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PReed and Bryson take the bag and head to LIV Golf


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2 more big names jump ship on the PGA Tour. No details yet known around money for both, but I'm betting that Bryson's number will be close to or beat Phil's $200million.

The PGA Tour has to start reacting to the mutiny or this may get ugly quicker than expected, but on a positive note for the Tour their rules official's just took a big breath of relief with these 2 gone.

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Just say it's the money. Bryson is not an innovator...

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One thing that I think is getting lost or underreported in this.  Only one player Kevin Na has resigned the tour as of yet.  The others like Graeme McDowell and I think DJ are just agreenig to play events on the LIV Tour-and of course taking money.   So they are still officially members of the Tour.  So now the ball will be in the Tours hands as to what action to take once the players actually tee it up in one of the LIV Tour events.   A fine of $100,000....Big effin deal!  A 6 month suspension....they may not care... A 1 year suspension...they might care a bit more but not freak out, they have been paid well more than they'd make in the next year.     A permanent ban.  Not likely, I dont' see the tour doing any Pete Rose type thign that would bring even more attention and disharmony on the discussion.   The tour will have to act fast with some sort of plan of action.   As it stands now, from what I have seen/read, there is nothing stopping DJ for example from playing this week in London then deciding to play in a tour event in early July.  He can just put his name down and plan to play.  

So in short, the ones who havent' "retsigned" from the tour, kind of have the upper hand.   

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5 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

One thing that I think is getting lost or underreported in this.  Only one player Kevin Na has resigned the tour as of yet.  The others like Graeme McDowell and I think DJ are just agreenig to play events on the LIV Tour-and of course taking money.   So they are still officially members of the Tour.  So now the ball will be in the Tours hands as to what action to take once the players actually tee it up in one of the LIV Tour events.   A fine of $100,000....Big effin deal!  A 6 month suspension....they may not care... A 1 year suspension...they might care a bit more but not freak out, they have been paid well more than they'd make in the next year.     A permanent ban.  Not likely, I dont' see the tour doing any Pete Rose type thign that would bring even more attention and disharmony on the discussion.   The tour will have to act fast with some sort of plan of action.   As it stands now, from what I have seen/read, there is nothing stopping DJ for example from playing this week in London then deciding to play in a tour event in early July.  He can just put his name down and plan to play.  

So in short, the ones who havent' "retsigned" from the tour, kind of have the upper hand.   

It was reported that DJ and some others did resign from the PGA Tour.

https://sports.yahoo.com/dustin-johnson-sergio-garcia-others-resign-from-pga-tour-for-liv-golf-114002117.html

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1 minute ago, LICC said:

Ok, I missed that statement from him.   

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I have no love lost for Reed, BAD is a different story as I think he is great for the PGA.

Still the fact that the LVI is getting more and more top tier players signed up, is making it very interesting.

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Got to be honest!  The PGA Tour better quickly re-think its contention that in order to play on our tour, since for the longest time we were the only game in town, We(PGA Tour) have the right to tell you where you can and can't use your abilities to make money.  Because I think the foundation of their we "the PGA are unsinkable , and unassailable, and its our ball, and if you don't want to play by our rules, we're going to take our ball and go home" is failing fast.  Guess what someone else brought a ball to play with, and their ball basically is coated with money every time you catch it.  PGA Tour better quickly think about "sharing" the golf tournament spoils.

A few more names and someone will pay for a TV contract, so these can be watched.

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17 minutes ago, stuka44 said:


Got to be honest!  The PGA Tour better quickly re-think its contention that in order to play on our tour, since for the longest time we were the only game in town, We(PGA Tour) have the right to tell you where you can and can't use your abilities to make money.  Because I think the foundation of their we "the PGA are unsinkable , and unassailable, and its our ball, and if you don't want to play by our rules, we're going to take our ball and go home" is failing fast.  Guess what someone else brought a ball to play with, and their ball basically is coated with money every time you catch it.  PGA Tour better quickly think about "sharing" the golf tournament spoils.

