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Are todays newest graphic shafts really better than what we had 20 years ago?


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I recently purchased a used driver with a Project X shaft in it. It is the factory installed shaft, not an after market shaft.  In the last 5 or 6 years I have been told or read that todays graphite shaft are so much better made that SST Puring or Spine and FLO alignment is no longer needed with these newer shafts.  That is what I've been told and what I saw when watching recent videos on the subject.  So I decided to see for myself just how good these new shafts really are that come in todays OEM drivers.  For the record, I have two sets of irons with Project X shafts in them and I like both sets very much, so I'm not saying Project X shaft made by Trie Temper of good or bad. What I am doing is checking to see IF these new shafts are really that much better than what I could buy 20 years ago.

Others are saying that NEW shafts make today do not need Puring or Spine and FLO alignment to get them to perform well, they are just that much better now. 

My test was done with this Project X shaft in the driver head with the hosel set at the factory standard settings.  I set the club in my vise with the face vertical and then did the standard FLO alignment test on the club. What I found was that this shaft was by far " The worse" shaft I have ever tested for FLO alignment, and it was so bad it would have been funny if it had not been the shaft I was going to have my wife use in her new driver. In the 19 years that I have been doing FLO alignment testing shafts, this is without a doubt the worse shaft I have ever tested. And in those years I have tested shafts that cost as little as $25 and as high as $500, and nove were this bad. And this is what some people are telling me are high dollar shafts, the same shafts as what the after market shaft companies are selling for $250 to $350 a shaft. Well, if this is what the OEM's are telling golfers is a high quality shaft they are just marketing ploys and NOT the truth at all. 

After testing this shaft I now know why the previous owner wanted to sell the driver. As bad as this shaft did in my FLO test I can't help but think the drivret was about useless on the course for the guy. But before I throw it in the garbage I'll take the driver to the range and test the shaft and see what I get and what my wife will get with this shaft. Then it will either get tossed or sold so some one looking for a Projext X shaft. 

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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Not sure why other than boredom that I’m even replying.

Better in what means. We have to define what we are going to measure as the baseline.

If by quality then yes, in pretty much every way they are better due to better materials, improved QC processes and increased knowledge by the designers and their work with club manufacturers.

If going how one matches up to another purely based on a process of flo’ing then that’s a matter of personal preference and if one thinks flo’ing matters which pretty much every shaft company right now states isn’t needed and all recommend playing label down. Also in testing by places like TXG that flo’ing doesn’t guarantee better performance and there’s enough discussion around the internet about flo’ing and sst pureing of a shaft that it’s more snake oil than beneficial. Also saying one shaft is out of alignment compared to another within actually hitting them side by side and comparing performance also doesn’t say anything about one being better than the other.

If going of how a shaft performs there’s not measure of one being better than the other because a shaft will perform differently for every golfer. For some it may work better than an older shaft, for others is may not. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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And if the process of flo’ing or sst pureing were guarantees of better performance on the course every pga tour pro would do it with their clubs and that’s not the case.

Theres plenty of videos of guys like DJ, Rory and others clubs being built on the tour van and zero of them being flo’d or pure’d

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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100% Yes. I won't even go into the degrees of better and just say yes, they are.

As far as puring goes, I agree with @RickyBobby_PR no need to re-state his thoughts.

 

  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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Once again you are posting only what you were told or heard, NOT what you have found to be the truth based on your own hands on testing. If you want to believe what you hear and what the shaft companies tell you, then feel free to believe their lies. Do you really expect that the shaft companies would tell millions of golfers that their latest and greatest shafts NEED to be SST Pured or spine and FLO aligned to get them to perform well? Do you really think the shaft company owners at that stupid to say such a thing about their own products?   Again, feel free to believe their hype and don't go by test results that tell a different story.  

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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1 minute ago, bens197 said:

100% Yes. I won't even go into the degrees of better and just say yes, they are.

As far as puring goes, I agree with @RickyBobby_PR no need to re-state his thoughts.

 

Do you have any test results that you got from your own testing? Or are you just repeating what others have told you based of what the shaft companies are telling them?  If you are just repeating what others say, then you might want to go to TPT's websire and see what that shaft company has to say about how their shafts FLO and how others don't, and what if means to performance on the finished clubs.  

