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What does the 'draw' hosel setting ACTUALLY do?


smohan215
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When adjusting the hosel on a driver to 'draw' what is this actually doing to promote a draw?

With adjustable weights it makes sense; moving weight to the heel will promote the toe to release more quickly, closing the face at impact. But the hosel adjustment obviously isn't moving weight around, so it must be (I'm guessing) adjusting the lie angle to be more upright which typically promotes a draw. With irons this makes sense because the loft is effectively pointed closed when the heel is lower than the toe. Also it seems that turf interaction with the heel and not toe would close the face (dragging the heel as the toe continues to release) as the ball is being compressed - which would also close the face. But since driver has much less loft and no turf interaction, it makes it seem that an upright lie would promote a draw nearly as much.

I've never used the draw setting before, because I've normally had a natural draw - which has frustratingly evolved into a push-fade with driver this season. My path is still inside-out but I'm failing to close the clubface. This is probably for another post at another time; but my issue (I think) comes from feeling like I need to help the club to have a positive angle of attack, so I'm releasing incorrectly. My hesitation in using the draw setting is that if the above is correct, making the lie angle more upright when my fitted clubs (Ping Fairway adjusted flat, and Mizuno irons flat as standard) are flat and don't have the same miss seems counterproductive.

 

All of this is to ask: if my typical miss with driver is a push-fade, would using the 'draw' bias adjustment on a Cobra hosel be a potential fix? Caveat: clubs I've been fitted for (irons and fairway wood) are all flat, so making my driver more upright seems like I'd be working in the wrong direction (if my assumption about what the hosel adjustment does is actually correct).

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Driver:   :cobra-small: RadSpeed 9°
Fairway: :ping-small: G410 14.5°
Irons:     :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Forged
Wedges: :vokey-small: SM7 50°/54°/58°
Putter:    :ping-small: Redwood Anser

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It makes the club head more upright which can help promote a draw for some people.

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My bag is a revolving door!

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31 minutes ago, smohan215 said:

All of this is to ask: if my typical miss with driver is a push-fade, would using the 'draw' bias adjustment on a Cobra hosel be a potential fix? Caveat: clubs I've been fitted for (irons and fairway wood) are all flat, so making my driver more upright seems like I'd be working in the wrong direction (if my assumption about what the hosel adjustment does is actually correct).

I play a consistent fade off the tee which can exaggerate into a slice. The draw setting on my Cobra F9 helps neutralize it. Have never thought about going back in the 1.5 years since I did it and personally prefer this change compared to moving weights. 

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:cobra-small: F9 Driver 9*

:cobra-small: Baffler hybrids some combo of 2H-5H

:callaway-small: APEX CF19 6-AW

:ping-small: G700 4i, Glide 2.0 54, 58*

:edel-golf-1: EAS 2.0

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1 hour ago, smohan215 said:

All of this is to ask: if my typical miss with driver is a push-fade, would using the 'draw' bias adjustment on a Cobra hosel be a potential fix? Caveat: clubs I've been fitted for (irons and fairway wood) are all flat, so making my driver more upright seems like I'd be working in the wrong direction (if my assumption about what the hosel adjustment does is actually correct).

It could fix but it could make it worse by creating a bigger difference between face and path

The D setting changes the lie angle. It will make it more or less upright depending on + or - D

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I was playing a fade with my old Callaway 3 wood that did not have an adjustable hosel. Bought the Titleist this year and it had the same results in the standard setting. I started to experiment with settings and I think that I found my new comfort zone. Face is a touch closed with the lie set just a little up and SUPRISE!!!  Nice little cut that seems much more predictable and has allowed me to feel more comfortable swinging hard. 

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:mizuno-small: ST-Z w/ Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 6.0 60g

:titleist-small: TS2 3W w/ Project HZRDUS Smoke Black 6.0 70g

:mizuno-small: JPX 921 HM 4-GW w/ Project X LZ 5.5 115g

:mizuno-small: T22 54° SW w/ TT DG S400

:callaway-small:  MD3 60° LW 

:ping-small: Anser 2

 

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6 hours ago, smohan215 said:

When adjusting the hosel on a driver to 'draw' what is this actually doing to promote a draw?

 

Cobra doesn't seem to provide as much information on the specific setting, but if it's like other brands, it's probably upright lie (which promotes more left spin). The face angle could change throughout the settings too, but their adapter might maintain the same face angle -- they just don't provide the specifics behind it. Callaway specifically calls out their "Draw" setting as a change in Lie without mentioning face (https://www.callawaygolf.com/optifitinstructions/); TaylorMade doesn't call it a Draw setting, instead just calling it what it is ("Upright"), but they do publish the Lie and Face changes for each setting on their adapter, which includes a face change of +/- 4 degrees (old, but adapter settings should be the same: https://www.taylormadegolf.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-TMaG-Library/en_US/v1639300210181/manuals/2020_tuning_manual.pdf). 

