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Counterfeit Drivers


tony@CIC

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6 hours ago, Pouetvl11 said:

Well, everybody want to save money, people who don't know about golf will get fooled every time.

You have the one that see a deal that's too good to past up.

You have the one that know it's a fake and still buy it to look better than the next person but he don't understand that golf is a "rich" people sport so the next one might be a millionaire and don't care about your item.

You got the one that got a gift and the person got ripped off, like the Scotty Cameron example.

You got the one that bough used item on ebay, marketplace or other website and got ripped off.

I mostly see the first type, too good to past up:

We need to educate those people...

#1 Retailers have a profit margin around 30% so any deal that would be more than that could be suspect.

#2 OEM gives "gift" / rebate / bonus to people in the industry so those people will sometimes have a very good "legit" deal but will often not advertise them on the open market, will be more deals for their friends and family.

In canada those are the latest deal i've seen from OEM.

Mizuno lend full irons set to fitters for a year and you give it back after. 

Callaway gives COST and additional 30% rebate on their clubs for people working at certain golf club.

Taylormade distributor are able to get their employee around 20% rebate of retail price.

THere are tons of other deal but im not aware of them...

 

 

 

I don't know what he paid for his counterfeit Ping, but he probably could have purchased a real PXG 0211 driver for not much more $$ at today's prices. 

BTW, looking on AliExpress they have their "G425 Max" for nearly USD $195 with shipping. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004042549741.html

Meanwhile, the genuiine 0211 driver is selling for USD $225 + shipping. https://www.pxg.com/en-us/clubs/drivers/0211

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A buddy and I purchased new 425's.  He the Max and an LST for me.  We both tried them out for the first time yesterday.  Interesting that they sound "awful", so different from the 400 or 410 or most other drivers on the market today.  It was a distinctive hollow "thunk" versus the more common clink we expected.  Reminded me of my son's OLD Nike Sasquatch..!   If the new 425's hadn't sounded so similar, we would have thought something was "up".  Gave us pause - and some doubt for a moment.

Fake clubs?   Technology application takes funding and we've come a long way in the last decade.  Is $500 for a driver and all the applied research and development too much?  Maybe not...   Can you believe you can still buy a Sasquatch?

Agreed - you get what you pay for - AND you might keep an eye on whatever else he might do to "cheat the system" (aka - the footwedge).

Edited by JayAre

Ping 425(s)  LST Ventus TR Blue shaft, 3-W, 4-19º 

New Level 623-CB irons, Miura 56º wedge

Scotty Cameron 

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26 minutes ago, cycleguy55 said:

I don't know what he paid for his counterfeit Ping, but he probably could have purchased a real PXG 0211 driver for not much more $$ at today's prices. 

BTW, looking on AliExpress they have their "G425 Max" for nearly USD $195 with shipping. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004042549741.html

Meanwhile, the genuiine 0211 driver is selling for USD $225 + shipping. https://www.pxg.com/en-us/clubs/drivers/0211

Great point - he paid $200 for the Counterfeit 410. FYI it looked exactly like my real 410 graphics and all. The reason why I had originally asked him about it is because I saw the head was identical but the shaft was a blue/gray Alta (identical graphics ). 

If you saw his new golf cart complete with raised wheels/ running bosards, etc. he could afford the extras 300 for the real 410. 

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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Quick plug for Golf Pride since they were mentioned in this thread -- I bought some counterfeit MCC grips because I wanted the specific color scheme (not knowing they were counterfeit -- I had seen this color scheme before and assumed it was just leftover stock, but it was eBay...). But they didn't pass the sniff test, so I contacted Golf Pride directly with the info I gathered (a color fill issue on one, inconsistent weight from grip to grip outside of GP's usual tolerance). They were very helpful and seemed actually interested in the information to try to track down the counterfeit ring (they confirmed counterfeit with the information + pictures I sent). 

Callaway...not so much. They give the stock response of "we can't help you determine authenticity of your item", and don't seem interested in that same info if it is a counterfeit. 

Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus 8* (adjusted to 8.75*), Mitsubishi Diamana ZF 70 X Flex

Fairway: :taylormade-small: Stealth2 Plus, 15* (adjusted to 14.25*) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD-IZ 7X

Irons:  :titleist-small: U505 1 Iron (16*), T200 "Utility Build" 3 and 4 irons, all with Graphite Design Tour AD-IZ 95 X Flex, :titleist-small: T100S 5-9 with Nippon Pro Modus 120 X Flex (2021 MGS Test). These things are monsters. 

Wedges:  :vokey-small: SM9 46.10, 54.12, and 58.08, all with custom etchings & KBS Tour Masters-themed shafts, X-flex (CHA Post)

Putter: Total headcase and Putter Ho. Down to two main options in the rotation (one mallet, one blade), but have 4-5 by the basement putting green that might make it in the bag at some point this year... Mallet: :L.A.B.: Mezz XL 36" Orange; Blade: :L.A.B.: Link.1 w/Accra White shaft & :garsen: grip

 

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I bot my 1st set of Brother irons, knock offs of Big Bertha.  I only bot 3 clubs, fitted for me by an independent fitter who only did fittings.  Later I added 2 more irons from him.  I was paying off my student loans.  They fit me perfectly.  And thus it stoked my love for the game.  Within a year or so I was conducting tournaments in my large company.  I thank Callaway for inventing the undercut groove oversize cast Bertha.  Now I buy from a store with real (I hope) not counterfeit.  I don't buy "too good to be true" new clubs.  I didn't mind knock offs until I read the great biography of Karsten Solheim, Ping founder and inventor, "Karsten's Way".  He was a one man shop when he invented his putter and then invented cast heads, and he made an honest profit, was bedeviled by counterfeits that were made in China from his own casts there or directly copied molds from him.  I suggest read this book and buy a few to spread around.  

Driver: PXG 0211, A flex Evnflo Riptide (2021). And an old Callaway 454 TI (2004) on regular flex.

3 W: Callaway Steelhead Xr A flex Tensei CK 55 gram. The rest are Regular flex.

5 W : Titleist TSi 1 on Aldila Ascent regular flex.

Driving Iron: Mizuno MP 18 MMC 3 18 degree, on Mamiya Recoil reg flex.

4 iron:  Mizuno Fly-Hi, 24 degree hybrid iron, GFF, even tho it is a hollow body iron.

6,7,8,9,wedge: Ping I 500, on Recoil reg flex shafts.

Gap wedges: 52 x 9 Mizuno forged S5, wedge shaft; 60 x 6 Mizuno forged T7, wedge shaft.

Sand: Old original Hogan Sure Out on Apex original shaft, probably 56 / 12.

Chipper:  (yep I carry a chipper) old Don Martin "Up n In" bronze? copper? 🙂

Putter: Just switched Jan 2024 to a Odyssey Stroke lab "R" Ball with the 2 piece, multi material shaft.🙃

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On 4/24/2022 at 10:04 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

Easy to tell him a walk mart driver would have been just as good.

What I feel bad for is a guy we had come in to the shop who was gifted what he thought was a brand new Scotty for his 25 years of working with his company from a bunch of employees... Which had many many tells of being fake. Telling him it was harder. He didn't do it and was so excited to own a Scotty.

That's just sad! 

Ping G430 Max 9* turned up to 10* in draw setting X-Stiff Ping Tour Chrome 2.0 60

Srixon ZX 3w Ventus Velocore Blue 7s

Ping G425 5w X-Stiff Ping Tour 70 

Srixon ZX5 4-6 Modus Tour 105 Stiff 

Srixon ZX& 7-PW  Modus Tour 105 Stiff 

:cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore 50* 54* 58* TrueTemper Dynamic Gold Spinner

 See the source image Phantom X5 Putter

Ball: Srixon Z-Star Diamond <>

 

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2 hours ago, labillyboy said:

I'd love to get a Clone with a hot face....  I once hit a massively oversized driver at a muni with the guy I was playing with, must have been 1000cc's, HUGE.  I just bombed the ball with it...  Obviously illegal... but a clone that isn't regulation... hmmm.  To be fair, I'd buy a real version of the club but use the "hot" one.  I honestly could never tell the difference between the real McCoy and a fake.

