Jump to content

Counterfeit Drivers


Recommended Posts

On 4/24/2022 at 10:46 AM, tony@CIC said:

Played with a guy yesterday that had a Ping counterfeit 410. Initially I though he had a 425 since the 'Alta' shaft was a different color and the head definitely looked like a Ping but it had a crazy hollow sound.  When I asked him, he said no it was a China knockoff 410 and that he won't pay $500 for a driver. Hmmm what do you say to a guy that contributes to the counterfeit problem. 

How did it perform? I wouldn't knowingly buy counterfeit, and I do believe if it's too good to be true (price) - it is fake/stolen/etc.

  • Like 2
  • Callaway Rogue 10.5° & 3W w MCC+4 Midsize
  • Mizuno CLK 3H 19°, JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10, S18 60.06 w MCC+4 Midsize
  • Evnroll ER5B Fit@TrueSpec ER2
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1 Snell MTB-Black
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Adidas Codechaos, FJ DryJoys
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, berkeleybob said:

I just mean to say that theirs is a similar design style and color scheme to Golf Pride. I’m assuming Golf Pride sells the most club grips of this sort, and therefore they are each offering a cheaper, similar looking grip.

I knew what you were saying and agree with the premise. I was merely trying to point out that knockoff isn’t the right word for those grips imo. 

  • Like 2

 

 

 

What is in my Bag Boy Revolver

Driver:    PXG Gen2 0811x 10.5* set to small + with a VA Composites Nemesys 55s @ 44.75"

Fairway:  :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Irons: Testing the Titleist T200 irons 4-W2 with Project X LZ 5.5 shaft -1/2" and 1* Up

Wedge: Titleist SM7 56* with Project X LZ 5.0 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Custom Futura X5 flow neck with a UST Frequency Filtered shaft -1" with a SS wristlock grip

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Middler said:

How did it perform? I wouldn't knowingly buy counterfeit, and I do believe if it's too good to be true (price) - it is fake/stolen/etc.

He hit it straight and probably about 200 yds which is typical for him. But the sound ... yikes...it sounded like it was going to fall apart. 

My business had to compete against (edit) counterfeits of our products so I guess I'm a bit sensitive about it.  

  • Like 5

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra King F-9  5 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Snell MTB-X  And Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Tester :SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I think many discredit the average consumer in some aspects and overhype the forum members. There are many members on forums that are there for the camaraderie, friendships, to just socialize and just for the love of the game and are on the same level as the average golf consumer, then there are those who are on them for the knowledg both to learn and share, along with the above reasons and probably others.

Anyone who has spent time in DC or NYC and my guess Miami sees the average consumer buy knockoffs and counterfeit products all the time because they want to have something that looks like the real deal but don’t want to pay the money for it. The number of those who are being fooled thinking they are getting a great deal is probably lower than most think.

Im amazed at how many spend time thinking, worrying about, concerned or any other description for how and where people spend money including the people they get randomly paired with that they may never see again. 

Yeah I do not care what equipment someone else plays---- Now I do check out stuff because I am a gear junkie--- I am probably the most brand agnostic guy on this or any other forum--- I am also so to speak era agnostic too---- Hey if it works it works---- But generally in the golf world or at least around here I can count on one hand the local guys on here or WRX---- Do not know how long you have been on MGS but a few years back Adam sent some of us old timers a MGS Bag tag--- I have had local players ask about it and when I explain what MGS is they seem disinterested. Now on my Shootout Saturdays part of my fun is getting there early and discussing equipment with like 4 guys I know. One plays the black Cobra MB blades. 2 of the guys have went full PXG. One kid or rather young man in his 20s does about like I do and plays older stuff and picks up used blades all the time. The other week he even picked up a used Jones bag. He is going to play vintage with me this summer in fact I gave him a set of Power Bilt persimmons with stiff shafts--- I will venture you and I may form our opinions around folks due to demographics. You may very well indeed have more people in your area that are equipment savvy and not be on the golf forums than I do.

  • Like 4

Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW  Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

He hit it straight and probably about 200 yds which is typical for him. But the sound ... yikes...it sounded like it was going to fall apart. 

My business had to compete against (edit) counterfeits of our products so I guess I'm a bit sensitive about it.  

I don't blame you one bit regarding counterfeits, I wouldn't knowingly buy one in any product. But not much you can do about someone else's choices. If it sounds that bad, he's not fooling anyone?