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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5 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

Once again you are posting only what you were told or heard, NOT what you have found to be the truth based on your own hands on testing. If you want to believe what you hear and what the shaft companies tell you, then feel free to believe their lies. Do you really expect that the shaft companies would tell millions of golfers that their latest and greatest shafts NEED to be SST Pured or spine and FLO aligned to get them to perform well? Do you really think the shaft company owners at that stupid to say such a thing about their own products?   Again, feel free to believe their hype and don't go by test results that tell a different story.  

FYI. RickyBobby has had acces to multiple OEM R&D people where he has heard and seen first hand just about anything you need to know on shafts.  He has been in the factory when they are being made and has actually had the chance to make his own shaft 

So your assumption of him getting marketing speak is off base.  I’ll gocwont his first hand experience.

He mentioned TXG. I have spent a half day with Ian and talked about so many aspects of golf.    He has done the testing of shafts that have been flo’d and not.

So again first hand experience of one of the most experienced fitters in the business.

 

 

:ping-small: G430 Max 10K 

:titelist-small: TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g

:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

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Once again YOU repeat what others have told you and NOT what you have learned from hands on testing of shafts.  Have YOU gone to the TPT site and looked at their hands on test results? Test results that do NOT agree with you have been told by the other shaft companies who only claim to make better shaft that do not need Puring, when if fact there are tests that show their claims to be false.  

 I've done my own tests and by test results tell me the factory shafts do need Spine and FLO alignment to perform at their max potential. But I guess my test results don't mean anything to you because they are MY test results and not what the big shaft compaiy is telling you. As I stated before, feel free to believe what they tell you and don't worry about what I'm stating to be true. This is NOT the first time no one on this site believes what I post, so I'm not surprised at all with your opinions. 

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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Hypocrisy at its finest. 
 

You cant use what shaft companies say, do your own testing but go look and read tpt’s test results cuz I agree with them!

Enough is enough

 

 

 

 

What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag

Driver:    :cobra-small: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45”

Fairway: :srixon-small: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5”

 :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Driving Iron: :ping-small: Rapture 2-Iron 

Irons: :edel-golf-1: SMS Pros 4-PW with Steelfiber I95s 

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50* T grind with Steelfiber i110s

               :ping-small: Glide 4.0 46* zz wedge shaft

               :ping-small: Glide 4.0 E grind 54* zz wedge shaft

Putters: :L.A.B.: Mezz.1 34” 69* lie

              :EVNROLL: EV5.1 black 33.5” 69* lie

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21 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

Once again you are posting only what you were told or heard, NOT what you have found to be the truth based on your own hands on testing. If you want to believe what you hear and what the shaft companies tell you, then feel free to believe their lies. Do you really expect that the shaft companies would tell millions of golfers that their latest and greatest shafts NEED to be SST Pured or spine and FLO aligned to get them to perform well? Do you really think the shaft company owners at that stupid to say such a thing about their own products?   Again, feel free to believe their hype and don't go by test results that tell a different story.  

Again there’s enough conversation and videos showing that there is no guarantee the process makes any improvement. Therefore I have made the concision decision to not spend money on a process that doesn’t gurantee better performance. If it works better for you then that’s awesome and congrats.

As mentioned numerous times in other threads I have been to both PX and UST. I have seen the design process used for shafts, the process for making shafts and how they go from the rolling table thru to paint and then drying. This also includes hand rolling my own 1:1 shaft and comparing that to both the test shaft I received from PX prior to my visit as well as comparing the shaft I rolled agains the shaft that one of the Px shaft makers rolled. Performance was equal across all 3 shafts.

I have been fit numerous times and in different shafts across numerous brands over the last 20 years. I know what shafts work for me and what don’t and have great success with shafts that have come straight from the factory.

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Just so YOU know, I have talked to the president of SST Puring, right after he got back from spending over a month working the PGA Tour Van. And guess what? He told me the exact opposite of what have been told about shafts and Puring. And he also told me HE was three building clubs for those Tour players, and YES, they were SST Puring the shafts on about 90% of those clubs. So what does this mean for what you have heard from the shaft companies that claim their shafts don't need Puting? You decide.  

