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Counterfeit Drivers


tony@CIC
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Played with a guy yesterday that had a Ping counterfeit 410. Initially I though he had a 425 since the 'Alta' shaft was a different color and the head definitely looked like a Ping but it had a crazy hollow sound.  When I asked him, he said no it was a China knockoff 410 and that he won't pay $500 for a driver. Hmmm what do you say to a guy that contributes to the counterfeit problem. 

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:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra King F-9  5 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
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Golf Balls: Snell MTB-X  And Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Tester :SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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9 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

Played with a guy yesterday that had a Ping counterfeit 410. Initially I though he had a 425 since the 'Alta' shaft was a different color and the head definitely looked like a Ping but it had a crazy hollow sound.  When I asked him, he said no it was a China knockoff 410 and that he won't pay $500 for a driver. Hmmm what do you say to a guy that contributes to the counterfeit problem. 

I'd hope this was someone  you got paired with at the course.  In which case I'd work hard not to get paired with him again...

If it was someone I knew?  My comment would have been along the lines of "and it'll give you the same 'discount' in performance..."

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PXG 0211  12*  Paderson Kinetixx A flex

PXG 0211 5 and 7 Woods  Paderson Kinetixx A Flex

PXG 0211 5 and 5 Hybrids  MMT A Flex

Cobra 7 Hybrid  A Flex

PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

Cleveland CBX 54/12

Cobra Vintage Nova 33"

 

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I'd make sure it became a part of his permanent record.

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:callaway-small: Epic Max Driver, 9*, Project X HZRDUS Smoke 50g

:callaway-small: Epic Max 3-wood,  Project X HZRDUS Smoke 

:ping-small: G425 Max 7-wood

:mizuno-small: Hot Metal 921, 5-GW, UST Mamiya Recoil 95 Graphite

:Sub70:       286 Forged Wedges, 52* and 56*

:wilson_staff_small: Infinite Buckingham putter

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Happened to me once. Purchased a set of Taylor Made irons on EBay.  I had them almost two months and the head on the 7 iron snapped like a twig. I contacted Taylor Made to make a claim only to find out they were knock offs. Attempted to contact the seller on eBay only to find out they didn’t exist. eBay Couldn't help me out because I had gone past the time frame. This happens quite a few years ago. This happened quite a few years ago so chalk it up to a very expensive lesson learned. Buyer beware. 

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Nothing you can say! But when I worked at a golf superstore, we took trades on counterfeit clubs and gave the people the same amount as we would give for the real deal. Then we'd sell it as the real deal. That was the manager's decisions. He didn't care as long as we made lots and lots of money. Very dishonest, but he was the manager.

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Certified Club Fitter.

Ping G425 Max Driver 10.5° w/Diamona S+ LTD Blue-Board 70 R Flex

Ping G410 5 Fairway Wood Mitsubishi Tensi Orange R Flex

Ping G410 4-5-6 Hybrids Mitsubishi Tensi Blue R Flex

Ping i500 Irons 5-U w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex (power-spec lofts)

Ping 3.0 Eye2 Glide Wedges 54°-58° w/Recoil SmacWrap F3 Flex

2021 Ping Fetch Putter/1996 Original Odyssey (not Callaway) Dual Force Rossie Blade

PING Pioneer Cart Bag

Lamkin Sonar+ Mid-Size Grips

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12 hours ago, Riverboat said:

Harsh. All I can say is you must lead a very clean life... Except for the judgmental part. With all the horrible things everyday people do in their lives, buying a knockoff driver ranks pretty far down the list.

I lead a life where I spent considerable time at one point trying to protect my company's intellectual property from being stolen by people who'd have been more than happy to use that theft to ruin part of a business we spent a long time creating and growing.  Perhaps I'm "sensitive" to the issue of counterfeits.  If that makes me "judgmental" I'll live with it, but I believe stealing is one of the horrible things everyday people do in their lives, be it a car, or the results of other people's hard work and creativity.  Peace.

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PXG 0211  12*  Paderson Kinetixx A flex

PXG 0211 5 and 7 Woods  Paderson Kinetixx A Flex

PXG 0211 5 and 5 Hybrids  MMT A Flex

Cobra 7 Hybrid  A Flex

PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

Cleveland CBX 54/12

Cobra Vintage Nova 33"

 

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12 hours ago, Riverboat said:

Harsh. All I can say is you must lead a very clean life... Except for the judgmental part. With all the horrible things everyday people do in their lives, buying a knockoff driver ranks pretty far down the list.

Have played with a few guys playing copy callaway irons in Australia and NZ, only difference I saw was they were hitting 6 and I hit 7/8 but they were happy out playing golf and I didn’t care too make a judgment on someone else choices….