  • Like 3
  • Callaway Rogue 10.5° & 3W w MCC+4 Midsize
  • Mizuno CLK 3H 19°, JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10, S18 60.06 w MCC+4 Midsize
  • Evnroll ER5B Fit@TrueSpec ER2
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1 Snell MTB-Black
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Adidas Codechaos, FJ DryJoys
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Middler said:

How did it perform? I wouldn't knowingly buy counterfeit, and I do believe if it's too good to be true (price) - it is fake/stolen/etc.

When we had the golf shop some 15 years back now we had a used Callaway Bertha Ruger Titanium Driver... One of the customers looked at it a few times. Came back 2 days later and informed me he had bought a new one off the net some $30 cheaper than out used one. I told him cool. Now in those days there were several companies making Bertha clones and the Original Bertha was not old enough at the time for a deep discount even new ( we were also a Callaway Dealer). A couple of weeks later he brought his "Bertha" in and it was a clone and a darn near counterfeit one at that. Said it hit funny and I did the magnet test clank. I explained it to him and ended up selling him a new one. He actually wanted a trade in on the clone. Callaway was real funny about clones and I told him no that if the Cally rep saw that thing in our shop for sale they would yank our dealership. Another local shop got their Cally franchise yanked because they were building and selling S2H2 clone irons and clone Berthas. 

  • Like 3

Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW  Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

He hit it straight and probably about 200 yds which is typical for him. But the sound ... yikes...it sounded like it was going to fall apart. 

My business had to compete against (edit) counterfeits of our products so I guess I'm a bit sensitive about it.  

Yeah back in the day some of those Nike SQ clones were louder than the real thing which was loud by itself. Another honorable mention on the loud driver scale was the old Cleveland Launchers

  • Like 2

Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW  Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great questions all.

I'm against counterfeiting. It's just blatant theft. I would want people to know somethings was counterfeit before they bought it. I'd like to dry up the demand for counterfeit goods.

I doubt I'd say anything to someone who has a counterfeit club, unless they knew it was counterfeit. I would be nice and let them know I think it's wrong. 

 

  • Like 5

It looks like a good day to play golf!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd love to get a Clone with a hot face....  I once hit a massively oversized driver at a muni with the guy I was playing with, must have been 1000cc's, HUGE.  I just bombed the ball with it...  Obviously illegal... but a clone that isn't regulation... hmmm.  To be fair, I'd buy a real version of the club but use the "hot" one.  I honestly could never tell the difference between the real McCoy and a fake.

On another note on topic, I do have several real Rolex watches bought at certified Rolex jewelers.  I recently bought a clone of one of them, over $1000 but a perfect replica.  Why? so I can wear it every day. Walking around Los Angeles with $15,000 or more on your wrist isn't very smart these days.  They sit in my safe. If I get robbed, I can easily give up the replica... 

  • Like 2

EPIC Driver, EPIC 3 Wood, EPIC hybrid, Adams irons, Callaway wedges, Scotty putter and Titleist ball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/25/2022 at 3:59 AM, Riverboat said:

Harsh. All I can say is you must lead a very clean life... Except for the judgmental part. With all the horrible things everyday people do in their lives, buying a knockoff driver ranks pretty far down the list.

Let's be entirely clear on this - a counterfeit driver isn't a knockoff. IMO, knockoffs are a copy of a product that doesn't purport to be the actual product / real thing - that's a counterfeit. Example: Company XYZ makes a driver that's a dead ringer for a Ping 425, but sells it as the "Zoom 425". Counterfeits fraudulently hit the market labelled as 'Ping 425'. While some people will buy it with full knowledge they're buying a fake, others will get duped. Whether that's the first buyer or one who buys it used, the net result is not only money that doesn't go to Ping, but likely consumers who get a club that doesn't perform like the real thing and blame Ping for producing crappy products.

Edited by cycleguy55
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Pouetvl11 said:

Well, everybody want to save money, people who don't know about golf will get fooled every time.

You have the one that see a deal that's too good to past up.

You have the one that know it's a fake and still buy it to look better than the next person but he don't understand that golf is a "rich" people sport so the next one might be a millionaire and don't care about your item.

You got the one that got a gift and the person got ripped off, like the Scotty Cameron example.

You got the one that bough used item on ebay, marketplace or other website and got ripped off.

I mostly see the first type, too good to past up:

We need to educate those people...

#1 Retailers have a profit margin around 30% so any deal that would be more than that could be suspect.