And I have also talked to the head shaft designer at TPT shaft company. And their test data shows that what you have heard and have posted here is false info designed to convince the agerage golfer their shafts are bettet than they really are. 

But I'm sure you don't believe me this time either. 

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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3 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

Just so YOU know, I have talked to the president of SST Puring, right after he got back from spending over a month working the PGA Tour Van. And guess what? He told me the exact opposite of what have been told about shafts and Puring. And he also told me HE was three building clubs for those Tour players, and YES, they were SST Puring the shafts on about 90% of those clubs. So what does this mean for what you have heard from the shaft companies that claim their shafts don't need Puting? You decide.  

And I have also talked to the head shaft designer at TPT shaft company. And their test data shows that what you have heard and have posted here is false info designed to convince the agerage golfer their shafts are bettet than they really are. 

But I'm sure you don't believe me this time either. 

So it’s ok for you to talk with the guy who’s selling the product and a shaft company and go by what they say yet when everyone else does it we are wrong.  
 

Can you be anymore of a hypocrite.

When you are constantly alone on every subject the problem probably isn’t the rest of the forum 

Again if it was a guarantee then why wouldn’t it be 100% of the tour. Also what year was this supposed conversation?

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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2 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

Hypocrisy at its finest. 
 

You cant use what shaft companies say, do your own testing but go look and read tpt’s test results cuz I agree with them!

Enough is enough

 

Hi Blackngold_blood.  Does this mean you believe me?  If so you are one of the few that do. When I do my own testing and post my results, all I get is I get told I'm wrong. Funny how that happens a lot here. 

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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As with everything in golf it may be great for some and not for others.   I can find evaluations that say is works:

https://pluggedingolf.com/does-pureing-a-shaft-improve-performance-golf-myths-unplugged/#:~:text=The Results,clubs had the same loft!

your testing and some of the club tinkerers that are MGS testers. 

And some that say minimal to no impact:

https://www.milesofgolf.com/testing-performance-drivers-with-pured-shafts/

 

I am pretty sure this was on MGS' lab test list pre COVID and I don't know where it falls on the list anymore.   I would personally love to try PURED/flo'd shafts to see if there is any impact or if it is a mental thing as I haven't seen any definitive evidence that it works in all cases (see above results).   I am looking forward to seeing your launch monitor data with a shaft that has been tested in the non PURED position and then again in the PURED position.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

So it’s ok for you to talk with the guy who’s selling the product and a shaft company and go by what they say yet when everyone else does it we are wrong.  
 

Can you be anymore of a hypocrite.

When you are constantly alone on every subject the problem probably isn’t the rest of the forum 

Good point RicdyBobby: The difference is that I did my own tests, and my tests "AGREE" with what I was told by the head of the two companies I mentioned.  There is a BIG difference between what you are being told and what I have "TESTED" and found to be true. Can you believe that? 

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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5 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

Good point RicdyBobby: The difference is that I did my own tests, and my tests "AGREE" with what I was told by the head of the two companies I mentioned.  There is a BIG difference between what you are being told and what I have "TESTED" and found to be true. Can you believe that? 

I’m not saying it don’t believe you that it works for you. That’s awesome that it worked for you. There are plenty of threads across golf forums, Facebook groups, YouTube of people doing testing and it not give ing any improvement in performance. So once again it’s a process that isn’t a guarantee of having any improvement on performance. 

I’ve been fit by guys that have worked on tour and by oem experts. In my fitting with UST with a shaft that came directly from the plant in Texas my launch numbers were optimized for my swing. And the shaft performed the same on course as it did on the range during the fitting. 

In your testing what performance improvement did you have with the shaft after it went thru the process compared to how it performed for you on the course before hand?

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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10 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

Hi Blackngold_blood.  Does this mean you believe me?  If so you are one of the few that do. When I do my own testing and post my results, all I get is I get told I'm wrong. Funny how that happens a lot here. 

I 100% dont believe you. You tell people not to go by what others say but then go and talk about the president of a company and a shaft company that you agree with. That’s hypocrisy. You can’t have it both ways. If nobody else can use what others say, then keep what others have done and said out your mouth as well. 
 

