Jump to content
RoverRick

Could Tiger vs. Rory be greater Arnold vs. Jack?

Recommended Posts

Our Sponsors

I am watching Tiger and Rory in match play in Abu Dhabi. Well, it is not really match play but do I care if anyone else is there. Oh, yeah, Luke Donald is there but like his iron sponsor, fine quality, but I do not really care. I do not really care about anyone else there. I want Tiger to win, and if he does not, I want him second and Rory first.

 

There has been a lot of talk that the "young guns" are not intimidated by Tiger. Heck no, they are no more intimidated by him than he was of Jack, or Jack was of Arnold, or Arnold of Snead. They were all playing against the guy that they had played against in their minds for the last 10 or so years. In Rory's case, he was like 8 years old and Tiger was just turning pro.

 

Jack was past his prime when Tiger came along. It looks like Tiger 3.0, or whatever version of this Tiger is, is back, or well on his way. But if he can keep playing like this, and Rory can play like this, it is a HUGE win for golf. There are some others out there, Ricky Fowler, Bud Cauly, and many others that also get to play with their idol. If they can play as well along side Tiger when paired with Tiger, it is also a huge win for golf, but if Rory can be the one, it is HUGE for the world.

 

Time for you to chime in with your thoughts.


 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just having this discussion with my cousin yesterday. He said "I wish Tiger was younger, so he and Rory could have a long rivalry", to which I answered "he doesn't need to be younger. Do you see how great of shape he is in? (at that exact moment, the commentators on tv started talking about how chiseled Tiger looks) They are starting the rivalry right now in front of our eyes and if Tiger can get his game back to anywhere near where it was, it could be a rivalry that lasts for quite a while." I completely agree with everything you said above. The cousin that I was talking to is the one that is going to go to US Open qualifying; I told him that if he would now or ever make it into a group with Tiger that he was going to have to duct tape my jaw to keep it from dragging on the ground the whole time. Those young guys can say they aren't scared of Tiger, because they weren't around at the top of his game, when they get into a Sunday final grouping with him, it's going to be shock and awe and I agree, it will be the best thing for golf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sad thing about Tiger is that he never had any real opponents during his hey days. For a while there we held hope that Sergio would come out fighting, but he melted away. Whenever Tiger was in a tournament, it was just Tiger Woods against the world and that doesn't really do it for me. How much fun is there when someone just stomps the opposition ? Nobody could realistically put up a fight back then except by accident.

 

Jack was blessed with a host of challengers who came and went one after the other and there was a lot of excitement there. He had a terrific series of battles with Arnold and those were followed or interspersed with other challengers like Trevino, Watson, and others I can no longer remember. Tiger had no such luck.

 

Rory is a good golfer and might even make the personality and/or record needed to identify him as a great golfer but honestly, at this point he is just one of a host of might be in waiting. Does anybody remember Billy May or whatever his name was ?

 

You want to put someone up against Tiger he better have the record to show his worth. Without it, he will just be another writer's creation.

 

 

Shambles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sad thing about Tiger is that he never had any real opponents during his hey days. For a while there we held hope that Sergio would come out fighting, but he melted away. Whenever Tiger was in a tournament, it was just Tiger Woods against the world and that doesn't really do it for me. How much fun is there when someone just stomps the opposition ? Nobody could realistically put up a fight back then except by accident.

 

Jack was blessed with a host of challengers who came and went one after the other and there was a lot of excitement there. He had a terrific series of battles with Arnold and those were followed or interspersed with other challengers like Trevino, Watson, and others I can no longer remember. Tiger had no such luck.

 

Rory is a good golfer and might even make the personality and/or record needed to identify him as a great golfer but honestly, at this point he is just one of a host of might be in waiting. Does anybody remember Billy May or whatever his name was ?

 

You want to put someone up against Tiger he better have the record to show his worth. Without it, he will just be another writer's creation.

 

 

Shambles

 

 

I'd like to think Tiger and Phil was a great pairing...


