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Should I be switching my shot shape at will while I'm playing??


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Should I be switching my shot shape at will while I'm playing??

I like to work on both draws and cuts, including normal shots and tee shots when at the range... should I be using all kinds of shots around the course to suit the best way to approach the hole strategy wise (again, both tee shots, approach shots, whatever)?

For example, back left pin is ripe for a draw (start it in the middle, work towards the hole, a little more roll out).. or front right with a cut (start it in the middle, work towards the hole, a little less roll out).

Fairway example, hole is right to left, so play the draw

And, you can dial in your distances using both shots.. need to take a little off, cut it a bit... need it to go a little further, big draw

 

OR

 

Should I be sticking to a "stock shot" that I use most of the time, and only use the other shot if absolutely necessary?

I really don't see a lot of golfers playing both shots well, to be honest... but that doesn't mean I can't do it

 

Just kinda lost for which strategy i should use... I usually shoot in the mid 80s btw
 

Edited by PingMan917

Irons - Titleist T200

Driver - Ping G425 Max

Woods - 3w and 5w Ping G425 Max

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Putter - Odyssey White Hot OG #5 with Super Stroke Pistol GT 2.0

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Some of the best tour pros weren't good enough to change shot shapes.  Bruce Leitzke hit fades, every time.  You're not good enough, hit the shot that gives you the tightest dispersion, every chance you can.

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Modern strategy seems to lean toward stock shape especially for driver.  Irons there is a little leeway but your dispersion patterns will probably be similar no matter which shape you play into a green.   DECADE is one of the big systems now; you can research that model and make you own decisions.  

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3 minutes ago, goaliedad30 said:

Almost every really good player I play with these days hits a stock shot, period. They have confidence in it, and they execute it very consistently. That said, they all know HOW to move the ball either direction if they truly have to ... as in, "go around a tree" have to.

Great answer

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I agree with what most have recommended with sticking to one shot shape and practice it as much as possible. Being able to use the other shape if absolutely necessary is good to know but to have trust and confidence in one shape is the best. I think it opens more of the fairway too because you can sim up one side and trust it will move the whole length of fairway width where if you sim up the middle with both misses you have half the distance on either side to miss. 

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20 minutes ago, LeftyMatt89 said:

I think it opens more of the fairway too because you can sim up one side and trust it will move the whole length of fairway width where if you sim up the middle with both misses you have half the distance on either side to miss.

I think this is an old myth.  If I hit a draw 100% of the time, I'll certainly aim near the right edge and swing, with my goal to end up near the middle of the fairway.  But I'll still miss right of my target, and I'll still miss left of my target.  If I hit it nearly straight, I'll aim for the middle, and miss it right sometimes, and left sometimes.  A consistent shot shape doesn't give you any more space to hit to, but tighter dispersion definitely means more balls in your preferred landing area.

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21 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I think this is an old myth.  If I hit a draw 100% of the time, I'll certainly aim near the right edge and swing, with my goal to end up near the middle of the fairway.  But I'll still miss right of my target, and I'll still miss left of my target.  If I hit it nearly straight, I'll aim for the middle, and miss it right sometimes, and left sometimes.  A consistent shot shape doesn't give you any more space to hit to, but tighter dispersion definitely means more balls in your preferred landing area.

I think it will eliminate most of the big misses if the fairway if you know it will draw 90% of the time. I was watching this TXG video and I think it makes a lot of sense if  I know it’s going to fade (I’m lefty too) I’ll aim like 5 yards from right edge, obviously I can still hit a draw or a pull but if I am actively working on a fade or over fade (slice haha) it should be still playable on left side of fairway. I think what helps me is committing to the shot regardless of shape and having a plan. Aiming dead middle is less successful for me than aiming to play a specific shot. I completely agree that I will still miss to both sides but hopefully it is missing left further than missing right of target  

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, LeftyMatt89 said:

Aiming dead middle is less successful for me than aiming to play a specific shot.

Personally, I'm aiming at a location that will have my ball ending up in the middle after my normal shot shape.  Most people have a tighter dispersion when they allow the ball to curve whichever way is natural for them, as compared to trying to hit it dead straight.  If you look at any of the strokes-gained informed advice (Decade is one of those "systems") you'll see that their targeting doesn't rely at all on shot shape, only on where they want the ball to finish.  You figure out your intended destination, then plot the best route to get the ball there.

