Electric Car Purchase

[sirchunksalot]

53 minutes ago, yungkory said:

In other news, it's obvious that VW follows this thread and/or takes what I say to heart (extreme sarcasm) because the 2023 ID.4 no longer has a random brown dash. Maybe @sirchunksalot passed that info along that no one actually liked it, they just settled.

Likely going to put a reservation on an ID.4 RWD. I don't think there's a better value currently. Really wish we would get the ID.3 and ID.5 in the states but you folks on the mainland prefer massive SUVs so apparently there's only a market for that, lol.

What can I say? I'm pretty big at VW.  

I honestly don't think anyone important knows I exist, but I was in the reveal of the CrossSport on the local news. 

I'm actually surprised you find the I.D.4 to be big, but I guess after working on the Atlas for the last 6 years, anything looks smaller to me. I haven't noticed the lack of a brown dash recently, but I'm relegated to pitch 3 where I install intermediate pieces on the HVAC along with deformation elements and don't see the actual skin. 

[MDGolfHacker]

21 minutes ago, Kanoito said:

My wife had the same concerns about a full EV, and she is the one who chauffers the kids every day, so she got the GLE Coupe Hybrid. If you consider the BMW X5, might take a look at Benz... I liked it more.

Speaking of which, just picked up my Q4 etron on Monday and I'm loving the acceleration. Not a fan of the robot in space ship sound effects though.

Thanks for the info.  I had a talk with my neighbor who is also looking at getting an electric car (he's leaning towards an ionic 5 with the fight being color).  Wife heard the conversation so she's now more amiable to getting a fully electric vehicle..

 

MdGolfHacker 

[Middler]

The Ioniq 5 looks great, the Ioniq 6 and Ioniq 7 look even better though very different obviously.

[GaDawg]

Be careful guys, y'all are getting close to discussing politics. I have a hard time biting my tongue and don't want to get banned before I complete my test on the Precision Pro range finder.

[bens197]

20 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

Be careful guys, y'all are getting close to discussing politics. I have a hard time biting my tongue and don't want to get banned before I complete my test on the Precision Pro range finder.

Cmon Dawg. You know possession is 9/10 of the law

[jddaigneault]

3 hours ago, bens197 said:

There are plenty of reasons to dislike him and this one is certainly valid. 

I saw a Mach E in the wild this afternoon at Wegmans. I asked the driver if she wouldn’t mind if I peered in the windows to take a peek.

By my best estimate, a set of clubs would fit in the rear

She said range is anywhere from 280-310 and she thoroughly enjoys driving hers. 

I would imagine some of the delays are a result  of the pandemic. With this level of demand I think you’ll see that 32 month number trimmed down soon.  

I can confirm clubs will definitely fit in the back. Brought mine to the dealership to test it out. 

[jddaigneault]

3 hours ago, Middler said:

The Ioniq 5 looks great, the Ioniq 6 and Ioniq 7 look even better though very different obviously.

They’re definitely getting a different vibe going with the newer Ioniqs. I imagine people will be very polarized on these. I like them!

[bens197]

3 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

I can confirm clubs will definitely fit in the back. Brought mine to the dealership to test it out. 

I’m still not all-in on electric cars. My brother drives a Model Y and loves it and is considering trading up for a Rivian. 
 

It’s not the technology, for me I just don’t drive a ton. I put maybe 6,000 miles on my Atlas per year so fuel costs were never a giant concern. I loathe the thought of spending time at a car dealer and I hate depreciable assets. 
 

So maybe in a few years I’ll take a shot and if so, it should be something fun like this because let’s be honest, you confirmed that my clubs will fit

[yungkory]

40 minutes ago, bens197 said:

I’m still not all-in on electric cars. My brother drives a Model Y and loves it and is considering trading up for a Rivian. 
 

It’s not the technology, for me I just don’t drive a ton. I put maybe 6,000 miles on my Atlas per year so fuel costs were never a giant concern. I loathe the thought of spending time at a car dealer and I hate depreciable assets. 
 