A few more names and someone will pay for a TV contract, so these can be watched.

 

13 minutes ago, Shankster said:

This could get a little more interesting than I thought.  It is only a matter of time that perhaps we see a LII tour, LIV’s Korn Ferry equivalent…. The ripples will be around for decades.

I think decades is a stretch. Despite what's said about the Saudi money, they won't sink another $2 billion into the league in a year if it's already losing traction. Having no co-sponsors is a dangerous game. Will a CBS or NBC pick up a TV contract for the Saudi league knowing full well they won't be able to charge a premium for ads because of the affiliation? TV contracts only work if there is someone willing to brand themselves alongside the Saudi league. I doubt AT&T and Morgan Stanley are going to pay for advertisements with that league.

In my opinion, the best response from the PGA Tour would be to take the pieces of the Saudi League that are exciting to fans like the team aspect and the pieces that are exciting to players/caddies give stipends for Thursday and Friday, pay for travel expenses, etc. and announce they will be implementing that for the 22-23 season. If you create a more viewable and captivating sport and share the revenue generated then this will never spread to the top players, Saudi League will continue to be a destination for the forgotten and disliked until it dies.

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I think everyone should be careful not to underestimate the amount of money that the Saudi's have to throw at improving their image.  I believe they will be willing to throw money at this thing year after year forever, as long as it appears it is improving their image.  They had to go into this knowing it was going to be a a hard sell, and was going to be a money loser.  To improve their image in the world, they may not care that it doesn't make money.  How many things does every country do, that don't technically "make" money, but they keep on doing it anyway.  

As for TV, again I think the Saudi's if they get enough stars to play, will basically give away a TV contract.  Let's not forget streaming services, that they could probably come up with to watch the events.

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1 hour ago, LICC said:

To me, this bolsters the PGA Tour's position.  A number of players have chosen not to contest the terms of the contract they have (or had) with the PGA Tour, choosing instead to resign their membership.  If it was the legal slam-dunk that Greg Norman has claimed, these players would probably be much more inclined to stay in the Tour and fight.

47 minutes ago, stuka44 said:


Got to be honest!  The PGA Tour better quickly re-think its contention that in order to play on our tour, since for the longest time we were the only game in town, We(PGA Tour) have the right to tell you where you can and can't use your abilities to make money.  Because I think the foundation of their we "the PGA are unsinkable , and unassailable, and its our ball, and if you don't want to play by our rules, we're going to take our ball and go home" is failing fast.  Guess what someone else brought a ball to play with, and their ball basically is coated with money every time you catch it.  PGA Tour better quickly think about "sharing" the golf tournament spoils.

A few more names and someone will pay for a TV contract, so these can be watched.

These players agreed to the PGA Tour terms when they signed their new yearly contract every year.  I think this year the Majors will allow entry to those who have satisfied their entry requirements, similar to the USGA for the US Open.  But for next year, don't many of those requirements pertain to PGA Tour earnings, or OWGR positions?  Will the OWGR include results from the LIV Tour, or will they be forced to include them?  Field size matters in OWGR, as does strength of field, will small-field no-cut events with mostly average players produce high rankings?  54-hole events are generally awarded fewer points.  All this is to say that although LIV players might be eligible for Majors, they may not be able to earn enough OWGR points to be automatically invited.  And if the players find that the great money doesn't take the place of participation in the Majors, will they want to return to the PGA Tour?

This isn't to say that the Players Advisory Council won't work with PGA Tour management to look at innovations and changes.  But I don't think the situation is as dire for the Tour as you do.

No network will pay to televise these events without sponsors (advertisers) willing to cover the costs.  Given the current image of the Saudis, networks may have a difficult time finding those advertisers.

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The USGA is allowing players who qualified for the US Open to play regardless of their involvement in LIV--at least for 2022.  I think Dave does an excellent job of highlighting the issue regarding qualification criteria for future opens.  Here is a summary of the qualification criteria for this year's tournament.  

