Golftec lessons--advice?

[sub80]

I'm seeking a little advice from the group here.  To do that--sadly, I have to talk about myself a bit.  But, not to bury the lead, the central question is--are the Golftec lessons, taken in a progression with the tools and feedback they are going to offer a better investment than visiting a pro (even on a series of lessons) without that constant accurate feedback.

So--about me.  I didn't start playing until my (very) late thirties and early 40s--got down to an 8.  Stopped playing to go back to playing rugby.  Because I apparently have a few screws loose.

I also coach rugby, and study learning theory and coaching.  There is more crossover than you would think.

I started back at golf again about 2 years ago.  Originally I was self taught from books, took a few lessons from some great pros-all very useful, particularly a playing lesson.  I'm sitting at 12 now.  I have had a few recent lessons from pros--again all good--but although they use video--they tend to give me a cue, and tell me to go work on it--which I do.  And come back in a couple of weeks.  At that point--I have usually "overdone" the cue.  Example--I was to in to out--given advice to swing left (which in the sweet moment it was working, got me open, great ball flight--and then I became--to out in.  And to be honest--the explanation of why I needed to do something wasn't great. 

I did a Golftec swing evaluation on a reference from another forum member--cost me only 25 bucks, so I figured, "why not".  The guy doing it was young--not nearly the same experience as the pros I had seen.  BUT the evaluation tools, and the video--were great.  And his explanations of stuff combined with the video made a lot of sense.  and I was able to make a basic change pretty quickly.  Because I could see it and understand why.   I have a good intellectual grasp of the golf swing--but seeing yourself is hard.

My thought is the tools Golftec offers will enable faster progression with fewer missteps and a clearer path--particularly with getting to practice with their tools and video (which I find extremely difficult to do with any kind of accuracy myself). 

I'm too busy to "dig it out of the dirt" by trial and error.  I think anyone out of their teens is.  I think the technology and guidance--as much from the technology as the young pro--will be really useful to my progression--more so than any thing else (except devoting myself to golf full time--which won't work).  I practice on a range 2-3 times a week, play 2-3 times a week, but more 9 holes than 18.

I welcome any thoughts!

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Depends on the person giving the lesson, the person taking the lesson and their dedication to practicing what is taught in the lesson.

There are as many bad experiences with golfTec lessons as there are good ones.

I personally wouldn’t take a golfTec lesson. 

[cnosil]

23 minutes ago, sub80 said:

the central question is--are the Golftec lessons, taken in a progression with the tools and feedback they are going to offer a better investment than visiting a pro (even on a series of lessons) without that constant accurate feedback.

I have had a few recent lessons from pros--again all good--but although they use video--they tend to give me a cue, and tell me to go work on it--which I do.  And come back in a couple of weeks.  At that point--I have usually "overdone" the cue.  Example--I was to in to out--given advice to swing left (which in the sweet moment it was working, got me open, great ball flight--and then I became--to out in.  And to be honest--the explanation of why I needed to do something wasn't great. 

 The guy doing it was young--not nearly the same experience as the pros I had seen.  BUT the evaluation tools, and the video--were great.  And his explanations of stuff combined with the video made a lot of sense.  and I was able to make a basic change pretty quickly.  Because I could see it and understand why.   I have a good intellectual grasp of the golf swing--but seeing yourself is hard.

My thought is the tools Golftec offers will enable faster progression with fewer missteps and a clearer path--particularly with getting to practice with their tools and video (which I find extremely difficult to do with any kind of accuracy myself). 

I'm too busy to "dig it out of the dirt" by trial and error.  I think anyone out of their teens is.  I think the technology and guidance--as much from the technology as the young pro--will be really useful to my progression--more so than any thing else (except devoting myself to golf full time--which won't work).  I practice on a range 2-3 times a week, play 2-3 times a week, but more 9 holes than 18.

