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Phil marks return at Southern Hills and commits to the LIV golf league


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Phil officially announces that he has registered to defend at Southern Hills in May and has requested a release to play in the first LIV golf tournament in London in June. Just when you think that the Saudi league is on it's last breath, they're coming back. Anyone have any takes on how Phil plays at Southern Hills? He'll obviously be the media focus of the entire week.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm glad to see him back and really hope he does well.  The odds of a repeat are next to nothing but I'm a Phil fan and will be rooting for him.  The PGA should pair him with Rory and Tiger on Thursday... the remaining 14 patrons not following that group will have the entire place to themselves 🤣.  As for the Shark Tour, it is not going away anytime soon, IMO, and he isn't the only one that will be requesting a LWOP.  I personally think this tour is going to stir up the stuff before it dies down, if it ever does.  I also suspect a lot more players are remaining silent but seriously considering that tour in a wait and see mode.  

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PGA commish denied all exemptions to play London. Now to see if the players have the marbles to play in it

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11 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

PGA commish denied all exemptions to play London. Now to see if the players have the marbles to play in it

Phil has the marbles! 😁

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Phil needs $40 million to get back to even on some old betting losses. I don’t think I’ll be pulling for him much going forward. Kind of disappointed.

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37 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Phil needs $40 million to get back to even on some old betting losses. I don’t think I’ll be pulling for him much going forward. Kind of disappointed.

I pull for anyone that has arthritis as bad or worse than I do.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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49 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

I pull for anyone that has arthritis as bad or worse than I do.

Awesome! Then you’ll be pulling for me too!!!! 😊 

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

PGA commish denied all exemptions to play London. Now to see if the players have the marbles to play in it

Oh boy, here we go.  You're "free agents" but not really. I see a boat load of billable hours by a fleet of attorneys in my fuzzy crystal ball.  As this sabre rattling ensues we're likely going to get a peek into contract specifics that we'd otherwise never know about.  I'll take the refillable tub but pass on the butter 😆.  

Line in the sand: PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan has denied players permission to play on LIV Golf tour (yahoo.com)

Newman Popcorn GIF | Gfycat

And, if that weren't enough of a kick in the willy, Jay sent Greg another shot across the bow.  

Greg Norman denied special exemption to play 2022 Open Championship (golf.com)

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Denying the release will be hard to justify, only because the tour so often grants releases to play in DP for events. 

So the precedent has been set and the tour isn't following that. 

But the argument that the players are free agents isn't exactly true. The players are members of the PGA tour and enjoy the rights/privileges that come with it. I. E. Automatic entry into events if they are in the top 125. If any player wants to give up their pga tour status then they would be a free agent. They could play all the LIV events they could get into, and try to Monday qualify for pga events, or get entry in via an alternate means. 

The PGA tour isn't backed by a state government, but mostly by the TV contracts it negotiates. The value of those contracts could be drastically adjusted if much of the top talent switched tours. 

Jay /the tour have decided that playing hardball is the best option for them. I think they are in a no win situation. 

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Without getting into the social politics I simply just think it's bad for the game. It isn't growing the game, as for me, that is done at a grass roots level. Not paying millions more to millionaires.

For those who want to go, great go ahead. I don't have interest in this new league. The extra money they play for doesn't get me excited or make me want to tune in to watch.

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9 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Oh boy, here we go.  You're "free agents" but not really. I see a boat load of billable hours by a fleet of attorneys in my fuzzy crystal ball.  As this sabre rattling ensues we're likely going to get a peek into contract specifics that we'd otherwise never know about.  I'll take the refillable tub but pass on the butter 😆.  

Line in the sand: PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan has denied players permission to play on LIV Golf tour (yahoo.com)

Newman Popcorn GIF | Gfycat

And, if that weren't enough of a kick in the willy, Jay sent Greg another shot across the bow.  

Greg Norman denied special exemption to play 2022 Open Championship (golf.com)

only legal action I can see is from the LIV tour. The players are members of the tour and have to abide by the rules which they did. The tour has the right to deny any request for exception. There’s no criteria that I’m aware of that limits when or why an exception has to be granted.

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6 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Without getting into the social politics I simply just think it's bad for the game. It isn't growing the game, as for me, that is done at a grass roots level. Not paying millions more to millionaires.

For those who want to go, great go ahead. I don't have interest in this new league. The extra money they play for doesn't get me excited or make me want to tune in to watch.

+1. I couldn’t care less if I see Phil (or Sergio) play again, but I realize he still has fans. I have no interest in players who defect to a tour backed by “scary mother….”

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The PGA Tour has been consistent in what they have said about members going to actually play in the LIV events. 