 

https://www.golflink.com/list_113_rules-qualify-us-golf-open.html

 

In the box in the article, numbers 8,9,10,11 and 12 are exemptions tied to performance on the PGA or European Tour.  15 and 16 are based on WGR.  17, 18 and 19 are tied to other tours.  

 

I saw an interview with a USGA official yesterday.  He said that the USGA eligibility requirements were published months ago and any player who met the qualifications would be allowed to play.  Basically, they weren't going to change the rules for this year.  He mentioned that the rules for qualification have changed over time and will probably change again.  No real surprises there.  

He also talked about how it is relatively easy to start a new league, but difficult to sustain one.  The USGA is talking a wait and see approach.  I don't see them adding performance on LIV to the qualification criteria (similar to current items 8-12 for the PGA) in the short term.  

 

The WGR will be interesting to watch.  Anyone have a clue on how the WGRs are going to treat the LIV events?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

These players agreed to the PGA Tour terms

I understand your point.  Yes they did.  But the American sports fan on the whole doesn't care.  Players sign contracts all the time then demand a trade, before the contract is up, sit out a season.  I am in the minority, and hope he never plays a snap for the Cleveland Browns, but most fans here are hoping for a light suspension, and hoping Deshawn Watson(and his $230 Million) can win us a Super Bowl, regardless of what he actually may or may not have done.

The PGA clearly has most of the stars at this point.  But 3 months ago, it was everyone saying "nobody" of any name was going to the LIV.  Now there is Johnson, Reed, and DeChambeau.  If more depart, fans will want to watch, regardless of where the prize money is coming from, and what is going on in Saudi Arabia.

And before we put the PGA on a pedestal, lets not forget that they are using legal jargon, and excuses of it "being a Subsidiary" to avoid telling the IRS exactly how much money they gave to China for the China PGA, whose human rights record, is far from being stellar.  I'm not saying it will happen overnight, but the PGA should be careful believing that people like the PGA, more than they like the players.  I understand that people had to watch PGA events, because it was all there was.  The PGA should realize that most fans don't care who sponsors the tournaments, and that people watched the players, not because they were PGA Tour events.  If enough well known players go then fans, networks, businesses to advertise, and anything else needed, will excuse and rationalize and be involved if eventually there is money to be made.  It is just human nature in this world we live in.

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50 minutes ago, alfriday101 said:

The WGR will be interesting to watch.  Anyone have a clue on how the WGRs are going to treat the LIV events?  

I took a look at some of it, that's why I mentioned strength of field and field size in my previous post.  I'm sure there are details out there, I'm just too lazy to go too deep into understanding them.  My take-away, from my very limited research, is that small field 54 hole events with largely mediocre fields aren't going to get a lot of OWGR points, less than a typical Barracuda Championship, played opposite the Open Championship..

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BAD's comets at the Memorial about going over to LIV: 

” DeChambeau said. “For me, I personally don't think that at this point in time I'm in a place in my career where I can risk things like that". 

Tell me that the deal wasn't almost done or finalized at the Memorial. What a sack of s**t. I certainly won't miss him or Reed. 

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Once the PGA gives the $50 million players pool #1 spot to Tiger again like last year, you will see more and more players on the move.

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5 hours ago, Shankster said:

Two of Golf’s most likable dudes… ✌

 

... How awesome would it be if this turned out to be a scam sent out to weed the tour of undesirables or at least polarizing players? 

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16 minutes ago, GaDawg said:

Once the PGA gives the $50 million players pool #1 spot to Tiger again like last year, you will see more and more players on the move.

I don't think a single player has a problem with the tour rewarding Tiger. Tiger brought more money to golf than anyone in the history of the game and he continues to bring eyes to the game while he plays 4 events a year

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1 minute ago, chisag said:

 

... How awesome would it be if this turned out to be a scam sent out to weed the tour of undesirables or at least polarizing players? 