I’ll go with several well respected people over the President of a company, 1 shaft company, and a guy claiming test results. 

 

 

 

What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag

Driver:    :cobra-small: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45”

Fairway: :srixon-small: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5”

 :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Driving Iron: :ping-small: Rapture 2-Iron 

Irons: :edel-golf-1: SMS Pros 4-PW with Steelfiber I95s 

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50* T grind with Steelfiber i110s

               :ping-small: Glide 4.0 46* zz wedge shaft

               :ping-small: Glide 4.0 E grind 54* zz wedge shaft

Putters: :L.A.B.: Mezz.1 34” 69* lie

              :EVNROLL: EV5.1 black 33.5” 69* lie

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20 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

 When I do my own testing and post my results, all I get is I get told I'm wrong. Funny how that happens a lot here. 

IMO, what is different is that you translate your personal results into a statement on what everyone should do.  It is great that you find things that work for you or even other golfers that you build equipment for but that doesn't mean it is right for me.   It could also be that there is a built in bias to your testing since it isn't done blindly and you know what you are hitting prior to the test.  Based on reading your first post in this thread I have a pretty good idea on what your results are going to be.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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5 minutes ago, cnosil said:

As with everything in golf it may be great for some and not for others.   I can find evaluations that say is works:

https://pluggedingolf.com/does-pureing-a-shaft-improve-performance-golf-myths-unplugged/#:~:text=The Results,clubs had the same loft!

your testing and some of the club tinkerers that are MGS testers. 

And some that say minimal to no impact:

https://www.milesofgolf.com/testing-performance-drivers-with-pured-shafts/

So you know I watched that video months ago, and the test was NOT a very good test at all. They tested one shaft that was Pured and one the wan not. That kind of test does not prove much at all. And after I watched that TXG video I sent a message to Ian and told him how the test could have been done a lot better and he has failed to get back to me on it.  What Ian should have done was "EXACTLT" what you mentioned above, They should have teste the Pured shaft when it was aligned correctly and then again when the shaft was rotated away from that alignment. That would have been a much better test. But they failed to do that, and that is why I'm saying their test was no worth much.  For that type of test they would have needed to use a different driver if my menory is correct. I believe they used a Callaway Mavrik driver for the test, and with a Callaway driver you do NOT rotate the shaft when makeing hosel adjustment. Maybe nest time they could use a TM driver and rotate the shaft and do a better test. 

I am pretty sure this was on MGS' lab test list pre COVID and I don't know where it falls on the list anymore.   I would personally love to try PURED/flo'd shafts to see if there is any impact or if it is a mental thing as I haven't seen any definitive evidence that it works in all cases (see above results).   I am looking forward to seeing your launch monitor data with a shaft that has been tested in the non PURED position and then again in the PURED position.  

 

8 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’m not saying it don’t believe you that it works for you. That’s awesome that it worked for you. There are plenty of threads across golf forums, Facebook groups, YouTube of people doing testing and it not give ing any improvement in performance. So once again it’s a process that isn’t a guarantee of having any improvement on performance. 

I’ve been fit by guys that have worked on tour and by oem experts. In my fitting with UST with a shaft that came directly from the plant in Texas my launch numbers were optimized for my swing. And the shaft performed the same on course as it did on the range during the fitting. 

In your testing what performance improvement did you have with the shaft after it went thru the process compared to how it performed for you on the course before hand?

Here is my reply to your excellent question.  I tested a use driver at Golfsmith on their launch monitor. Two drivers in fact. Both drivers were the exact same make and model, same shaft and seme flex. Only difference was one driver was "BEAT UP" and the other was like "NEW". When I hit the beat up driver I got nice straight ball flight just about every time, NOT every time as I"m NOT perfect. Then I hit the LIke New driver and EVERY ball I hit was  great big "SLICE: The club was so bad I stated to call it the "Veg-A-Matic, as it could sliece anything put in front of it.  The two driver were marked at a decent price, especially the beat up one, so I decide to buy BOTH and do a test to see if my beliefs were correct. When I got home I pulled the shaft from the like new driver and did a 'spine and FLO alignment on the shaft, then re-installed it back into the head and went back to Golfsmith to repeat the drill on the launch monitor.  And just as I expected, the Vet-A-Matice was NOT a big slice machine anymore. I was getting the same straight ball flight I was getting with the old beat up driver I tested two days before. My BET is that the beat up driver was beat up because it was a fairway finder and it got HIT A LOT. I'd also bet money that the like new driver looks like new because it was a "Slice Machine, and it never made it into anyone's bag. 