#2 OEM gives "gift" / rebate / bonus to people in the industry so those people will sometimes have a very good "legit" deal but will often not advertise them on the open market, will be more deals for their friends and family.

In canada those are the latest deal i've seen from OEM.

Mizuno lend full irons set to fitters for a year and you give it back after. 

Callaway gives COST and additional 30% rebate on their clubs for people working at certain golf club.

Taylormade distributor are able to get their employee around 20% rebate of retail price.

THere are tons of other deal but im not aware of them...

 

 

 

I don't know what he paid for his counterfeit Ping, but he probably could have purchased a real PXG 0211 driver for not much more $$ at today's prices. 

BTW, looking on AliExpress they have their "G425 Max" for nearly USD $195 with shipping. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004042549741.html

Meanwhile, the genuiine 0211 driver is selling for USD $225 + shipping. https://www.pxg.com/en-us/clubs/drivers/0211

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here’s my take I would feel bad if this is the only driver he could afford but if everybody did this we would have no investment in R&D for the equipment the average golfer enjoys.  Counterfeit is counterfeit call it what it is it’s cheating the system. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A buddy and I purchased new 425's.  He the Max and an LST for me.  We both tried them out for the first time yesterday.  Interesting that they sound "awful", so different from the 400 or 410 or most other drivers on the market today.  It was a distinctive hollow "thunk" versus the more common clink we expected.  Reminded me of my son's OLD Nike Sasquatch..!   If the new 425's hadn't sounded so similar, we would have thought something was "up".  Gave us pause - and some doubt for a moment.

Fake clubs?   Technology application takes funding and we've come a long way in the last decade.  Is $500 for a driver and all the applied research and development too much?  Maybe not...   Can you believe you can still buy a Sasquatch?

Agreed - you get what you pay for - AND you might keep an eye on whatever else he might do to "cheat the system" (aka - the footwedge).

Edited by JayAre
  • Like 2

Ping 425(s)  LST Ventus TR Blue shaft, 3-W, 4-19º 

New Level 623-CB irons, Miura 56º wedge

Scotty Cameron 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, cycleguy55 said:

I don't know what he paid for his counterfeit Ping, but he probably could have purchased a real PXG 0211 driver for not much more $$ at today's prices. 

BTW, looking on AliExpress they have their "G425 Max" for nearly USD $195 with shipping. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004042549741.html

Meanwhile, the genuiine 0211 driver is selling for USD $225 + shipping. https://www.pxg.com/en-us/clubs/drivers/0211

Great point - he paid $200 for the Counterfeit 410. FYI it looked exactly like my real 410 graphics and all. The reason why I had originally asked him about it is because I saw the head was identical but the shaft was a blue/gray Alta (identical graphics ). 

If you saw his new golf cart complete with raised wheels/ running bosards, etc. he could afford the extras 300 for the real 410. 

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra King F-9  5 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Snell MTB-X  And Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Tester :SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quick plug for Golf Pride since they were mentioned in this thread -- I bought some counterfeit MCC grips because I wanted the specific color scheme (not knowing they were counterfeit -- I had seen this color scheme before and assumed it was just leftover stock, but it was eBay...). But they didn't pass the sniff test, so I contacted Golf Pride directly with the info I gathered (a color fill issue on one, inconsistent weight from grip to grip outside of GP's usual tolerance). They were very helpful and seemed actually interested in the information to try to track down the counterfeit ring (they confirmed counterfeit with the information + pictures I sent). 

Callaway...not so much. They give the stock response of "we can't help you determine authenticity of your item", and don't seem interested in that same info if it is a counterfeit. 

  • Like 4

Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus 8* (adjusted to 8.75*), Mitsubishi Diamana ZF 70 X Flex

Fairway: :taylormade-small: SIM, 15* (adjusted to 15.75*), Shaft is a 50/50 split between Accra FX 2.0 300F M5 Flex and Paderson Kinetixx Ballistic TP 85 X Flex

Irons:  :titleist-small: T200 "Utility Build" 3 and 4 irons with Graphite Design Tour AD-IZ 95 X Flex, :titleist-small: T100S 5-PW with Nippon Pro Modus 120 X Flex (2021 MGS Test). These things are monsters. 

