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10 hours ago, jddaigneault said:

The used car market is ridiculous. I’m going to be able to sell my 10 year old Hyundai Sonata for $10k. That definitely helps soften the blow of the upfront EV cost. 

Absolutely insane, my car is worth $5k less after 5 years!

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On 5/25/2022 at 2:16 PM, alfriday101 said:

To me, here are the important factors when considering electric cars, US specific:

1.. Can you charge at home?

2.  How often do you really drive beyond the range of the car in a day?

3.  Availability of charging stations in areas you travel.

4.  Cost of electricity (much cheaper at both our Iowa and Florida houses than gas, even before the recent price hikes.)

 

EVs make perfect sense for many people, but not everyone. In the US, about 80% of EVs charging happens at homes overnight while sleeping (might want 220V), and most EV owners don’t drive more than 150 miles (usually much less) per day - so range and finding charging stations is an exception. Though they may have to wait for a charge at a remote charging stations a few times a year, they NEVER have to stop for gas the other 340+ days a year, and BEVs require much less regular maintenance than ICE cars. Most EVs these days have a real range of 200-300 miles, a little less than the optimal that some EV companies advertise.

Many people don’t go more than 150 miles in a day or on longer trips more than a few times a year. When they do they take their second ICE car on long trips, plan out charging stops when needed or spring for a rental (for that once a year cross country trip). To categorically rule out an EV due to “range” is shortsighted for most drivers. Many/most people who dismiss EVs for range concerns haven’t stopped to consider their actual driving habits - how many times a year do you actually drive more than the practical range of an EV? If you drive long distances often, need high load/towing capability, are a one car household, and/or can’t charge at home (apartments?) an EV probably doesn’t make sense - but many drivers don’t have those constraints.

Not all EVs or chargers are created equal. Some EVs can charge to 80% in 15-30 minutes, but yes some take hours. You’d have to look into a specific EV and charging stations in your area. Experienced EV owners will typically do several shorter duration partial charges on a long trip, instead of running until the battery is almost dead and waiting for a full charge at one stop. The Tesla interface, and some others, will show you all the charging stations on your route and even available stalls in real time. Apple Maps, Google Maps and Waze can display charging stations on your route or in your vicinity. At least in the US, Tesla owners have access to over 19,000 charging stalls at 4500+ charging stations (Tesla superchargers and destination chargers), way more plentiful than others. With other brands you should do your homework. There are over 30,000 charging stalls worldwide for Teslas, Superchargers for Teslas and destination chargers for all. More charging stations are being built every day!

It’s best to do your homework to see if an EV makes sense for your situation, it works very well for millions. Other than Chevy Bolt owners and a few others, I haven’t met an EV owner who regrets buying one yet.

We’ve had 4 hybrids but not a BEV yet. Had to buy a car Oct 2021 and definitely would have bought a Tesla Model Y, but the waiting list at that time was Jun to Oct 2022 depending on which model!

For two car families, one EV and an ICE is a no brainer IME - but most of the population is so unfamiliar with EVs they don’t know what they don’t know. People still ask me if we have to plug in our hybrids (no), even though HEVs have been around for over 20 years…

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5 hours ago, Middler said:

EVs make perfect sense for many people, but not everyone. In the US, about 80% of EVs charging happens at homes overnight while sleeping (might want 220V), and most EV owners don’t drive more than 150 miles (usually much less) per day - so range and finding charging stations is an exception. Though they may have to wait for a charge at a remote charging stations a few times a year, they NEVER have to stop for gas the other 340+ days a year, and BEVs require much less regular maintenance than ICE cars. Most EVs these days have a real range of 200-300 miles, a little less than the optimal that some EV companies advertise.

Many people don’t go more than 150 miles in a day or on longer trips more than a few times a year. When they do they take their second ICE car on long trips, plan out charging stops when needed or spring for a rental (for that once a year cross country trip). To categorically rule out an EV due to “range” is shortsighted for most drivers. Many/most people who dismiss EVs for range concerns haven’t stopped to consider their actual driving habits - how many times a year do you actually drive more than the practical range of an EV? If you drive long distances often, need high load/towing capability, are a one car household, and/or can’t charge at home (apartments?) an EV probably doesn’t make sense - but many drivers don’t have those constraints.

Not all EVs or chargers are created equal. Some EVs can charge to 80% in 15-30 minutes, but yes some take over an hour. You’d have to look into a specific EV and charging stations in your area. Experienced EV owners will typically do several shorter duration partial charges on a long trip, instead of running until the battery is almost dead and waiting for a full charge at one stop. The Tesla interface, and some others, will show you all the charging stations on your route and even available stalls in real time. Apple Maps, Google Maps and Waze can display charging stations on your route or in your vicinity. At least in the US, Tesla owners have access to over 19,000 charging stalls at 4500+ charging stations (Tesla superchargers and destination chargers), way more plentiful than others. With other brands you should do your homework. There are over 30,000 charging stalls worldwide for Teslas, Superchargers for Teslas and destination chargers for all. More charging stations are being built every day!

