Unique WITB setups

[IONEPUTT]

HI BIG STU:

While I do live in Colorado, the distance gains at a mile high is NOT 10% as some have stated. It's more like 5% . When I played golf in Cabo awhile back I was hitting all of my irons about half a club shorter that what I do in Colorado. I have 15 yards between clubs, so that equates to about 7-8 yards less carry at sea level compared to here in the Denve area.  There are a few reasons for the difference being only 5% here in Denver. One is that the air is very DRY, and dry air is heavier than moist air so the ball loses speed faster here in Denver than it does in moist air at sea level. One other factor is that thin air means LESS LIFT due to backspin. As you know backspin causes lift with all of your clubs, and thin air just does NOT create as much lift as thicker sea level ais does, and that means the ball falls out of the air faster and that means less carry, especially with the driver and woods. When the PGA tour was in town a few years ago. 5% was the number the caddies were using when they gave the distance needed on approach shots so their players would hit the ball the correct distance taking the thinner dry air into account. 

Not sure where the 10% number comes from but my bet would be from baseball. Baseballs DO travel about 19% farther here in Denver, but baseballs do NOt depend of backspin and the lift the backspin creates to help the ball stay up in the air longer. With a golf ball, back spin helps a lot, but at mile high Denver not as much. I hope this helps to explain why 5% is closer to the truth than the 19% some have mentioned. 

[IONEPUTT]

I've been doing some thinking on the issue of putters lately. I know my high CG putter works as I designed it to, and now I'm thinking of building a new design that will meet all of the USGA rules for golf clubs and see if my new design works just like my current design. If it does I think I'll see if I can get my new design approved by the USGA and I can then start to sell them as as "Conforming" putter. Should be pretty easy to make a few changes to my old design so I can build a new model for testing. 

[Bobbers]

1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said:

I've been doing some thinking on the issue of putters lately. I know my high CG putter works as I designed it to, and now I'm thinking of building a new design that will meet all of the USGA rules for golf clubs and see if my new design works just like my current design. If it does I think I'll see if I can get my new design approved by the USGA and I can then start to sell them as as "Conforming" putter. Should be pretty easy to make a few changes to my old design so I can build a new model for testing. 

Jack Nicklaus used what I believe was called the ZT High Response putter in the 1986 Master's win.  Insanely high CG.  I've got one sitting around here somewhere.  So depending on your design it should be pretty straightforward when you submit the design for consideration; they've seen the concept and seen in proven almost 40 years ago.  Good luck with the design.

[IONEPUTT]

36 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

Jack Nicklaus used what I believe was called the ZT High Response putter in the 1986 Master's win.  Insanely high CG.  I've got one sitting around here somewhere.  So depending on your design it should be pretty straightforward when you submit the design for consideration; they've seen the concept and seen in proven almost 40 years ago.  Good luck with the design.

Thanks Bobbers:  I just have to take a few measurements off of my current design and then make a few changes and build a new model. Should be pretty simple to do and shouldn't take very long. I"ll let you know what I come up with in case anyone else is interested in trying a high CG putter design. 

[Travis W Smith]

On 5/17/2022 at 12:09 AM, RoyN said:

I work in club repair and do a lot of regripping of full sets, so I see some interesting and boring setups. 

So who's carrying something different in their bag this year or has an unique/unusual setup. I.e. I don't carry any fairway woods and use a chipper.

I carry all Ping clubs in my set-up but all different models….11 club setup counting putter… tighten up the gaps as the numbers get higher.  I play to a 12 hdcp. I play all different because these are the clubs I feel the most confident each time I hit them.  It’s taken me years to dial this set up in and it’s hodge lodge but works for me. 

dr- ping G15 8.5 degree (I also have it as a 12 degree)

5w- ping I-15 

3hy- ping g10

5hy-ping g15

7i- ping g5

8i- ping zing 2

    I carry 2 9 irons

9i-ping g5 (42 degree)

9i- ping eye2+ (45 degree) matches modern pw loft

pw-ping eye2+ (50 degree) matches modern gw loft

sw- ping eye2 gorge 56 degree

i switch between 2 putters

40y/o  ping anser with tungsten weights drilled into the heel and toe super stroke counter balance grip.

ping DOC 15 giant mallet putter.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Travis W Smith
Clarification

[IONEPUTT]

A couple days ago I posted a reply to a statement that playing at altitude like in Denver the ball goes 10% farther. I my post I stated that here in the Denver area we get about 5% more carry according to the tip from a PGA Tour caddie. I just got an email from Titleist and in their article I found this info.

Hey, Team Titleist.

