Tour lays the hammer: Indefinite Suspension for all players who participate in LIV

[TCUfrog]

The PGA Tour has dropped the hammer by indefinitely suspending all players who participate in any LIV golf including banning sponsor's exemptions for those players. Keyboard lawyers, let's leave it at the door, but this is quite the message by the PGA Tour. 

[GaDawg]

[Middler]

So resigning made no difference as some of us thought. Just Act I in what will probably be a long drawn out story, unless the Saudis stop the money.

[cnosil]

This will be interesting to watch long term.   We are in year 1 of LIV and to make the product more marketable they need name recognition; hence the players that are being thrown lots of money.   If the tour becomes successful, the next target for players is the young up and comer on the KFT and in college.  At that point with lesser amounts of guaranteed money they can essentially lower the caliber of play on the PGA tour as time passes and we get to say year 5. 

[LICC]

25 minutes ago, Middler said:

So resigning made no difference as some of us thought. Just Act I in what will probably be a long drawn out story, unless the Saudis stop the money.

Maybe, maybe not. Those who resigned cannot re-apply for membership until after next year's season. Theoretically, suspended players could change their minds and be back sooner.

[LICC]

10 minutes ago, cnosil said:

This will be interesting to watch long term.   We are in year 1 of LIV and to make the product more marketable they need name recognition; hence the players that are being thrown lots of money.   If the tour becomes successful, the next target for players is the young up and comer on the KFT and in college.  At that point with lesser amounts of guaranteed money they can essentially lower the caliber of play on the PGA tour as time passes and we get to say year 5. 

I can easily see LIV get a decent amount of views for the first or second tournament and then it drops like a rock after the curiosity factor goes away. We will see.

[Middler]

I watched the LIV tournament on YouTube for 4-5 minutes this morning. Poor resolution/production quality and a gimmicky scoreboard, but it's too early to judge their product, even though I won't be watching. Didn't see any shot tracer, but maybe I didn't watch long enough. Phil was playing, his gallery was literally two dozen people - hilarious. Scores weren't that great, most players over par. I didn't recognize the voices of the commentators, but I don't care enough to do a search on who they are...

[MyWifesSwingCoach]

2 hours ago, LICC said:

Maybe, maybe not. Those who resigned cannot re-apply for membership until after next year's season. Theoretically, suspended players could change their minds and be back sooner.

This sounds like it ignores the "Indefinite" aspect of the suspension and it also assumes that a contract will be offered even if the player changes their mind.

[Gusset]

3 hours ago, Middler said:

I watched the LIV tournament on YouTube for 4-5 minutes this morning. Poor resolution/production quality and a gimmicky scoreboard, but it's too early to judge their product, even though I won't be watching. Didn't see any shot tracer, but maybe I didn't watch long enough. Phil was playing, his gallery was literally two dozen people - hilarious. Scores weren't that great, most players over par. I didn't recognize the voices of the commentators, but I don't care enough to do a search on who they are...

Can't be easy to judge the broadcast on such a small sample...maybe you caught a bad 4-5 minutes?

Quality was good for me (I watched on livgolf.com). There was a fair amount of shot tracer, but a lot of shots didn't have it also. Maybe they don't have it on all holes, and it gets lost due to the shotgun start and covering the whole course throughout the whole broadcast?

After a few minutes to get used to it, I liked the leader board concept. I also like that it was constantly present, instead of coming and (mostly) going as I'm used to on televised PGA Tour events. LIV's leader board is definitely a big improvement once you understand it, IMHO.

One criticism I have, though, is that they never showed distance to the pin for shots. I could also do with less sugary LIV cheer leading from the commentators, but I can't hold that against them, given that it's the inaugural broadcast and they're trying to drum up support...other than that they were fine.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Gusset
typo

[LICC]

2 hours ago, MyWifesSwingCoach said:

This sounds like it ignores the "Indefinite" aspect of the suspension and it also assumes that a contract will be offered even if the player changes their mind.

I'll correct that for you:

This is consistent with the "indefinite"  aspect  of the suspension and it also assumes that a contract could be offered if the player changes their mind.

[hartrick11]

I don't necessarily blame a lot of those guys for opting for generational wealth without having to put in any extra work, but I am happy that they were kicked off the tour Doug.  Hope LIV fails hard.

[Reesedw]

IMO.. After reading Jay Monahan's statement, TO me.. It made the tour sound petty, the old I'm taking my ball and going home, type of statement. I hope the players take the money and run all the way to the bank. I also think the LIV will go the  way XFL did, create some buzz have a couple of good tourney's, do to curiosity, and fizzle out. Let them spend their money like crazy and when they realize it's never going to be What the PGA and R & A are it will become nothing more than a footnote in Golfing history. Jay Monahan should have had more trust and respect for the Tour, it's Sponsors, and fans, and let the superior product do his talking. Acknowledge them but do not give in, stand proud and be the bigger man. If someone like Phil or G Mac, toward the end of their career can make enough money for 8 tournaments  set up his kids for the rest of their Lives, I would probably do the same.. 