So maybe in a few years I’ll take a shot and if so, it should be something fun like this because let’s be honest, you confirmed that my clubs will fit

On the topic of depreciating assets, I think we'll see EVs holding value much more than combustion engine cars simply due to the fact that there is less that can break. Don't know if that contributes more to them selling much higher than MSRP as used vehicles than the current shortage and demand, but it's something.

Going to be interesting to see when people who have first generation Teslas have to replace their batteries. Right now I think the lifespan is rather unknown whereas if I see a used car for sale with 150k miles I'm really wondering how much longer until it kicks the bucket.

[chisag]

2 hours ago, bens197 said:

I’m still not all-in on electric cars. My brother drives a Model Y and loves it and is considering trading up for a Rivian. 
 

It’s not the technology, for me I just don’t drive a ton. I put maybe 6,000 miles on my Atlas per year so fuel costs were never a giant concern. I loathe the thought of spending time at a car dealer and I hate depreciable assets.

 

... I feel some confidence with the 10yr`100k miles warranty with Hyundai batteries. I have never owned a car for 100k miles and certainly not 10 years LOL. My ZIP battery is silly reliable and bought an electric mower that is much quieter and again very reliable. As a lifelong hippie I have to walk the walk when it comes to climate change so doing my part with an electric car. The thought of never having to pump gas or wait in line at Costco is also an incentive.

... The nice thing about my Genesis and Hyundai dealer here in Phoenix is the cars are so hot many are charging a $5,000 "market adjustment" but my dealer sells for sticker only so no haggling. Although I admit I find haggling with car salesman a guilty pleasure. 

[jddaigneault]

2 hours ago, bens197 said:

I’m still not all-in on electric cars. My brother drives a Model Y and loves it and is considering trading up for a Rivian. 
 

It’s not the technology, for me I just don’t drive a ton. I put maybe 6,000 miles on my Atlas per year so fuel costs were never a giant concern. I loathe the thought of spending time at a car dealer and I hate depreciable assets. 
 

So maybe in a few years I’ll take a shot and if so, it should be something fun like this because let’s be honest, you confirmed that my clubs will fit

What’s crazy is that Teslas have barely depreciated. They’re retaining value surprisingly well. My brother in law has one and it’s worth 3k more than he paid for it three plus years ago. Granted, prices are crazy right now. 

[jddaigneault]

8 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I feel some confidence with the 10yr`100k miles warranty with Hyundai batteries. I have never owned a car for 100k miles and certainly not 10 years LOL. My ZIP battery is silly reliable and bought an electric mower that is much quieter and again very reliable. As a lifelong hippie I have to walk the walk when it comes to climate change so doing my part with an electric car. The thought of never having to pump gas or wait in line at Costco is also an incentive.

... The nice thing about my Genesis and Hyundai dealer here in Phoenix is the cars are so hot many are charging a $5,000 "market adjustment" but my dealer sells for sticker only so no haggling. Although I admit I find haggling with car salesman a guilty pleasure. 

Haggling is part of the fun! I do enjoy the Tesla model where you don’t even have to deal with a dealer. Just order online and have it show up at your house (months later). 

[chisag]

On 8/7/2022 at 11:53 AM, yungkory said:

Just FYI, if you're in the states, and this current bill passes.

Foreign-made EVs will no longer receive the $7500 tax credit. For me, it means cancelling the reservation we have on the Audi Q4 e-tron, because in addition to them jacking the MSRP up (before they've even delivered a single one stateside btw) after stealership markup, and now without a $7500 rebate, the car is out of budget.

This also means that for folks who were eyeing the GV60 ( @chisag ), Ioniq5, or Kia EV6 unless your car is delivered before Jan 1, 2023 it will not qualify either. I know Hyundai is building a production facility in GA, so in a few years it'll be at least partially manufactured in the US.

 

... Well, thanks for the good joke on the Haole. Went in to the Hyundai dealer today to order a Ioniq 5 and they aren't taking any orders because they have 62 orders waiting that have all left a 1k deposit and they are only getting 6 cars a month. Gonna have to figure out what I want to do but it looks like next summer before I can get a Ioniq 5 or a GV60. I gotta say the Ioniq 5 looks much better in person than it does in pictures. My one hope is some ask for their deposit back if their Ioniq doesn't arrive before Jan 1st but I am not holding my breath. 