 

Here are my opinions on the points I quoted above:

progress will most likely be dependent on how you learn and how well you and the instructor communicate.  Age of the instructor is not relevant to quality of instruction.

most lessons are here are a couple of things to work on, come back in a couple of weeks.  During the lesson, the instructor should give you enough information to help make sure you are practicing correctly.  Sounds like you and the instructor did not communicate well.  An out to in path isn’t necessarily bad especially if you are getting good ball flight.  
 

you mention instruction path.   You and an instructor should have a lesson plan and path regardless of what technology is used.  Some people like the technology and respond well to it; others don’t.  You need to evaluate what works for you.  There is a fairly recent thread on Golftec and the opinions are mixed; some think it is great and some say it is terrible.  The only opinion that matters is yours.  As for speed learning, that is all on you and what you do to learn the new skills.  
 

you practice 2-3 times a week and play 2-3 times a week; you have plenty of time to “dig it out of the dirt” as that is something you still need to do when taking lessons. Dig it out if the dirt doesn’t mean trial and error; it is about building the feels and techniques that are being taught to you.    

[stephenmatt]

Like others have said it all depends on who is teaching but for me being able to see my swing from both angles at GOLFTEC has really helped me. If you get a good coach at GOLFTEC then you will also get the benefit of being able to analyze your swing on camera which is really awesome. It also helps when you are practicing to be able to see what could be a potential issue and not guess because it wasn't being recorded.

[sub80]

Thanks for the help!  Of course, you are right--it is on me to practice and learn--and true, that's digging it out of the dirt in way, but at least with guidance. 

And to the second poster--seeing myself has been eye opening, being able to access those videos anytime and review, is a game changer.  I knwo you can video yourself, but...

[Thin2win]

I think Golftec can do really good things for the more analytical learners. Their method is hard for those that learn by feel. But if seeing that data, seeing your swing and understanding it, they are pretty hard to beat. They do have a good package that has lots of vetting and results behind it.

But finding the right coach/instructor that speaks in a way that makes sense to you is probably the single more important part of any lesson plan.

To one of your first points, your swing cues will always change. Your body will get used to that finish left, and it wont feel like you are finishing left. so to get that same "feel", you will end up finishing further and further left. Without a coach or visual to let you know when you have used that cue to its target... you just keep going until it has gone too far and is now doing the wrong thing for you.  From your write up, I would say the visual is a good tool for you.

[HDTVMAN]

My opinion...GolfTec has good things to offer, but they are used car salesmen. By that I mean when I was there for a one hour lesson courtesy of my broker, I wanted to get additional lessons with the $300 package. Their manager came to me and said that would be a waste of money and I needed the $1200 package. I walked out the door and went to a pro in my area and spent $400 for some great lessons outdoors with Trackman. Plus learning outdoors, even with heated bays, is 1000% better than indoors.

[Jay Vecchiarelli]

I’m a life long player.. started when I was 8 and am turning 80 this year.  I went to GOLFTEC 2 years ago because I had some back issues and couldn’t turn fully anymore . I was single digits until my early 70’s from the blue tees. Thought they could help me. They did not. In fact my instructor tried to completely revamp my swing. As I said I’ve played for nearly 70 years and know you can’t change easily in a few months. In fact it takes about 2 years to change your grip so you are comfortable and confident. Find a teacher that is highly recommended and pay him.  You will be better off. Practice is essential with the guidance of a real teacher. 

 

[T McKinnon]

I am a self-taught golfer and have studied the game of golf a lot over the past 50 years!  In the beginning I was very frustrated with golf but I was determined to master the game (not possible).  I became an excellent golfer with study and practice!  At age 70 I am able to shoot my age with regularity.  

My first real lesson was a couple of years ago at Golf Tec. A golfing buddy encouraged me to go to Golf Tec for a lesson and he gave me a referral card with an incentive to give it a try.  My instructor is an accomplished player and a good friend.  The tools Golf Tec uses to help with their instruction are excellent.  To be able to see one's golf swing and note the areas to improve was a revelation to me.  I was able to see and understand some adjustments I needed to make to improve my game.  My game has improved and I am very happy with the help I received at Golf Tec!  I have been back several times - money well spent!

