If "soft is short," then why do the ball manufacturers promote soft balls for slow swing speeds?

[DGA3]

I don't get it!

Pick up just about any box of golf balls, and if your swing speed is slow (say, under 90-95 mph), they always recommend the softest ball with the lowest compression.

 

However, we know that low compression balls are not as long as higher compression balls, so what gives? Do the manufacturers believe that guys (and gals) with slow swing speeds only like balls that feel mushy and soft (despite the fact that some of them do not have urethane covers)?

 

Thoughts?

[03trdblack]

Usually the distance from softer golf balls comes from lower spin and higher launch.

[cnosil]

21 minutes ago, DGA3 said:

I don't get it!

Pick up just about any box of golf balls, and if your swing speed is slow (say, under 90-95 mph), they always recommend the softest ball with the lowest compression.

 

However, we know that low compression balls are not as long as higher compression balls, so what gives? Do the manufacturers believe that guys (and gals) with slow swing speeds only like balls that feel mushy and soft (despite the fact that some of them do not have urethane covers)?

 

Thoughts?

 

because for slower swing speed players the difference in speed and spin is smaller and People like “soft”   

 

https://mygolfspy.com/best-golf-balls-2021/
 

SOFT IS SLOW, BUT …

As we found during our 2019 Golf Ball Test, there is an absolute correlation between compression and ball speed but there are conditions under which softer balls can keep up with firmer balls. For slower players (sub-85 mph), the speed differences are so small that there’s a case to be made for not worrying about it. Among mid to high swing players, those who fall in the high spin category (ballpark 2,800 rpm or more with a driver), lower spin can compensate for the speed lost to lower compression.

Notably, as speed declines, particularly with iron shots, low-compression balls can be a touch faster than firmer ones. Soft is still slow but, under those conditions, it’s the comparably softer covers and mantles of high compression balls that explain the speed differences.

With this in mind, it’s certainly possible that a soft ball could be right for you but also consider that …

SOFT DOESN’T SPIN

While there is not an absolute correlation between compression and spin, the same design principles that make a ball soft invariably lead to a ball that’s lower spinning.

It’s telling that at all three speeds off both driver and irons and with the wedge, the lowest spinning balls were low-compression offerings.

If you’re looking for a bit straighter flight with the driver or to cut spin out of your iron game, soft can work. If you’re looking for more spin on approach shots, it won’t.

 

[DiscipleofPenick]

@cnosil that may be a good question to ask too, why do people like soft? Personally I can't stand marshmallow balls. I'm not a fan of the Xfirm like Left Dash, but I want to know I hit the ball. Currently play Z-Star/ProV1.

[cnosil]

1 minute ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

@cnosil that may be a good question to ask too, why do people like soft? Personally I can't stand marshmallow balls. I'm not a fan of the Xfirm like Left Dash, but I want to know I hit the ball. Currently play Z-Star/ProV1.

Don’t know why people like soft.  Maybe it is related to a thought about how a ball is supposed to feel coming off the club at impact…..that muted forged iron feel that has little to no feedback at impact and makes you think you pured the shot.  
 

I personally can play anything; balls don’t feel that much different to me.  

[Hook DeLoft]

Some older golfers may still associate soft with better. When I started playing in the ‘90s cheap distance balls were hard and balata covered wound balls were soft. People called Top Flite balls “Rock Flights .”

[revkev]

The simple answer is because people buy them.

 

Having grown up in the balata era I can tell you that the so called soft balls of today feel nothing like those golf balls did.  I can also tell you that while I enjoyed playing balata I generally didn't because of the cost.  Remember that those balls scuffed and cut very easily.  It was rare that they could be used for more than 9 holes.  Also course conditions were much different back then (60's-90's pre pro VI days.)  There was not the obsession with fast and firm greens nor the type of equipment necessary to keep greens in those conditions at most courses.  Country clubs may have kept their greens faster but they generally watered frequently enough that their greens held.  For me balata was not worth the cost, sacrifice of distance.  I didn't play topflit/pinnacle but did play better surlyn covered balls back then almost exclusively.  If we had drought conditions and things firmed up I would switch to balata.    

