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Are todays newest graphic shafts really better than what we had 20 years ago?


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3 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

Two drivers same in every way except one was about worn out and the other was like new

Here is another possibly untrue sentence trying to be stated as fact. Those 2 heads could have different lofts, lies, face angles, ct, and even cg locations. 

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What is in my Bag Boy Revolver

Driver:    PXG Gen2 0811x 10.5* set to small + with a VA Composites Nemesys 55s @ 44.75"

Fairway:  :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Irons: Testing the Titleist T200 irons 4-W2 with Project X LZ 5.5 shaft -1/2" and 1* Up

Wedge: Titleist SM7 56* with Project X LZ 5.0 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Custom Futura X5 flow neck with a UST Frequency Filtered shaft -1" with a SS wristlock grip

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7 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

 

Here is my reply to your excellent question.  I tested a use driver at Golfsmith on their launch monitor. Two drivers in fact. Both drivers were the exact same make and model, same shaft and seme flex. Only difference was one driver was "BEAT UP" and the other was like "NEW". When I hit the beat up driver I got nice straight ball flight just about every time, NOT every time as I"m NOT perfect. Then I hit the LIke New driver and EVERY ball I hit was  great big "SLICE: The club was so bad I stated to call it the "Veg-A-Matic, as it could sliece anything put in front of it.  The two driver were marked at a decent price, especially the beat up one, so I decide to buy BOTH and do a test to see if my beliefs were correct. When I got home I pulled the shaft from the like new driver and did a 'spine and FLO alignment on the shaft, then re-installed it back into the head and went back to Golfsmith to repeat the drill on the launch monitor.  And just as I expected, the Vet-A-Matice was NOT a big slice machine anymore. I was getting the same straight ball flight I was getting with the old beat up driver I tested two days before. My BET is that the beat up driver was beat up because it was a fairway finder and it got HIT A LOT. I'd also bet money that the like new driver looks like new because it was a "Slice Machine, and it never made it into anyone's bag. 

WAs that a good enough test for you? Two drivers same in every way except one was about worn out and the other was like new. One was a slicer and one was a fairway finder when I purchased them. After I Spine and FLO aligned the slicer shaft it became  a fairway finder just like it's cousin. That was just ONE test that I have done on shafts and every time I tested a Spine and FLO aligned shaft I get good results. I only wish I could say the same for clubs that were not Spine and FLO aligned. And this is NOT just MY test results, This is what my customers have been telling me about their clubs AFTER I do the alignment work on their clubs. They ALL tell me the clubs perform much better AFTER the alignment was done, and they tell me it was well worth the money I charge them to do the work. Which was $35 in total if you care to know the cost. 

That’s awesome that you were able to improve dispersion thru improved ball flight. The majority of clubs I have used have either been purchased after a fitting or at least been thru me spending sometime on the range testing head and shaft combos. So pretty similar to the testing you do. I buy and play combos that give me either optimal ball flight or close to it since I am able to self fit myself based on my gained experience and knowledge of club fitting. The clubs perform exactly as I prefer and I don’t have any issues with the clubs that get ordered vs the ones I was fit with.

Thats good that others you work with see results but there are plenty of others who don’t see any performance improvement in their testing. 

I have piece of mind thru my own testing and fitting that what I’m putting in my bag will work for me on the course.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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cnosil.  Sorry to post twice in my answer to your qeustion. but I forgot to mention the difference in "Ball Impact" on the club face between a FLO aligned shaft and a non aligned shaft. The difference is quite easy to see when a good golfer is hitting the club. When I hit balls with my driver, I always use Impact Wax on the face of the driver so I know where I'm hitting the ball and when I miss the sweet spot. In both my tests and those of others, the impact area with a FLO aligned shaft is much smaller that with the now aligned shaft. That smaller impact pattern on the face of the club translates of better ball striking and I think most of use here will agree that better ball striking usually means more fairways hit and more consistent ball flight off the tee. Hopefully you can see how better ball striking and a tighter impact pattern on the face of a club is a good thing. I hope I've answered you question now. 

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Spine and flo of shafts is an unsettled process in the golf industry with people on both sides having their own experience whether good or bad. This results in it not being a guarantee that everyone will see a benefit of any kind. If someone believes in it and wants to spend their money based on their past experiences with the process, more power to them. If it works then great. If others choose to not do It because in whatever testing they’ve done they concluded it’s not necessary or the bang for the buck isn’t there, great, more power to them.