 

That's my $.02 worth for what it's worth.

[MacTourney]

I'm not impressed so far, especially the gimmicky leader board, so for now it's a toss up between LIV and roller derby reruns.

[DaveP043]

8 hours ago, LICC said:

I can easily see LIV get a decent amount of views for the first or second tournament and then it drops like a rock after the curiosity factor goes away. We will see.

But they don't need even a single viewer, they're not trying to sell advertising, and the guarantees and the prize money more than make up for any lost endorsements that middle-of-the-pack guys are likely to get.

3 hours ago, Reesedw said:

IMO.. After reading Jay Monahan's statement, TO me.. It made the tour sound petty, the old I'm taking my ball and going home, type of statement.

To me, it sounded like the Tour is saying "These guys have signed a contract with us, and we expect them to abide by the terms of the contract they signed."  

I said it in another thread, I think these guys are going to miss out on the chance to play in Majors.  Not that anyone has to change rules, just that the OWGR awarding a lot of points for small field 54-hole events with so-so fields.  If they're OK with that, no problem, if they're not, they'll petition to come back.  That's when the PGA will have the chance to appear magnanimous.  I don't know if they will, but its up to them.

Edited June 10, 2022 by DaveP043

[RollingGreens]

What happens if the college kids start playing their because they get more starts than what the Koran ferry or PGA tour will give them in amateur status. Now the tour has lost their future pipeline to LIV. Also if the LIV roster gets heavier with more players jumping on the bandwagon, obviously the strength of field will be effected where the tour will have to do something or risk losing sponsors and tv deals. The house that was bulletproof for many years just had a bullet go through it, and they are vulnerable. At some point this will be handled in court and I think the FTC handles their business this time around without meddling from governors and senators like 1994 with Greg Norman.  Players want to capitalize on the opportunity, I don’t agree with the source they’re using to achieve this but it was bound to happen with someone.

[LICC]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

But they don't need even a single viewer, they're not trying to sell advertising, and the guarantees and the prize money more than make up for any lost endorsements that middle-of-the-pack guys are likely to get.

Yes but I’m guessing the Saudis want some level of exposure with this. If it falls to minuscule viewership, they may pull the plug in a year or two. 

[Headhammer]

I watched it for about an hour and thought the coverage was quite good for a first time broadcast. Jerry Foltz was excellent as a commentator, but like others I'm not sold on the scoreboard and the constant beeping/tone. Perhaps just a flashing kiron when the coverage switches to a player would be good. I know the PGA Tour had a to a take a stance for their sponsors, but the "they don't want to play for us, screw 'em we won't let them" stance is bit sophomoric. 

[DaveP043]

15 minutes ago, Headhammer said:

I know the PGA Tour had a to a take a stance for their sponsors, but the "they don't want to play for us, screw 'em we won't let them" stance is bit sophomoric. 

I said it again, this  is what just about any entity would do if someone breaches a contract.  If the Tour did not take this kind of action, it would be a lot easier for players to jump ship, to the point where the Tour really would be damaged.  And if the Tour doesn't take action now, they really would have a tough time selectively enforcing contract terms when more players breach them in the future.

[RollingGreens]

53 minutes ago, Headhammer said:

I watched it for about an hour and thought the coverage was quite good for a first time broadcast. Jerry Foltz was excellent as a commentator, but like others I'm not sold on the scoreboard and the constant beeping/tone. Perhaps just a flashing kiron when the coverage switches to a player would be good. I know the PGA Tour had a to a take a stance for their sponsors, but the "they don't want to play for us, screw 'em we won't let them" stance is bit sophomoric. 

Jerry foltz severely underrated for the work he did on the LPGA. Truly a joy to watch week in and week out 

[fixyurdivot]

Bad decision on Monahan's part... I think this comes back to bite the PGA big time.  They should have granted exemptions while still holding players responsible for meeting their minimum number of events.  Either Jay and the PGA staff are that worried about LIV actually having a half-life that exceeds that of a mayfly, or he and other staff are letting their political views drive the ship, or both.  IMO they should have handled the Shark Tour like DP, Euro, Asian and the rest.  In all likelihood, the newness wears off and it fizzles into background noise.

Instead, he took a nuclear approach and overplayed his hand.  Current and perspective multi-millionaires do not like being threatened in this manner.

[Muckinfiddle]

11 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

 

I said it in another thread, I think these guys are going to miss out on the chance to play in Majors.  Not that anyone has to change rules, just that the OWGR awarding a lot of points for small field 54-hole events with so-so fields.  If they're OK with that, no problem, if they're not, they'll petition to come back.  That's when the PGA will have the chance to appear magnanimous.  I don't know if they will, but its up to them.

