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What does the 'draw' hosel setting ACTUALLY do?


smohan215

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When adjusting the hosel on a driver to 'draw' what is this actually doing to promote a draw?

With adjustable weights it makes sense; moving weight to the heel will promote the toe to release more quickly, closing the face at impact. But the hosel adjustment obviously isn't moving weight around, so it must be (I'm guessing) adjusting the lie angle to be more upright which typically promotes a draw. With irons this makes sense because the loft is effectively pointed closed when the heel is lower than the toe. Also it seems that turf interaction with the heel and not toe would close the face (dragging the heel as the toe continues to release) as the ball is being compressed - which would also close the face. But since driver has much less loft and no turf interaction, it makes it seem that an upright lie would promote a draw nearly as much.

I've never used the draw setting before, because I've normally had a natural draw - which has frustratingly evolved into a push-fade with driver this season. My path is still inside-out but I'm failing to close the clubface. This is probably for another post at another time; but my issue (I think) comes from feeling like I need to help the club to have a positive angle of attack, so I'm releasing incorrectly. My hesitation in using the draw setting is that if the above is correct, making the lie angle more upright when my fitted clubs (Ping Fairway adjusted flat, and Mizuno irons flat as standard) are flat and don't have the same miss seems counterproductive.

 

All of this is to ask: if my typical miss with driver is a push-fade, would using the 'draw' bias adjustment on a Cobra hosel be a potential fix? Caveat: clubs I've been fitted for (irons and fairway wood) are all flat, so making my driver more upright seems like I'd be working in the wrong direction (if my assumption about what the hosel adjustment does is actually correct).

Driver:   :cobra-small: RadSpeed 9°
Fairway: :ping-small: G410 14.5°
Irons:     :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Forged
Wedges: :vokey-small: SM7 50°/54°/58°
Putter:    :ping-small: Redwood Anser

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31 minutes ago, smohan215 said:

All of this is to ask: if my typical miss with driver is a push-fade, would using the 'draw' bias adjustment on a Cobra hosel be a potential fix? Caveat: clubs I've been fitted for (irons and fairway wood) are all flat, so making my driver more upright seems like I'd be working in the wrong direction (if my assumption about what the hosel adjustment does is actually correct).

I play a consistent fade off the tee which can exaggerate into a slice. The draw setting on my Cobra F9 helps neutralize it. Have never thought about going back in the 1.5 years since I did it and personally prefer this change compared to moving weights. 

:ping-small: G425 MAX Driver & 5W

:cobra-small: Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H

:Sub70: 699 Pro Utility V2 - 4i

:callaway-small: APEX CF19 6-AW

INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 

 :edel-golf-1: EAS 2.0

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1 hour ago, smohan215 said:

All of this is to ask: if my typical miss with driver is a push-fade, would using the 'draw' bias adjustment on a Cobra hosel be a potential fix? Caveat: clubs I've been fitted for (irons and fairway wood) are all flat, so making my driver more upright seems like I'd be working in the wrong direction (if my assumption about what the hosel adjustment does is actually correct).

It could fix but it could make it worse by creating a bigger difference between face and path

The D setting changes the lie angle. It will make it more or less upright depending on + or - D

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I was playing a fade with my old Callaway 3 wood that did not have an adjustable hosel. Bought the Titleist this year and it had the same results in the standard setting. I started to experiment with settings and I think that I found my new comfort zone. Face is a touch closed with the lie set just a little up and SUPRISE!!!  Nice little cut that seems much more predictable and has allowed me to feel more comfortable swinging hard. 

:titleist-small: TSi3 10° w/ Mitsubishi Tensei 1K Black 65g

:titleist-small: TS2 15° 3W w/ Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black 6.0 70g

:titleist-small: 818 H1 21° Hybrid w/ Mitsubishi Tensei CK Blue 70g

:mizuno-small: MP-18 MMC 2 iron w/ KBS Tour C-Taper S 120g

:mizuno-small: JPX 921 HM 5-GW w/ Project X LZ 5.5 115g

:Sub70: JB Forged 54° SW & 58° LW w/ Project X LZ 6.0 120g

:EVNROLL: EV5.3 Black

 

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6 hours ago, smohan215 said:

When adjusting the hosel on a driver to 'draw' what is this actually doing to promote a draw?

