Flagstick in or out - What do you do?

[Kenny B]

4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Remember that 4.5 feet isn't a magic number, at some point between 2.5 feet past and 4.5 feet the pin becomes a potential detriment.  At some point which includes reasonable distance control, the flagstick becomes problematic.  When I say "reasonable distance control" I'm going back to some of the information from Every Shot Counts.  For "makeable" putts, you want every single putt to reach the hole, so the middle of your putting pattern should be 18 to 24 inches past the hole.  If you can miss 2 feet short and still reach the hole, you're also going to hit some 2 feet past your target, 4 feet past the hole.  The pin can knock a few of those out, that otherwise might go in.  On the other hand, the pin might slow or deflect some of them, keeping them closer to the hole than they otherwise might.  I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all answer on this, it depends on the green speeds, and the player's tendencies.

Also remember that the study linked in the original post is 3 years old, about the same time that MGS did its own study and came to the opposite conclusion.  I still go back to personal preference.

Yep! Everyone will do what they feel gives them the best chance to make the putt.  For me, that's leaving the pin in.  Maybe I would change if I moved to a different part of the country.  Putting has always been an issue for me in AZ and SoCal; playing on bermuda greens a lot might cause me to adjust my decision.  I wonder if the grain near the hole would impart enough movement on the ball at the 2.5 foot past the pin speed that it would affect the interaction with the pin and edge of the hole?  I don't think I'm moving so I'll stay with the pin in.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

On 5/29/2022 at 10:20 AM, edingc said:

Ditto. It stays in on 98 percent of the holes I play. I do occasionally pull it if I feel like it's leaning enough that it could effect the ball going in.

Ditto x2

I also like the fact that I am aiming at something that is a half inch instead of 4 1/4" It seems to increase my focus. 

[Shankster]

I’ve been leaving the flagstick in since 1997.  Young punk kid “breaking the rules” but it just made sense to me.  I think it was @revkev who mentioned that my favorite golfer, Seve, usually had the stick attended while putting.  Gives you something to aim at.

[revkev]

1 hour ago, Shankster said:

I’ve been leaving the flagstick in since 1997.  Young punk kid “breaking the rules” but it just made sense to me.  I think it was @revkev who mentioned that my favorite golfer, Seve, usually had the stick attended while putting.  Gives you something to aim at.

Indeed he did. 
 

I played today and we never touched the pin. I was reflecting that when I first joined Bayou it had to be pulled. Then we had a transitional period and then with COVID the pin was not to be touched. Now it’s the norm even if not a rule. A good putt is going in regardless. 
 

It remains a personal preference. From my perspective it should speed up play to leave it in. But there tons of other things that slow things down far more.  Starting with playing the wrong tees.  

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

I always pulled the flag out prior to Covid. Once that was “not allowed” I realized I prefer it in.

here and there will pull it out on a short putt but rarely, have never had a ball pop out because the flag was there that I can tell

[golfinnut]

I'm the old school golfer that grew up with the flag stick always in.  Way before this rule came out of being able to leave it in.  I like to have it out all the time but if others in the group keep it in, I'll go along with it.  It's either one or the other.  None of this, "I want it in" or "I want it out" back & fourth crap.  Just in the essence of speeding up play. 

Also, I've had more putts rattle out with the flagstick in than I'd like to count.  So I'm with the USGA .... Take it out! 

[DaveP043]

10 minutes ago, golfinnut said:

So I'm with the USGA .... Take it out! 

Do what you want, but don't do it because the USGA (and/or R&A) recommend it, because they DON'T recommend it, they simply allow it.  The rules do not penalize you if your ball hits the flagstick left in the hole.

[golfinnut]

11 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Do what you want, but don't do it because the USGA (and/or R&A) recommend it, because they DON'T recommend it, they simply allow it.  The rules do not penalize you if your ball hits the flagstick left in the hole.

Oh I don't do it because they say to.  I do it because that's what I'm used to.  Plus, as stated, I've had way too many putts rattle out with the flag stick in.  So I'd rather take it out. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

May have commented on this prior, but out of sheer laziness i leave it in. Just easier and my putting stats haven't changed any but one way or another. 

[Kanoito]

6 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

May have commented on this prior, but out of sheer laziness i leave it in. Just easier and my putting stats haven't changed any but one way or another. 

