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Chipping from 50 yrds in


Handy
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... I often wonder how left brain and right brain tendencies play into this topic. I am not very analytical and much more right brain artistic. Golf is all about feel for me and while I respect analytical types that have methods for distances like a clock or body position system, etc I would be lost. I find so many variables from wind to pin placements to elevation that dictate how I hit a particular shot from inside 100 yds. How strong is the wind blowing when faced with a 20-70 yd shot into a 15? 20? 25 mph wind? Standing behind the shot I might choose a gw, pw, 9i or even an 8i depending on how strong the wind feels to me and whether it is uphill or downhill. This will also dictate how low I hit the ball and with how much energy. And every day is different so the shot I hit yesterday may be different today based on how I feel that particular round. I have no idea how far back I take my backswing but my guess is it is pretty consistent for a similar length in similar conditions. I have a very strong short game and I may mirror a clock method but purely by feel, not by positions. 
 

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9 hours ago, chisag said:

... I often wonder how left brain and right brain tendencies play into this topic. I am not very analytical and much more right brain artistic. Golf is all about feel for me and while I respect analytical types that have methods for distances like a clock or body position system, etc I would be lost. I find so many variables from wind to pin placements to elevation that dictate how I hit a particular shot from inside 100 yds. How strong is the wind blowing when faced with a 20-70 yd shot into a 15? 20? 25 mph wind? Standing behind the shot I might choose a gw, pw, 9i or even an 8i depending on how strong the wind feels to me and whether it is uphill or downhill. This will also dictate how low I hit the ball and with how much energy. And every day is different so the shot I hit yesterday may be different today based on how I feel that particular round. I have no idea how far back I take my backswing but my guess is it is pretty consistent for a similar length in similar conditions. I have a very strong short game and I may mirror a clock method but purely by feel, not by positions. 
 

😁 One day I want to sit down with you and have the mechanical vs feel discussion; I think it would be so educational.   Makes me vaguely member a topic that was presented in a Myers-Briggs course I had to take.  The instructor made 2 groups of 2 people (I was in one of the groups) and I think the topic was “Time” and we had something like 60 seconds to write down what that mad us think of.  Neither of the groups had overlapping answers because we thought differently.  

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6 hours ago, cnosil said:

😁 One day I want to sit down with you and have the mechanical vs feel discussion; I think it would be so educational.   Makes me vaguely member a topic that was presented in a Myers-Briggs course I had to take.  The instructor made 2 groups of 2 people (I was in one of the groups) and I think the topic was “Time” and we had something like 60 seconds to write down what that mad us think of.  Neither of the groups had overlapping answers because we thought differently.  

 

... Not sure we would accomplish much sitting and talking although I would certainly be up for it, but spending some time around a practice green putting and hitting pitches and chips with discussion would probably be very interesting. My ex playing pard back in Chicago is a real estate lawyer and a poor putter, especially his speed control. He always stepped off his putts and used a distance backstroke based on steps for distance. I asked him about up/downhill and sidehill puts and how did he account for that using his method. He said for up/downhill he just adjusted his distance talking back the putter so for a downhill 30 footer he tried to hit a 20 foot putt and for an uphill 30 footer he tried to hit a 40 foot putt. He admitted sidehill was more difficult to calculate and they gave him trouble. 

... When I was a little kid I delivered newspapers tossing them from my bike while riding it. I enjoyed the obstacles like trees, bushes, furniture, short or long porches and using the right trajectory and speed to get the paper on the porch. Sometimes I had to throw quite early tossing over a little tree and others the tree was too large and had to throw basically backwards once I was past the tree. I never thought throw to x spot or throw backwards say at the edge of the house instead of the porch, I just threw by what felt right. It was not guaranteed to be delivered on the porch by the paper company but I did my best to hit every porch. I felt it was good training to play qb but to be fair I always had a natural ability and one of the reasons I was a good shooter and shortstop where throwing from different angles while on the move would be impossible to do using any system. Granted most of these are reactionary and golf is static which can lead itself to a more calculated approach. 