[GolfSpy TCB]

48 minutes ago, Hook DeLoft said:

Some older golfers may still associate soft with better. When I started playing in the ‘90s cheap distance balls were hard and balata covered wound balls were soft. People called Top Flite balls “Rock Flights .”

I remember when the Precept Lady was the craze... low swing speed golfers across the courses were flocking to grab their wife's ball to get some magic distance... all the comments above apply... the "Lady" was a low compression ball (even balata balls of the time came in 90 and 100 compression).  The lower compression created lower spin off the driver, which added the length for the lower swing speeds... but you couldn't get them to stop on the greens.  Physics never changes... just understanding how it applies to the golf game has improved.   

[GolfSpy TCB]

2 minutes ago, revkev said:

The simple answer is because people buy them.

 

Having grown up in the balata era I can tell you that the so called soft balls of today feel nothing like those golf balls did.  I can also tell you that while I enjoyed playing balata I generally didn't because of the cost.  Remember that those balls scuffed and cut very easily.  It was rare that they could be used for more than 9 holes.  Also course conditions were much different back then (60's-90's pre pro VI days.)  There was not the obsession with fast and firm greens nor the type of equipment necessary to keep greens in those conditions at most courses.  Country clubs may have kept their greens faster but they generally watered frequently enough that their greens held.  For me balata was not worth the cost, sacrifice of distance.  I didn't play topflit/pinnacle but did play better surlyn covered balls back then almost exclusively.  If we had drought conditions and things firmed up I would switch to balata.    

Yes Rev... back in the day when we all had the ball tool hanging from our bag... the one you stuck your balata in, twirled it around on the equator, and if it stuck... that bladed shot on the last hole made the ball unplayable... good times.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

@cnosil that may be a good question to ask too, why do people like soft? Personally I can't stand marshmallow balls. I'm not a fan of the Xfirm like Left Dash, but I want to know I hit the ball. Currently play Z-Star/ProV1.

People prefer the sound and feel of softer balls. You see that in lots of comments about how some premium balls sound clicky or loud. Some of that sound and feel come from contact point on the clubface. Softer ball makes the mishits sound better. 
 

The other is the old notion that slower swing speeds can’t properly compress a high compression ball

[Hook DeLoft]

2 hours ago, Tiftaaft said:

I remember when the Precept Lady was the craze... low swing speed golfers across the courses were flocking to grab their wife's ball to get some magic distance... all the comments above apply... the "Lady" was a low compression ball (even balata balls of the time came in 90 and 100 compression).  The lower compression created lower spin off the driver, which added the length for the lower swing speeds... but you couldn't get them to stop on the greens.  Physics never changes... just understanding how it applies to the golf game has improved.   

Your post made me think of something else. 100 compression balata balls seemed to feel softer than current 100 compression balls. My guess is the modern ball is louder off the club face and the sound affects the perception of feel. 

[Middler]

17 hours ago, revkev said:

The simple answer is because people buy them.

17 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

People prefer the sound and feel of softer balls. You see that in lots of comments about how some premium balls sound clicky or loud. Some of that sound and feel come from contact point on the clubface. Softer ball makes the mishits sound better. 
 

The other is the old notion that slower swing speeds can’t properly compress a high compression ball.

+1, all my answers have been covered…

I don’t play soft balls. I only buy Maxfli Tours or ProV1’s. If I find another brand 3/4/5 piece cast urethane ball in pristine condition I’ll give it a go to try it.

[fixyurdivot]

8 hours ago, cnosil said:

I personally can play anything; balls don’t feel that much different to me.

Capturing this for my own sanity... just when I thought I was the only one .  In my case not only do they not feel that much different but only a very few have shown any appreciable difference from tee to green.  Without success, I've played a good many H2H two ball rounds in attempt to sift out a ball or two that really stand out. I will say that some of the "soft compression" balls (i.e. Srixon Soft Feel and Titleist Tour Soft) are not as loud off the driver. 

In answer to the OP question, it seems most still stick to the adage that swing speed and ball compression go hand in hand which is, as has already been pointed out, not as applicable to current ball technology/construction.  

 

 

[cnosil]

35 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Capturing this for my own sanity... just when I thought I was the only one .  In my case not only do they not feel that much different but only a very few have shown any appreciable difference from tee to green.  Without success, I've played a good many H2H two ball rounds in attempt to sift out a ball or two that really stand out. I will say that some of the "soft compression" balls (i.e. Srixon Soft Feel and Titleist Tour Soft) are not as loud off the driver. 