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:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

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:Sub70: 5-wood

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9 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Personally, I'm aiming at a location that will have my ball ending up in the middle after my normal shot shape.  Most people have a tighter dispersion when they allow the ball to curve whichever way is natural for them, as compared to trying to hit it dead straight.  If you look at any of the strokes-gained informed advice (Decade is one of those "systems") you'll see that their targeting doesn't rely at all on shot shape, only on where they want the ball to finish.  You figure out your intended destination, then plot the best route to get the ball there.

I think we’re saying similar things. I can’t just aim dead middle because I don’t hit a straight ball, I’d end in left rough way too often. I aim to the right of an intended place I want it to land so if my ball does what it normal does it ends up on the intended target line. My course is difficult because I can miss big in certain areas and take overly aggressive lines without penalty and then some holes are tight with OB on both sides. But overall I would agree to aim on a line that would get the ball to finish in the optimum spot. 

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50 minutes ago, LeftyMatt89 said:

I think we’re saying similar things. I can’t just aim dead middle because I don’t hit a straight ball, I’d end in left rough way too often. I aim to the right of an intended place I want it to land so if my ball does what it normal does it ends up on the intended target line. My course is difficult because I can miss big in certain areas and take overly aggressive lines without penalty and then some holes are tight with OB on both sides. But overall I would agree to aim on a line that would get the ball to finish in the optimum spot. 

We agree.  I just don't like the old phrase "eliminate one side of the course", because we just can't accomplish that, at least not without hitting way too many balls in the bad stuff on the other side.

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I strive for straight to "falling left", but I more often am straight to "falling right".  I only intentionally curve the ball if I am blocked out by a tree or other obstacle (sadly more often than I would like), but I'm a proponent of a stock shape in general.  

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12 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Some of the best tour pros weren't good enough to change shot shapes.  Bruce Leitzke hit fades, every time.  You're not good enough, hit the shot that gives you the tightest dispersion, every chance you can.

I'm quoting myself, I know this is a bit harsh, but its accurate.  Very very few players are good enough to reliably hit fades and draws with similar accuracy.  Heck, very very few players are good enough that they should ever consider aiming at a tucked pin outside of 100 yards.  Almost every one of us would be best served by trying to hit the center of every single green, center from side to side, center from front to back.  Most of us are best served by playing whatever shot shape results in the tightest shot pattern.  This doesn't sound like very exciting golf, it might mean fewer birdies, but it would mean a LOT fewer bogeys and doubles.

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:Sub70: 5-wood

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17 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I'm quoting myself, I know this is a bit harsh, but its accurate.  Very very few players are good enough to reliably hit fades and draws with similar accuracy.  Heck, very very few players are good enough that they should ever consider aiming at a tucked pin outside of 100 yards.  Almost every one of us would be best served by trying to hit the center of every single green, center from side to side, center from front to back.  Most of us are best served by playing whatever shot shape results in the tightest shot pattern.  This doesn't sound like very exciting golf, it might mean fewer birdies, but it would mean a LOT fewer bogeys and doubles.

I need to tattoo this on my push cart so I aim for the middle of green and natural dispersion might actually lead to more birdie opportunities because I’ll be putting instead of chipping.  I’m going to google earth my home course and find a middle point today 

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44 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

We agree.  I just don't like the old phrase "eliminate one side of the course", because we just can't accomplish that, at least not without hitting way too many balls in the bad stuff on the other side.

Disagree. My Ping m2 and g400 both with the hzrdus yellow and ventus blue were anti left setups. Only shots that went left were from a bad swing that was a straight pull. I have a buddy who has m1 setup that was the same way. 
 

Ball flight was straight or baby fades. Anything to the right that was more than just off the fairway was due to the line I took and not the ball flight itself 

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2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Disagree. My Ping m2 and g400 both with the hzrdus yellow and ventus blue were anti left setups. Only shots that went left were from a bad swing that was a straight pull. I have a buddy who has m1 setup that was the same way. 
 

Ball flight was straight or baby fades. Anything to the right that was more than just off the fairway was due to the line I took and not the ball flight itself 

The way I read this, you never miss your target right (you may select a bad target, but never miss right of it), and only miss left with a "bad swing."  So really, your anti-left equipment could still produce a left miss, because everyone who has ever played the game makes "bad swings".  What your anti-left equipment has almost certainly done is to eliminate big hooks, decreasing big misses.

I remember reading stats for Dustin Johnson, one of the best drivers in the world.  He generally plays a cut, and announcers will say doing so has eliminated the left miss for him.  Stats show that he misses the fairway about equally to the left and to the right.  He hasn't eliminated anything, he's merely chosen a ball flight to decrease his dispersion and minimize big misses to either side.