 

Cobra doesn't seem to provide as much information on the specific setting, but if it's like other brands, it's probably upright lie (which promotes more left spin). The face angle could change throughout the settings too, but their adapter might maintain the same face angle -- they just don't provide the specifics behind it. Callaway specifically calls out their "Draw" setting as a change in Lie without mentioning face (https://www.callawaygolf.com/optifitinstructions/); TaylorMade doesn't call it a Draw setting, instead just calling it what it is ("Upright"), but they do publish the Lie and Face changes for each setting on their adapter, which includes a face change of +/- 4 degrees (old, but adapter settings should be the same: https://www.taylormadegolf.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-TMaG-Library/en_US/v1639300210181/manuals/2020_tuning_manual.pdf). 

Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus 8* (adjusted to 8.75*), Mitsubishi Diamana ZF 70 X Flex (New toy incoming!)

Fairway: :taylormade-small: Stealth2 Plus, 15* (adjusted to 14.25*) w/ Graphite Design Tour AD-IZ 7X

Irons:  :titleist-small: U505 1 Iron (16*), T200 "Utility Build" 3 and 4 irons, all with Graphite Design Tour AD-IZ 95 X Flex, :titleist-small: T100S 5-9 with Nippon Pro Modus 120 X Flex (2021 MGS Test). These things are monsters. 

Wedges:  :vokey-small: SM9 46.10, 54.12, and 58.08, all with custom etchings & KBS Tour Masters-themed shafts, X-flex (CHA Post)

Putter: Total headcase and Putter Ho. Down to two main options in the rotation (one mallet, one blade), but have 4-5 by the basement putting green that might make it in the bag at some point this year... Mallet: :L.A.B.: Mezz XL 36" Orange; Blade: :L.A.B.: Link.1 w/Accra White shaft & :garsen: grip

 

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12 minutes ago, Fitter81 said:

It allows manufacturers to ask 100 to 200 more dollars for the driver.

I play a fixed driver no adjustment features and its just fine.

Glad you have a driver that works for you. 
 

Draw settings like others have noted usually lead to an upright lie. Adjustable hosels in general allow fitters to dial in the exact settings that will work best for your swing. 

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:mizuno-small: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:cleveland-small: Launcher CBX 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: Huntington Beach #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game

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10 hours ago, smohan215 said:

But since driver has much less loft and no turf interaction...

Wait. Who says driver has no turf interaction?? Dammit. 

I think I may have just had a lightning bolt moment. 

😜

(Following this thread, as I have a Cobra and my miss is also push-fade. I did set mine to "D", and it's helped SOME, but the shaft in my driver isn't optimized, stop I don't use it currently - in the process of figuring that out. Separate thread.)

Driver - PXG 0811 XF - Gen 5, 9 degrees (+1 setting), Oban Devotion TR 65 04
3/5 Wood - Cobra LTDx Max (Blue Colorway)
Utility - Caley X01 Driving Iron (3 = 18*)
Irons (5-PW) - Caley 01T
Wedges (48, 52, 56, 60) - Indi Wedges FLX 48 / ATK 52, 56, 60
Putter - L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 - 65*
Ball - Chrome Tour Triple-Track

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I think adjustable drivers are a hype and make guys comfortable with bad swing mechanics.

Im not plugging any companies on here as I do not get compensation for it,But when I fit guys/gals I use the few brands that are left that offer non adjustable drivers I feel it promotes consistency in the driver swing.

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10 hours ago, Fitter81 said:

I think adjustable drivers are a hype and make guys comfortable with bad swing mechanics.

Im not plugging any companies on here as I do not get compensation for it,But when I fit guys/gals I use the few brands that are left that offer non adjustable drivers I feel it promotes consistency in the driver swing.

And you're a fitter, huh?

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:mizuno-small: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:cleveland-small: Launcher CBX 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: Huntington Beach #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game

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11 hours ago, Samsonite said:

Wait. Who says driver has no turf interaction?? Dammit. 

🤣 I have a buddy that swears his straightest drives are when he dropkicks it because it helps to square the face, so there might be something to it!

Driver:   :cobra-small: RadSpeed 9°
Fairway: :ping-small: G410 14.5°
Irons:     :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Forged
Wedges: :vokey-small: SM7 50°/54°/58°
Putter:    :ping-small: Redwood Anser

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11 hours ago, Fitter81 said:

I think adjustable drivers are a hype and make guys comfortable with bad swing mechanics.