Wedges: :mizuno-small:T-20 Blue Ion 50.07, :Miura: K-Grind 2.0 Black 56* and Chrome 60* w/Accra SPI Tour

Putter: Total headcase, so it depends on the day. Rotate between :EVNROLL: ER11V ("Murdered Out" Black edition),  :mizuno-small: M Craft Type II Blue Ion and a Toulon Madison 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bot my 1st set of Brother irons, knock offs of Big Bertha.  I only bot 3 clubs, fitted for me by an independent fitter who only did fittings.  Later I added 2 more irons from him.  I was paying off my student loans.  They fit me perfectly.  And thus it stoked my love for the game.  Within a year or so I was conducting tournaments in my large company.  I thank Callaway for inventing the undercut groove oversize cast Bertha.  Now I buy from a store with real (I hope) not counterfeit.  I don't buy "too good to be true" new clubs.  I didn't mind knock offs until I read the great biography of Karsten Solheim, Ping founder and inventor, "Karsten's Way".  He was a one man shop when he invented his putter and then invented cast heads, and he made an honest profit, was bedeviled by counterfeits that were made in China from his own casts there or directly copied molds from him.  I suggest read this book and buy a few to spread around.  

Driver  Callaway Epic on Recoil F2 (senior) flex

Three wood is TM Burner Superfast 3.0 on M (mature) flex

3H Old Adams A3OS red boxster on stock Graffaloy Platinum reg shaft

3 MP 18 MMC and 4 GFF hybrid Mizuno irons

5 Mizu hybrid Fli-hi

6 - W Ping I 500 irons on Recoil F3 reg flex shafts

Wedges:  Mizuno blue 52 09, 60 06, and old original Hogan Sure-out 56 14 sand

Chipper (yep I carry a chipper) old Don Martin Up n In bronze 

Putter Musty wood mallet, sometimes switch with my Scotty Cameron Futura X counter weight face balanced

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/24/2022 at 10:04 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

Easy to tell him a walk mart driver would have been just as good.

What I feel bad for is a guy we had come in to the shop who was gifted what he thought was a brand new Scotty for his 25 years of working with his company from a bunch of employees... Which had many many tells of being fake. Telling him it was harder. He didn't do it and was so excited to own a Scotty.

That's just sad! 

:taylormade-small:  SIM2 8* Diamana S+ Stiff Tipped 1"

:callaway-small:Mavrik 4W - 16.5* Tensi AV Blue Stiff Tipped 1/2"

:titelist-small: 818 H1 19* Hybrid AV Tensi Blue Stiff

:Sub70: 699U Pro 3 iron HZRDUS Yellow 6.0

:Sub70: 699 Pro Black 5-PW KBS Tour 120 Stiff Black

:cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore 48* 54* 58* True Temper Dynamic Gold Spinner

Putter:

:titelist-small: See the source image Phantom X5- Current Gamer

:taylormade-small: Spider Tour Black on Black on Black

:Sub70: Sycamore 005 Wide Blade Putter

Ball: :titelist-small: . Pro V1 

Currently testing: Sub 70 848 Pro Driver 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, labillyboy said:

I'd love to get a Clone with a hot face....  I once hit a massively oversized driver at a muni with the guy I was playing with, must have been 1000cc's, HUGE.  I just bombed the ball with it...  Obviously illegal... but a clone that isn't regulation... hmmm.  To be fair, I'd buy a real version of the club but use the "hot" one.  I honestly could never tell the difference between the real McCoy and a fake.

On another note on topic, I do have several real Rolex watches bought at certified Rolex jewelers.  I recently bought a clone of one of them, over $1000 but a perfect replica.  Why? so I can wear it every day. Walking around Los Angeles with $15,000 or more on your wrist isn't very smart these days.  They sit in my safe. If I get robbed, I can easily give up the replica... 

There was a huge clone head one time that was about 750cc if I remember right---- It was a So Long Integra. And it had a thin face too. It was a component club and they would tell you off the bat that it was non conforming. We built several in our shop. I built one for me for kicks and giggles with a Penley Stiletto shaft. Man I could crank it but could not control it. I think back then Hireko Golf sold those--- I caved it in one night with range rocks at the range. No big loss because I think we had like $20 in the head. Was funny while it lasted. I junked the head and pulled the shaft and put that shaft in a Nakishima head. Those shafts had a cult like following around here. A few years back I pulled that shaft and sold it for $100 to a guy here

  • Like 1

Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW  Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dokex said:

Is there any difference between having a counterfeit C-note in your wallet and a counterfeit club in your bag? No.

LOL well there could be if you got caught passing that counterfeit C note Law Enforcement may be paying you a visit. I don't reckon the USGA will pay you a visit over the driver though

  • Like 1

Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW  Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...