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Iron Shaft Length and Swing Weight


mikeanthony
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Question, my iron specs are 1” over standard …

With that said, and all things being equal (same iron head, grip and iron shaft weight) am I correct in thinking that a standard length 7i will feel slightly heavier - swing weight wise - than a 7i that is 1” over standard? 

Not a club fitter and afraid I’m asking a question that has an obvious answer. 

And if that is the case, what club fitting method is used to offset the lower swing weight of the 1” over standard iron … besides placing lead tape on the iron heads. 

Driver: :ping-small: G410 SFT 10.5*

3W: :cobra-small:  Speedzone 14.5*

Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS2 19* & 21*

Irons: :ping-small:  G425 (5-PW) 

Wedges: :ping-small:  Glide 3.0 50* :titelist-small: Vokey SM7 54* & 58*

Putter: :ping-small:  Heppler Anser 2

Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1 & :Snell: MTB-Black

 

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The longer the shaft given a constant head weight, the higher the swingweight will be.  So your one inch longer club, unless it has been counterweighted in some fashion, is going to feel "heavier", i.e. have a higher swingweight, than a standard length iron.

The converse also applies, shorter the shaft the lighter it'll feel.  Clubs made typically for female golfers are often shorter than the comparable club for a male and they have a lighter swingweight simply due to being shorter.

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PXG 0211  12*  Paderson Kinetixx A flex

PXG 0211 5 and 7 Woods  Paderson Kinetixx A Flex

PXG 0211 5 and 5 Hybrids  MMT A Flex

Cobra 7 Hybrid  A Flex

PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

Cleveland CBX 54/12

Cobra Vintage Nova 33"

 

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Posted (edited)

Got it. Thank you! @Bobbers

So then it must be when clubs get into the scoring irons, such as the 9i and on down, it’s essentially the iron heads that are getting heavier. As the spec sheets on OEM sites for the irons are usually 1 swing weight heavier as the clubs get into the scoring irons.

Edited by mikeanthony

Driver: :ping-small: G410 SFT 10.5*

3W: :cobra-small:  Speedzone 14.5*

Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS2 19* & 21*

Irons: :ping-small:  G425 (5-PW) 

Wedges: :ping-small:  Glide 3.0 50* :titelist-small: Vokey SM7 54* & 58*

Putter: :ping-small:  Heppler Anser 2

Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1 & :Snell: MTB-Black

 

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7 minutes ago, mikeanthony said:

Got it. Thank you! @Bobbers

So then it must be when clubs get into the scoring irons, such as the 9i and on down, it’s essentially the iron heads that are getting heavier. As the spec sheets on OEM sites for the irons are usually 1 swing weight heavier as the clubs get into the scoring irons.

While I'm reluctant to make a blanket statement, once the clubs like the 9 iron and wedges are listed at a standard length of build, say 35 1/2 inches, the swing weight will in fact increase because the club heads typically do weigh more as you move down from the 9 through the wedges.

As to your earlier question, if you grab  your 9 iron six inches above the club head it'll feel like it weighs next to  nothing.  Move the club head out to 18 inches from the club head; same club head now feels much heavier.  Now grab it by the grip and hold it straight out in front of you.  You'll see how the distance from where you're holding the club to the club head itself influences the perceived, or swing weight of the club.

PXG 0211  12*  Paderson Kinetixx A flex

PXG 0211 5 and 7 Woods  Paderson Kinetixx A Flex

PXG 0211 5 and 5 Hybrids  MMT A Flex

Cobra 7 Hybrid  A Flex

PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

Cleveland CBX 54/12

Cobra Vintage Nova 33"

 

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7 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

While I'm reluctant to make a blanket statement, once the clubs like the 9 iron and wedges are listed at a standard length of build, say 35 1/2 inches, the swing weight will in fact increase because the club heads typically do weigh more as you move down from the 9 through the wedges.

As to your earlier question, if you grab  your 9 iron six inches above the club head it'll feel like it weighs next to  nothing.  Move the club head out to 18 inches from the club head; same club head now feels much heavier.  Now grab it by the grip and hold it straight out in front of you.  You'll see how the distance from where you're holding the club to the club head itself influences the perceived, or swing weight of the club.

This is all very helpful and makes sense. Appreciate it. I’m the dummy that assumed the opposite based on specs on irons from OEM sites. 

Brought this up for my G425 irons are getting re-gripped at the moment … went to the range today with just my woods and wedges, but also brought my Maltby TS-1 PW along and I really love the weight of it. It’s noticeably heavier, which I always knew, but it’s been 7 months since I’ve swung the Maltby. 