WAs that a good enough test for you? Two drivers same in every way except one was about worn out and the other was like new. One was a slicer and one was a fairway finder when I purchased them. After I Spine and FLO aligned the slicer shaft it became  a fairway finder just like it's cousin. That was just ONE test that I have done on shafts and every time I tested a Spine and FLO aligned shaft I get good results. I only wish I could say the same for clubs that were not Spine and FLO aligned. And this is NOT just MY test results, This is what my customers have been telling me about their clubs AFTER I do the alignment work on their clubs. They ALL tell me the clubs perform much better AFTER the alignment was done, and they tell me it was well worth the money I charge them to do the work. Which was $35 in total if you care to know the cost. 

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

IMO, what is different is that you translate your personal results into a statement on what everyone should do.  It is great that you find things that work for you or even other golfers that you build equipment for but that doesn't mean it is right for me.   It could also be that there is a built in bias to your testing since it isn't done blindly and you know what you are hitting prior to the test.  Based on reading your first post in this thread I have a pretty good idea on what your results are going to be.  

IF it was ONLY my test results, then you would have a fair reason to not agree with me. But when it is the test results of every golfer that I have done the shaft alignment work on their clubs that say the same thing, I think that makes a BIG difference. My testing is my testing. But when every other golfer that did their own testing on the course say the exact same thing. I'm going to believe my customers over what some shaft company told you and me and my customers. My customers learned the truty, why can't you? 

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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3 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

Two drivers same in every way except one was about worn out and the other was like new

Here is another possibly untrue sentence trying to be stated as fact. Those 2 heads could have different lofts, lies, face angles, ct, and even cg locations. 

 

 

 

What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag

Driver:    :cobra-small: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45”

Fairway: :srixon-small: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5”

 :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Driving Iron: :ping-small: Rapture 2-Iron 

Irons: :edel-golf-1: SMS Pros 4-PW with Steelfiber I95s 

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50* T grind with Steelfiber i110s

               :ping-small: Glide 4.0 46* zz wedge shaft

               :ping-small: Glide 4.0 E grind 54* zz wedge shaft

Putters: :L.A.B.: Mezz.1 34” 69* lie

              :EVNROLL: EV5.1 black 33.5” 69* lie

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7 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

 

Here is my reply to your excellent question.  I tested a use driver at Golfsmith on their launch monitor. Two drivers in fact. Both drivers were the exact same make and model, same shaft and seme flex. Only difference was one driver was "BEAT UP" and the other was like "NEW". When I hit the beat up driver I got nice straight ball flight just about every time, NOT every time as I"m NOT perfect. Then I hit the LIke New driver and EVERY ball I hit was  great big "SLICE: The club was so bad I stated to call it the "Veg-A-Matic, as it could sliece anything put in front of it.  The two driver were marked at a decent price, especially the beat up one, so I decide to buy BOTH and do a test to see if my beliefs were correct. When I got home I pulled the shaft from the like new driver and did a 'spine and FLO alignment on the shaft, then re-installed it back into the head and went back to Golfsmith to repeat the drill on the launch monitor.  And just as I expected, the Vet-A-Matice was NOT a big slice machine anymore. I was getting the same straight ball flight I was getting with the old beat up driver I tested two days before. My BET is that the beat up driver was beat up because it was a fairway finder and it got HIT A LOT. I'd also bet money that the like new driver looks like new because it was a "Slice Machine, and it never made it into anyone's bag. 

WAs that a good enough test for you? Two drivers same in every way except one was about worn out and the other was like new. One was a slicer and one was a fairway finder when I purchased them. After I Spine and FLO aligned the slicer shaft it became  a fairway finder just like it's cousin. That was just ONE test that I have done on shafts and every time I tested a Spine and FLO aligned shaft I get good results. I only wish I could say the same for clubs that were not Spine and FLO aligned. And this is NOT just MY test results, This is what my customers have been telling me about their clubs AFTER I do the alignment work on their clubs. They ALL tell me the clubs perform much better AFTER the alignment was done, and they tell me it was well worth the money I charge them to do the work. Which was $35 in total if you care to know the cost. 