This week the Korn Ferry Tour travels to Berthoud, Colorado for The Ascendant. The tournament is aptly named, as a climb of nearly a mile high is required to get to the host course, TPC Colorado (5,030 feet above sea level). The game changes at these heights and altitude presents some unique and noticeable challenges.

From 1986 through 2006, The International in Castle Rock, CO (elevation: 6,224′) was a regular tour stop on the PGA Tour. More recently, the WGC - Mexico Championship has been staged at Club de Golf Chapultepec in Mexico City (elevation - 7,349′). And today, the Barracuda Championship, hosted just outside Lake Tahoe, CA (elevation 5,817') has become a late-season mainstay on the PGA Tour. Bottom line, PGA Tour players are exposed fairly regularly to the adjustments needed to play well at elevation.

But what about the (predominantly) younger and inexperienced Korn Ferry players who might never have played thousands of feet above sea level? How will it affect their games? You probably know or have heard that the golf ball flies farther at high altitude, but is it impacted in other ways? For some answers, we reached out to the experts in Titleist Golf Ball R&D. Here are some key points to keep in mind the next time you have a chance to play where eagles dare.

EFFECTS OF ALTITUDE ON GOLF BALL PERFORMANCE:

• The golf ball does fly farther in high altitudes. This is mainly due to the change in air density, which decreases as elevation increases. Thinner air exerts less drag force on the ball. The ball moves more easily through the air and doesn't slow down as quickly as it flies, resulting in greater distance.

• The force of gravity also decreases the further we move away from the earth's center, but the change in force is too small to have any significant effect on the ball.

• You can calculate the distance gain you will experience (compared to sea level) by multiplying the elevation (in feet) by .00116. For example, if you're playing in Reno, at 1 mile elevation (5,280 ft.) the increase is about 6% (5,280 x .00116 = 6.1248). If you normally drive the ball 250 yards at sea level, you will likely drive it 265 yards in Reno.

• The golf ball does not spin any less at high elevation. However, because the air is less dense and imparts less force on the ball, the lift force is also lower. You'll see a flatter trajectory on your longer shots, a more shallow angle of descent and greater roll.

• Because the air is less dense at higher altitudes and imparts less force on the golf ball, the ball won't slice or hook as much. It will be harder to shape shots.

• The shorter the shot and the slower the ball moves through the air, the less impact altitude will have on golf ball aerodynamics. This means, on short approaches and greenside shots, you don't have to adjust for elevation.

While this info is surely correct, they don't take into account the effect of the dry air in Denver. Dry air is denser than moist air so the tour pros use 5% rather than the 6% that the formula comes up with. 

[heavygolffeels]

I've been forced to experiment with some unconventional setups because I am absolutely terrible with fairways woods off the deck. I played 17* hybrids for a while. Tried 16 and 18 degree driving irons with no luck. Finding the Cobra F6 Baffler was a revelation. Finally gave me a weapon on par 5s and off the tee when needing to layup. That really completed my bag and let me play a pretty normal 13 club setup with D, 4 wood, hybrid, 5-PW, GW, SW LW. 

But then I found the ultimate unicorn...

The Cleveland HiBore XL 2 wood. Very odd club. Is it fugly? Yes. Does it hit straight bombs? Yes. Ok then. Shaft is 44 inches. I'm not sure of the official specs on head size, but I'd put it at 400-420cc. Bigger then mini drivers. The loft is at 16 degrees with a very tall face. Its basically a massive 3 wood. And as such is a tee only club, but its near impossible not to hit the ball high and straight with predictable carry. I find myself using it more and more. Started off as a layup club off the tee. But it launches so freaking high that its great for cutting corners over trees or houses. I've got complete confidence that its never going left which basically puts a form of driver in my hand when the hole was designed to take it out like the 17th at TPC Scottsdale. 

 

 

So now, the bag is somewhat odd with D, 2 wood, 4 wood... etc. 

[Nat]

My buddy, former state AM champ, D1 golfer, mini tour player, D1 coach, now senior exec at an OEM, used to play with a 28” 54* wedge. It was his young son’s, one day he fooled around with it pitching one handed, and found he was lights out. So he played it. Added benefit was it really messed with his opponents in money games

[Deacon Blues]

I only have 11 clubs in the bag: driver, 2 hybrids, 4 irons, 3 wedges and putter. No fairway woods, and 6 degree gaps between my wedges. I have a tendency to overthink, and this simplifies decision-making and helps avoid analysis paralysis.

[WiTerp50]

On 5/17/2022 at 8:32 AM, russtopherb said:

Met a guy last year and ended up playing a few rounds with him, as he's a co-worker of one of my regular playing partners. He's the same way - driver and irons all righty, then all short game is lefty.