[Bang60]

On 6/4/2022 at 5:34 AM, sub80 said:

Thanks for the help!  Of course, you are right--it is on me to practice and learn--and true, that's digging it out of the dirt in way, but at least with guidance. 

And to the second poster--seeing myself has been eye opening, being able to access those videos anytime and review, is a game changer.  I knwo you can video yourself, but...

I've found a huge difference between lessons hitting in the nets and actually playing on the course, in the lesson and nets sessions I go left but on the course I went straight with my irons and a draw with the driver. I'm happy with that result but question my need for lessons, so for now I'm just using the nets and playing on the course and in a while will try lessons again.

[Sluggo42]

It depends.

[fozcycle]

I did the golftec deal a dozen years ago……mostly they were interested in resigning me for more lessons.

[fixyurdivot]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:02 PM, Jay Vecchiarelli said:

I’m a life long player.. started when I was 8 and am turning 80 this year.  I went to GOLFTEC 2 years ago because I had some back issues and couldn’t turn fully anymore . I was single digits until my early 70’s from the blue tees. Thought they could help me. They did not. In fact my instructor tried to completely revamp my swing. As I said I’ve played for nearly 70 years and know you can’t change easily in a few months. In fact it takes about 2 years to change your grip so you are comfortable and confident. Find a teacher that is highly recommended and pay him.  You will be better off. Practice is essential with the guidance of a real teacher. 

 

Great input Jay.  I'm highlighting a portion that I think it's really important going into golf lessons, be it Golf Tec or any other source... that is to take serious stock in what one's after.  What level of time committment can you make practicing? How open are you to possibly having the index rise appreciably?  For amateurs who already consistently score in the 70's and 80's, I think the best approach is looking at the weakest portion of your game and finding a competent instructor that can work on improving that portion first.  Presuming some success with that, move to the next weakest link.  

My experience with a wholesale/revamped swing change was a complete disaster; wrecking what was a pretty steady 9 index and leaving me frustrated and not wanting to play for a time.  Eating the elephant a little at a time may be the better choice for many.

[Bang60]

10 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

My experience with a wholesale/revamped swing change was a complete disaster; wrecking what was a pretty steady 9 index 

This is precisely why I avoid lessons, what I want from a lesson is maximize my clubs please? My body doesn't swing the same from one day to the next, I'm hitting my irons really straight but distance is inconsistent due to little course play for 15 months. What I want is driver shaft setup plz ,!!!

[RickyBobby_PR]

6 hours ago, Bang60 said:

My body doesn't swing the same from one day to the next, I'm hitting my irons really straight but distance is inconsistent due to little course play for 15 months.

If you are hitting into nets and practicing the golf swing the lack of on course time should very little to do with distance inconsistency. This is where lessons will help, your contact on the face is inconsistent. Lessons with proper practice will help that

6 hours ago, Bang60 said:

What I want is driver shaft setup plz ,!!!

This is a fitting not a lesson

[Bang60]

5 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

If you are hitting into nets and practicing the golf swing the lack of on course time should very little to do with distance inconsistency. This is where lessons will help, your contact on the face is inconsistent. Lessons with proper practice will help that

This is a fitting 

Lessons will help at the moment of the lesson but next day I'm swinging slightly different, in the nets I can hit 5 7irons within 5metres of each other but to hit one shot a particular distance not so much. Reason is I'm guessing how far I'm hitting it, I'm in a big open space and it looks feels different to the net that 135metres actually looks more to me and I'm wondering about my alignment etc etc. That feeling of lost will take awhile to go away, but the 18 holes Saturday showed me that I'm mostly hitting a straight ball with my irons which I wasn't doing last year. I want more distance with the driver so that's a equipment issue (yes I know lessons will help too but I'm not capable of a "repeating" swing) that requires a fitting and there ain't one near me, I've searched online and the fitters mentioned before aren't doing what a good fitter does, and want to go down the "lessons" route so I'm not doing that as I went to the golf warehouse for a fitting which was a waste of time. He just didn't know what he should do, and I based that on what other MGS members have agreed a good fitter should do...