1 more for the lazy club. And if I'm blasting a putt 4 over over... I deserve to be penalized again lol

[GolfSpy BOS]

Count me in as one of the "leave it in" crowd.  One less thing to worry about putting away once the hole is done.... and if I'm within a tap in range sometimes I like to bang the ball off the flag stick just to make sure my putter sensor picks up the putt. haha

Although since we leave it in most the time my cousin can't use his favorite joke on my dad anymore:

Junior - "Hey Jimmy. how much does the flag weigh?"  

My Dad - "I don't know, why?"

Junior - "Maybe you should try picking it up!"

 

It might have been funny the first time.

[yungkory]

6 hours ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

and if I'm within a tap in range sometimes I like to bang the ball off the flag stick just to make sure my putter sensor picks up the putt. haha

I do this when I'm mad lol. Smash the ball into the flagstick to take out my frustrations

[chisag]

6 hours ago, GolfSpy_BOS said:

Count me in as one of the "leave it in" crowd.  One less thing to worry about putting away once the hole is done.... and if I'm within a tap in range sometimes I like to bang the ball off the flag stick just to make sure my putter sensor picks up the putt.

 

... It only happens about once every other month but nothing worse than pulling out my rangefinder and no flag in sight because the last group forgot to put it back in. Granted this is muni golf and most likely alcohol induced as on a couple occasions it happened more than once but a real pain when walking. I mentioned this before but I have always been a die in the hole putter and on short putts playing on bent grass greens it works well. But the grain on Bermuda greens calls for a much more aggressive approach because even a 2 footer can veer offline and I have had to train myself to hit short putts with much more authority. Banging the ball off the pin is both a physical and mental comfort knowing I can hit it with enough pace to roll it 2 feet past and it will drop, even when hitting the side of the pin. 

[goaliedad30]

For me, anything outside of about 15 feet, I generally just leave it in. Inside of 15 feet, I tend to prefer it out; I just focus better on hitting the putt to my desired line and speed. One exception is that if the flag or flagstick is casting a shadow to bothers my eye, I have it pulled. We get a lot of wind some days, and that shadow flapping makes me lose focus.

[funkyjudge]

12 hours ago, goaliedad30 said:

For me, anything outside of about 15 feet, I generally just leave it in. Inside of 15 feet, I tend to prefer it out; I just focus better on hitting the putt to my desired line and speed. One exception is that if the flag or flagstick is casting a shadow to bothers my eye, I have it pulled. We get a lot of wind some days, and that shadow flapping makes me lose focus.

I'm sort of like you in that respect, but my distance for having the pin pulled is more like 8 feet.  However, if the pin is leaning -- particularly leaning to the side or toward me -- I always prefer to have it pulled except on really long putts (like 60 feet).

[fixyurdivot]

I leave it in unless it's really windy and the flag/stick is moving around.  When this "leave it in to save time" movement started, I was among those that did not like it being in.  It just didn't seem to fit my eye.  But, as I played more rounds with folks who were leaving it in, I found it less and less of a distraction.  

I know there have been studies looking at whether putts are missed (or saved) and it seems the majority feel it hurts more than helps... albeit noise level.  What I've not seen and of more interest is a controlled test to see whether putting prowess is better or worse simply based on the visual aspects of a traditional empty hole or the stick in the hole.  Maybe it actually helps folks with alignment? 

[cksurfdude]

On 6/1/2022 at 6:54 PM, fixyurdivot said:

What I've not seen and of more interest is a controlled test to see whether putting prowess is better or worse simply based on the visual aspects of a traditional empty hole or the stick in the hole.  Maybe it actually helps folks with alignment? 

Purely anecdotal, of course, but .. for me .. I strongly believe that leaving it in absolutely helps with visual perspective and distance control -- especially on long first putts and especially on greens with a lot of slope and contour.

Separately, and IMO, leave it in for pace of play in all non-comp rounds.

[cksurfdude]

This may have been mentioned earlier in this thread, but....

Another reason to have the flag in - sometimes when people pull it out or put it back in, they do it at an angle and damage the edge of the cup (sucks for everyone else putting from that direction who plays after them).

Plus.. it seems many times people hold the pin vertically - heavy base on the ground - and dent the green; or, if they drop it down, it's often too forcefully and the flag end whips down and dents the green.