My Bag:
Driver - 
:cobra-small:  King F6+

3 Wood -  :callaway-small: XR16
Hybrids -  :srixon-small:  ZH45
Irons -  :mizuno-small:  JPX 850 Pro

Wedges -  :callaway-small: Mac Daddy 2
Putter -   :taylormade-small: Spider Tour Red
Bag - Ogio Grom Stand

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shambles,

 

I absolutely agree with everything you said. We have seen many "contenders" come and go with Tiger. Most have had a very poor showing when paired directly with Tiger, especially on Sunday. I do not know how Rory will handle the Sunday pressure, but he has done one heck of a job with it so far this week. That par on 18 today was Tiger-like. Several times he had the opportunity to crumble but has not. I hope we will get to see them paired on Sunday with Robert Rock, but I fear Hanson will be with Rock and Tiger. Sunday crowds will not be like here in the US because it is a work day.


 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The cousin that I was talking to is the one that is going to go to US Open qualifying; I told him that if he would now or ever make it into a group with Tiger that he was going to have to duct tape my jaw to keep it from dragging on the ground the whole time. Those young guys can say they aren't scared of Tiger, because they weren't around at the top of his game, when they get into a Sunday final grouping with him, it's going to be shock and awe and I agree, it will be the best thing for golf.

 

I'm clearly in the minority here, and he's still making his way back, but while Tiger still looks to be a very, very good golfer, I don't see anything particularly shocking or awesome yet. He's a study in competence rather than magic right now, and I don't think he carries the aura of inevitability into Sunday afternoon that he once did.

 

Physically, he looks to be in great shape, but bad knees have a way of not caring how well sculpted the rest of your body might be, so it's still pretty difficult to guess as to how that piece of it will play out for him.

 

As for the rivalry thing, who knows? Great rivalries emerge organically, on the course. The last thing I want to see is the media hyping up something that doesn't really exist.


Cleveland Black 10.5*

Ping G15 4W

Cleveland Mashie 18*

Cleveland Mashie 23*

Ping G15 5-W

Eidolon 51*

Ping G20 SW

Mizuno/Bettinardi BC-01

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RoverRick I'm right there with you, for some reason I can't help but watch Tiger and hope that he plays well and wins (great for the industry when he does, but I don't really care about him winning because of that, I think it's more that he's the first golfer I remember being able to identify on TV from anyone else, nostalgia always plays strong in my brain I guess)

 

As for second place, Rory is a good pick in my book.

 

This year I'm on board for Rory, Rickie and Tiger - they make the game more interesting.

 

Though Phil and Steve Stricker get a TON of respect in my book, and give me a glimmer of hope that maybe one day with enough practice I can still be a tour pro before I die! ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tiger and Phil were/are a great pairing. Tiger and Steve Stricker are great, but are they real challengers. They have proven not to be Tiger challengers. Several others have had the opportunity, but have not in the long run. Some have come to the forefront while Tiger was slumping but could not do it while he was at his best.

 

Of course, with Steve Williams winning all the tournaments for Adam Scott we have at least one challenger. I am shocked that he has not become #1 yet.

 

But the older golfers have had their chance and have not been consistant performers. Maybe the Rory, Ricky, Bud, or some other can do it. But Rory seems to handle the shock and awe. He did at the US Open and he did for three days here. I just wish they would allow it to happen again, but Hansen had the lower third round so he will be in the final group. So if Rory comes from behind, it will not mean as much to me as if he were in the group with Tiger.


 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of the Palmer - Nicklaus rivalries were developed at major championships on courses like Augusta National, Oakmont, and Baltusrol. A European Tour event at Abu Dhabi doesn't quite measure up to that level of importance. I expect Rory McIlroy to be a big part of future major championships, but I'm much less certain that Tiger will be.

