Are we Too reliant on our technology or should I say electronics?????

[Reesedw]

Playing Last Sat. on a course I've played a few times before so I knew the course, but not enough to know my distances to specific places, lay-up areas, hazards, ect.. Midway through the round my range finder ( Bushnell yardage Pro, about 15 yrs old.) dies. I hope it's just the battery, but not sure yet.. I felt lost. I had to "eyeball" the distances (NO distances on sprinkler heads or other markers on the course), which got me thinking are we too reliant on our technology, Electronics (no i do not want to go back to wound balls and hickory sticks No offense @BIG STU)? We go to the course with a rangefinder, GPS, and our PHONES.. As hectic as it was trying to choose clubs and shots.. I kinda enjoyed going through the process of analyzing the shot, figuring out the yardage, what shot to hit ect... Have we as golfers lost some of the gamesmanship that is golf due to technology and the drive to get lower scores while losing the skill to beat the course as the game was designed?? 

I hope this all makes sense, in my head it does but then again it might sound like the ramblings of a 5 yr old to everyone else.. Thanks.. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Reesedw

[Kanoito]

I had this issue a couple of weeks ago... I teed off early in the morning, it was foggy as hell, so LRF didn't work... and I didn't have my GPS watch with me.

I was playing 9 holes with my daughter and I just asked her to count her steps to the green and come back... a human range finder

I think dependency on technology isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just convenience and time-saving. But everybody should learn the "old way" in case of emergency...

[BIG STU]

4 minutes ago, Reesedw said:

Playing Last Sat. on a course I've played a few times before so I knew the course, but not enough to know my distances to specific places, lay-up areas, hazards, ect.. Midway through the round my range finder ( Bushnell yardage Pro, about 15 yrs old.) dies. I hope it's just the battery, but not sure yet.. I felt lost. I had to "eyeball" the distances (NO distances on sprinkler heads or other markers on the course), which got me thinking are we too reliant on our technology, Electronics (no i do not want to go back to wound balls and hickory sticks No offense @BIG STU)? We go to the course with a rangefinder, GPS, and our PHONES.. As hectic as it was trying to choose clubs and shots.. I kinda enjoyed going through the process of analyzing the shot, figuring out the yardage, what shot to hit ect... Have we as golfers lost some of the gamesmanship that is golf due to technology and the drive to get lower scores while losing the skill to beat the course as the game was designed?? 

I hope this all makes sense, in my head it does but then again it might sound like the ramblings of a 5 yr old to everyone else.. Thanks.. 

No offense taken----- If the technical digital stuff helps your game and enhances your fun so be it---- I guess when I was playing comp etc I had my version of it especially mapping out a course except I scribbled in a notebook------ And LOL I do not play Hickory all that much but I do play 40 and 50 year old equipment----- Everyones goals and fun factors are different----- Me since I am retired I do not take golf seriously anymore--- That does not go to say I do not have a competive streak and will try hard to beat someone especially in the weekly Shootout. With my physical injuries and having to revamp my swing 180* I have had my challenges. I have went from a bomb and go find it hit it again guy to a more methodical plotting guy--- But heck it is all fun to me and I feel blessed to still be able to attempt to play this game even if I am a shadow of my former self golf wise. Yes I am blessed that I am not in a wheelchair. I have always marched to the beaat of my own drum in golf and life. I do my own thing and have absolutely no problem with someone else doing theirs

[null]

24 minutes ago, Reesedw said:

Playing Last Sat. on a course I've played a few times before so I knew the course, but not enough to know my distances to specific places, lay-up areas, hazards, ect.. Midway through the round my range finder ( Bushnell yardage Pro, about 15 yrs old.) dies. I hope it's just the battery, but not sure yet.. I felt lost. I had to "eyeball" the distances (NO distances on sprinkler heads or other markers on the course), which got me thinking are we too reliant on our technology, Electronics (no i do not want to go back to wound balls and hickory sticks No offense @BIG STU)? We go to the course with a rangefinder, GPS, and our PHONES.. As hectic as it was trying to choose clubs and shots.. I kinda enjoyed going through the process of analyzing the shot, figuring out the yardage, what shot to hit ect... Have we as golfers lost some of the gamesmanship that is golf due to technology and the drive to get lower scores while losing the skill to beat the course as the game was designed?? 