On another note on topic, I do have several real Rolex watches bought at certified Rolex jewelers.  I recently bought a clone of one of them, over $1000 but a perfect replica.  Why? so I can wear it every day. Walking around Los Angeles with $15,000 or more on your wrist isn't very smart these days.  They sit in my safe. If I get robbed, I can easily give up the replica... 

There was a huge clone head one time that was about 750cc if I remember right---- It was a So Long Integra. And it had a thin face too. It was a component club and they would tell you off the bat that it was non conforming. We built several in our shop. I built one for me for kicks and giggles with a Penley Stiletto shaft. Man I could crank it but could not control it. I think back then Hireko Golf sold those--- I caved it in one night with range rocks at the range. No big loss because I think we had like $20 in the head. Was funny while it lasted. I junked the head and pulled the shaft and put that shaft in a Nakishima head. Those shafts had a cult like following around here. A few years back I pulled that shaft and sold it for $100 to a guy here

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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1 hour ago, Dokex said:

Is there any difference between having a counterfeit C-note in your wallet and a counterfeit club in your bag? No.

LOL well there could be if you got caught passing that counterfeit C note Law Enforcement may be paying you a visit. I don't reckon the USGA will pay you a visit over the driver though

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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Hey, if a guy or a gal plays with knockoffs, that's on them, however, if I'm in a competition of some sort, you bet I'd have a lot to say about it. Recreational players with knockoffs don't offend me if that's what they can only afford to play this great game. The only downside to these players is that they're supporting the knockoff sellers.

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What can you say…hope he likes throwing money away and ruining his golf game…isn’t there a site where these can be reported…not sure what info you need and if In the long run whether any thing can be achieved…keep badgering him to dump it

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The counterfeit golf club market is alive and well. When I worked golf retail, I saw some really good counterfeit clubs, particularly iron sets. I was taught how to recognize a counterfeit club/set and it wasn't easy. The best counterfeit clubs, at the time, came from China.

For the accomplished golfer, who wants the "genuine" product, beware of what's out there. Buy from a reputable dealer or the factory. For those who don't care and simply want to own a "brand name" and not pay full price for it, so be it. As several have mentioned, they will buy a fake Rolex or a Gucci bag and flaunt it to make one think it is real. It isn't and they know it. They have to live with it.

Driver - Taylormade M6; 10.5 Degrees - Diamana BF50R shaft.

Fairway Woods - Tour Exotics (3 Wood) CBX119 EvenFlow Project X 5.5R Tour Exotics (4 Wood) XCG7; Fujikura 50R shaft.

Hybrids - PING G (19,22 and 26 Degree lofts.)

Irons - Mizuno MX300 (7-GW)

Wedges - Cleveland RTX4 (54 and 58 degree)

Putter - Pyramid Altec Series AZ-11

Ball - Bridgestone 330-RTX or Calloway Tour iz

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On 4/27/2022 at 9:08 AM, berkeleybob said:

 

The Chinese G410, though … it’s possible that folks buy them thinking their getting a great deal on a club only to realize they bought a fake. That’s not something folks are eager to admit on the course. “I won’t pay $500 for a driver” sounds like a line to say instead of saying, “I was taken by a website.”

I really wanted to say I like agree but that's not in the list!!

I’m a hacker who loves nothing more than to change how I play, be that grips shafts and heads its all fair game lol…

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1 hour ago, Gil B said:

Hey, if a guy or a gal plays with knockoffs, that's on them, however, if I'm in a competition of some sort, you bet I'd have a lot to say about it. Recreational players with knockoffs don't offend me if that's what they can only afford to play this great game. The only downside to these players is that they're supporting the knockoff sellers.