Checks notes: Saudi League has BAD, Reed, Na, Sergio. Hmmm logic checks out

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3 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... How awesome would it be if this turned out to be a scam sent out to weed the tour of undesirables or at least polarizing players? 

“Turns out it was Monopoly money… and all of them have their houses up for sale because Jay said, once you go the dark side there is no turning back…” - Reporter in 3 weeks.

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Just now, Shankster said:

“Turns out it was Monopoly money… and all of them have their houses up for sale because Jay said, once you go the dark side there is no turning back…” - Reporter in 3 weeks.

 

... And maybe orchestrated by the husbands of the players wives DJ "allegedly" had afternoon delights with OR Reeds ex college team mates OR anyone ever paired up with Na in an event OR Hogans relatives when DeChambeau decided to wear the trademarked newsboy chapeau. 

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I am clearly in the minority here.  I like watching quirky Kevin Na, who at one point couldn't make a swing.  Sergio who took so long to win the masters.  Say what you want about DeChambeau.  I can't describe any shot I've watched in golf in the last 5 years.  Can't relate a single shot Scottie Sheffler made in winning the Masters.  But I will never forget, the set up angle, and Dechambeau jacking that ball across the water at Bayhill twice!!!!EVER!  Don't care what his score was on the hole, it was exciting.  That's what people want to watch, and if more like him go, people will watch, when I can I will be.

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Looks like Pat Perez isn’t far behind. 
 

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7 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

I am clearly in the minority here.  I like watching quirky Kevin Na, who at one point couldn't make a swing.  Sergio who took so long to win the masters.  Say what you want about DeChambeau.  I can't describe any shot I've watched in golf in the last 5 years.  Can't relate a single shot Scottie Sheffler made in winning the Masters.  But I will never forget, the set up angle, and Dechambeau jacking that ball across the water at Bayhill twice!!!!EVER!  Don't care what his score was on the hole, it was exciting.  That's what people want to watch, and if more like him go, people will watch, when I can I will be.

 

... Plenty of people love Howard Stern.  🙄  Of course probably more can't stand the guy. I think it is all personality driven. All of them have had issues with other players or more accurately other players have had issues with them. If BD didn't berate officials when he didn't get a ruling he wanted or next to never yell FORE! when driving into crowds or call out camera guys for doing their job he probably would have a lot more fans for his swashbuckling style of play. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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1 hour ago, Shankster said:

I bet Bryson wins the inaugural LIV Long Drive championship…

He will hit the winning drive on his first attempt, hurt a shoulder on his second attempt and be on the DL the next two years.

46 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

BAD's comets at the Memorial about going over to LIV: 

” DeChambeau said. “For me, I personally don't think that at this point in time I'm in a place in my career where I can risk things like that". 

Tell me that the deal wasn't almost done or finalized at the Memorial. What a sack of s**t. I certainly won't miss him or Reed. 

I am sure it was negotiated by then but the deposit hadnt cleared his cayman island account until 4 minutes before he announced he was going.

Modern Bag:  :ping-small: G410 LST 10.5*, Hzrdus Smoke RDX 6.5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 18* 2h, 23* 4h & 27* 5h; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 6 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  Edison 2.0 49*, 53*, 57* KBS Tour 120 S;   :ping-small:  Heppler Fetch;  Ball - :Snell: MTB-X; Bag - Jones MyGolfSpy Edition! 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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29 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... And maybe orchestrated by the husbands of the players wives DJ "allegedly" had afternoon delights with OR Reeds ex college team mates OR anyone ever paired up with Na in an event OR Hogans relatives when DeChambeau decided to wear the trademarked newsboy chapeau. 

Or perhaps it turns out to be the biggest thing to happen to golf and the joke is on all of those who oppose it…?

Im just saying… it could have positive effects on tournament golf that we all know as the PGA tour.

Also. Those who resined… are they technically amateurs now?

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