That’s awesome that you were able to improve dispersion thru improved ball flight. The majority of clubs I have used have either been purchased after a fitting or at least been thru me spending sometime on the range testing head and shaft combos. So pretty similar to the testing you do. I buy and play combos that give me either optimal ball flight or close to it since I am able to self fit myself based on my gained experience and knowledge of club fitting. The clubs perform exactly as I prefer and I don’t have any issues with the clubs that get ordered vs the ones I was fit with.

Thats good that others you work with see results but there are plenty of others who don’t see any performance improvement in their testing. 

I have piece of mind thru my own testing and fitting that what I’m putting in my bag will work for me on the course.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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cnosil.  Sorry to post twice in my answer to your qeustion. but I forgot to mention the difference in "Ball Impact" on the club face between a FLO aligned shaft and a non aligned shaft. The difference is quite easy to see when a good golfer is hitting the club. When I hit balls with my driver, I always use Impact Wax on the face of the driver so I know where I'm hitting the ball and when I miss the sweet spot. In both my tests and those of others, the impact area with a FLO aligned shaft is much smaller that with the now aligned shaft. That smaller impact pattern on the face of the club translates of better ball striking and I think most of use here will agree that better ball striking usually means more fairways hit and more consistent ball flight off the tee. Hopefully you can see how better ball striking and a tighter impact pattern on the face of a club is a good thing. I hope I've answered you question now. 

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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Spine and flo of shafts is an unsettled process in the golf industry with people on both sides having their own experience whether good or bad. This results in it not being a guarantee that everyone will see a benefit of any kind. If someone believes in it and wants to spend their money based on their past experiences with the process, more power to them. If it works then great. If others choose to not do It because in whatever testing they’ve done they concluded it’s not necessary or the bang for the buck isn’t there, great, more power to them.

But to say shafts from years ago are better or worse purely on these process tells us nothing and each person should test shafts and clubs themselves and find what works for them 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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5 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That’s awesome that you were able to improve dispersion thru improved ball flight. The majority of clubs I have used have either been purchased after a fitting or at least been thru me spending sometime on the range testing head and shaft combos. So pretty similar to the testing you do. I buy and play combos that give me either optimal ball flight or close to it since I am able to self fit myself based on my gained experience and knowledge of club fitting. The clubs perform exactly as I prefer and I don’t have any issues with the clubs that get ordered vs the ones I was fit with.

Thats good that others you work with see results but there are plenty of others who don’t see any performance improvement in their testing. 

I have piece of mind thru my own testing and fitting that what I’m putting in my bag will work for me on the course.

Botton line here Ricky is that when I aligned the slicing drivers shaft and it went from a slice machine to a stright ball flight machine didn't mean anything to YOU. I took a piece of useless garbage and turned it into a prefectly good driver, and it means "nothing" to you. If that case I know I'm wasting my time with you and anyone that says the same things you do. Sorry I waste your time and mine both, I'll NOT do it again you can be sure. 

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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4 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

IF it was ONLY my test results, then you would have a fair reason to not agree with me. But when it is the test results of every golfer that I have done the shaft alignment work on their clubs that say the same thing, I think that makes a BIG difference. My testing is my testing. But when every other golfer that did their own testing on the course say the exact same thing. I'm going to believe my customers over what some shaft company told you and me and my customers. My customers learned the truty, why can't you? 

I provided sources that showed the opposite of what your tests showed as well as sources that agreed;  what we keep hearing is that because what you did says one thing we must believe you and only the sources that agree with you.     In my mind; since I haven't done any testing of PUREING,  my opinion is that it can't hurt because if it does nothing I am no worse off but if it helps I am better off.   

I am looking forward to seeing your detailed launch monitor data that shows the before and after numbers to include things like ball speed, launch angles,  path, angle of attack, carry distance, dispersion patterns to show actual improvement data.    

