the blue and TM only has red, but now I’m intrigued to go checkout if there is a fw version.

I don’t know if im ready to call the 75fw and the px site shady her, but it is something that can cause confusion especially if one is looking at tm site and trying to order a rdx red for their fairway wood. I wish manufacturers would do what Fuji has done and put a section that lists their made for shafts and what manufacturers they are for.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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13 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

Add to it the natural feeling that if it costs more it must be better and you can feel like you're missing out by having a "stock" offering.

I'm no stranger to that.  I tried and played with a Ventus in my driver for most of a season but found the less expensive Motore X f3 to be a better fit for my swing.  Both are high quality shafts, at different price points, and luckily for me the less expensive one fit me better.  I also think the Tensei AV White being offered from Callaway and Cobra this year would be good fits as stock options if I upgraded this year and I might not even need to venture past those.   

The tensei white is a good shaft from those I’ve talked too. Titleist has it as well.

The feel is so critical with a club and like you said cost doesn’t mean it’s better for people. I know Rev and a few others did fittings over the last several months and into summer last year and the tm version of ventus was better fit for them than the aftermarket version

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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39 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

I tried and played with a Ventus in my driver for most of a season but found the less expensive Motore X f3 to be a better fit for my swing.

**Cough** AutoFlex vs. an $89, brand new, Motore X F1. Thank you Cobra for offering it as the stock shaft. Even came with a brand new Arccos sensor. 😀

Unofficial WHS Handicap: 7.5 / Anti-Cap: 13.0 (Last Updated Feb. 19, 2024)

Driver: callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°, -1/N), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post
3 Wood: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X
20° Hybrid: PXG_Logo.png.8401024d1fb8aec46f0e790c1aa5b80c.png PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X
4 Utility: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff
5-PW:
logo-Ben-Hogan-large.png.98d743ae5487285c6406a1e30a0a63b5.png Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting
50°, 54°, 58°:
231036130_Edel_Golf_Logo_v2_grandecopy.png.13cc76b963f8dd59f06d04b1e8df2827.png Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread
Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
Grips: 
stargrip.png.4285948f41f1409613266e7803f0bbaa.png Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up
Ball: :Snell:Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow

Tracked By: shotscope.png.4a7089f2bddff325285b1266a61dda03.png  Shot Scope H4
Bag: :1590477705_SunMountain: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync
Riding On: 
image.png.1db52ce91db040317a9ac580f1df8de8.pngBag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread

WITB? | 2022 Reviewer Edel SMS Wedges | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver

 

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24 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The tensei white is a good shaft from those I’ve talked too. Titleist has it as well.

The feel is so critical with a club and like you said cost doesn’t mean it’s better for people. I know Rev and a few others did fittings over the last several months and into summer last year and the tm version of ventus was better fit for them than the aftermarket version

 

I remember the TXG boys did a compare between the two, and even they said it's not like the non-Velocore ventus is a bad shaft, it likely fits a large share of the market considering its a stock offering.  They got good performance out of it too.  It's just a shame they wanted it to look exactly like a Ventus Blue Velocore.

34 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I haven’t looked into ventus too much this year other than to notice that Callaway jumped on the made for train and got the blue and TM only has red, but now I’m intrigued to go checkout if there is a fw version.

I don’t know if im ready to call the 75fw and the px site shady her, but it is something that can cause confusion especially if one is looking at tm site and trying to order a rdx red for their fairway wood. I wish manufacturers would do what Fuji has done and put a section that lists their made for shafts and what manufacturers they are for.

There's some on eBay now, searching "Fujikura Ventus BLUE FW 6S Stiff 5wood 5w Shaft- TaylorMade Grip" should pull it up.  I don't see it under the OEM stock section on fuji's site.

2 minutes ago, edingc said:

**Cough** AutoFlex vs. an $89, brand new, Motore X F1. Thank you Cobra for offering it as the stock shaft. Even came with a brand new Arccos sensor. 😀

😂😂😂  That F1 6X is an even easier find than the F3 6X!  I had to do a little searching and waiting, but there were some F3's floating around but mostly not X flex.  

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:edel-golf-1: SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | :taylormade-small: MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | :CaddyTek: CaddyLite EZ v8

 

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49 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

I remember the TXG boys did a compare between the two, and even they said it's not like the non-Velocore ventus is a bad shaft, it likely fits a large share of the market considering its a stock offering.  They got good performance out of it too.  It's just a shame they wanted it to look exactly like a Ventus Blue Velocore.

Which is the goal for both the shaft and club manufacturers. They both know the large majority of golfers don’t get fit so have something for Joe golfer who buys off the rack based on name recognition, loft they always use and flex they always use or based on notion of slow and/or old use R flex.

To an extent I agree but from TM and now Callaway you don’t get the same attention by calling it ventus and having a different color especially with the popularity it has on mens and womens tours. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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