It’s best to do your homework to see if an EV makes sense for your situation, it works very well for millions. Other than Chevy Bolt owners and a few others, I haven’t met an EV owner who regrets buying one yet.

Forgot to mention the lower cost of maintenance for EVs as well! Very good point.

I know someone with one of the first Model S in Hawaii, going on like 8 years now I think, only time he's had to take his car in were the two times it got hit by other drivers. Both times in parking garages because people here don't know how to drive.

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We are a Chevy Bolt owner - and while we were frustrated about the battery recall issue - we don't regret the purchase.  (Our local Chevy dealer gave us a loaner while waiting for the battery fix).  Its my wife's car.  The longest trip she takes is to check in on her mother - 150 miles round trip.  So perfect for her.  

There is some "range anxiety" if we have to go farther.  I've twice pushed it to the limit of its range to the point its flashing and beeping at me.  

We installed a 220 charging unit in the garage and share charges it over night there when she needs to.  When we travel with it to DesMoines (my usual weekly work trip) we've found a Shell/MidAmerican charging station at a Caseys station exactly half way; and the parking garage across from my hotel has two charging stations we use over night.  

You just have to do your homework first.  It is going to be the way of the future

In fact, I had to replace my lawnmower this week, and there were more electric lawnmowers at Lowes that ICE mowers - so I got a Kobolt one.  Worked great.

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I just replaced my 2 gas/diesel cars for a plug-in hybrid and an EV.

The hybrid yields 100km of electric range and is charged at a wallbox in my garage. 100km is enough for daily use for the wife to drive to work, pick up the kids, take them to golf practice, grocery shopping, etc. Usually charge it every 2-3 days. This is the bigger SUV, so if we decide to drive around Europe, I just switch to gas after using up the battery. One complaint I have is the smaller trunk. With my old Mazda CX-5, I could keep both children's seats, pack 2 Clicgears, 2 cart bags and 2 kid's bags. With the hybrid I can only pack 1 Clicgear, 1 cartbag and 1 kid's bag.

My daily driver is an Audi Q4 e-tron 35 (about 325km range). Just use it to drive to work and sometimes to the golf course. You can get the bigger brother e-tron 50 quattro which should give you 460km range. Since you mentioned roundtrips of 300km, this one should be enough for your needs.

Both cars are leased (4 year contracts). I'm still not 100% sold on battery technology, so I thought leasing them would be a safer bet than buying it and having to replace a battery out of warranty. But both Audi and Mercedes seem to provide 8 year battery warranty.

I have solar panels, so if I time it correctly, I'm charging the cars for free all summer long.

I made the mistake to omit the fast charger for the hybrid, that's why for long trips I'm still gas dependent. But Europe has the infrastructure, so you should take advantage of it. With fast charging, 45-60mins for a full charge, just make a pit stop, bathroom break, eat something and when you are done, the car is ready to go again.

I still haven't done the yearly service yet, but I heard it's cheaper than gas/diesel cars.

Let me know if you need any specific details.

 

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On 5/25/2022 at 1:36 PM, GolfSpy_APH said:

What if charging stations had chipping and putting greens so while charging you could get some short game practice in?

The 2 top choices for us are the Peugeot e-2008 and Skoda Enyaq. Little different, but both have tons of options and are plenty big enough for all we would possibly need. 

 

The courses I've been to already offer 2/4 charging stations and EV get 2-3 hours of free parking (in most public park houses).

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Ah, one more thing I forgot... German government was paying incentives for people to install wallboxes at home and free financial aid for the purchase of an EV. I'm sure Swiss government has something similar too (or maybe not, rich mofos lol)

People mentioned having 220V at home, but that's not the deciding factor. Remember all sockets in Europe are 220V. What makes charging faster/slower is the load capacity of the wallbox. In my area, the local utilities allow 11kW without any special permission. Anything over that, and you need an approval and your wallbox needs to fulfill certain criteria (network connection, load management, some protocol, etc.)

Usually cars that support fast charging won't have an issue, but the bottle neck remains in the kW of the wallbox. If you charge overnight, 11kW is more than enough.

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Would consider an EV if it had a 500mile range and could be recharged in five minutes, but not until then. Also consider how generating stations are powered {coal, natural gas and in some states nukes} ; your still running on fossil fuels by proxy. One thing more thing to think about is how the existing power grid will handle all these EVs the greenies want us to have. Still love the rumble of a 400hp V8.