Some lazy internet research shows that just the head alone is 20g heavier than the G425

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Driver: :ping-small: G410 SFT 10.5*

3W: :cobra-small:  Speedzone 14.5*

Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS2 19* & 21*

Irons: :ping-small:  G425 (5-PW) 

Wedges: :ping-small:  Glide 3.0 50* :titelist-small: Vokey SM7 54* & 58*

Putter: :ping-small:  Heppler Anser 2

Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1 & :Snell: MTB-Black

 

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26 minutes ago, mikeanthony said:

This is all very helpful and makes sense. Appreciate it. I’m the dummy that assumed the opposite based on specs on irons from OEM sites. 

Brought this up for my G425 irons are getting re-gripped at the moment … went to the range today with just my woods and wedges, but also brought my Maltby TS-1 PW along and I really love the weight of it. It’s noticeably heavier, which I always knew, but it’s been 7 months since I’ve swung the Maltby. 

Some lazy internet research shows that just the head alone is 20g heavier than the G425

That 20 gram difference is going to make a very, very noticeable difference.  If you wanted to play around with your Ping irons to see if it made any difference for you, I'd be looking at a grip that was around 10 grams lighter than what you're currently using.  It'd give you a pretty equivalent "feel" to the Maltby wedge without requiring you to mess with club length or spend a fortune.  Just a thought.

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PXG 0211  12*  Paderson Kinetixx A flex

PXG 0211 5 and 7 Woods  Paderson Kinetixx A Flex

PXG 0211 5 and 5 Hybrids  MMT A Flex

Cobra 7 Hybrid  A Flex

PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

Cleveland CBX 54/12

Cobra Vintage Nova 33"

 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

That 20 gram difference is going to make a very, very noticeable difference.  If you wanted to play around with your Ping irons to see if it made any difference for you, I'd be looking at a grip that was around 10 grams lighter than what you're currently using.  It'd give you a pretty equivalent "feel" to the Maltby wedge without requiring you to mess with club length or spend a fortune.  Just a thought.

Well I’ll be damned … feel like a light bulb has gone off and this all makes sense now. 

The previous grips were PING’s Arccos Gold … which just felt way larger than a typical GP Midsize grip. Went with GP MCC Align in standard with plus 2 wraps. I’d imagine between the downsize in grips and the removal of the sensors will make a big difference. I’ll be picking them up tmrw and I’m already looking fwd to it. 

Huge thanks for the clarification

Edited by mikeanthony

Driver: :ping-small: G410 SFT 10.5*

3W: :cobra-small:  Speedzone 14.5*

Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS2 19* & 21*

Irons: :ping-small:  G425 (5-PW) 

Wedges: :ping-small:  Glide 3.0 50* :titelist-small: Vokey SM7 54* & 58*

Putter: :ping-small:  Heppler Anser 2

Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1 & :Snell: MTB-Black

 

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18 minutes ago, mikeanthony said:

Well I’ll be damned … feel like a light bulb has gone off and this all makes sense now. 

The previous grips were PING’s Arccos Gold … which just felt way larger than a typical GP Midsize grip. Went with GP MCC Align in standard with plus 2 wraps. I’d imagine between the downsize in grips and the removal of the sensors will make a big difference. I’ll be picking them up tmrw and I’m already looking fwd to it. 

Huge thanks for the clarification

Let us know how it goes, ok?  And if you can ask whoever did the grips to give you the weight of one of the grips and the weight of one of the sensors that'd help a lot.

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PXG 0211  12*  Paderson Kinetixx A flex

PXG 0211 5 and 7 Woods  Paderson Kinetixx A Flex

PXG 0211 5 and 5 Hybrids  MMT A Flex

Cobra 7 Hybrid  A Flex

PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

Cleveland CBX 54/12

Cobra Vintage Nova 33"

 

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This is one of the reasons that I despise the entire swing weight measurement on golf clubs. It's a static measurement that claims to correlate to the feeling of swinging the club. I come from a tennis background where swing weight is a dynamic measurement that measures the effective resistance of the racquet moving around an axis. In golf terminology, this correlates pretty well to MOI (moment of inertia). 

As @Bobbers said, other things being equal, longer clubs will have higher swing weight because the weight of the club head is farther from the fulcrum where the club is balanced for swing weight measurement. The same weight on a longer lever will feel heavier. All other things being equal, that 20 gram heavier head is going to contribute to about a full letter SW difference (10 points). In a typical set, the club head weights adjust corresponding to the change in length for clubs, 1/2" shorter going from the 7 to 8 iron for example is approximately 3 SW points, so the 8 iron club head is usually around 6-7 grams heavier to keep the swing weight consistent.

Things can get a little funny down in the wedges because sometimes the head weights will keep the weight gapping, but the length gapping doesn't stay at a consistent 1/2", so it's not uncommon to see increasing swing weight as you move down the wedges. 