Well you need to be and Expert on golf club design and play with the person using counterfeit clubs, lots of things need to happen to help you personally I wouldn't waste my time. Anyone who does things to get an advantage is just kidding himself, plus knockoff clubs are not that good imho...

I’m a hacker who loves nothing more than to change how I play, be that grips shafts and heads its all fair game lol…

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On 4/25/2022 at 3:59 PM, HDTVMAN said:

Nothing you can say! But when I worked at a golf superstore, we took trades on counterfeit clubs and gave the people the same amount as we would give for the real deal. Then we'd sell it as the real deal. That was the manager's decisions. He didn't care as long as we made lots and lots of money. Very dishonest, but he was the manager.

Holy crap what golf superstore?

Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 project x LZ 60 6.0 handcrafted shaft

CallawayEpic Flash 3 wood

Callaway Big Bertha 3H

Titleist 818H2 4H

Callaway Big Bertha 19' irons 4-AW

Titleist SM7 Jet black with TT onyx black s400 shaft 50°

Callaway MD4 black 54° sand wedge

Callaway PM19 60° tour grey

Odyssey Toulon San Diego putter

1592935174442966599406225697326.jpg

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12 hours ago, BIG STU said:

I am a truthful person but in that situation I could not tell him and bust his bubble

The downside is if the results are not as expected, the actual OEM gets the black eye. In the off chance he goes to trade for a newer model, to be told then it is trash will also be a disappointment to him. 

Titleist TSR 11 degree, HZRDS Red R 44.75 LH

Titleist TSR-1 5/7 Woods LH

Titleist TSR-1 23 Hybrid LH

Titleist T200  7-48 - T350 6 Tensai AMT Red LH

 Titleist SM9 50-54-58 TT AMT Red LH

Scotty Phantom X 7.5 RH

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2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

LOL well there could be if you got caught passing that counterfeit C note Law Enforcement may be paying you a visit. I don't reckon the USGA will pay you a visit over the driver though

USGA, no. But the OEMs have teams to find   If the buyer on a resell files a complaint, the seller may get a visit. 

Titleist TSR 11 degree, HZRDS Red R 44.75 LH

Titleist TSR-1 5/7 Woods LH

Titleist TSR-1 23 Hybrid LH

Titleist T200  7-48 - T350 6 Tensai AMT Red LH

 Titleist SM9 50-54-58 TT AMT Red LH

Scotty Phantom X 7.5 RH

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Sometimes the comments on here make me happy I don't play with many of you - no joke, get over yourself, Rickybobby_pr,  and Riverboat said it right, we all learn the hard way --- get off the judgement seat -- UNLESS of course we are perfect people, reminds me of many forums - how guys say they bang their 3 wood 280 and driver 305 - they are probably the same guys that heard GI, $10 you have my virgin sister, some live in a different reality, and some have to learn the hard way.  Time for me to get off my soap box, I just would like to see reality on here, like --- like those who would jam their friend ---- feel bad for how dumb he was, he knows it - and if he is bragging about how good the knock off is, he may cheat on his score anyway --   

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Great, new drivers are expensive.  Based on the sound, there is no reason to think the counterfeit will almost be the same. Plenty of y-tube videos that compare an original and a counterfeit. The accuracy and other characteristics are far off. Buying an actual used club is a better option. 

Titleist TSR 11 degree, HZRDS Red R 44.75 LH

Titleist TSR-1 5/7 Woods LH

Titleist TSR-1 23 Hybrid LH

Titleist T200  7-48 - T350 6 Tensai AMT Red LH

 Titleist SM9 50-54-58 TT AMT Red LH

Scotty Phantom X 7.5 RH

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 I have a friend who's a low launch hitter while I'm High launch. We tried each other's drivers with predictable results yeah absolute rubbish, with a big tail wind I was ok with his but he hit mine 10metres off the ground, you would of thought they were counterfeit they were that bad but you need to expert to know the real thing because I can't tell....