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4 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The way I read this, you never miss your target right (you may select a bad target, but never miss right of it), and only miss left with a "bad swing."  So really, your anti-left equipment could still produce a left miss, because everyone who has ever played the game makes "bad swings".  What your anti-left equipment has almost certainly done is to eliminate big hooks, decreasing big misses.

I remember reading stats for Dustin Johnson, one of the best drivers in the world.  He generally plays a cut, and announcers will say doing so has eliminated the left miss for him.  Stats show that he misses the fairway about equally to the left and to the right.  He hasn't eliminated anything, he's merely chosen a ball flight to decrease his dispersion and minimize big misses to either side.

Don’t hit my target left and those setups anything left if intended target were pulls that start left and go left. Miss of the target would be to the right of intended target line and with very little movement so the ball flight becomes a push fade instead of a normal fade.

Yes we all hit bad shots but fortunately the pull with those setups were few and far between

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I'm going to tattoo this.

21 minutes ago, LeftyMatt89 said:

I'm quoting myself

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tiftaaft said:

I'm going to tattoo this.

I wrote the initial post quickly, and figured a little more explanation was appropriate.  It can get a little argumentative when the first thing said is "You're not good enough."  I mean, the OP really isn't good enough, at a 14 handicap, but I'm off 8 and I'm not good enough either.  It looks like great advice in a Golf Digest article every 2 or 3 years, but its not going to work very well for most of us real-world golfers.

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2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Almost every one of us would be best served by trying to hit the center of every single green, center from side to side, center from front to back.

I completely agree with this statement for the record.

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Wow, I'm kinda shocked not even one person went with the "work the ball at will" answer lol

I simply find it more fun to work it both ways.

I think I'll mostly stick to my draw, but still work the cut enough in practice to use it for front right pins and left to right fairways

Opening up another can of worms...

Do you guys work on changing your height of your shots depending on the scenario... I'm anticipating the same "play a stock shot" answers, but I want to see what you guys think!

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Woods - 3w and 5w Ping G425 Max

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Putter - Odyssey White Hot OG #5 with Super Stroke Pistol GT 2.0

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Also, I've seen guys who have 2 "stock shots"... fade off the tee, draw with everything else... I went through a phase like that as well.
 

Or do you think that everything should match across the board?

Edited by PingMan917

Irons - Titleist T200

Driver - Ping G425 Max

Woods - 3w and 5w Ping G425 Max

Wedges - Callaway Mack Daddy CB 54 and 58

Putter - Odyssey White Hot OG #5 with Super Stroke Pistol GT 2.0

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42 minutes ago, PingMan917 said:

I simply find it more fun to work it both ways.

Ok... well... "fun" is a different question.  If you don't care about what you shoot... work it all over the place.  🙂.  By the way... I do practice draws and fades on the range, but not to use to go at the pin or eliminate one side of the fairway... again... to work around obstacles.

As far as height... I guess I should ask... are you asking what is more fun, or what do I do to get it as close as possible to the pin (or my intended target).  Same answer as above about stock shot and obstacles... with one exception... I try to flight my 100 yards in shots to control my distance and spin.

Edited by Tiftaaft
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32 minutes ago, PingMan917 said:

Or do you think that everything should match across the board?

My opinion (worth less than 2 cents) is.... whatever YOU'RE most comfortable with with each club.  A little bit facetious and using extremes, but while my stock shot is a little fade with the driver... I'm not going to intentionally hit a baby fade with my putter to be consistent through the bag 😉 . 

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39 minutes ago, PingMan917 said:

Wow, I'm kinda shocked not even one person went with the "work the ball at will" answer lol

I simply find it more fun to work it both ways.

I think I'll mostly stick to my draw, but still work the cut enough in practice to use it for front right pins and left to right fairways

Opening up another can of worms...

Do you guys work on changing your height of your shots depending on the scenario... I'm anticipating the same "play a stock shot" answers, but I want to see what you guys think!

Why do something that even the best in the world don’t do. It’s better to be able to the the ball up and down than left to right.

Most amateurs either don’t practice or don’t have the amount of time to practice to get the skills to work the ball at will left to right or right to left. Trying to do that without a lot of practice can lead to a two way miss.

Whats fun for one isn’t always what’s fun or someone else. For some hitting both fades and draws is fun while for others it could be keeping things simple and shooting their best score possible with their standard shot.