[RickyBobby_PR]

31 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

Lessons will help at the moment of the lesson but next day I'm swinging slightly different, in the nets I can hit 5 7irons within 5metres of each other but to hit one shot a particular distance not so much.

Yes but it takes time to change a swing and the golfer has to take what they learn from the lesson to their practice and work on the changes. Everyone wants immediate results and expect them to happen from a single lesson and that’s just not how it works. 

 

34 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

I want more distance with the driver so that's a equipment issue (yes I know lessons will help too but I'm not capable of a "repeating" swing) that requires a fitting and there ain't one near me, I've searched online and the fitters mentioned before aren't doing what a good fitter does, and want to go down the "lessons" route so I'm not doing that as I went to the golf warehouse for a fitting which was a waste of time. He just didn't know what he should do, and I based that on what other MGS members have agreed a good fitter should do...

Sux that there isn’t a good fitter but the part about a reparable swing needed for a fitting is a fallacy that many have falling into thinking especially high handicap golfers. Peoples swing are pretty consistent in how they swing what varies is how well they compensate from the club being in a bad position. When the compensations are timed up right then contact becomes more consistent and when it’s on off day it’s not so great. Even the best players have compensations in their swings and when they are off their results aren’t as optimal.

Getting lessons from a fitter isn’t really a bad thing and in most cases is better than doing them separately 

[Bang60]

10 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

Getting lessons from a fitter isn’t really a bad thing and in most cases is better than doing them separately 

I wasn't suggesting lessons from a fitter, that comment was in brackets which means it's separated from the rest of the sentence. So I'm retiring from this discussion as we are speaking different languages, cheers

[Sluggo42]

On 6/1/2022 at 9:24 AM, sub80 said:

 

I did a Golftec swing evaluation on a reference from another forum member--cost me only 25 bucks, so I figured, "why not".  The guy doing it was young--not nearly the same experience as the pros I had seen.  BUT the evaluation tools, and the video--were great.  And his explanations of stuff combined with the video made a lot of sense.  and I was able to make a basic change pretty quickly.  Because I could see it and understand why.   I have a good intellectual grasp of the golf swing--but seeing yourself is hard.

My thought is the tools Golftec offers will enable faster progression with fewer missteps and a clearer path--particularly with getting to practice with their tools and video (which I find extremely difficult to do with any kind of accuracy myself). 

I'm too busy to "dig it out of the dirt" by trial and error.  I think anyone out of their teens is.  I think the technology and guidance--as much from the technology as the young pro--will be really useful to my progression--more so than any thing else (except devoting myself to golf full time--which won't work).  I practice on a range 2-3 times a week, play 2-3 times a week, but more 9 holes than 18.

I welcome any thoughts!

 

 

You kinda answered your own questions. And it also sounds like you’ve got a pretty sharp youngster who knows how to use the Golftec gear/system well.

as stated earlier, there are a few recent Golftec threads going right now, one of them being my own experience. I found the lessons very helpful, and in almost every game still, I’m recalling and using bits and pieces of my lessons. It does take a long time and lots of practice to make even subtle changes, but it was a very positive experience for myself. Others might feel that it didn’t help their game. 

[cksurfdude]

I'll echo what ^ that smart guy ^ said...

You seem to like the video + analytic feedback, plus seem to have a good communication with the instructor/coach, so yeah I say go for it!!

Also like Sluggo, I've been taking a series of lessons at a GolfTec center .. and also have posted about it under this "Lessons" category .. and also have gotten a *lot* of benefit out of them!

No, it's not for everyone and that's ok. Everyone learns, and receives learning, differently. Each golfer should do what they think is "right" and most effective for them.

One of the common misconceptions about GolfTec is they force you to swing like a tour pro .. but that is not really correct...

...they use the tour pros as teaching "models" - ie. to look at their form as the archetype to base instruction off of - with the goal to get you to swing more ALIKE to the tour pro model ...

...with the understanding that regular recreational golfers who go to GolfTec are not gonna become tour pros themselves...