 

However, it will be interesting to see how tomorrow's round plays out. If it comes down to the wire between Rory and Tiger with either one winning, it will be a big story. And it wouldn't surprise me to see Robert Rock winning. He could really launch a fine season and possibly a great career with a victory over the other favorites. Many times it is a opportunity like this that launches an unexpected player into the spotlight. I may have to get up early to watch the last nine holes live.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tiger today looks to me like Jack did in his waning years and also Arnold. Jack and Arnold were at the top of competition at the start of their decline and we developed a greater affection for them in that period. We already knew how good they had been and there was no need for them to prove it, just a hunger on our part to see it again, if possible. In the absence thereof, we strove to get to know them better. We watched silly things like Arnold hitching up his pants and the look on Jacks face when he knew his shot was going to miss. We felt a little bit of the pain they felt when it became clear they were not going to win this one either. I still remember the excitement of Jack's '86 win and how much excitement he was fighting to control as he marched towards a victory that had been an extraordinarily long time coming. We happily cheered at the bald faced lie flashing " JACK'S BACK ", knowing this moment was a lucky look into what used to be and would probably never be again.

 

I wonder if we will develop a similar affection for Tiger ? I still find it hard to believe that Tiger became a pro and won the first six events he entered. My memory must be lying. I watch and hope to see what used to be but feel, somewhere deep inside, it will probably never be again.

 

 

Shambles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it is over for now. Tiger did not look as sharp today, never got it going his way but I do not think that shooting an even par and tied for third finish is quite going in the tank. Yes, by Tiger's old standards it was, but it was not a bad round. Just missed the fairways, and then could never get near the hole. (More proof we need more kinds of balls, ;) sorry, different story.)

 

Rory did finish second. Not pair with Woods and Rock. but I think that will just prove my point.

 

I think Tiger showed his human side this week. He looked very nervous, both Thursday and Sunday. Why would he not be? All we have heard about was his demise.

 

I do not think we have even seen Tiger's Prime. With this new swing, he has much more control, he could once again get the putting back. We could see an even greater Tiger than before, and Rory may be a real deal also.

 

Just one tournament, but if we can have more like this than, I stand by my statement that this is not only good for golf in America but in the world.


 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the beauty of this rivalry....when it becomes one.....will be at yrs. end....during the Ryder Cup. Have these guys face off a couple of times this yr and watch the anticipation explode. Rivalries have to grow on the course....we can talk about it and try to create it.....but until they stand toe to toe with tournaments on the line....it's just wishful thinking. Sergio at Medina...looked like the start of a long and exciting rivalry that we could have debated for yrs....Turned out to be nothing of the sort. It takes years for rivalries to grow and mature. It takes players who's games have peaked at the same time....Norman vs Faldo.... Nicklaus vs Watson.....Snead vs Hogan.....and it takes time. Rory seems to have his game ready.....now we need Tiger to put it all together. Until then, we'll only have glimpses of what could be.Nikl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just saw the post round interviews with Tiger and Robert Rock. Tiger used the typical "lost the tournament speech", said he "did not play well enough to win and had more work to do". This is as opposed to the speech he would have given if he had won, "win but had more work to do before the next major."

 

Robert Rock dispells the comentators opinion that Tiger has lost the intimidation factor. Rock said he was plenty intimidated, and Tiger kept the pressure on. And Rock said he got lucky. I guess meaning that Tiger did not get any breaks.

 

This is not likely to become a rivalry but it was a good show. Rock is a good story.


 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe, just maybe we could have a real nail biter and shoot out between these guys in the next few weeks. Augusta Sunday would be cool.


 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What amuses me is how badly the talking heads want to anoint the next "One"...Granted, Rory is probably the most accomplished of the young guns, & he had an Open for the ages, especially coming off of his implosion @ Augusta, though people are constantly comparing him to a young Tiger..Last year's US Open victory was his third professional win, his 1st major & it was his 100th professional tournament..Tiger also won in his 100th tournament, except that it was his TWENTY-SEVENTH victory, and he had 9 majors under his belt by his 100th tournament..So @ the same point in their careers, Tiger had won NINE TIMES more tournaments & NINE TIMES more majors!!..Even with his win yesterday, I'm not ready to anoint Rory as the "One"..Talented, obviously, though to just think that Tiger won 1 out of every 4 tournaments he played in & Rory won, well I'm not going to do the decimal work on 3%, though you get the picture..He's got a way to go...Fairways & Greens 4ever....