I’m a hacker who loves nothing more than to change how I play, be that grips shafts and heads its all fair game lol…

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On 4/24/2022 at 1:04 PM, GolfSpy_APH said:

Easy to tell him a walk mart driver would have been just as good.

What I feel bad for is a guy we had come in to the shop who was gifted what he thought was a brand new Scotty for his 25 years of working with his company from a bunch of employees... Which had many many tells of being fake. Telling him it was harder. He didn't do it and was so excited to own a Scotty.

I'd wonder about the guy from the company that bought that fake Scotty.  I can hear it now "hey guys we need to pitch in to get $500 to get Bob a Scotty Cameron putter for retirement. " Then goes out and buys a $50 fake and pockets $450

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12 hours ago, WiTerp50 said:

USGA, no. But the OEMs have teams to find   If the buyer on a resell files a complaint, the seller may get a visit. 

Oh yes I know --- Our shop was also an Titleist dealer and we had some guys trying to sell us some Scotty Cameron putters at a fantastic deal. In fact Newports cheaper than we were getting them as a dealer from Titleist. Our cameras did get a tag number. One of our good customers was a LEO on the state crime task force we contacted him and also our Titleist sales rep. Our LEO friend did some checking and told us the feds had a line on these guys. Our Titleist rep also told us later independently that their loss prevention folks were "on it" . About 6 months later the feds pounced hard on those guys. Golf clubs were not the only counterfeits they were importing. They had a whole warehouse up in nearby Wilmington NC full of stuff. Stuff like those fancy ladies pocketbooks Rolex watches and the likes all of them counterfeit. There was a AP write up on it that made all our local papers and our LEO friend showed us some reports.

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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1 hour ago, Riverboat said:

If that's how it happened, that guy is the world's biggest a******. It's like the guy who's supposed to buy the hole in one insurance for the charity tournament who pockets the money every year figuring the hole in one won't happen anyway. I've read of that happening in multiple situations.

That actually happened quite a few a few times in the Charlotte NC area a few years ago. In fact it happened at a Church sponsored thing. And no I am not going to get into any discussion on Church sponsored gambling. He actually did not get any HIO claims but he got caught. Seems he had several outstanding warrants for him on stuff like that out of state. The guy was either ballsy or stupid because he tried to pull that gag on a FOP charity. One of the officers involved recognized his face from the flyer and he was arrested. Come to find out another officer was involved on the Church thing and recognized him also. Did not ever hear on the outcome.

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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I bought a fake R7. Smoked the ball! A friend convinced me to sell it to him and go buy another one. I sold it to him and bought another one. The new one was a POS! You never know what you are going to get. That was the last time I made that mistake! Another friend has a set of fake G2 irons. More crap, I can tell the different but he can't. He still plays with them to this day! Of course his game matches his irons. LOL!

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4 hours ago, leonmot said:

I bought a fake R7. Smoked the ball! A friend convinced me to sell it to him and go buy another one. I sold it to him and bought another one. The new one was a POS! You never know what you are going to get. That was the last time I made that mistake! Another friend has a set of fake G2 irons. More crap, I can tell the different but he can't. He still plays with them to this day! Of course his game matches his irons. LOL!

More than likely the fake R-7 had a thinner face and more than likely non conforming but hot. After a while with a big strong hitter those things would crack due to being so thin. I have seen that a lot over the years and have performed a "autopsy" on more than one cracked head. 

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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On 4/24/2022 at 9:46 AM, tony@CIC said:

Played with a guy yesterday that had a Ping counterfeit 410. Initially I though he had a 425 since the 'Alta' shaft was a different color and the head definitely looked like a Ping but it had a crazy hollow sound.  When I asked him, he said no it was a China knockoff 410 and that he won't pay $500 for a driver. Hmmm what do you say to a guy that contributes to the counterfeit problem. 

 

irons PXG gen 5 6-AW

pxg driver and 4 wood 

callaway 5 wood & hybrids

ten different putters

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