Their stance have changed and it isn't a surprise they denied the requests. Members are also not punished for asking release. Added to that anyone can go and play LIV, just don't expect a welcome return. If the grass is really greener and the money is that good then there will be several players that do just go. 

The PGA Tour isn't saying they can't play in LIV at all, they are saying they can't play both at the same time, which I see as being fair. 

NHL players aren't going to play in the KHL at the same time. I know slightly different being teams, but the point remains in my opinion. 

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It seems LIV's (and PGA players) best chance at breaking Monahan's choke-hold is winning the antitrust argument. Now that Monahan has formally exercised his (as some are pointing out) inconsistent decision on exemption requests, I suspect we will soon hear that a lawsuit has been filed... presuming that the courts agree it has sufficient basis.

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Apart from the bigger payout, what’s the attraction of LIV for pro golfers? 

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7 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Without getting into the social politics I simply just think it's bad for the game. It isn't growing the game, as for me, that is done at a grass roots level. Not paying millions more to millionaires.

For those who want to go, great go ahead. I don't have interest in this new league. The extra money they play for doesn't get me excited or make me want to tune in to watch.

Yeah I'm not sure what the draw will be to watch some past their prime golfers (speculation based on what I've heard for guys joining) playing in events that don't have the history and allure of many of the PGA events.  

I'd honestly probably throw on an LPGA or College event before I tuned into this one.  I'm sure those who love to bet on sports would be happy to have more events to bet on, but golf probably isn't the instant gratification most betters are going for compared to games that take a few hours to play vs a whole weekend.

100% agree with your comments on growing the game.  My local muni that only charges $24/$36 for weekend 9/18 hole rounds walking is doing more than more professional level events to grow the game.  

 

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I've heard of any such rumblings, but what about Euro and Asian Tour players who might find this league attractive?  

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7 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

Yeah I'm not sure what the draw will be to watch some past their prime golfers (speculation based on what I've heard for guys joining) playing in events that don't have the history and allure of many of the PGA events.  

I'd honestly probably throw on an LPGA or College event before I tuned into this one.  I'm sure those who love to bet on sports would be happy to have more events to bet on, but golf probably isn't the instant gratification most betters are going for compared to games that take a few hours to play vs a whole weekend.

100% agree with your comments on growing the game.  My local muni that only charges $24/$36 for weekend 9/18 hole rounds walking is doing more than more professional level events to grow the game.  

 

I agree 100% - if growing the professional game is priority, check out what Billy Ho does sponsoring an APGA event. I also heard that Billy goes above and beyond even flying out a player who didn't qualify to play in the pro am and get them in front of sponsors. Make an APGA show for Golf Channel or Netflix that follows these players and the ups and downs of trying to get on tour. Would be way more interesting than seeing 15 players ranked as the 50-100th players in golf battle it out on boring, sub-par courses, for guaranteed millions. Oh, and also, is there even a broadcast deal yet? We might not even get to watch it.

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7 minutes ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

Yeah I'm not sure what the draw will be to watch some past their prime golfers (speculation based on what I've heard for guys joining) playing in events that don't have the history and allure of many of the PGA events.  

I'd honestly probably throw on an LPGA or College event before I tuned into this one.  I'm sure those who love to bet on sports would be happy to have more events to bet on, but golf probably isn't the instant gratification most betters are going for compared to games that take a few hours to play vs a whole weekend.

100% agree with your comments on growing the game.  My local muni that only charges $24/$36 for weekend 9/18 hole rounds walking is doing more than more professional level events to grow the game.  

 

The hope was that guys like DJ, Bryson and some other big name relevant golfers would jump ship and that would of course bring the fans. But whether you believe Norman or not that Phil’s ranting cost them the big names, what they have now with Phil, Sergio, Westwood and the other rumored names are guys who aren’t contending anymore on tour or tried their luck and haven’t had the same success stateside they did on euro tour. Not really a draw for the masses to watch.

Just now, fixyurdivot said:

I've heard of any such rumblings, but what about Euro and Asian Tour players who might find this league attractive?  

The names that would go there from those tours aren’t attracting an audience. Most of the rumored names are pst their prime members like poulter, Westwood and Garcia. Then there’s others who have had some euro success and no pga tour success and aren’t exactly household names that are going to attract the viewing audience away from the pga tour.

So you end up with guys who are chains the dollars and have a better chance at winning an event than they do on their current tours. 
 

There’s basically no draw for the LIV tour at this point from a viewer perspective. If the audience isn’t there products don’t last long or at least don’t operate profitably. Look at the WNBA, without NBA support that league would have collapsed like many of the womens soccer leagues. 