But to say shafts from years ago are better or worse purely on these process tells us nothing and each person should test shafts and clubs themselves and find what works for them 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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5 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That’s awesome that you were able to improve dispersion thru improved ball flight. The majority of clubs I have used have either been purchased after a fitting or at least been thru me spending sometime on the range testing head and shaft combos. So pretty similar to the testing you do. I buy and play combos that give me either optimal ball flight or close to it since I am able to self fit myself based on my gained experience and knowledge of club fitting. The clubs perform exactly as I prefer and I don’t have any issues with the clubs that get ordered vs the ones I was fit with.

Thats good that others you work with see results but there are plenty of others who don’t see any performance improvement in their testing. 

I have piece of mind thru my own testing and fitting that what I’m putting in my bag will work for me on the course.

Botton line here Ricky is that when I aligned the slicing drivers shaft and it went from a slice machine to a stright ball flight machine didn't mean anything to YOU. I took a piece of useless garbage and turned it into a prefectly good driver, and it means "nothing" to you. If that case I know I'm wasting my time with you and anyone that says the same things you do. Sorry I waste your time and mine both, I'll NOT do it again you can be sure. 

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4 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

IF it was ONLY my test results, then you would have a fair reason to not agree with me. But when it is the test results of every golfer that I have done the shaft alignment work on their clubs that say the same thing, I think that makes a BIG difference. My testing is my testing. But when every other golfer that did their own testing on the course say the exact same thing. I'm going to believe my customers over what some shaft company told you and me and my customers. My customers learned the truty, why can't you? 

I provided sources that showed the opposite of what your tests showed as well as sources that agreed;  what we keep hearing is that because what you did says one thing we must believe you and only the sources that agree with you.     In my mind; since I haven't done any testing of PUREING,  my opinion is that it can't hurt because if it does nothing I am no worse off but if it helps I am better off.   

I am looking forward to seeing your detailed launch monitor data that shows the before and after numbers to include things like ball speed, launch angles,  path, angle of attack, carry distance, dispersion patterns to show actual improvement data.    

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter: Auditions ongoing 

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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 If others choose to not do It because in whatever testing they’ve done they concluded it’s not necessary or the bang for the buck isn’t there, great, more power to them.    

I see one big problem with what you just posted. DO the golfer DO their OWN testing? Or do they read what others say and go on faith that what they read or hear is true?  YOU just posted what YOU believe, and thats fine. But does that make what YOU posted the truth? Or just what you heard or read somewhere?  

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23 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

Here is another possibly untrue sentence trying to be stated as fact. Those 2 heads could have different lofts, lies, face angles, ct, and even cg locations. 

Sorry guy, but when I posted exact same I meant it. Same make and model shaft. Same weight. Same flex. Same loft on the head. They are NON adjustable drivers, so the lie and face angles were as exact as the factory specs allow.  Nice try to shoot holes in my test results but you missed the mark on ALL counts. Sorry. 

Why is it so hard for you and other here to believe that Spine and FLO alignment works?  Maybe , Just maybe, If you were to try a properly aligned shaft in a driver  you would find out that I'm correct and you could stop dis-agreeing with me on this. DO you own test and then get back to me with YOUR findings. Is that too much to ask of you? 

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Okay Cnosil.   here is your chance to do exact what you asked for.. How about this?  Why don't you send me a shaft and I'll do the Spine and FLO alignment of the shaft and if you send me the hosel adppter for your driver. I will install the shaft in the adapter and send it back to you so YOU can do your OWN testing?  Are YOU willing to put your money where your mouth is?  You show in your bio that you have a Ping G400 driver. That will do for this test. So you know, what I do when installing a shaft sleeve on a shaft, is that I first install the adapter in the head and then install the shaft into the apapter, so I know for a fact that the shaft is installed correctly. This would allow YOU the chance to try a properly FLO aligned shaft in YOUR driver and then allow you to rotate the shaft to a different setting and see what happens in YOUR hands, NOT mine.  Is this sometiime you would be willing to do? Put your money where your mouth is?  I have a Ping G driver, but NOT a Ping G400, so I'll have to double check to make sure they use the same adapter. If not you would have to send me the head as well to get the shaft installed correctly in the adapter so the shaft is properly FLO aligned in the head for you. 
 
Are you up for my challenge? Let me know if you are and we can find out what if fact and what is what others are saying. Up to you. Cost would be $40 for my labor and you pay the shipping both ways if you are up for a challenge. 