I hope this all makes sense, in my head it does but then again it might sound like the ramblings of a 5 yr old to everyone else.. Thanks.. 

Take this line of thinking and apply it to anywhere else in life and you'll realize how silly it sounds.

I assume you still use a map you bought at a gas station to help you on your road trips?

[Berg Ryman]

So, I think the question you're asking Dave is an interesting one. I see the use of rangefinders, stat trackers, etc, as another tool in the tool belt for people. Some people can become over reliant on tools or have favorites that they go back to so when you take it away, they may struggle to adapt.

I do think if you're a one course person, or at least a limited course person, maybe you don't need that rangefinder for every shot, but maybe you want to continue to use it to be safe on your approximations. To be fair, when I'm playing my usual round on a course I've been playing for almost 20 years, I can dial in pretty close to a couple of yards of a guess on yardage, but I'd admit on newer courses, I can miss by a wide margin, necessitating potential checks with playing partners with rangefinders or GPS... or maybe if the testing fairy thinks I've been a good Berg this year, *wink wink* 

I guess I say all of this to say it depends on time and place really as to how reliant we can be on electronics. I do think it could help ready you for anything to keep both sets of skill in rotation if at all possible. I'm fine with either situation right now, as long as you aren't overly slowing down my pace of play I'm all for anything!

[Berg Ryman]

2 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Take this line of thinking and apply it to anywhere else in life and you'll realize how silly it sounds.

I assume you still use a map you bought at a gas station to help you on your road trips?

FWIW and not to get crazy off topic, I do keep a pocket atlas in the glove box just in case... part of that Dad being a truck driver for a grocery store mentality

[BIG STU]

33 minutes ago, Kanoito said:

I had this issue a couple of weeks ago... I teed off early in the morning, it was foggy as hell, so LRF didn't work... and I didn't have my GPS watch with me.

I was playing 9 holes with my daughter and I just asked her to count her steps to the green and come back... a human range finder

I think dependency on technology isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just convenience and time-saving. But everybody should learn the "old way" in case of emergency...

I agree and this is funny

A few years back we had some team stuff going with the old Miura Mafia bunch. Our team was coming into 18 and was the last team in. The other bunch was on the porch overlooking the 18th. Now a Coastal fog had blown in and the rangefinders were as useless as a screen door on a Submarine. I know this course well and had noted the pin position when we made the turn. And it is a lay up par 4 and I had hit my point. One of my partners that day was the Pro there and a darn good player. The way that green is made there are only 4 pin positions and most of us locals refer to it as LF LR RR RF. I told him what my yardage was and the fact because of the fog and moisture I was hitting one club more. I hit and heard a roar from the porch go up. I told him either I hit it over or stobbed it. He took my advice on the club and he was a little in front of me and again we heard a roar. Come to find out I was at 10 feet and he had put it to 3 feet. Our other partners had hit the top side of the green and had difficult putts. It was so foggy by then they could not literally see the hole or the flag. One of them gave it a "screw it" rap and it went in from like 40 feet. The other one hit it all the way off the green. I could barely see my putt but I knew it was straight in and I made it. Pro made his. Now besides the team matches we had total birdie matches on the side and we won that pot. 3 birdies on the same hole in the fog. When the Pro and I played there every time from then on it was lets hit a Hail Mary shot on that hole. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by BIG STU

[BIG STU]

5 minutes ago, Berg Ryman said:

FWIW and not to get crazy off topic, I do keep a pocket atlas in the glove box just in case... part of that Dad being a truck driver for a grocery store mentality

I am an retired truck driver and a member of several FB Trucking groups and the GPS versus maps gets a lot of debate there. Basically it is a lot like golf old school versus new school. And you folks know what group I am in. LOL my Benz has a GPS that still works built in and per my SOP I still have my last Truckers Atlas In the pouch behind my seat. Do not know the reason truthfully these days because I do not go anywhere except to Church and to the Golf course all which are in a 5 mile radius of the house. LOL I did fill it up the other day with $4.50 per gal gas. I was only half empty and it was the first time I gassed up in like 8 months. 