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32 minutes ago, John W Sutch said:

Would consider an EV if it had a 500mile range and could be recharged in five minutes, but not until then. Also consider how generating stations are powered {coal, natural gas and in some states nukes} ; your still running on fossil fuels by proxy. One thing more thing to think about is how the existing power grid will handle all these EVs the greenies want us to have. Still love the rumble of a 400hp V8.

Sounds like your mind is made up but FWIW. If you can charge at home, while you're asleep and power plants are at off peak rates, charge time is in essence zero. Most people don't drive 500 miles very often, even someone who drives 20K miles per year is averaging less than 55 miles/day - and most people average less than 20K.

EVs do generate emissions, they're just at power plants - I agree the eco chics who claim EVs are zero emissions are uninformed or willfully ignorant. However, only EVs charging off a coal fired power plant have emissions nearing those of ICE vehicles - EVs are net cleaner if your local grid is gas, nuclear, renewables or anything other than coal.

80% of EV charging takes place at home, mostly while people are asleep - and that's preferable to the homeowner to take advantage of off peak rates. Power plant demand falls at night, that's why rates or lower off peak - which means power plants have to idle at night with reduced demand. EVs that charge off peak do not increase capacity demand, it's actually welcome to power plants if their demand is smoother (EVs charging off peak). Yes, there will be some increased demand as charging will take place during peak periods, but it's not directly additive - not a one for one add to the grid. There are already home chargers that automatically take advantage of and optimize off peak rates - the owner doesn't have to time charging.

I like the sound of a V8 as well, but not so much that I would dismiss what EVs have to offer without knowing a little more...

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1 hour ago, John W Sutch said:

Would consider an EV if it had a 500mile range and could be recharged in five minutes, but not until then. Also consider how generating stations are powered {coal, natural gas and in some states nukes} ; your still running on fossil fuels by proxy. One thing more thing to think about is how the existing power grid will handle all these EVs the greenies want us to have. Still love the rumble of a 400hp V8.

Except that in Switzerland only about 2% of the electricity comes from fossil fuels. With European gas prices, it would be extremely expensive to maintain your 400hp V8.

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5 minutes ago, Kanoito said:

Except that in Switzerland only about 2% of the electricity comes from fossil fuels. With European gas prices, it would be extremely expensive to maintain your 400hp V8.

At the crux of this i think for us here in Europe they are much more accessible and make more sense. If i ever get up to Hamburg to visit i don't be driving. It would be train or flight. 

I've driven across Canada in 3 days (5500 km) and am not stranger to long haul drives that are doable in Canada and the US by petrol vehicles. However those days are well behind me and in Europe if i do that amount of I'm i end up in Siberia lol

The charge stations here are everywhere, we have a wall charger built in to the parking space. So although there are downsides it is much harder to see them here.

For the majority I'm the US i do understand why there are setbacks, but glad to hear some are going that route and finding success with it.

May 31st the deal ends so decision will be very soon....

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

At the crux of this i think for us here in Europe they are much more accessible and make more sense. If i ever get up to Hamburg to visit i don't be driving. It would be train or flight. 

I've driven across Canada in 3 days (5500 km) and am not stranger to long haul drives that are doable in Canada and the US by petrol vehicles. However those days are well behind me and in Europe if i do that amount of I'm i end up in Siberia lol

The charge stations here are everywhere, we have a wall charger built in to the parking space. So although there are downsides it is much harder to see them here.

For the majority I'm the US i do understand why there are setbacks, but glad to hear some are going that route and finding success with it.

May 31st the deal ends so decision will be very soon...

Agree. Our company also got rid of all cars. Of you need to visit a customer, you fly then rent locally.

US and Canada are just too big. Can't see how charging infrastructure could be implemented effectively.

I just checked Q4 delivery times, 18 months... Jesus....

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On 5/26/2022 at 2:34 PM, yungkory said:

The Q4 we put deposit on likely won't come for another 12 months, unless supply chains magically fix themselves. The stealership told us that we're 83rd in line. That's just in Hawaii, not nationally or anything. So in the interim, I'm just putting deposits (refundable) down on all EVs that I don't absolutely hate (short list). I really didn't like the Hyundai Ioniq 5 when I first saw it, but in person it looks a little better. All of the reviewers rave about it so I'm excited to test drive one. Might luck into one here shortly. If anything, I can probably sell it for a profit when the Q4 finally comes in a year, since the used market is so bonkers right now. That's half of the reason I'm trying to get an EV as soon as possible outside of the obvious gas price insanity, my car is worth nearly what I bought it for 5 years ago. So at worst I get an EV that I don't really care for until the Q4 arrives, then sell this likely for a profit or barely any loss, get the $7500 tax credit while it's still being offered, and save a buttload of money on gas. If I end up liking the Ioniq maybe I'll keep it for myself and wifey can have the Audi.