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I think I’d draw distinction between counterfeit and knockoff. A counterfeit is something made to fool you into thinking you bought the real thing. A knockoff is something you know isn’t the real thing but resembles it. Both are usually cheaper than the original product.

For example, some Saplize and Champkey grips are made to look like Golf Pride’s MCC grips. Those are knock-offs. Folks buy them from Amazon because they don’t want to more spend money on the original.

The Chinese G410, though … it’s possible that folks buy them thinking their getting a great deal on a club only to realize they bought a fake. That’s not something folks are eager to admit on the course. “I won’t pay $500 for a driver” sounds like a line to say instead of saying, “I was taken by a website.”

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DRIVER :ping-small: G410 PLUS 10.5°  |  FAIRWAY :ping-small: G410 3/14.5°  
HYBRIDS 
:ping-small: G410 19°, 22°  |  IRONS :mizuno-small: JPX 900 FORGED 5-PW 
WEDGES :cleveland-small: 
CBX 2 50°, 54°, 58°  |  PUTTER KIRKLAND Signature KS1

BALL :wilson_staff_small: DUO SOFT +   :srixon-small: Z-URS   :callaway-small: SUPERSOFT, HX HOT BITE (old stock)
BAG :1590477705_SunMountain: 3.5 LS  |  PUSHCART :Clicgear: ROVIC RV1S

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2 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

I think I’d draw distinction between counterfeit and knockoff. A counterfeit is something made to fool you into thinking you bought the real thing. A knockoff is something you know isn’t the real thing but resembles it. Both are usually cheaper than the original product.

For example, some Saplize and Champkey grips are made to look like Golf Pride’s MCC grips. Those are knock-offs. Folks buy them from Amazon because they don’t want to more spend money on the original.

The Chinese G410, though … it’s possible that folks buy them thinking their getting a great deal on a club only to realize they bought a fake. That’s not something folks are eager to admit on the course. “I won’t pay $500 for a driver” sounds like a line to say instead of saying, “I was taken by a website.”

To be fair Saplize and Champkey aren’t knockoffs of Golf Pride. They are lesser quality(in my experience) and cheaper but Golf Pride isn’t even the original Multi Compound grip.  It’s no different than another putter company making an Anser or Spider style putter. They aren’t knockoffs but that companies version of said product. 

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Driver:    PXG Gen2 0811x 10.5* set to small + with a VA Composites Nemesys 55s @ 44.75"

Fairway:  :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Irons: Testing the Titleist T200 irons 4-W2 with Project X LZ 5.5 shaft -1/2" and 1* Up

Wedge: Titleist SM7 56* with Project X LZ 5.0 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Custom Futura X5 flow neck with a UST Frequency Filtered shaft -1" with a SS wristlock grip

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On 4/24/2022 at 1:10 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t care what anyone plays with or why they play it. People pay for all kinds of counterfeit consumer goods everyday from watches, sneakers, purses and so on.

Im not here to judge anyone and if they can live with themselves then good for them. 

What is bad in a lot of mainstream situations Is that the average golfer is not as savvy as us on MGS and other sites and honestly do not know. And some do not honestly realize a deal too good to be true often is not. And some again not knowing do not know the difference. I can also see your part on someone knowing and the part about living with them selves being in the know.

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Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label R-- PW Hogan Starburst 50* --- SW Cleveland 588 56*--- LW Cleveland 588 60*--- Putter -- Yep it is back Rusty Scotty Santa Fe 1997 vintage. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

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On 4/24/2022 at 1:04 PM, GolfSpy_APH said:

Easy to tell him a walk mart driver would have been just as good.

What I feel bad for is a guy we had come in to the shop who was gifted what he thought was a brand new Scotty for his 25 years of working with his company from a bunch of employees... Which had many many tells of being fake. Telling him it was harder. He didn't do it and was so excited to own a Scotty.

I am a truthful person but in that situation I could not tell him and bust his bubble

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Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label R-- PW Hogan Starburst 50* --- SW Cleveland 588 56*--- LW Cleveland 588 60*--- Putter -- Yep it is back Rusty Scotty Santa Fe 1997 vintage. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

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On 4/25/2022 at 6:08 PM, Bobbers said:

I lead a life where I spent considerable time at one point trying to protect my company's intellectual property from being stolen by people who'd have been more than happy to use that theft to ruin part of a business we spent a long time creating and growing.  Perhaps I'm "sensitive" to the issue of counterfeits.  If that makes me "judgmental" I'll live with it, but I believe stealing is one of the horrible things everyday people do in their lives, be it a car, or the results of other people's hard work and creativity.  Peace.