[revkev]

Interesting topic and from my perspective the answer is no.  The game was and is designed to challenge a person to complete a course in the fewest possible number of shots while playing within the rules or to shoot the lowest score against a field with or without a legitimate handicap or to prevail in a match.  Very few of us think that or even play that way (strictly by the rules) so in that regard very few of us play the way the game was designed.

 

I don't think that's what the OP meant exactly though.  Too reliant is a difficult term to define. What's too reliant for you might not at all be reliant enough for me.  Even watching golf on TV we notice differences in what information players want while playing for millions of dollars in prize money.  There's nothing in the rule book that prevents them from getting all sorts of information from a caddy who has carefully studied the course and knows what shots his player hits.  While we don't have their skill its certainly helpful to have information like how far it is to a hazard, the pin, the front middle and back of the green, how far we hit each club, how much the wind or topography might hurt or help our shot.  For me its not too much information and I have little trouble taking it all in and completing a round in 3 1/2 hours.  

I'm finding it incredibly difficult to believe that a modern course doesn't at least have 150 yard markers on every hole let along yardages on sprinkler heads.  That's asking for slow play.

[cnosil]

GPS and rangefinders are more convenience items for me.  I stared when we had to step off distances based on yardage markers and could do it again if necessary.   Surprised you found a course with no markers.

im mixed about on course shot tracking.  I think I understand my game well enough to know where I need improvement.  
 

I am pro launch monitors but think some people get too wrapped up in chasing numbers.  

[Reesedw]

2 hours ago, jlukes said:

Take this line of thinking and apply it to anywhere else in life and you'll realize how silly it sounds.

I assume you still use a map you bought at a gas station to help you on your road trips?

Touche'.. I do not still use a map on road trips.. But I do still use one while hunting.. 

Seriously though, I felt lost. there are several courses I play that I know what club to hit based on where I sit.. but this time I did not have anything to go off of.. not even a sprinkler head.. WE are so dependent on technology and electronics that we forget how to do things when we no longer have them.. 

My daughter did not learn Cursive writing, why because it is no longer a priority.. Which to me is a shame..

[Tom the Golf Nut]

2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

 LOL I did fill it up the other day with $4.50 per gal gas. I was only half empty and it was the first time I gassed up in like 8 months. 

My gosh, I have to drive 100 miles a day and fill up twice a week. I wish I could retire! 

[alfriday101]

2 hours ago, Reesedw said:

 Have we as golfers lost some of the gamesmanship that is golf due to technology and the drive to get lower scores while losing the skill to beat the course as the game was designed?? 

The necessity to accurately estimate distances has slowly disappeared from golf.  I'm old enough to remember when 100 and 150 yard markers were first placed on my home course.  That was followed by the unfortunate trend when courses planted evergreens in the rough to mark the distances.  Pre-sprinkler heads days, those were the only two markers on the course.  

 

In one of his books, Jack Nicklaus talks about how he was one of the first pros to "map" a course before a tournament.  He would step off distances between bunkers and to trees so he and his caddie knew exact yardages.  When Jack started playing, other pros would just estimate the distances.  It didn't take too long for all pros to follow Jack's lead.  

Knowing precise distances filtered down to the rank amateur level, but it took a while. Courses started adding distance markers on to sprinkler heads.  The markers made it faster and easier for the golfer to know distances to the front or center of the green.  But to know exact distance to the pin required a pin sheet.  A little math was involved.  By that time, the skill of looking at a pin and accurately estimating the distance had pretty much died.  