[bens197]

3 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Well, thanks for the good joke on the Haole. Went in to the Hyundai dealer today to order a Ioniq 5 and they aren't taking any orders because they have 62 orders waiting that have all left a 1k deposit and they are only getting 6 cars a month. Gonna have to figure out what I want to do but it looks like next summer before I can get a Ioniq 5 or a GV60. I gotta say the Ioniq 5 looks much better in person than it does in pictures. My one hope is some ask for their deposit back if their Ioniq doesn't arrive before Jan 1st but I am not holding my breath. 

Ford went ahead and raised the Lightning price $8,500 while citing increased costs.

Heck of a coincidence reading this after the $7,500 credit was announced...

[chisag]

Just now, bens197 said:

Ford went ahead and raised the Lightning price $8,500 while citing increased costs.

Heck of a coincidence reading this after the $7,500 credit was announced...

 

... Crazy. Other than my dealer here in Phoenix, all the others are charging a $5k to $10k "Market Adjustment" for the Ioniq 5 which of course means we are so far behind and they are in such demand that people are wiling to pay an extra $5-10k just to get an EV so we are going to gouge customers. Probably why my dealer has 62 orders because they never charge over the sticker price. .

[bens197]

39 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Crazy. Other than my dealer here in Phoenix, all the others are charging a $5k to $10k "Market Adjustment" for the Ioniq 5 which of course means we are so far behind and they are in such demand that people are wiling to pay an extra $5-10k just to get an EV so we are going to gouge customers. Probably why my dealer has 62 orders because they never charge over the sticker price. .

Same thing happened last year when my friend wanted a new Wrangler.  He saw the price breakdown and $15,000 for dealer service fee

Whats this?

It's our fee.

Bye.

Walked out and his phone rang 2 hours later.  Hey, so what could we do to get you to buy the Jeep?  Waive the fee.

How about $5,000.

 

He hung up and went to the dealer 30 minutes north and bought the same Jeep without the fee. 

Pure greed.

[jddaigneault]

15 hours ago, bens197 said:

Ford went ahead and raised the Lightning price $8,500 while citing increased costs.

Heck of a coincidence reading this after the $7,500 credit was announced...

I’m nervous to see how much the Mach E goes up by. My 2022 order is being rolled into 2023. 

[alfriday101]

1 minute ago, jddaigneault said:

I’m nervous to see how much the Mach E goes up by. My 2022 order is being rolled into 2023. 

Did you get a price when you made the reservation?  My wife had a set order price on her MachE, which she paid even though the price went up since her order.  

[bens197]

6 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

I’m nervous to see how much the Mach E goes up by. My 2022 order is being rolled into 2023. 

Sadly...it's going to go up...

Any thoughts I had in purchasing one have been drowned by the concern of them jacking prices...I don't care what anyone says...this EV credit is going to create demand.  I'll just have to wait until it simmers down.

[chisag]

16 minutes ago, bens197 said:

Sadly...it's going to go up...

Any thoughts I had in purchasing one have been drowned by the concern of them jacking prices...I don't care what anyone says...this EV credit is going to create demand.  I'll just have to wait until it simmers down.

 

... It will be interesting to see if the new EV credit has a positive or negative effect. Considering even if your car/suv/truck does qualify for the instant rebate anyone making over 150k is ineligible. Not sure how many under that figure are looking at a $50-90k EV. Of course the prices will come down as more and more companies start offering EV's but at the same time supplies are in such short supply it will be hard to build EV's. Still pi$$ed that one guy could change the entire EV future. Unfair imo for Tesla and GM to reap the benefits of the 200,000 sales limit for the tax credit but now everyone else doesn't get that opportunity. 