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31 minutes ago, berkeleybob said:

Apart from the bigger payout, what’s the attraction of LIV for pro golfers? 

3 days of golf instead of 4, and the money.  That's about it.  Maybe there are other perks. But at this stage those are unknown.

 

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4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

There’s basically no draw for the LIV tour at this point from a viewer perspective. If the audience isn’t there products don’t last long or at least don’t operate profitably. Look at the WNBA, without NBA support that league would have collapsed like many of the womens soccer leagues. 

The crazy thing here, is that I don't think profitability is really part of the plan.  So from that side,  I don't know that it really matters.

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21 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

The crazy thing here, is that I don't think profitability is really part of the plan.  So from that side,  I don't know that it really matters.

Agree, the saudis have the money to not worry about it, but if they aren’t getting views the “propaganda” or whatever their motive is probably doesn’t get met. I don’t see large crowds going to these events either. Just watch some of the euro now the dp tour their crowds aren’t very large even when there are big name guys in the field.

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Maybe some of these guys want to have their "names" attached to the start of a league (if it succeeds) Either way they get paid and potentially have a legacy that is "the first on tour" or something like that since they didn't actually create it.

For me, could care less. I like the broadcast of the PGA, I don't watch much euro tour or any others. Korn ferry is good too. But much like sports outside of the states (cricket, soccer aka Futbol 🤣) this league I wont be following. Hopefully it potentially makes room for us commoners to get out there and test our luck on tour (not).

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Things some players need to consider is how much majors and Ryder cup matter to them. If they don’t care then probably not a big deal and go get the money. 
 

A suspension from the tour take away the Ryder cup. Not sure what the DP tour will do for it’s members who get suspended by the pga tour.

If suspended from pga tour you are losing FedEx points and world ranking points. If you don’t have exemption into a major you as you drop in ranking you lose out on that qualification, same for wgc events 

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Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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The PGA Tour has some kind of agreement with the DP Tour (Monahan is on the DP Tour board) that includes financial support. Since there is a DP Tour event this week, it's not unprecedented nor unexpected (to me, at least) that exemptions be denied.

Moose, my cat, is Siamese

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22 hours ago, Thin2win said:

3 days of golf instead of 4, and the money.  That's about it.  Maybe there are other perks. But at this stage those are unknown.

 

It's the money first & foremost, but I also think it's the reduced schedule while making the same amount/or more money. This allows them to travel a lot less and spend more time at home with family, which is more important for the older guys. 

Driver: :cobra-small: Speed Zone 9* HZRDUS Smoke Yellow Shaft

3 Wood: :cobra-small: King Speedzone 13.5* HZRDUS Smoke Black Shaft

2 & 3 Hybrids: :cobra-small: Speedzone Recoil 480 ESX Shaft

Irons: :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-GW Recoil 460 ESX Shafts

Wedges::callaway-logo-1: PM Grind 54* & 58*

Putter: :odyssey-small: Dual Force Rossi II

Ball: Whatever I find in the woods

:Arccos:

HCP:18

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On 5/11/2022 at 8:09 AM, Middler said:

+1. I couldn’t care less if I see Phil (or Sergio) play again, but I realize he still has fans. I have no interest in players who defect to a tour backed by “scary mother….”

Totally in agreement and especially Sergio after his last rules blow-up. 

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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23 hours ago, Thin2win said:

3 days of golf instead of 4, and the money.  That's about it.  Maybe there are other perks. But at this stage those are unknown.

 

I heard they're 'no cut' events but haven't seen much detail. 

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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4 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

I heard they're 'no cut' events but haven't seen much detail. 

That's correct. Entire field gets paid. Which i can see being attractive. Still all of these guys are done lucky to be playing golf for their profession. A spot many of us would swap to do even if it was just PGA events. I'm sure many know how lucky they are as well. I don't fault them for wanting to make more money. I think most wouldn't mind getting extra to assist us. However RMac said it pretty good. He is happy, has a good going, ankle to sort his family, has clothing and living a good life all because he is good at a sport he loves.

 

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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On 5/11/2022 at 9:28 AM, fixyurdivot said:

I've heard of any such rumblings, but what about Euro and Asian Tour players who might find this league attractive?  

Do you watch those tours? LIV might take away from Euro and Asian viewers, if their best players defect, but I'll be surprised if Americans flock to view LIV tournaments. I watch to see great golf, I'm never aware of how much they're playing for unless one of the talking heads mentions it, and even then it doesn't change what we see. Great (all for that matter) players are going to try to win every tournament they're in, no matter what the purse is.

  • Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize
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