 

I am pretty sure this was on MGS' lab test list pre COVID and I don't know where it falls on the list anymore.   I would personally love to try PURED/flo'd shafts to see if there is any impact or if it is a mental thing as I haven't seen any definitive evidence that it works in all cases

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47 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

Botton line here Ricky is that when I aligned the slicing drivers shaft and it went from a slice machine to a stright ball flight machine didn't mean anything to YOU. I took a piece of useless garbage and turned it into a prefectly good driver, and it means "nothing" to you. If that case I know I'm wasting my time with you and anyone that says the same things you do. Sorry I waste your time and mine both, I'll NOT do it again you can be sure. 

You literally chose not To read that I said it’s awesome you were able to improve dispersion thru improved ball flight. Literally telling you that you had a better setup. just want to argue to argue at this point. 

42 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

 If others choose to not do It because in whatever testing they’ve done they concluded it’s not necessary or the bang for the buck isn’t there, great, more power to them.    

I see one big problem with what you just posted. DO the golfer DO their OWN testing? Or do they read what others say and go on faith that what they read or hear is true?  YOU just posted what YOU believe, and thats fine. But does that make what YOU posted the truth? Or just what you heard or read somewhere?  

Again you choosing to ignore what’s been written in several posts of not only me doing my own testing but that there are threads across the internet where people have done their own testing and found that it provided no benefit. 
 

You are looking to argue for the sake of argument and ignoring what’s written.

It’s awesome for you that you had the experience of a process improving the performance of a diver for you and continue to use it his day even if you don’t do any testing of new shafts before you apply these process to them. Also gear that others you worked with have had success 

but as usual you want everyone to agree with you and want to put down and discredit everyone else’s opinion and experiences as well the info they provide. I’m out

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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2 hours ago, IONEPUTT said:

Once again YOU repeat what others have told you and NOT what you have learned from hands on testing of shafts.  Have YOU gone to the TPT site and looked at their hands on test results? Test results that do NOT agree with you have been told by the other shaft companies who only claim to make better shaft that do not need Puring, when if fact there are tests that show their claims to be false.  

 I've done my own tests and by test results tell me the factory shafts do need Spine and FLO alignment to perform at their max potential. But I guess my test results don't mean anything to you because they are MY test results and not what the big shaft compaiy is telling you. As I stated before, feel free to believe what they tell you and don't worry about what I'm stating to be true. This is NOT the first time no one on this site believes what I post, so I'm not surprised at all with your opinions. 

Once again. You copy and paste the same post when you have nothing new to add to the conversation despite multiple opinions offering  varying and actual experiences. 

:titelist-small: TSi1 Aldila Ascent 40G shaft

:titelist-small: TSi2 18 FW with GD AD IZ 6 Shaft

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 and 23 degree hybrids Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T300 5-P Tensei  R flex shaft 1/4 long 

:titelist-small: SM8 48F/54/58 D Grinds 

:ping-small: Tyne 4 

:titelist-small: ProV1X Play number 12

 

 

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1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said:

IF it was ONLY my test results, then you would have a fair reason to not agree with me. But when it is the test results of every golfer that I have done the shaft alignment work on their clubs that say the same thing, I think that makes a BIG difference. My testing is my testing. But when every other golfer that did their own testing on the course say the exact same thing. I'm going to believe my customers over what some shaft company told you and me and my customers. My customers learned the truty, why can't you? 

So those other golfers TOLD you it improved their performance. You didn’t see it yourself.  Yet you want to dismiss others that have been told a differing opinion.

I’ll just say this. I hope you enjoy this thread while you can. 
 



 

 

:titelist-small: TSi1 Aldila Ascent 40G shaft

:titelist-small: TSi2 18 FW with GD AD IZ 6 Shaft

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 and 23 degree hybrids Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T300 5-P Tensei  R flex shaft 1/4 long 

:titelist-small: SM8 48F/54/58 D Grinds 

:ping-small: Tyne 4 

:titelist-small: ProV1X Play number 12

 

 

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This thread like most started by this member has run its course 

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:titelist-small: TSi1 Aldila Ascent 40G shaft

:titelist-small: TSi2 18 FW with GD AD IZ 6 Shaft

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 and 23 degree hybrids Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T300 5-P Tensei  R flex shaft 1/4 long 

:titelist-small: SM8 48F/54/58 D Grinds 

:ping-small: Tyne 4 

:titelist-small: ProV1X Play number 12

 

 

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