I will carry 2 putters - one LH/one RH. Above the hole, I see the line better when setting up above the ball. Will also use iron 48 for full shots and a 50 wedge for partial swings. Otherwise a LH golfer.   Common thread being LH?

[vandyland]

21 hours ago, scooterhd2 said:

But then I found the ultimate unicorn...

Love it @scooterhd2! I love old cleveland woods (check out the Cleveland Classic below) as they have really deep faces which I prefer! As for weird setups, I am still in my 30s and I carry two drivers (a 9* and 12*, both Cobra Speedzones with the same shaft in them). I am much straighter with the 12* but I the 9* is perfect launch conditions for me and carries the ball 30 yards farther and rolls more. From there I go 5W, 4hyb, 5hyb, 6-PW, AW, LW, Putter. And I still have room for a 14th club (sometimes it is a SW if I need it). 

 

[BIG STU]

On 7/13/2022 at 1:18 PM, scooterhd2 said:

I've been forced to experiment with some unconventional setups because I am absolutely terrible with fairways woods off the deck. I played 17* hybrids for a while. Tried 16 and 18 degree driving irons with no luck. Finding the Cobra F6 Baffler was a revelation. Finally gave me a weapon on par 5s and off the tee when needing to layup. That really completed my bag and let me play a pretty normal 13 club setup with D, 4 wood, hybrid, 5-PW, GW, SW LW. 

But then I found the ultimate unicorn...

The Cleveland HiBore XL 2 wood. Very odd club. Is it fugly? Yes. Does it hit straight bombs? Yes. Ok then. Shaft is 44 inches. I'm not sure of the official specs on head size, but I'd put it at 400-420cc. Bigger then mini drivers. The loft is at 16 degrees with a very tall face. Its basically a massive 3 wood. And as such is a tee only club, but its near impossible not to hit the ball high and straight with predictable carry. I find myself using it more and more. Started off as a layup club off the tee. But it launches so freaking high that its great for cutting corners over trees or houses. I've got complete confidence that its never going left which basically puts a form of driver in my hand when the hole was designed to take it out like the 17th at TPC Scottsdale. 

 

 

So now, the bag is somewhat odd with D, 2 wood, 4 wood... etc. 

Just a different marketing ploy--- Lots of manufacturers offer 12* and 13* drivers in their regular line up. And with adjustable drivers these days you can loft some up that high I have been told. Back in the persimmon days with a matched set 2 woods were common usually 2 to 3 degrees different from the driver. And yes the persimmon 2 woods are easy to elevate even with the modern balls. In my vintage play sometimes I play a 2 wood instead of a driver. I know a guy around here now who is a pretty good stick that plays like a 9.5* driver and his other driver is a 11.5* driver then it is a 5 wood. He also carries a Ping driving iron at like 19*. He knows how to use his set up

[heavygolffeels]

1 hour ago, BIG STU said:

Just a different marketing ploy--- Lots of manufacturers offer 12* and 13* drivers in their regular line up. And with adjustable drivers these days you can loft some up that high I have been told. Back in the persimmon days with a matched set 2 woods were common usually 2 to 3 degrees different from the driver. And yes the persimmon 2 woods are easy to elevate even with the modern balls. In my vintage play sometimes I play a 2 wood instead of a driver. I know a guy around here now who is a pretty good stick that plays like a 9.5* driver and his other driver is a 11.5* driver then it is a 5 wood. He also carries a Ping driving iron at like 19*. He knows how to use his set up

This is a little different, and hence why its called a unicorn or goat. They are hard to find at all, and especially under $200 despite being released in 2007 from whats largely considered a 2nd tier manufacture at best. The driver sells for pennies. The 2 wood is different. Its not a 12 degree driver that numerous manufacturers produce. Its 16 degrees of loft. The head is heavy. Mine plays D4 at 44 inches. You cut 12 degree driver to 44 and its playing in the Cs without lead. Very unique club. Most comparable clubs are ladies drivers or old man drivers that are light and tinny. 

[BIG STU]

12 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

This is a little different, and hence why its called a unicorn or goat. They are hard to find at all, and especially under $200 despite being released in 2007 from whats largely considered a 2nd tier manufacture at best. The driver sells for pennies. The 2 wood is different. Its not a 12 degree driver that numerous manufacturers produce. Its 16 degrees of loft. The head is heavy. Mine plays D4 at 44 inches. You cut 12 degree driver to 44 and its playing in the Cs without lead. Very unique club. Most comparable clubs are ladies drivers or old man drivers that are light and tinny. 

Did not realize it was 16*

[revkev]

Well if I didn't answer this earlier in the thread I will now because mine is unique and fitted.