 

 

I player higher end balls simply because I don't lose that many which makes the cost low and when I practice at MGS I typically use their ProV1s.  From a performance perspective I hit full swing shots pretty high with a moderate amount of spin which means they don't spin back and release a little bit.    Short game spin is also pretty low so I can't play the hop and stop type shot so everything releases.  since I swing in the 105+ range I do get better performance from the higher compression balls.  

[revkev]

14 hours ago, Riverboat said:

These answers can be found from a number of members on many threads, but let me summarize the big 4 reasons from my own perspective..

1. My swing speed is mid 90s, and my own side by side testing says low compression balls are longer for me, not a ton, but 5-10 yards or so. Don't care what MGS says, I believe my own results first and foremost.

2. The low compression balls are the best thing I've ever done for my golfer's elbow, bad wrists, and aching back. I could not play every day with 90+ compression balls. I feel the shock of impact in every sore joint.

3. I, and many others judging by responses I've read on the forum, prefer release and roll golf to stop it quick golf. I don't generate a ton of spin on most shots, so judging release and roll with a ball that doesn't spin as much is far more consistent for me than urethane balls. I hate it when I pure that couple of shots a round and premium balls check up or even back up, leaving me with a long putt when my soft surlyn ball would have released and rolled like I planned for.

4. This is more of a bonus than a reason, but my 2 favorite balls, both 50 compression (Vice Drive and Wilson Fifty Elite) can be found regularly for under a dollar a ball.

For reference, I'm a 6 handicap, and that seems to be headed down. I shoot in the 70s regularly from the regular men's tees at age 60, and usually shoot par or better a number of times each year. There is more than one way to play this game relatively successfully. Many on this forum acknowledge this, although some, including the MGS guys seem to have a real problem understanding that fact.

I certainly agree with your reasoning for using the softer ball although I would not call 5-10 yards a bit longer, I'd call it significant as in at least a stroke per 18 holes.  If you could show me a ball that was ten yards longer for me than my gamer I'd go with it in a heartbeat and adjust accordingly.

 

My only question is when do the MGS guys say it's wrong to use a soft ball?  They have their slogan, yes, but there are any number of other places where they acknowledge that there are some players that a softer ball works well for.  Their general rule has always been that nearly every piece of equipment is the best fit for someone.  

 

For example you and I have similar games based on what you're writing.  But I don't do well with a soft ball, don't like the way it feels and loose distance (probably because I play in wet conditions so the lower spin is of little benefit to me there) with driver.  I do gain distance with irons so it's probably a push.  I loose very few balls so I don't mind playing high end ones and I prefer the spin that I get with them around the green - but again this could be a difference in course conditions - our greens tend to be extremely firm and fast so the spin is needed - neither of us is wrong, we just approach the game differently and that's part of what makes it so much fun.

[fixyurdivot]

13 hours ago, cnosil said:

 

I player higher end balls simply because I don't lose that many which makes the cost low and when I practice at MGS I typically use their ProV1s.  From a performance perspective I hit full swing shots pretty high with a moderate amount of spin which means they don't spin back and release a little bit.    Short game spin is also pretty low so I can't play the hop and stop type shot so everything releases.  since I swing in the 105+ range I do get better performance from the higher compression balls.  

When I went to my TrueSpec fitting he asked what ball I usually play.  I answered ProV1 simply because I seriously doubted they had any Velocity or Kirkland Sig+ in the bucket .  No, I do play PV1's quite often but mostly because I have found so many over the years (they are also the #1 Lost Ball in golf). Curious what "better performance" you see with higher compression balls; distance, short game, both?  If distance, how much?  

If forced to identify one ball that, based on my H2H course play testing, stands out, it would be the Maxfli Tour.  But the difference is quite small and I'm not convinced it would yield better scoring day in and day out.  This past winter season I posted a matching personal best (74) and another of my four sub 80 rounds (78) with a Velocity.