Today's lasers and GPS just make the distance determination faster and more precise.  Is that better or worse for the game of golf?  I'll leave that up to the individual to decide. 

I can't say I overly rely on tech, but I probably over use it.  If my ball is slightly behind the 100 yard marker to a middle pin, I don't really need to measure, but I do.  I'm not good enough to care whether the pin is 103 vs. 100. 

I find the OP interesting because the course no longer has distances marked on sprinkler heads.  I guess the course decided that rangefinders and gps are so prevalent that there was little need to mark the heads or to have 100 or 150 yard markers.  The course seems to be forcing reliance on tech devices.  But is that really any different than a school library no longer ordering bound copies of Encyclopedia Brittanica when digital copies are so much cheaper?  

 

 

[BIG STU]

5 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

My gosh, I have to drive 100 miles a day and fill up twice a week. I wish I could retire! 

This day and time it may be cheaper to go ahead and retire. I know the other day I told my wife if I was still working part time like I was before I was hurt I would have probably quit by now because of gas and the prices on the road to eat. I was limited to how much I could work and draw my SS. I actually did a little math and determined it may have not been worth it with my limited hours. 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

2 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

This day and time it may be cheaper to go ahead and retire. I know the other day I told my wife if I was still working part time like I was before I was hurt I would have probably quit by now because of gas and the prices on the road to eat. I was limited to how much I could work and draw my SS. I actually did a little math and determined it may have not been worth it with my limited hours. 

I wish I could. Daughter in college and I have to get to my full retirement age of 67-1/2 to maximize Social Security. However I am still considering moving. I can sell my house and downsize to something more manageable as I get older and not have a mortgage. 

[Tom the Golf Nut]

Back on task. I am for technology but don't slow down the pace of play and don't be "that guy" who takes out his laser range finder when he is 20 yards off the green! Then he says, that's my 1/4 swing with a sand wedge. Dude its a feel thing when you are that close! 

[BIG STU]

19 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

Back on task. I am for technology but don't slow down the pace of play and don't be "that guy" who takes out his laser range finder when he is 20 yards off the green! Then he says, that's my 1/4 swing with a sand wedge. Dude its a feel thing when you are that close! 

Believe it or not I had a pick up partner on the Shootout Team ask for yardage about that distance. I got tired of the guy and told him the minimual distance for mine was 50 yards--- And he believed me---- Do not know if he was an tourist or what never to this day have we ever seen him again. And while he was not a jackwagon so to speak he did not say much. He was added to our 3 man team at the last minute. We were starting on #10 and he rode up said the guy in the club house told him to join us. He was strange never said like "good shot" etc.

[Reesedw]

3 hours ago, Berg Ryman said:

FWIW and not to get crazy off topic, I do keep a pocket atlas in the glove box just in case... part of that Dad being a truck driver for a grocery store mentality

My Mom still has a Thomas guide she uses..LOL

[THEZIPR23]

I would say yes, but with exceptions. It really is a convenience but not having a rangefinder puts my head in a weird space and I struggle due to that. 

The exception being golf is still golf and can be enjoyed with or without these conveniences. Last month we traveled to Rhode Island for wife's cousins wedding. I didn't take my clubs but I did play a round of golf. 2 of my wife uncles took me out and we enjoyed 18 holes. One of her uncles had an extra set I could use see pic  and I played without any technology (did use phone once as it was a blind shot) 

 

Again like I said I played with no technology . I knew going in that it was just going to be a fun round and had very little expectations going in. But while my score was a couple of shots worse than it would have been it was only about 3 shots and most of that was due to the greens. I was surprised that just guessing at a distance or just saying it was about an 8 iron and then hitting the shot was refreshing and didn't have a huge outcome on score. I didn't even take the time to walk off the yardages. 

Anyway, yes we are too reliant in golf and our daily lives as well, however we each are capable of still enjoying everything with this game without them. Which to me was a little bit surprising. 