Some of the guys have to be realistic about possibly being a major winner and see the benefits to their retirement. 

11 hours ago, RollingGreens said:

What happens if the college kids start playing their because they get more starts than what the Koran ferry 

Freudian slip?...  

[LICC]

34 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Bad decision on Monahan's part... I think this comes back to bite the PGA big time.  They should have granted exemptions while still holding players responsible for meeting their minimum number of events.  Either Jay and the PGA staff are that worried about LIV actually having a half-life that exceeds that of a mayfly, or he and other staff are letting their political views drive the ship, or both.  IMO they should have handled the Shark Tour like DP, Euro, Asian and the rest.  In all likelihood, the newness wears off and it fizzles into background noise.

Instead, he took a nuclear approach and overplayed his hand.  Current and perspective multi-millionaires do not like being threatened in this manner.

Monahan did exactly the right thing. LIV is a rival seeking to damage the PGA Tour and he is fighting back to minimize LIV. Allowing Tour stars to go bolster and make LIV a stronger competitor would be self-damaging.

[DaveP043]

32 minutes ago, Muckinfiddle said:

Some of the guys have to be realistic about possibly being a major winner and see the benefits to their retirement. 

Absolutely, the potential of NOT playing in the Majors won't be a real negative for many players, especially the older ones and the journeyman-level players.  

[Tom the Golf Nut]

As far as I'm concerned:

1) It's just more golf to watch if I choose to watch.  I watched for an hour or so yesterday. Yup, it's still just more golf.  

2) It's no different than any one of us changing jobs to make more money. A lot more money. Sometimes you change jobs because it is just time for a change or you are tired of the politics. I was loyal to companies I worked for but at the end of the day you do what's best for your family, your future, and your retirement.

3) The amount of money being paid out is equivalent to every event being a Major (and then some). 

4) This could be a flash in the pan Tour. Here today and gone tomorrow. Time will tell.

[Muckinfiddle]

I don't have cable, so live professional golf on youtube for free... Well... I might have to watch a little...

[GaDawg]

 

[fixyurdivot]

7 hours ago, LICC said:

Monahan did exactly the right thing. LIV is a rival seeking to damage the PGA Tour and he is fighting back to minimize LIV. Allowing Tour stars to go bolster and make LIV a stronger competitor would be self-damaging.

Saudi involvement aside, I'm curious why you see LIV as "a rival seeking to damage the PGA" and not the Euro, DP, Asian, or other tours?  Corporations lose talent to other competitors, existing and brand new start-up's, everyday. The PGA does not own exclusive rights to professional golf tours and, when/if LIV fizzles, another contender is likely to challenge later. Jay and the PGA are, IMO, showing their lack of confidence in their product. 

[chisag]

8 hours ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

It's no different than any one of us changing jobs to make more money. A lot more money. Sometimes you change jobs because it is just time for a change or you are tired of the politics. I was loyal to companies I worked for but at the end of the day you do what's best for your family, your future, and your retirement.

 

... Sure, under certain terms but most people draw a line in the sand someplace. It is one thing to work for a Candy company that sells high fructose corn syrup products for kids but quite another to change jobs for a marketing position with a Tobacco/Vape company selling to kids for "a lot more money". CEO to Employee ratio was 20 times back when companies cared about their employees ... not stock options, insane bonuses and a salary 370 times what their employees make or closing plants and putting thousands out of work to Maximize Profits for the CEO, Board and Shareholders. When it becomes about just the money, good things rarely follow. But this is probably one of those threads where we are listening the sound of our own voice and nobody is changing or even altering their opinions because of anything they read here. 

[LICC]

13 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Saudi involvement aside, I'm curious why you see LIV as "a rival seeking to damage the PGA" and not the Euro, DP, Asian, or other tours?  Corporations lose talent to other competitors, existing and brand new start-up's, everyday. The PGA does not own exclusive rights to professional golf tours and, when/if LIV fizzles, another contender is likely to challenge later. Jay and the PGA are, IMO, showing their lack of confidence in their product. 

The other tours aren’t trying to steal away the PGA Tour players or otherwise attack the PGA Tour. 
Corporations don’t help their competitors take away their key employees. For the most similar situations, corporations have top talent sign restrictive covenants and non-compete agreements. 
Actually, by suspending players Jay is showing confidence that the PGA Tour will be better without them. 

[DaveP043]

14 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Jay and the PGA are, IMO, showing their lack of confidence in their product. 

I see it differently.  Each player has a contract with the PGA Tour.  Several players have either resigned their membership, or have breached the contract.  The Tour is simply enforcing the contract terms.  The players shouldn't expect to enjoy the privileges of membership in the PGA Tour if they choose not to follow the Rules of the PGA Tour, the rules they agreed to in their contract.  If the Tour doesn't enforce the contracts right now, they may lose the ability to enforce them later.