[DiscipleofPenick]

I just know, after on course use, that I will lose distance playing a soft ball. When it gets down around 75 compression like the Chrome Soft or Q-Star Tour, I know those balls fly a club or club and a half shorter than my normal gamers. I know I'm on the younger side and have a decent swing speed of 107, so I can understand why these don't work for me. And I agree with other comments that the x-firm balls are clicky and I don't care for that, but really only in the short game. The sound doesn't bother me on full shots, and really it's more about the expected performance around the green than the sound. Just like other spies were mentioning they are familiar with how their surlyn balls roll out, I am familiar with the one hop stop of the medium firm balls and I want to stick with that.

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Curious what "better performance" you see with higher compression balls; distance, short game, both?  If distance, how much?  

 

I want the ball to land and stop and the tour level balls generally do that for me.  I can say specifically more distance but maybe more consistent distance and less penalizing on misshits.  Maybe the lower compression balls just don’t spin enough for me resulting in poorer performance.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Curious what "better performance" you see with higher compression balls; distance, short game, both?  If distance, how much?  

For me it’s better control with irons and wedges. But that’s not across the board. The left dash prov1x suck for me around the greens. I have no problem with bump and run or with flying the ball to the hole with most premium balls. Iron and driver distance vary between some so I have given up on the Bridgestone balls and it’s predominantly prov1 for me with prov1x and tp5 or tp5x mixed in

[revkev]

I would echo what others are saying about premium balls - in the ball fittings that I've done I've been fit for that brand's Pro VIx type ball and since my club generally has a buy 3 get one special that's what I generally play - I don't loose many balls - I still have over two dozen usable balls, 2 dozen new ones from the 4 dozen that I received over a year ago.  

 

I've twice been involved in Ball Tests for MGS.  In both cases the Pro VIx that I normally gain was measurably longer than the ball that I was testing.  I'm not long to begin with so that matters to me.  I have no issues playing bump and run with that ball - a month or so ago I jumped in with my Middle School golf team and used whatever equipment that I found in the bag I was carrying for the 9 holes that I played.  The balls were pinnacles - I just used less club around the greens (where I would chip normally with 52, I chipped with 56 or whatever the SW was from the set).  I can adjust.  But had I played with that ball for an extended period of time there would have been shots that I wanted to play that could not have been played or had I been playing with it at my club where greens are faster and firmer it may not have done as well.

 

So for me I'm going to stick with what I know works.  I know that the ball I use best fits my game and the equipment that I play - I wouldn't pretend to know what works best for someone else unless I play with them regularly.  I also think it's wisest to use the same ball all the time - there are differences between balls, maybe not huge ones but there are differences - besides times when you are trying other balls out why make it harder than it needs to be by introducing a second variable.  

[BIG STU]

On 5/24/2022 at 11:31 AM, Tiftaaft said:

Yes Rev... back in the day when we all had the ball tool hanging from our bag... the one you stuck your balata in, twirled it around on the equator, and if it stuck... that bladed shot on the last hole made the ball unplayable... good times.  

LOL I still have mine over in the other building attached to my white Ping Staff bag

[03trdblack]

Perfect timing for this video to come out since it relates to this conversation.

 

[DiscipleofPenick]

31 minutes ago, Riverboat said:

Way too long and tedious for me to watch. For someone who enjoys this stuff, could you tell us what they found in a couple of sentences? Sorry...I always liked crib notes too.

I watch a lot of the TXG stuff. You can jump ahead in the video to when they have the stats up on the screen and you'll see the results. Otherwise the video is just a dude hitting balls into a screen. They could cut 80% from their videos and just tell me the results without having to watch someone hit balls.

[cnosil]

On 5/27/2022 at 12:35 PM, Riverboat said:

Way too long and tedious for me to watch. For someone who enjoys this stuff, could you tell us what they found in a couple of sentences? Sorry...I always liked crib notes too.

Person hitting was a high speed player (140 SS, 190 ball speed).  With high spe3d players easier to show effects since it magnifies things like launch, spin, and speed.  
 

results - 6 iron(215ish carry) and Pw(150ish carry), the softer ball had about same ball speed, was higher launching and lower spinning than the high compression ball.  On the driver the higher compression ball had higher ball speed,  higher launch, and lower spin.  
 

interestimg note:  for most amateurs peak height for driver should equal 6 iron clubhead speed.  For higher speed players, driver clubhead speed should equal driver peak height