Yeah I agree with you stealing is stealing no matter what---- And inferior counterfeit products can give a reputable honest company a bad name 

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Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label R-- PW Hogan Starburst 50* --- SW Cleveland 588 56*--- LW Cleveland 588 60*--- Putter -- Yep it is back Rusty Scotty Santa Fe 1997 vintage. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

What is bad in a lot of mainstream situations Is that the average golfer is not as savvy as us on MGS and other sites and honestly do not know. And some do not honestly realize a deal too good to be true often is not. And some again not knowing do not know the difference. I can also see your part on someone knowing and the part about living with them selves being in the know.

I think many discredit the average consumer in some aspects and overhype the forum members. There are many members on forums that are there for the camaraderie, friendships, to just socialize and just for the love of the game and are on the same level as the average golf consumer, then there are those who are on them for the knowledg both to learn and share, along with the above reasons and probably others.

Anyone who has spent time in DC or NYC and my guess Miami sees the average consumer buy knockoffs and counterfeit products all the time because they want to have something that looks like the real deal but don’t want to pay the money for it. The number of those who are being fooled thinking they are getting a great deal is probably lower than most think.

Im amazed at how many spend time thinking, worrying about, concerned or any other description for how and where people spend money including the people they get randomly paired with that they may never see again. 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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13 hours ago, blackngold_blood said:

To be fair Saplize and Champkey aren’t knockoffs of Golf Pride. They are lesser quality(in my experience) and cheaper but Golf Pride isn’t even the original Multi Compound grip.  It’s no different than another putter company making an Anser or Spider style putter. They aren’t knockoffs but that companies version of said product. 

I just mean to say that theirs is a similar design style and color scheme to Golf Pride. I’m assuming Golf Pride sells the most club grips of this sort, and therefore they are each offering a cheaper, similar looking grip.

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DRIVER :ping-small: G410 PLUS 10.5°  |  FAIRWAY :ping-small: G410 3/14.5°  
HYBRIDS 
:ping-small: G410 19°, 22°  |  IRONS :mizuno-small: JPX 900 FORGED 5-PW 
WEDGES :cleveland-small: 
CBX 2 50°, 54°, 58°  |  PUTTER KIRKLAND Signature KS1

BALL :wilson_staff_small: DUO SOFT +   :srixon-small: Z-URS   :callaway-small: SUPERSOFT, HX HOT BITE (old stock)
BAG :1590477705_SunMountain: 3.5 LS  |  PUSHCART :Clicgear: ROVIC RV1S

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3 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

I just mean to say that theirs is a similar design style and color scheme to Golf Pride. I’m assuming Golf Pride sells the most club grips of this sort, and therefore they are each offering a cheaper, similar looking grip.

I got your point and thought it was on point.   There were/are clubs and equipment that are “clones”; meaning they had the same look as the original product and are  of acceptable quality but might not be as good as the original but cost less.  Then there are counterfeits that are made to look as close as possible to the original product to allow people to sell inferior products for the same (or for significantly more than it is worth) as the real item.   
 

Counterfeit products is an interesting topic.   We have people that knowingly buy counterfeit because they want a specific product but don’t want to pay the market value. They know the product is a fake but buy because it has a specific perception associated with it.   Rolex, Cameron, Gucci, etc.   Some people don’t see an issue with this because they know it is fake and would never buy the real product.  We have people that unknowingly spend money on counterfeit products thinking they bought the real item and spent hard earned money on that product only to potentially be disappointed when it doesn’t perform or they learn it is a fake.  The problem continues when they resell the product and don’t disclose that it is fake or know that it is fake.   
 

Ultimately counterfeiting exists because of human nature and a persons desire to own something that they believe is superior but can’t afford or won’t pay the price for said item.  People capitalize on this trait in order to make money which is key to a persons ability to survive and their desire to make as much as possible as easily as they can.  On both sides of the coin it is all about money.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Well, everybody want to save money, people who don't know about golf will get fooled every time.

You have the one that see a deal that's too good to past up.

You have the one that know it's a fake and still buy it to look better than the next person but he don't understand that golf is a "rich" people sport so the next one might be a millionaire and don't care about your item.

You got the one that got a gift and the person got ripped off, like the Scotty Cameron example.

You got the one that bough used item on ebay, marketplace or other website and got ripped off.

I mostly see the first type, too good to past up:

We need to educate those people...

#1 Retailers have a profit margin around 30% so any deal that would be more than that could be suspect.

#2 OEM gives "gift" / rebate / bonus to people in the industry so those people will sometimes have a very good "legit" deal but will often not advertise them on the open market, will be more deals for their friends and family.

In canada those are the latest deal i've seen from OEM.

Mizuno lend full irons set to fitters for a year and you give it back after. 

Callaway gives COST and additional 30% rebate on their clubs for people working at certain golf club.

Taylormade distributor are able to get their employee around 20% rebate of retail price.

THere are tons of other deal but im not aware of them...

 

 

 

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