Im not plugging any companies on here as I do not get compensation for it,But when I fit guys/gals I use the few brands that are left that offer non adjustable drivers I feel it promotes consistency in the driver swing.

Fair to have a preference, but wouldn't an adjustable sleeve allow any fitter to dial in the numbers for each individual?

For one there are simply too many different swings and body types that having a fixed Hodel while great for some, certainly can't be the preferred option for fitting?

I keep thinking back to txt and the Sim2 while they didn't mind the driver's they severally missed the sliding weight (yes i know not sleeve) compared to Sim because it allowed them to better dial in the club for each customer.

As for price there are plenty that offer lower cost drivers with plenty of adjustability. Cobra being in the middle, event the pxg 0211 has adjustable sleeve and it was $250 or $300 USD.

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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11 hours ago, Fitter81 said:

I think adjustable drivers are a hype and make guys comfortable with bad swing mechanics.

Im not plugging any companies on here as I do not get compensation for it,But when I fit guys/gals I use the few brands that are left that offer non adjustable drivers I feel it promotes consistency in the driver swing.

I've honestly been of the same school of thought until very recently. My thought was always that if I'm putting my driver in a draw setting, I'm reinforcing whatever swing mechanics I'm creating that produce bad shots.

Yesterday I read this article about Scottie Scheffler's bag and the two things that stood out to me were about lead tape and bending the lofts on his wedges. I was also looking up the specs on Jack Nicklaus's irons because I have an old set of MacGregors in his spec I took to the range (man are they hard to hit) and saw that he had his 1/2" short and 0° bounce. Tiger has irons and wedges in his spec produced by Taylormade (the irons are in Scottie's bag) and the legend goes that he had Nike create irons that were like the Mizuno irons he played before they signed him.

Anyway, all of this is to say: the best players in the world have their clubs adjusted in every imaginable way - so it's almost arrogant for me to think I'm 'too good' to not use these same adjustments.

Driver:   :cobra-small: RadSpeed 9°
Fairway: :ping-small: G410 14.5°
Irons:     :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Forged
Wedges: :vokey-small: SM7 50°/54°/58°
Putter:    :ping-small: Redwood Anser

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21 hours ago, hckymeyer said:

That's the beautiful thing about adjustable drivers.  In the time it took to write this post you could just adjust the driver to draw and test it out either on course or at the range.  Don't like it?  In the time it takes to read this reply you could adjust it back and work on the swing issue causing the problem 🙂

But as others have mentioned the draw setting at the hosel typically just makes the lie angle more upright.

Hahaha well this is just a little too reasonable for my taste!

You're totally right of course, it's just weirdly something I never end up doing. I talk myself out of it because I'm thinking "I'm at the range, I can use this time to 'fix' whatever swing mechanic" which is very much giving myself too much credit to actually do that. So of course I get myself where I have a couple rounds booked and no time for a range session more than pre-round warmup. Poor planning on my part.

Driver:   :cobra-small: RadSpeed 9°
Fairway: :ping-small: G410 14.5°
Irons:     :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Forged
Wedges: :vokey-small: SM7 50°/54°/58°
Putter:    :ping-small: Redwood Anser

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Here is a couple of YouTube videos that hopefully can explain driver adjustments and the impact each has.   I follow the MobileClubMaker on YouTube.  AJ is a wealth of knowledge.

 

Ping G430 Max driver 10.5 degrees with an Alta Quick45 gram senior shaft
Callaway Epic 3 wood, Project X Evenflow Green 45 gram senior shaft  
Callaway GBB Epic Heavenwood, with a Mitsubishi Diamana 50 gram senior shaft
Ping G 20.5 degree 7 wood, with a stock Alta 65 gram senior shaft
Ping G 26 degree hybrid, stock Alta 65 gram senior shaft
Callaway Paradym X irons, 7-AW with Aldila Ascent Blue 50 graphite shafts
Edison wedges:  50, 55 and 60 degree, KBS Tour Graphite A flex shafts
Putters:  L.A.B. Direct Force 2.1 putter, 34.5" long, 67 degrees lie
 
2022 MGS Tester:  Shot Scope Pro XL+ with H4  
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Its funny because any time I set a club in the draw/upright setting I tend to hit it more right as a RH golfer... I think its just the mental side of thinking I will miss it left