[Reesedw]

I am not Against it in the least.. Just posing the question. And to Clarify the course did have 150 poles, but also had a lot of blind or at least Hidden hazards.. 

[GolfSpy MPR]

I'm as much a gadget guy as anyone. I rely on my smartwatch for distances on full swings and pull out my laser inside 100 for more granular measurements. And I'm not going to give those up, because they are legitimate tools within the rules as they stand.

But I am very sympathetic with the argument that they shouldn't be. It is for this reason that certain classic architects introduces features to trick the eye about distances. Being able to evaluate a distance accurately was, at one point, a skill that golf demanded.

Again, I'm not giving my gadgets up. I'm not even saying that they should be banned. But there is an aspect of the skill of golf that has been lost with the legalization of these tools.

[KC Golf]

OK  I am definitely guilty for using a lot of technology but am I using too much of it?  Not sure.  Am I too reliant on it… may be.  But I think it does speed play, does make my enjoyment of the game generally better.  Plus it gives me something to blame for the woes of my game.

Do I miss the old days of no technology and walking from the 150 yard marker to figure out my distances?  Sometimes.  

But I now get to play indoors in the Winter, so I think that’s been huge for me…

So count me Pro Technology! 

 

[GrumpyGolf]

I am pro tech and don't think that we rely on it too much, however, I also think that if you want to be a "good" golfer, you need to be able to figure out the yardage manually.  I don't think that it is asking too much of the courses to mark the 150 and 100 yard center of green points either via a sprinkler head, a post, or even a shrubbery on the side of the fairway, it may cost a little in the planning budget, but it would eliminate some, definitely not all, slow players.  When I stopped playing back in the early 00s, range finders were still frowned upon by the purists. Since coming back into the golf kingdom fold I have noticed that everyone has a range finder, a GPS, a smart watch, or something, and even the carts have built-in monitors with up to date distance for pin location.  I like having the info at arms length and once I am dialed back in on my club distances, I see it as making me believe more in my club selection so I am not standing over the ball debating between two different clubs.

Now that said, when the day comes and we have a Jetson's like scene where your hitting a remote controlled ball with a remote controlled jet powered club that is retrieved by a robot, then we can talk about being too reliant on technology.

[alfriday101]

4 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

I'm as much a gadget guy as anyone. I rely on my smartwatch for distances on full swings and pull out my laser inside 100 for more granular measurements. And I'm not going to give those up, because they are legitimate tools within the rules as they stand.

But I am very sympathetic with the argument that they shouldn't be. It is for this reason that certain classic architects introduces features to trick the eye about distances. Being able to evaluate a distance accurately was, at one point, a skill that golf demanded.

Again, I'm not giving my gadgets up. I'm not even saying that they should be banned. But there is an aspect of the skill of golf that has been lost with the legalization of these tools.

I draw the line with GPS and lasers on what should be legal.  They give you the distance--a measurement that is readily available by manual means for anyone wishing to step off distances or to scout a course and "map" it they way Nicklaus did.  But, I heartily support elevation range finders being banned.  I think being able to judge slope and how it affects ones shot is, and should remain a skill unaided by tech.  Same with wind speed gauges.  Feeling the wind and adjusting needs to stay a skill--seeing a flag blowing in the breeze and knowing its a one or two club wind.  Don't get me started on caddy apps....

[Kenny B]

12 hours ago, Reesedw said:

Playing Last Sat. on a course I've played a few times before so I knew the course, but not enough to know my distances to specific places, lay-up areas, hazards, ect.. Midway through the round my range finder ( Bushnell yardage Pro, about 15 yrs old.) dies. I hope it's just the battery, but not sure yet.. I felt lost. I had to "eyeball" the distances (NO distances on sprinkler heads or other markers on the course), which got me thinking are we too reliant on our technology, Electronics (no i do not want to go back to wound balls and hickory sticks No offense @BIG STU)? We go to the course with a rangefinder, GPS, and our PHONES.. As hectic as it was trying to choose clubs and shots.. I kinda enjoyed going through the process of analyzing the shot, figuring out the yardage, what shot to hit ect... Have we as golfers lost some of the gamesmanship that is golf due to technology and the drive to get lower scores while losing the skill to beat the course as the game was designed?? 