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Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus 8* (adjusted to 8.75*), Mitsubishi Diamana ZF 70 X Flex

Fairway: :taylormade-small: SIM, 15* (adjusted to 15.75*), Shaft is a 50/50 split between Accra FX 2.0 300F M5 Flex and Paderson Kinetixx Ballistic TP 85 X Flex

Irons:  :titleist-small: T200 "Utility Build" 3 and 4 irons with Graphite Design Tour AD-IZ 95 X Flex, :titleist-small: T100S 5-PW with Nippon Pro Modus 120 X Flex (2021 MGS Test). These things are monsters. 

Wedges: :mizuno-small:T-20 Blue Ion 50.07, :Miura: K-Grind 2.0 Black 56* and Chrome 60* w/Accra SPI Tour

Putter: Total headcase, so it depends on the day. Rotate between :EVNROLL: ER11V ("Murdered Out" Black edition),  :mizuno-small: M Craft Type II Blue Ion and a Toulon Madison 

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It allows manufacturers to ask 100 to 200 more dollars for the driver.

I play a fixed driver no adjustment features and its just fine.

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12 minutes ago, Fitter81 said:

It allows manufacturers to ask 100 to 200 more dollars for the driver.

I play a fixed driver no adjustment features and its just fine.

Glad you have a driver that works for you. 
 

Draw settings like others have noted usually lead to an upright lie. Adjustable hosels in general allow fitters to dial in the exact settings that will work best for your swing. 

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:callaway-small: Mavrik Max 10.5* R Flex Evenflow RipTide
:cleveland-small: Hy-Wood
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:wilson_staff_small: D200 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
 

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10 hours ago, smohan215 said:

But since driver has much less loft and no turf interaction...

Wait. Who says driver has no turf interaction?? Dammit. 

I think I may have just had a lightning bolt moment. 

😜

(Following this thread, as I have a Cobra and my miss is also push-fade. I did set mine to "D", and it's helped SOME, but the shaft in my driver isn't optimized, stop I don't use it currently - in the process of figuring that out. Separate thread.)

  • Haha 2

Driver - :cobra-small: King Speedzone, 9 degrees, HZRDS Smoke 65g (two grams lead tape in heel)
3/5 Wood - Warrior Golf (don't ask)
Utility - :cobra-small: King Utility - 2 Iron
Irons (4-PW) - :taylormade-small:- SIM Max, Nippon Modus Tour 105 Stiff
Wedges (52, 56, 60) - Kirkland Signature 
Putter - L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 - 65*
Ball - Snell MTB Black/Vice Pro Plus

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I think adjustable drivers are a hype and make guys comfortable with bad swing mechanics.

Im not plugging any companies on here as I do not get compensation for it,But when I fit guys/gals I use the few brands that are left that offer non adjustable drivers I feel it promotes consistency in the driver swing.

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10 hours ago, Fitter81 said:

I think adjustable drivers are a hype and make guys comfortable with bad swing mechanics.

Im not plugging any companies on here as I do not get compensation for it,But when I fit guys/gals I use the few brands that are left that offer non adjustable drivers I feel it promotes consistency in the driver swing.

And you're a fitter, huh?

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In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:callaway-small: Mavrik Max 10.5* R Flex Evenflow RipTide
:cleveland-small: Hy-Wood
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:wilson_staff_small: D200 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
 

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11 hours ago, Samsonite said:

Wait. Who says driver has no turf interaction?? Dammit. 

🤣 I have a buddy that swears his straightest drives are when he dropkicks it because it helps to square the face, so there might be something to it!

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Driver:   :cobra-small: RadSpeed 9°
Fairway: :ping-small: G410 14.5°
Irons:     :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Forged
Wedges: :vokey-small: SM7 50°/54°/58°
Putter:    :ping-small: Redwood Anser

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11 hours ago, Fitter81 said:

I think adjustable drivers are a hype and make guys comfortable with bad swing mechanics.

Im not plugging any companies on here as I do not get compensation for it,But when I fit guys/gals I use the few brands that are left that offer non adjustable drivers I feel it promotes consistency in the driver swing.

Fair to have a preference, but wouldn't an adjustable sleeve allow any fitter to dial in the numbers for each individual?

For one there are simply too many different swings and body types that having a fixed Hodel while great for some, certainly can't be the preferred option for fitting?

I keep thinking back to txt and the Sim2 while they didn't mind the driver's they severally missed the sliding weight (yes i know not sleeve) compared to Sim because it allowed them to better dial in the club for each customer.

As for price there are plenty that offer lower cost drivers with plenty of adjustability. Cobra being in the middle, event the pxg 0211 has adjustable sleeve and it was $250 or $300 USD.

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 ⛳🛄 as of April 15, 2022

SuperSpeed 2020 from 100-112 and climbing!