Three years ago I was honored to be selected for the MGS Ping long game thread.  I was coming off of shooting 69 with my set up at that time.  It turned out that I carried 3 wood, 4 hybrid and 5 hybrid the same distance even though they ran out to different numbers (not a good thing in Florida in the summer.)

My fitter also told me that I should get a driver with more loft (I did, he was wrong there, maybe it was the day) and that 6 iron was marginal for me - he was spot on there.  Fortunately we were allowed to order 4 clubs so I got an additional lofted hybrid.  Recently I stuck the 6 iron in the closet and the hybrid is in, I hit it so well!!!  So currently by bag is Driver, 5,7,9 wood, 6 hybrid, 7-GW Wilson D7 forged (they look so sweet and really produce), Edison 53 (bent to 54) and 59 - I miss my SCORs but they are aging.  I'm getting used to the larger Edison foot print.  

[fozcycle]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:36 PM, RoyN said:

Hey I've seen younger guys carry a 5 7 and 9 wood because they cant hit a 3w off the deck and hate hybrids.

I dropped my 3W & 5 iron and now carry a 5W, 7W & 9W

[TitleistMike]

I just bought 1970s Era musclebacks...George Nicoll Royale.

Had them as teenager, made it to scratch and about to put modern shafts in and see what happens with a 60 year old swing instead of 19 year old body !.

 

 

[Slypanther]

 I still occasionally use 70's and 80's muscle back irons to play at home. The head pro asked why would I  sacrifice 25% forgiveness. He doesn't work here anymore.  1978 Hogan Apex II's, 1982 Mac Gregor Jack Nicklaus Murifield, 1 iron is not stamped Murifield into the top back of the club. 1991 Titleist Tour Model. I also sport 1995 MP 29's, 2001 Nike Blade, 2009 Nike Vr Pro, Titleist 712 blades. I may need to  copy/paste to the BST forum.

[BIG STU]

On 7/15/2022 at 1:38 PM, scooterhd2 said:

This is a little different, and hence why its called a unicorn or goat. They are hard to find at all, and especially under $200 despite being released in 2007 from whats largely considered a 2nd tier manufacture at best. The driver sells for pennies. The 2 wood is different. Its not a 12 degree driver that numerous manufacturers produce. Its 16 degrees of loft. The head is heavy. Mine plays D4 at 44 inches. You cut 12 degree driver to 44 and its playing in the Cs without lead. Very unique club. Most comparable clubs are ladies drivers or old man drivers that are light and tinny. 

I would never consider Cleveland Golf a second tier company back when Roger Cleveland owned it. They produced some great forged blade irons and the GOAT wedges the 588s and 900s. They also produced some great putters including the Forged 8802 copy. 

[BIG STU]

On 7/15/2022 at 8:36 PM, TitleistMike said:

I just bought 1970s Era musclebacks...George Nicoll Royale.

Had them as teenager, made it to scratch and about to put modern shafts in and see what happens with a 60 year old swing instead of 19 year old body !.

 

 

Hey I still play muscle back blades front line--- And yes they will hit well with modern shafts even at your age when you get them tuned right for you. There is just something about the old school forged steel

[BIG STU]

On 7/15/2022 at 11:13 PM, Slypanther said:

 I still occasionally use 70's and 80's muscle back irons to play at home. The head pro asked why would I  sacrifice 25% forgiveness. He doesn't work here anymore.  1978 Hogan Apex II's, 1982 Mac Gregor Jack Nicklaus Murifield, 1 iron is not stamped Murifield into the top back of the club. 1991 Titleist Tour Model. I also sport 1995 MP 29's, 2001 Nike Blade, 2009 Nike Vr Pro, Titleist 712 blades. I may need to  copy/paste to the BST forum.

Ha Ha look at my signature I still play a set of Muirfields and that is not my vintage bag that is my front line bag. LOL my vintage bag consists of 1962 FC-4000s. LOL my back up sets are 2 other sets of Muirfields and 2 sets of VIPs. If I really want to get vintage I have a set of 54 Hogan Precisions and a set of 1940 Tommy Armour 3800s with the green Pyratone shaft. For now during the week ( when it is not raining) I play the persimmons with the FCs. Lately the only time I drag the signature set out is in the Saturday Shootouts. I need the modern firepower there because they will not let me play from the more forward tees with the persimmon stuff. They say the more forward tees are for those 70 and older and I am only 65. They did let me do that gag about a year and a half ago in the Shootout when I was recovering from my accident. The course was hard and dry and I was getting a lot of roll from the persimmon. Yeah we steamrolled them that day and they raised hell. Of course it was not all me I had 2 of the best putters at the club on my team and most holes I did not even have to get off the cart at the green.