[bens197]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... It will be interesting to see if the new EV credit has a positive or negative effect. Considering even if your car/suv/truck does qualify for the instant rebate anyone making over 150k is ineligible. Not sure how many under that figure are looking at a $50-90k EV. Of course the prices will come down as more and more companies start offering EV's but at the same time supplies are in such short supply it will be hard to build EV's. Still pi$$ed that one guy could change the entire EV future. Unfair imo for Tesla and GM to reap the benefits of the 200,000 sales limit for the tax credit but now everyone else doesn't get that opportunity. 

If history is any indicator, there is still a demographic who believe driving a $50,000 car to a job they hate is a flex. 
 

Cars will always sell. 

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, bens197 said:

If history is any indicator, there is still a demographic who believe driving a $50,000 car to a job they hate is a flex. 
 

Cars will always sell. 

 

... Oh I hear ya and never attempt to predict what the general public will do. It just seems like so many are reluctant to embrace an EV to begin with and until they offer some pick up trucks in the $25-35K range it just seems like an uphill battle. Every 3rd auto in Phoenix seems to be a pick up with plenty of them tricked out vanity pick ups, some regular use, others work related and more than a few that look like they have 100 more miles in them before they collapse. But again, I just have no idea what the public will do after the $7500 tax credit disappears. It really stings to pay that extra $7500 when I have had an EV on order for 1.5 years but since so many are gouging customers $5-10k I guess I can live with the stick price. 

[MDGolfHacker]

On 8/7/2022 at 8:57 PM, jddaigneault said:

They’re definitely getting a different vibe going with the newer Ioniqs. I imagine people will be very polarized on these. I like them!

I've got to see these in person. Sometimes pictures don't do a car justice

On 8/7/2022 at 11:29 PM, jddaigneault said:

Haggling is part of the fun! I do enjoy the Tesla model where you don’t even have to deal with a dealer. Just order online and have it show up at your house (months later). 

I'm in the opposite camp on this one.  I hate haggling for car prices.

18 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Well, thanks for the good joke on the Haole. Went in to the Hyundai dealer today to order a Ioniq 5 and they aren't taking any orders because they have 62 orders waiting that have all left a 1k deposit and they are only getting 6 cars a month. Gonna have to figure out what I want to do but it looks like next summer before I can get a Ioniq 5 or a GV60. I gotta say the Ioniq 5 looks much better in person than it does in pictures. My one hope is some ask for their deposit back if their Ioniq doesn't arrive before Jan 1st but I am not holding my breath. 

Dealers are laughing all the way to the bank on these days.  My neighbor was on the hunt for the Ionic 5 after looking at the Volkswagon ID4 Pro.  Had a spreadsheet and all that he shared with me.  A most dealerships were including dealer mark ups but two didn't.  Of course it was all mute as nobody had inventory.

17 hours ago, bens197 said:

Same thing happened last year when my friend wanted a new Wrangler.  He saw the price breakdown and $15,000 for dealer service fee

Whats this?

It's our fee.

Bye.

Walked out and his phone rang 2 hours later.  Hey, so what could we do to get you to buy the Jeep?  Waive the fee.

How about $5,000.

 

He hung up and went to the dealer 30 minutes north and bought the same Jeep without the fee. 

Pure greed.

Yep, sure it.

 

2 hours ago, jddaigneault said:

I’m nervous to see how much the Mach E goes up by. My 2022 order is being rolled into 2023. 

Good luck.  My other neighbor put in an order for a work truck from Ford a year ago.  I think he said they only jacked the price up once, and only a couple thousand.  He had no choice as he needs a new work truck to replace one that has the body rusting through.

2 hours ago, bens197 said:

Sadly...it's going to go up...

Any thoughts I had in purchasing one have been drowned by the concern of them jacking prices...I don't care what anyone says...this EV credit is going to create demand.  I'll just have to wait until it simmers down.