Driver:   :callaway-small: Mavrik Sub Zero - Set at 9.5* with Aldila Rogue Max 65 gram 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ weight back

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 2 and 4 iron

Irons:     :ping-small: i210 5-U w/ Nippon Modus 105 stiff (2018 Tester)

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:      :srixon-small: Z Star

Other:     :Arccos: 

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11 hours ago, Fitter81 said:

I think adjustable drivers are a hype and make guys comfortable with bad swing mechanics.

Im not plugging any companies on here as I do not get compensation for it,But when I fit guys/gals I use the few brands that are left that offer non adjustable drivers I feel it promotes consistency in the driver swing.

I've honestly been of the same school of thought until very recently. My thought was always that if I'm putting my driver in a draw setting, I'm reinforcing whatever swing mechanics I'm creating that produce bad shots.

Yesterday I read this article about Scottie Scheffler's bag and the two things that stood out to me were about lead tape and bending the lofts on his wedges. I was also looking up the specs on Jack Nicklaus's irons because I have an old set of MacGregors in his spec I took to the range (man are they hard to hit) and saw that he had his 1/2" short and 0° bounce. Tiger has irons and wedges in his spec produced by Taylormade (the irons are in Scottie's bag) and the legend goes that he had Nike create irons that were like the Mizuno irons he played before they signed him.

Anyway, all of this is to say: the best players in the world have their clubs adjusted in every imaginable way - so it's almost arrogant for me to think I'm 'too good' to not use these same adjustments.

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Driver:   :cobra-small: RadSpeed 9°
Fairway: :ping-small: G410 14.5°
Irons:     :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Forged
Wedges: :vokey-small: SM7 50°/54°/58°
Putter:    :ping-small: Redwood Anser

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21 hours ago, hckymeyer said:

That's the beautiful thing about adjustable drivers.  In the time it took to write this post you could just adjust the driver to draw and test it out either on course or at the range.  Don't like it?  In the time it takes to read this reply you could adjust it back and work on the swing issue causing the problem 🙂

But as others have mentioned the draw setting at the hosel typically just makes the lie angle more upright.

Hahaha well this is just a little too reasonable for my taste!

You're totally right of course, it's just weirdly something I never end up doing. I talk myself out of it because I'm thinking "I'm at the range, I can use this time to 'fix' whatever swing mechanic" which is very much giving myself too much credit to actually do that. So of course I get myself where I have a couple rounds booked and no time for a range session more than pre-round warmup. Poor planning on my part.

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Driver:   :cobra-small: RadSpeed 9°
Fairway: :ping-small: G410 14.5°
Irons:     :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Forged
Wedges: :vokey-small: SM7 50°/54°/58°
Putter:    :ping-small: Redwood Anser

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Here is a couple of YouTube videos that hopefully can explain driver adjustments and the impact each has.   I follow the MobileClubMaker on YouTube.  AJ is a wealth of knowledge.

 

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Ping G400 SFT with a Matrix MFS 5 Korean Prototype Senior shaft, 12 degrees
Callaway Epic Flash 15 degree 3 wood, with a stock Project X Evenflow 45 grams senior shaft.  
Calloway Epic GBB Epic 20 degree Heaven Wood, with a stock Diamana 40 gram senior shaft
Ping G 20.5 degree 7 wood, with a stock Alta 65 gram senior shaft
Ping G hybrid 5 (26 degrees) with stock Alta 70 gram senior shafts.
Ping G30 irons 6-W, Yellow dot with graphite Fujikura EXS 60i R2-Flex shafts
Edison wedges:  50 degrees, 55 degrees and 60 degrees, 2 degrees up with KBS Tour Graphite A flex shafts
Putters:  New Evnroll ER10 Outback
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Its funny because any time I set a club in the draw/upright setting I tend to hit it more right as a RH golfer... I think its just the mental side of thinking I will miss it left

In my bag:

Driver: :cobra-small: Speedzone Xtreme 9.0* Fujikura Motore X F1 6X

Wood: :cobra-small: Speedzone Tour Fujikura Motore X F1 7X

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :srixon-small: Srixon ZX5 4-6 (1 degree weak), ZX7 7-PW Project X 6.5

Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :bridgestone-small: Tour B X 

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2 hours ago, jayjay0808 said:

Its funny because any time I set a club in the draw/upright setting I tend to hit it more right as a RH golfer... I think its just the mental side of thinking I will miss it left

Everyone wants definitive answers on what shaft, head, or setting will fix something and ultimately we all react differently so unless you actually try the setup you will never know.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :mizuno-small: T20 54-8  :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2,

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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5 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Everyone wants definitive answers on what shaft, head, or setting will fix something and ultimately we all react differently so unless you actually try the setup you will never know.  

100% correct! Each player is different and what they see at address affects their delivery. That is why fitting and testing is always the best answer.

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In my bag:

Driver: :cobra-small: Speedzone Xtreme 9.0* Fujikura Motore X F1 6X

Wood: :cobra-small: Speedzone Tour Fujikura Motore X F1 7X

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :srixon-small: Srixon ZX5 4-6 (1 degree weak), ZX7 7-PW Project X 6.5

Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :bridgestone-small: Tour B X 

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