In my bag:

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS 10.5* (set to 9.5) UST Lin-Q Gunmetal 6f5

Wood: :titleist-small: Tsi2 15* Project X RDX Black 70 6.5

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :cobra-small: Cobra King Tour MIM 4-PW Dynamic Gold 120 X100

Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :titleist-small:  Pro V1x

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2 hours ago, jayjay0808 said:

Its funny because any time I set a club in the draw/upright setting I tend to hit it more right as a RH golfer... I think its just the mental side of thinking I will miss it left

Everyone wants definitive answers on what shaft, head, or setting will fix something and ultimately we all react differently so unless you actually try the setup you will never know.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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5 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Everyone wants definitive answers on what shaft, head, or setting will fix something and ultimately we all react differently so unless you actually try the setup you will never know.  

100% correct! Each player is different and what they see at address affects their delivery. That is why fitting and testing is always the best answer.

In my bag:

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS 10.5* (set to 9.5) UST Lin-Q Gunmetal 6f5

Wood: :titleist-small: Tsi2 15* Project X RDX Black 70 6.5

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :cobra-small: Cobra King Tour MIM 4-PW Dynamic Gold 120 X100

Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :titleist-small:  Pro V1x

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I have the same issue as you - path is in-to-out but with an open face so the ball starts right and goes more right. I've had more success tweaking the loft up a degree to close the face instead of using the draw setting on the hosel adapter.

Cobra King LTDx 9*, Mitsubishi Diamana TB 60S

Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220 15*, Mitsubishi Diamana TB 70S

Titleist TS2 18*, Mitsubishi Diamana TB 80S

Mizuno Pro Fli-Hi 4i, Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 80 6.0

Srixon ZX5 5-PW, N.S. Pro Modus3 105S

Ping Glide 3.0 48* SS, 54* SS, 58* SS; KDS Hi-Rev 2.0

SIK DW | C-Series

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14 hours ago, JimmyShanks415 said:

I have the same issue as you - path is in-to-out but with an open face so the ball starts right and goes more right. I've had more success tweaking the loft up a degree to close the face instead of using the draw setting on the hosel adapter.

I was thinking about that too, but I was struggling with generating too much spin. The 9° driver head with a stiff shaft is new-ish to me and actually fixed a lot initially.

BTW! How do you like the Mizuno Fli-Hi? I've been eyeing those to replace hybrids

Driver:   :cobra-small: RadSpeed 9°
Fairway: :ping-small: G410 14.5°
Irons:     :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Forged
Wedges: :vokey-small: SM7 50°/54°/58°
Putter:    :ping-small: Redwood Anser

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1 hour ago, smohan215 said:

I was thinking about that too, but I was struggling with generating too much spin. The 9° driver head with a stiff shaft is new-ish to me and actually fixed a lot initially.

BTW! How do you like the Mizuno Fli-Hi? I've been eyeing those to replace hybrids

Really like the Fli-Hi. Not as great from the turf as a hybrid, but love it off the tee - got it specifically for a 215 yard par 3 at my home course, but can also hit low bullets that just run out forever on tighter driving holes. Doesn't seem draw biased the way most hybrids are, so at least when I hook it the ball isn't off the planet left. Only knock is that it doesn't seem like the finish will hold up very long, but not really any different than any other non-chrome finish.

Cobra King LTDx 9*, Mitsubishi Diamana TB 60S

Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220 15*, Mitsubishi Diamana TB 70S

Titleist TS2 18*, Mitsubishi Diamana TB 80S

Mizuno Pro Fli-Hi 4i, Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 80 6.0

Srixon ZX5 5-PW, N.S. Pro Modus3 105S

Ping Glide 3.0 48* SS, 54* SS, 58* SS; KDS Hi-Rev 2.0

SIK DW | C-Series

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To my knowledge from what i've learned lately concerning drivers and adjustable clubs.

Callaway or other adjustable hosel with D setting... Draw setting on those hosel will make the club UPRIGHT which means you will generally draw the ball more.

Increasing loft on your driver will also close a little bit the club face.

Moving weight in the Heel will increase your draw.

You need to experiment what work best for you and your game...

It can be some weird combo that make no sense but it work for you, or simply it could be standard everywhere.

if it's Draw setting with weight in the toe that work for you, then it is, it would make no sense for most people but for you it work...