Yep.  I had a neighbor who had put down 10K on a Kia PHEV then called me and said an Ionic 5 was being sold up the street from a dropped sale.  I told him to go for it but he had to figure out if he can back out of the KIA he put a down payment on. 10 minutes later he go a call and said the car was sold.  The prices are so ridiculous that I'm now considering just buying an ICE vehicle (which are also jacked up but not as much) until the price gouging dies down

2 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... It will be interesting to see if the new EV credit has a positive or negative effect. Considering even if your car/suv/truck does qualify for the instant rebate anyone making over 150k is ineligible. Not sure how many under that figure are looking at a $50-90k EV. Of course the prices will come down as more and more companies start offering EV's but at the same time supplies are in such short supply it will be hard to build EV's. Still pi$$ed that one guy could change the entire EV future. Unfair imo for Tesla and GM to reap the benefits of the 200,000 sales limit for the tax credit but now everyone else doesn't get that opportunity. 

I had mixed feelings about the new EV credit.  On the one hand, I liked the tax credit for used vehicles (or was it an instant credit?  I'm still unclear on that aspect).  On the other hand, they killed any type of rebates for cars not manufactured in the US so pretty much all vehicles from Kia, Hyundai, and almost all of Toyota will no longer qualify.  That IMHO will slow down the quicker acceptance of EVs.

[chisag]

5 minutes ago, MDGolfHacker said:

I had mixed feelings about the new EV credit.  On the one hand, I liked the tax credit for used vehicles (or was it an instant credit?  I'm still unclear on that aspect).  On the other hand, they killed any type of rebates for cars not manufactured in the US so pretty much all vehicles from Kia, Hyundai, and almost all of Toyota will no longer qualify.  That IMHO will slow down the quicker acceptance of EVs.

 

... No doubt this will slow it down. Obviously the tax credit was an incentive to switch from gas to electric. Much needed with global warming and I know it is a drop in the bucket but every little bit helps. 

[jddaigneault]

On 8/16/2022 at 9:34 AM, alfriday101 said:

Did you get a price when you made the reservation?  My wife had a set order price on her MachE, which she paid even though the price went up since her order.  

Yes, but I’m not sure if that will change if it moves to a 2023. 

[Thin2win]

I bought the KIA Sorento PHEV this year, its been pretty awesome. The tax credit for me was ~$6800. I haven't seen every detail on the newly signed bill, but it does look like there aren't many(any) cars made today that will qualify for a credit based off its requirements.

Definitely if someone is looking at the EV, the credit helps. But every model is going to be different. For me, the credit didn't spur me to get one, but it didn't hurt either.

I had purchased a new SUV in Jan of 2021. It was right before car prices went nuts and the dealer had a surplus and gave me a great price. After using it to move from one side of Washington state to the other and putting 20k miles on it in a year, it was worth more then we paid for it...  now that our daily driving needs are just out and about errands, the EV range on the PHEV (32 miles) covers 95% of our driving. I got the Sorento without paying a dealer markup, but it took time to find a dealer that wasn't greedy. Between trading in my old car for more then I paid for it, and the difference in $ per mile, I'm saving about $200 a month on the transaction between car payment and gas / electricity usage.

I did look at Rav4 Primes, and Ionic 5's. The dealer markups on those were crazy. I couldn't find a Prime with less then 35% markup on MSRP.

[Middler]

On 8/15/2022 at 8:37 PM, bens197 said:

Ford went ahead and raised the Lightning price $8,500 while citing increased costs.

Heck of a coincidence reading this after the $7,500 credit was announced...

I may be missing your drift. For the most part Ford still had most of the $7500 Federal tax credit from the 2010-2017 legislation, only Tesla and GM had exhausted the original 200,000 unit threshold. Under the new legislation, Tesla and GM have the credit restored with some stipulations.

[yungkory]

For selfish personal finance issues, the new bill sucks.

For domestic production and economy reasons, it's kinda nice.

Just glad I didn't wait any longer before we got the Ioniq 5.

[dlow206]

I keep telling myself that i want my next truck to be the Ford Lightning.

but then I see the Ford Raptor R. electric car or supercharged v8, tough choice

[GolfSpy_APH]

Permits finally came through. Long time waiting and very stressful. Don't actually receive it till the end of the month, but at least we know its approved and all we need to do now is get the paper, send it to the dealership and within a week or so pick up the car!

The timing is good, because the vehicle inspection for BMW which we are trading in is coming up so I'll be able to trade in the vehicle before having to pay for that and any fixes the car may need.