I hope this all makes sense, in my head it does but then again it might sound like the ramblings of a 5 yr old to everyone else.. Thanks.. 

Dave, you realize that the battery is sold in 2-packs.    My wife always has a spare in her bag for my Bushnell that she uses exclusively.  She actually gave her spare battery to a stranger that we were paired with on Sunday; I thought he was going to go apoplectic when his laser died.  I will sometimes ask for a yardage to the pin, but I use my Garmin GPS watch.  I like F, M, B numbers.  What club gets me to the green and what club puts me off the back.  It's funny that she almost always asks me how far to the front of the green.

I started playing in the 1990's, so no electronics.  I walked off yardages or guessed based on observation of the markers and my ball position.  I was no where near as consistent or accurate as I am today, so it didn't really matter anyway.  Yes, I have forgotten my GPS watch and had to play like I did 30 years ago.  The result?  Not much different from my regular scores; a little more scrambling, but I've played this course several times a week for 7 years.  I pretty much know what club I'm hitting when I get to my ball without looking at my GPS... but I do anyway.

BTW, my phone stays in my golf bag when I play and doesn't come out unless I want to take a picture... or call 911.

[Middler]

While I use a rangefinder often, I wear a GPS watch for scoring/stats and could use that for (less accurate) distance. But I’ve never been on a course, even “cow pastures”, that didn’t have 100-150 markers, most 200’s too. Pretty easy to pace off from them. I often pace off chips/pitches despite the technology we have. So I’m not reliant on tech to play golf even though I am also horrible at eyeballing distances.

OTOH we just lost high speed internet at home for 4 days - and life came to screeching halt - all 11 devices that rely on internet service were useless…

[Kanoito]

8 minutes ago, Middler said:

While I use a rangefinder often, I wear a GPS watch for scoring/stats and could use that for distance. But I’ve never been on a course, even “cow pastures”, that didn’t have 100-150 markers, most 200’s too. Pretty easy to pace off from them. I often pace off chips/pitches despite the technology we have. So I’m not reliant on tech to play golf.

OTOH we just lost high speed internet at home for 4 days - and life came to screeching halt - all 11 devices that rely on internet service…

Believe it or not, we still have courses that won't allow the use of LRF and that was the day I forgot my GPS watch...

I feel ya... our media converter for fiber died and no internet for 4 days as well. Nothing worked!!! Alarm was offline, smart home was offline, cameras were offline, etc... I was glad I could at least open the blinds and turn on the lights lol

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, Kanoito said:

Believe it or not, we still have courses that won't allow the use of LRF and that was the day I forgot my GPS watch...

????   Explain this to me.  Why do the not allow the use of rangefinders?   

[PMookie]

I was playing Saturday morning and I went to go check the yardage on a fairway marker instead of going where my cart partner had the cart. Guess what? No yardage markers anywhere!!! I was going to go “old school” and walk-off my yardage and couldn’t. Crazy! Sometimes I miss the old days of doing this, maybe I had a better “feel” for distance then, who knows, but I know I definitely play faster with a laser in-hand than having to find the markers and measuring my steps!  One technological advancement that I’ve found to be invaluable on-course are the wind readings in some of the GPS apps! Measuring the wind and the resultant gain/loss in distance is so good! I’ll keep that tech going forward!!!

[ParFore74x]

I’m okay with GPS or range finders on course, I use a watch for yardages myself. I like that I can just take a glance at my watch as I walk up to my ball and start the club selection process in my head based on distance. Might have to make some adjustments based on elevation, wind, or course challenges but no need to walk anything off before hand.