 

 

 

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You might also play with adding loft, this actually closes the face.  
 

try different combos of loft and more upright lie.  See what works. 

Ping G400

Ping G410 3,5,7

JPX 921 Hotmetal

Vokey 54, 58M

Odyssey #1 black
 

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When one adjusts the loft of a driver, with the adjustment on the hosel, you are actually changing two things. One obviously, is the effective loft of the driver and secondly, and it isn't as obvious, is one is either opening or closing the face angle. When you increase the loft of a driver, you actually close the face angle slightly. It's somewhat counterintuitive but it does change the angle. The opposite is true when one decreases the loft, one opens the face angle slightly. 

Moving adjustable weights on either side of the driver face is a different matter. One can make the driver close or open slightly at impact, given a consistent swing path,  by changing the weights at the heel and toe if your driver is so equipped. 

When doing a fitting, most launch monitors will indicate the swing path, face angle, etc. which is an invaluable tool in any fitting. Yet another reason to do any club fitting with an accurate launch monitor.

Edited by Birdieputt13

Driver - Taylormade M6; 10.5 Degrees - Diamana BF50R shaft.

Fairway Woods - Tour Exotics (3 Wood) CBX119 EvenFlow Project X 5.5R Tour Exotics (4 Wood) XCG7; Fujikura 50R shaft.

Hybrids - PING G (19,22 and 26 Degree lofts.)

Irons - Mizuno MX300 (7-GW)

Wedges - Cleveland RTX4 (54 and 58 degree)

Putter - Pyramid Altec Series AZ-11

Ball - Bridgestone 330-RTX or Calloway Tour iz

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I'm relatively new to playing a 10.5° PXG 0211 driver. Standard lie angle is 58°.

Because it's new and there's no PXG fitter anywhere close to where I live I've been going through the adjustments myself. This has been done through a combination of indoor and outdoor range work.

After mostly indoor work with a simulator with a launch monitor which gave me launch angles, spin rates etc., I ended up playing the "Small Minus" – This setting decreases the loft by 1° and decreases the lie angle by 0.5°.

After some time on the outdoor range and a couple of rounds I realized I was still getting the occasional big miss left. At that point I decided to go to the "Flat Minus" setting which decreases the loft by 1° and decreases the lie angle by 2.5°. This is the same loft as the "small minus" setting but a 2° flatter lie angle. That has helped a lot to take away the left side of the fairway / rough.

It's also worth noting that I've added about 6g of lead tape to the sole, taking the swing weight from D1 to D4. The lead tape is also biased slightly towards the toe, helping to stop the club face from closing.

All things considered the 0211 PXG is the best driver I've ever had.

P.S. I'm 6'2" with long arms (37" sleeve length). 

Edited by cycleguy55
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As one response here has alluded to, many adjustable drivers not only make the lie angles more upright, they also close the face angle when you adjust the adapter to the “draw” setting. Adapters that have “higher” and “lower” loft settings (e.g. TaylorMade and Sub 70 Golf) usually adjust the lie angle and face angle in conjunction with the loft. The higher you adjust the loft, the more upright the lie and more closed the face angle, and the lower you adjust the loft the flatter the lie angle and the more open the face angle. The exception to this is with those adapters with multiple cogs, such as Callaway and Krank Golf.

DR - Callaway Paradym X, Newton Motion 4-Dot

4W - T.E. Exotics C722, Diamana D+ 82-S

HYB - Paradym X 18*, HZRDUS Smoke Red 80S; Sub 70 949X 21*, same shaft

7W (if played) - Callaway Epic Flash, ACCRA Tour X 80S

Irons - Cobra Forged Tec X (5-GW), KBS TGI 75-R

Wedges - Edison 2.0, 53* and 57* (bent to 58*), KBS TGI 100

Putter - Makefield VS custom, 34", 67* lie, 1.75* loft

Ball - Maxfli Tour-X CG (2023) or Vice Pro Plus (OnCore ELIXR or Maxfli Tour S in winter)

Bags - Vessel

Cart - MotoCaddy M7 Remote (without the remote)

Spoiler

driver / off the tee is no longer a weakness for me!

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There is an option to change the tip to a left handed tip or right handed what ever is opposite of what hand you golf and then draw setting will flatten it of making it fade biased. 

Rouge st, Mizuno JPX 919 tour, anser putter. 

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