I don't like the static swing weight measurement because of the entire counter balance concept. In theory I can make a club weigh 6 pounds and still be a D3 swing weight as long as the weight is balanced properly. It would be an absolute beast to swing and entirely impractical, but it would balance at a D3. Measure that same club for MOI and it wouldn't even be close to a normal D3 club. 

I'm more sensitive to the feel of the weight in movement, so I went with more of an MOI match. In order to do that my irons actually increase in SW by 1/2 a point as I go down the set. 

Alright, I'm good with my rant for day. 

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Driver: Srixon Z565, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu
3 Wood: Snake Eyes Viper Tour, Aldila NV
Hybrids: Snake Eyes Viper Tour 18 and 24 deg, Aldila NV
Irons: Srixon I-701 5-PW, Nippon Modus3 Tour 120
Wedges: Callaway X-Forged 50, 54, and 58, Nippon Modus3 Wedge 115
Putter: Yes! Marilyn

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I happen to like a higher swing weight for my wedges. The main reason I prefer a higher swing weight in my wedges is that I play more less than full swing shots with my wedges than I do with my irons. And when I play less than full swing shots with my wedges, It's rather common for me to choke down on the club to play those shots. And as has been stated here a few days ago. when the shaft gets shorter, as when I choke down on the grip. the swing weight goes down. For this reason, I like to add some weight to the inside of the shaft at the hosel end to bring the swing weight up so that when I choke down on the grip. I have a wedge that "Feels" about the same as all of my other irons in my bag. The extra weight in the tip end of the shaft also helps the club "cut" through the sand in a bunker or the tall grass of the rough when I play those less than full swing shots. You might be surprised how much an extra 20 grams of weight added to the hosel of my sand wedge helps me to get the ball up and out of the sand a whole lot better than a standard weight head would. Same for my Lob wedge when I play a "flop" shot from the rough around the greens. 

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On 4/17/2022 at 5:07 PM, mikeanthony said:

Question, my iron specs are 1” over standard …

With that said, and all things being equal (same iron head, grip and iron shaft weight) am I correct in thinking that a standard length 7i will feel slightly heavier - swing weight wise - than a 7i that is 1” over standard? 

Not a club fitter and afraid I’m asking a question that has an obvious answer. 

And if that is the case, what club fitting method is used to offset the lower swing weight of the 1” over standard iron … besides placing lead tape on the iron heads. 

Hey Mike.  I went from +1" on my G410's w/AWT shafts (98g) to +1/2" on my ZX5's with MMT80 shafts (78g).  The G410's were about D4 and the ZX5's were supposed to be built to D2 but were closer to D0.  I definitely felt the difference and had to have Fairway Jockey add some weight into the hosel. My change from standard to midsize grips was a contributor as well.  

As pointed out, SW is kind of a relative thing and some will not notice a 2-3 point difference and some will. 

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

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... While I believe in your clubs being consistent in weight/swing weight/length, etc every club is an individual club. Ignorance is bliss works for golf clubs too. I bought a new driver out in LA when I was there for pilot season and was hitting it better than any drivers I previously played. I had no access to my club building equipment so didn't know the length or swing weight and when I got back to Chicago I checked everything out. I was very shocked to find the driver swing weight was D8!?! I normally play D1 in my driver. Once I knew it was a very heavy swing weighted driver I did not hit it as well as when I was in LA. Obviously nothing changed other than my knowledge I was playing a much heavier driver than normal but that was enough to sabotage the performance. I often wonder if I never measured it, would it have performed just as well in different conditions as Chicago is quite different than LA but my guess is ignorance is bliss. 

Driver:     :cobra-small: LTDx 10.5* ... LinQ M40X 6F3
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/16.5/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R
                 :taylormade-small: DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
                  :taylormade-small: Sim Hybrid 22* ... Diamana Ltd 75R
Irons:        :cobra-small: 5-Pw Forged Tec ... Steelfiber i80R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 50*/MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :cleveland-small: Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:           :taylormade-small: Maxfli Tour '22/TP5x '21

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I believe I heard it said a few times that golf is as much a mental game as it is a game of skill. I would have to say your experience is proof of that statement. Funny how th mind works at times. 

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Mike, who did your fitting?  David Ayres or Billy Forbes? 