I would take a ZJ boring game of hitting draws on every shot, laying up on par 5s and shooting low scores over hitting draws and fades and not going low

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1 hour ago, PingMan917 said:

Do you guys work on changing your height of your shots depending on the scenario... I'm anticipating the same "play a stock shot" answers, but I want to see what you guys think!

I've learned to hit a lower shot at times, but that's the extent of my manipulation on the course.  

1 hour ago, PingMan917 said:

Also, I've seen guys who have 2 "stock shots"... fade off the tee, draw with everything else... I went through a phase like that as well.

I think that the faded driver and the draws with everything else is reasonable.  That's based primarily on ball position, typically a driver is played well forward, so a normal swing path is more likely to produce a fade.  Irons are generally played a little further back, so a draw is more likely.  The same swing, with different ball positions, is likely to produce different curvatures without any manipulation at all.

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2 hours ago, PingMan917 said:

Wow, I'm kinda shocked not even one person went with the "work the ball at will" answer lol

I simply find it more fun to work it both ways.

I think I'll mostly stick to my draw, but still work the cut enough in practice to use it for front right pins and left to right fairways

Opening up another can of worms...

Do you guys work on changing your height of your shots depending on the scenario... I'm anticipating the same "play a stock shot" answers, but I want to see what you guys think!

Play the game however you want, but as pretty much everyone said, hit on shape.  Unless it am trying to flight a wedge or I am avoiding an obstacle, it is almost always stock. 

2 hours ago, PingMan917 said:

Also, I've seen guys who have 2 "stock shots"... fade off the tee, draw with everything else... I went through a phase like that as well.
 

Or do you think that everything should match across the board?

I am typically fade with driver and draw with everything else.  Doesn’t really matter from a player perspective, just hit the stock shot with that club and if you want a specific shape play a different club. 

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4 hours ago, PingMan917 said:

Wow, I'm kinda shocked not even one person went with the "work the ball at will" answer

 

... I don't know how old you are but the game has changed. Considerably. The old balata ball always curved and was dammed near impossible to hit dead straight. While the current ball really wants to go straight and it takes a good deal of skill and effort to turn it both ways. With MB's and a balata ball it didn't take much at all to hit a draw to a back left pin or a fade to a front right open. Just open or close the face a hair and swing normal and the ball would move. Of course the problem back then was moving it too much. 

... Fast forward to todays irons that again want to launch the ball high and straight combined with a ball that wants to do the same and working it both ways is just not a recipe for success. I play a natural soft draw and more often than not I still hit a pretty straight ball. I can hit a fade if needed but no guarantee on how much of a fade I will hit and usually only do so to escape trouble or ride the wind. I think a good piece of advice from Anika is she will not attempt a shot unless she is absolutely sure she can pull it off at least 80% off the time. An Am that can hit a fade or draw on command and have it turn out just as they planned 80% of the time are very few and far between. He!! anyone on tour that can hit a fade or draw on command and have it turn out just as they planned 80% of the time are very few and far between. 

... The above said if you are just playing for fun and not a score, working it both ways should be equally frustrating and fun. 👍

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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9 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I think this is an old myth.  If I hit a draw 100% of the time, I'll certainly aim near the right edge and swing, with my goal to end up near the middle of the fairway.  But I'll still miss right of my target, and I'll still miss left of my target.  If I hit it nearly straight, I'll aim for the middle, and miss it right sometimes, and left sometimes.  A consistent shot shape doesn't give you any more space to hit to, but tighter dispersion definitely means more balls in your preferred landing area.

 

... I am beginning too think you are a Robot here just to disagree with everything I believe. 😉  

... If you almost always hit a draw and you aim down the right side of the fairway your chances of being in the fairway are better than aiming down the middle. If you miss the fairway by 10yds to the right, the ball will draw back and find the right side of the fairway. It takes a big miss (ignoring a push fade double cross) to end up right of the fairway with a repeatable draw. A perfect shot will end up closer to the middle and a hook might find the left side of the fairway and a pull hook will end up missing left. Obviously the same is true for a fade starting down the left edge of the fairway. But by aiming down the middle, the average Am is gonna over draw or over fade their tee shot more often than a double cross, a push or a pull. 

... I am talking about players with a relatively repeatable driver shape. Most ams I play with hit a fade. Every single time. Unless it is a slice. Or an accidental straight ball. Aiming down the middle lessens their chance of hitting the fairway because they are just not gonna miss left but have a very good chance of missing right. Of course the wild card is many Am's also miss both ways, top or sky their drives and don't know if they are gonna fade, draw or hit a straight tee shot so this does not apply to them. 

 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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