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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 If others choose to not do It because in whatever testing they’ve done they concluded it’s not necessary or the bang for the buck isn’t there, great, more power to them.    

I see one big problem with what you just posted. DO the golfer DO their OWN testing? Or do they read what others say and go on faith that what they read or hear is true?  YOU just posted what YOU believe, and thats fine. But does that make what YOU posted the truth? Or just what you heard or read somewhere?  

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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23 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

Here is another possibly untrue sentence trying to be stated as fact. Those 2 heads could have different lofts, lies, face angles, ct, and even cg locations. 

Sorry guy, but when I posted exact same I meant it. Same make and model shaft. Same weight. Same flex. Same loft on the head. They are NON adjustable drivers, so the lie and face angles were as exact as the factory specs allow.  Nice try to shoot holes in my test results but you missed the mark on ALL counts. Sorry. 

Why is it so hard for you and other here to believe that Spine and FLO alignment works?  Maybe , Just maybe, If you were to try a properly aligned shaft in a driver  you would find out that I'm correct and you could stop dis-agreeing with me on this. DO you own test and then get back to me with YOUR findings. Is that too much to ask of you? 

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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Okay Cnosil.   here is your chance to do exact what you asked for.. How about this?  Why don't you send me a shaft and I'll do the Spine and FLO alignment of the shaft and if you send me the hosel adppter for your driver. I will install the shaft in the adapter and send it back to you so YOU can do your OWN testing?  Are YOU willing to put your money where your mouth is?  You show in your bio that you have a Ping G400 driver. That will do for this test. So you know, what I do when installing a shaft sleeve on a shaft, is that I first install the adapter in the head and then install the shaft into the apapter, so I know for a fact that the shaft is installed correctly. This would allow YOU the chance to try a properly FLO aligned shaft in YOUR driver and then allow you to rotate the shaft to a different setting and see what happens in YOUR hands, NOT mine.  Is this sometiime you would be willing to do? Put your money where your mouth is?  I have a Ping G driver, but NOT a Ping G400, so I'll have to double check to make sure they use the same adapter. If not you would have to send me the head as well to get the shaft installed correctly in the adapter so the shaft is properly FLO aligned in the head for you. 
 
Are you up for my challenge? Let me know if you are and we can find out what if fact and what is what others are saying. Up to you. Cost would be $40 for my labor and you pay the shipping both ways if you are up for a challenge. 

 

I am pretty sure this was on MGS' lab test list pre COVID and I don't know where it falls on the list anymore.   I would personally love to try PURED/flo'd shafts to see if there is any impact or if it is a mental thing as I haven't seen any definitive evidence that it works in all cases

All my clubs are custom built with aftermarket shafts that have been spine and FLO aligned for max performance every swing. 

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47 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

Botton line here Ricky is that when I aligned the slicing drivers shaft and it went from a slice machine to a stright ball flight machine didn't mean anything to YOU. I took a piece of useless garbage and turned it into a prefectly good driver, and it means "nothing" to you. If that case I know I'm wasting my time with you and anyone that says the same things you do. Sorry I waste your time and mine both, I'll NOT do it again you can be sure. 

You literally chose not To read that I said it’s awesome you were able to improve dispersion thru improved ball flight. Literally telling you that you had a better setup. just want to argue to argue at this point. 

42 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

 If others choose to not do It because in whatever testing they’ve done they concluded it’s not necessary or the bang for the buck isn’t there, great, more power to them.    

I see one big problem with what you just posted. DO the golfer DO their OWN testing? Or do they read what others say and go on faith that what they read or hear is true?  YOU just posted what YOU believe, and thats fine. But does that make what YOU posted the truth? Or just what you heard or read somewhere?  

Again you choosing to ignore what’s been written in several posts of not only me doing my own testing but that there are threads across the internet where people have done their own testing and found that it provided no benefit. 
 

You are looking to argue for the sake of argument and ignoring what’s written.

It’s awesome for you that you had the experience of a process improving the performance of a diver for you and continue to use it his day even if you don’t do any testing of new shafts before you apply these process to them. Also gear that others you worked with have had success 

but as usual you want everyone to agree with you and want to put down and discredit everyone else’s opinion and experiences as well the info they provide. I’m out

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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