 

 

... I placed an order for a Mach E in March 2020 and by November they still had not started building it. My last 3 cars have been Genesis and I love the company and 10yr/10,000 mile warranty although I did not have an issue with any of them. So When I found out Genesis was releasing their GV60 I cancelled my Mach E order and I am on the list for a GV60. As I am sure you know, Genesis is the luxury division of Hyundai and the Ioniq 5 is the same car as the GV60 just less "luxury."  Add to that all the Hyundai dealers here are charging a $5,000 "Market adjustment" for the Ioniq 5 so it is the same price as the GV60 without the adjustment. Last I heard my dealership should start taking deposits by August but I don't know when they will actually start building mine. I am at the top of the waiting list so I will at least be first when they do start taking deposits. Of course they are eligible for the $7500 tax credit. 

PS. I was really annoyed that Audi charges $250 for a Homelink garage door opener with the Q4 E Tron Fastback when every premium car I have ever seen include it as a standard feature. You would think a $60,000 car would have a garage door opener standard. They also have a $600 paint uncharge for every color other than Matt Gray. 

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On 5/28/2022 at 2:38 PM, Kanoito said:

Agree. Our company also got rid of all cars. Of you need to visit a customer, you fly then rent locally.

US and Canada are just too big. Can't see how charging infrastructure could be implemented effectively.

I just checked Q4 delivery times, 18 months... Jesus....

As I understand it, it’s a supply issue much more than a demand issue? Getting the materials for and scaling up battery production takes time, and Tesla is one of the few companies that recognized and prepared for it. Chip shortages and some other parts have been scarce as well. VW is also acting on battery supply chain now, but well behind. Tesla has more of a demand problem, very profitable. The Chinese are doing more volume too, but we don’t see that in North America (yet).

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4 hours ago, Middler said:

As I understand it, it’s a supply issue much more than a demand issue? Getting the materials for and scaling up battery production takes time, and Tesla is one of the few companies that recognized and prepared for it. VW is also acting on battery supply chain now, but well behind. Tesla has more of a demand problem, very profitable. The Chinese are doing more volume too, but we don’t see that in North America (yet).

The hold up on my Mach E is apparently the automatic park assist…

I know how to park just ship my car damnit!

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My house deal might be falling through.  If it does, I’ll be getting a diesel VW Golf.  Commuting 450 miles a week.  Not sure if an EV would be cost effective.  I can tune the diesel and get like 65mpg.

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18 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

The hold up on my Mach E is apparently the automatic park assist…

I know how to park just ship my car damnit!

 

... If it helps after I canceled my Mach E order and was refunded my deposit in October, I received a notice my car arrived at the dealership at the end of April and I could come pick it up 13 months after placing a deposit. So they are actually shipping them.  It was also the wrong color.  🤪

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Irons:        :cobra-small: 5-Pw Forged Tec ... Steelfiber i80R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 50*/MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :cleveland-small: Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:           :taylormade-small: Maxfli Tour '22/TP5x '21

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2 minutes ago, Shankster said:

My house deal might be falling through.  If it does, I’ll be getting a diesel VW Golf.  Commuting 450 miles a week.  Not sure if an EV would be cost effective.  I can tune the diesel and get like 65mpg.

 

... Most electric companies have a nigh time discount when you charge at home so I can't see how it wouldn't be more cost effective.  

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Driver:     :cobra-small: LTDx 10.5* ... LinQ M40X 6F3
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/16.5/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R
                 :taylormade-small: DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
                  :taylormade-small: Sim Hybrid 22* ... Diamana Ltd 75R
Irons:        :cobra-small: 5-Pw Forged Tec ... Steelfiber i80R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 50*/MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :cleveland-small: Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:           :taylormade-small: Maxfli Tour '22/TP5x '21

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30 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Most electric companies have a nigh time discount when you charge at home so I can't see how it wouldn't be more cost effective.  

Well, I’m not looking at new.  I can get a pretty good price on the diesel car vs a comparable EV.

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17 minutes ago, Shankster said:

Well, I’m not looking at new.  I can get a pretty good price on the diesel car vs a comparable EV.

I was walking into work the other morning and was talking to one of the guys on my line about the whole diesel fiasco. Once it happened a ton of the cars we couldn't sell were shipped to and stored at my plant. We actually had an Audi Q5 diesel back there with 31,000 miles that sold for $15K, wish I would have known about that.

As far as our electric car goes, well be starting production on it soon. We've been in the trial phase for a while and will slowly be ramping up production, but from what I saw on the news there all spoken for this year. 

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