On the flip side, I'd be careful of individual instructors who may be teaching to a favored method or system, or who may have pieced together their own homegrown method / system and want all their students to follow *their* model. IMHO.

[NoRebound]

Have had both great and bad experiences with Golftec.  About 7 years ago I started with one of their instructors whose dad owned the local franchise.  The kid played college golf on full scholarship and he instantly got that my swing was mostly derived from playing hockey growing up.  He had me to a 6 handicap and fit me with clubs I am still using.

Fast forward to the beginning of the pandemic.  Signed up for a lesson package and was paired with a very young guy who was an OK instructor who quit a couple of momths in and left me in the hands of an even younger kids who kept showing me videos of a 20 something TIger and telling me my swing should look like that.  He changed everything about my grip, swing path, posture, everything.  I went from a 6 to a 10 almost overnight and have stayed there these last two summers. 

Golftec recently contacted me with yet another inexperienced coach and wanted me to sign into the full $1200 package.  I haven't returned their phone call.  I just feel that I need a more experienced voice in my ear. 

[Bang60]

In my life I've spent thousands of Dollars$$$ on lessons for Tennis 1st and then Golf, I was a much better Tennis player than I'll ever be a golfer. But golf requires a lot more work and timing than tennis, club head size being the biggest obstacle. Coaches in sports come in many configurations and the problem is finding one that you can understand and work with, to start with learning about how you can change the clubs to help you hitting the ball with top spin slice etc. I used to string my tennis racket very loose and added lead weights, now I'm adding lead tape and mid grips etc but not really keen on lessons as I don't think my body can swing the same tomorrow as I do today. I've been learning about customizing clubs to get better numbers but I'd be ok paying for a fitting if that fitter knows what he'r is doing...

[Andrew75]

I had a poor experience with golf tech. It's a one size fits all approach and they're trying to sell a limited stock of expensive U. S. market goods. One thing, they can't get Japanese equipment. Another, like most manufacturers they assume if you have low clubhead speed you're not very good or have a number of swing flaws. I'm a slow swinger who occasionally shoots in the 60s. During initial intake the guy was incredulous and arrogant. I was looking for very specific things. They wanted to go elsewhere. We did a 10 shot test and I hit ten drives 205 yards right on top of each other and it was clear they couldn't or wouldn't or weren't capable to work with me at the level I was looking for. Mostly I just video my own swing and look for the shafts, clubheads and wedges I want and need between the cracks.

 

I had a close friend who's very gifted at golf and has a limited knowledge of the swing who got screwed up with them as well. 

 

It's a system thing. They have a hard time dealing with idiosyncrasies. 

[Bang60]

14 hours ago, Andrew75 said:

I had a poor experience with golf tech. It's a one size fits all approach and they're trying to sell a limited stock of expensive U. S. market goods. One thing, they can't get Japanese equipment. Another, like most manufacturers they assume if you have low clubhead speed you're not very good or have a number of swing flaws. I'm a slow swinger who occasionally shoots in the 60s. During initial intake the guy was incredulous and arrogant. I was looking for very specific things. They wanted to go elsewhere. We did a 10 shot test and I hit ten drives 205 yards right on top of each other and it was clear they couldn't or wouldn't or weren't capable to work with me at the level I was looking for. Mostly I just video my own swing and look for the shafts, clubheads and wedges I want and need between the cracks.

 

I had a close friend who's very gifted at golf and has a limited knowledge of the swing who got screwed up with them as well. 

 

It's a system thing. They have a hard time dealing with idiosyncrasies. 

idiosyncrasies. 

Amen to that, I became friends with 2 golf Pro's in Sydney and I'm now disappointed with the lack of advise when playing with them. I think all Pro's need newbies because until they have alot of experience they can't see how to make small changes for big results, and even then it's like those changes are secrets they won't share because the pupil will be too good and STOP the lessons and no more money. One I went away with 2 other guys for 4 days golf in the Hunter valley, I went for 2 days golf with another Pro who didn't play but drove a cart with our clubs on and gave us pointers with most shots we hit. That's the biggest improvement I made in 30 years playing golf by far...