   

Titleist

DRIVER - TSI3 10.75* - Fujikura Speeder 661 TR S  

FAIRWAY - TSI2 16.5* - Fujikura Motore Speeder VC 6.1 S

HYBRID - 816H1 18.0* - Fujikura Motore Speeder HB 8.8 Tour Spec S

HYBRID - 818H1 21.0* - Fujikura Motore Speeder HB 8.8 Tour Spec S

IRONS - T300 (2019) - 5-W - True Temper AMT Red 107g-95gm R300

WEDGES - VOKEY SM9 - 52.08F, 56.10S - True Temper AMT Red 94gm R300,  SM7 - 58.12D N.S. PRO 950GH R300       

***  GolfPride MC+4 Midsize Grips  (all woods/irons/wedges) 

PUTTER - 2020 CAMERON SPECIAL SELECT CUSTOM  - 35" Newport 2                                                    * GolfPride SNSR 104 Grip

GOLF BALL - TITLEIST - Prov1 

GOLF BAG - TITLEIST - Midsize Tour Bag Black/Black/Red and Black Cart 14 

GOLF GLOVE - FOOTJOY - StaSof, Hyper Flex, StaCooler, Rain Glove

SHOES/APPAREL - FOOTJOY 

RANGEFINDER -  BUSHNELL - Pro XE

 

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My knowledge is from decades ago, when I used to build clubs as a hobby, but I assume it is still similar.

I was told that the swingweight increases 2.5 to 3 points for each half inch of increased length.

It depends on the weight of the shaft.  A heavier steel shaft probably would be 3 points, while a lighter graphite shaft perhaps closer to 2.5 points.

Thus, if you increase by one inch, the swingweight would increase by 5 or 6 points.  A D2 swingweight would now be a D7 or D8.

If you wanted a standard swingweight, there are weighted plugs one can put into the butt of the shaft, under the grip, which helps counterweight the club.

Also, a heavier grip, such as a midsize or jumbo grip, will lessen the swingweight via the counterweight effect.

As for the follow-up comment about the actual weight of clubheads, yes, the shorter clubs have heavier clubhead weights.  Thus, the sand wedge is the heaviest clubhead in the bag.

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4 hours ago, Joe Golfer said:

If you wanted a standard swingweight, there are weighted plugs one can put into the butt of the shaft, under the grip, which helps counterweight the club.

 

... That is really just tricking the swing weight scale. Most that put in a grip weight for counter balance cannot tell much or any difference with or without the weights since you aren't swinging them at their position under your top hand. That said, some like a counter balanced irons and have success using this method but usually not those that extend a shaft and just want to reduce the measured swing weight. 

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Driver:     :cobra-small: LTDx 10.5* ... LinQ M40X 6F3
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/16.5/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R
                 :taylormade-small: DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
                  :taylormade-small: Sim Hybrid 22* ... Diamana Ltd 75R
Irons:        :cobra-small: 5-Pw Forged Tec ... Steelfiber i80R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 50*/MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :cleveland-small: Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:           :taylormade-small: Maxfli Tour '22/TP5x '21

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Here is a basic answer for for golf clubs that are longer than standard length:

Increase the length by each half inch will increase the swingweight by 3 points---and also the lie angle will be more upright by one degree for each half inch.

And with added length the shaft will be more flexible and a different CPM.

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Between the stock market's volatility and the boys h/s golf team that I coach for Regional and Lower State, life's been f'n busy ... that I forgot about this page for a bit. And I also posted on the 'What Have You Bought Lately' page about my grip and additional 0.5" shaft extension purchase. 

Long/short of it ... After initially liking the swing weight of the adjusted iron length and grip, it was after a couple range sessions and 9 hole rounds that I went back to the half-inch over standard club length ... and thankfully, my guy Bob at the Golf House here in Charleston, was able to blow off the grips and reuse them with +2 wraps. Just much better and while my specs are 1" over standard for shaft length, I've gotten adjusted and used to the 0.5" inch over standard length. 

The swing weight was almost a D5 ... and was likely a D2 prior to the adjustments. It's currently a shade under D3 with the removal of PING's Arccos Gold/Midsize grip and going to a standard grip with +2 wraps. I honestly don't know how anyone could not notice a swing weight difference of close to 3 points. 

And yes @ChuckZ, it was specifically David Ayers that fitted me back in the summer of 2018 that I got a full bag fitting and went with him rebuilding my previous TM M1 irons. Won't knock on Ayers, for I love the guy and have worked with him personally and saw dramatic improvements with my irons and especially my woods once I knew my graphite specs ... but it was when I was having my Maltby iron heads built out that I had a negative experience with a few folks there and simply haven't gone back. Plus we live in Park Circle and Bob at the Golf House has been fantastic. 

Driver: :ping-small: G410 SFT 10.5*

3W: :cobra-small:  Speedzone 14.5*

Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS2 19* & 21*

Irons: :ping-small:  G425 (5-PW) 

Wedges: :ping-small:  Glide 3.0 50* :titelist-small: Vokey SM7 54* & 58*

Putter: :ping-small:  Heppler Anser 2

Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1 & :Snell: MTB-Black

 

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