 

 

I think that we are so inclined to jump on the Rory bandwagon because he has the natural talent that we have not really seen since Tiger, however, as far as who will be a true rival for Tiger or Rory or every one, you have to look at Keegan Bradley. This guy certainly is not flashy or overpowering but he is there every Sunday it seems. And is a presure player.


 

Driver:      :mizuno-small:  ST190G on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Fairway:   :mizuno-small:  ST190TS 15° on Fujikura ATMOS Black

Hybrids     :mizuno-small:  CLK 22 & 25 (set to 20° & 23°) on Fujikura SPEEDER

Irons:     :mizuno-small:  MP5 5-P on True Temper Dynamic Gold

Wedges: :mizuno-small: MP-T5 52*, 56* & 60* on True Temper Dynamic Gold Wedge

Putter:    :cameron-small: 2018 Select Newport 2

Balls:      :titelist-small: Pro V1X

Shoes:     :footjoy-small:

Range Finder: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does not really matter if Tiger never comes back to what he used to be. Tiger is an immortal in Golf because he did what he did and that can never be taken away. I also doubt anybody, including Tiger, can ever again do what Tiger did. Such opportunities are rare and fleeting. The worlds best golfers will fight back better this time. Be glad we saw a bit of the old Tiger that Sunday. That's a treasure I will keep in the same way I keep Jack's '86 victory.

 

Rory can lead the field or fight Tiger for leadership in the near future, provided Tiger does not come back fully. Golf will benefit if such happens because a struggle is always worth the watch. If Tiger comes back fully, we will cheer for a while and subsequently be bored watching to see who makes second place. Best of course, is if Tiger comes back fully and Rory proves to be even greater than he has shown so far. If that happens, Golf will probably experience a resurgence greater than the growth Tiger made for the game.

 

 

Shambles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I'm not ready to crown Rory the next Tiger, there are definite differences between how he played on Sunday vs how he played at Augusta last year. Mainly, he played very smart. His goal was for par golf so he didn't make any stupid mistakes. Luckily for him he has such incredible talent that it was still fun to watch, just not as fun (or painful) as when he's going all out. I can see him winning a few times this year, maybe even a major. But 7 wins? Probably not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even in their old age, Nicklaus and Watson went after each other when they were together in a flight. The same was true with Palmer and Nicklaus. Those old rivalries, where either golfer could take the win, had a way of making each golfer play harder and better even if neither had a chance at the trophy. They just didn't want to lose to each other. Anybody remember the Woods/Mediate battle for the U.S. Open ? Granted that the general feeling was that Woods would come away with the win, I think the audience, me for certain, was much entertained by the battle Mediate put up.

 

 

Shambles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will never happen. Rory is still growing as a golfer, and against most people opinion here, I think Tiger is farther and farther away from his form everyday, and It was shown again today in the Cadillac's...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will never happen. Rory is still growing as a golfer, and against most people opinion here, I think Tiger is farther and farther away from his form everyday, and It was shown again today in the Cadillac's...

 

You're probably right but for other reasons. Right now Tiger is among the top rank pros performance wise and doesn't really look like he is going to get all the way back. He seems to be settling downward in the same way his predecessors settled downwards at the end of their careers. Therefore, like his predecessors, we can expect to see a number of up and comings doing battle with him on their way up, with a number of them failing to show enough skill to get past him. This is the time for the young bucks to count coup against the old warrior. I just hope that if that holds true, we will be lucky enough to find a new dominant who truly deserves to be called dominating.

 

 

Shambles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...