... If I have not suggested this before, next time you are at a practice green try this little drill. Drop a ball and take a very quick glance at a putt, starting with longer putts and do not give yourself any time to make calculations just a quick glance then close your eyes and attempt the putt. Keep them closed and estimate how close your putt finishes, whether it is short or long and above or below the hole before opening your eyes. Do this for a bunch of different holes, slopes and distances never in the same direction twice. Then start over doing it again but after the first eyes closed putt, use what you felt with your eyes closed and attempt it again with your eyes open but still only taking a glance and giving you no time for any calculations. This drill was very instructive when I taught and I learned many students got better as they did the drill while some had no control over distance at all. To be honest, I had a hard time teaching those students because I did not understand why they could not feel the distance they hit their putts. 

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Hybrids:    :taylormade-small: SIM2 Hybrid 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
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On 6/22/2022 at 8:15 AM, Handy said:

I struggle with my chipping. More often than not I come up short. I might get just on the greens or up to the edge. When I try taking a bigger swing quite often I will send it over the greens. I use a 9 iron because I get the best results with it but as said I cone up short. So any tips on how to play chipping, like ball placement, stance- how far apart feet, best club /iron to use,  club angle - handle leaning toward the target?? I know I probably just have to spend the money and get lessons for chipping but any suggestions for now would be appreciated.

Thanks 

IF you keep coming up short using your 9 iron I would suggest you try your 7 irons and see if that gets you the distance you need.  I use my 7 irons about 80% of the time for chipping but switch between 7 and PW depending on distance to the green and distance to the cup. Try a few clubs and go with what works for the shot you have to make. 

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Posted (edited)

If I remember correctly, Phil had a drill around the green where he chilled holding the club with his lead hand only. It may be useful for shorter shots only, but I practiced like this and noticed I dramatically improved coordination and contact, as well as consistency in making the exact same length backswing each time (ie if you can do this with your weaker lead arm, it becomes easy to completely control the club and have awareness of where the face is with two arms) which dramatically builds confidence on the simple straight back straight through chips.

From there it’s just a matter of finding your distances and executing 

Edited by NJN
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On 6/23/2022 at 2:21 PM, Handy said:

I assume on a Fairway situation the low projectory would be best, like a bump and run?

Let the club do the job, no need to force high low unless major obstacles contours.

You want low and some run out , 8 iron

You want high and little roll, 56 or up.

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On 6/22/2022 at 12:01 PM, MGoBlue100 said:

He's persona non grata right now with a lot of people, but this guy knows a thing or three about chipping and pitching:

 

Phil not on many good lists right now, but this is actually a great video MG! Good post. 
Making sure the head of the club never passes your hands is a great drill and good move from any distance for chipping.  Feel for what club to use is, I think, a personal choice.  I for one use a 60 most often up to 18 paces & SW to about 32-35 paces, sometimes a Gap. From 50 yds, depending on the green and what's in front, I'd even use a 60 degree. PRACTICE! 

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On 6/22/2022 at 11:51 AM, Handy said:

Thanks Golff2much for the details of how you do it. Also thanks cnosil for the link to a video on different ways to low or high. Per that instructions I think I might be putting to much motion and swing into my attempts.

 

I failed to mention in my first post that the course I play most on due to being on a league, has the grass fairly long like 3-4 inches around the greens except for a narrow front approach. So I fight that grass high % of time.

A lot of people try to "help" the ball get into the air, especially chips, or in greenside bunkers. You really have to keep a firm left wrist, and follow through your swing. Backswing dictates how far you will "carry" the ball, to let it hop, and roll out. The type of ball you play can help you with getting the ball to "check up" for you, as 3 piece balls have that extra layer that is designed to give you more backspin on chips and pitches. Of course, you still have to strike the ball properly for this to happen. Work on technique in the videos you were given, and practice, practice, practice...

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Another great Lefty series. I know he's on a lot of $hit lists right now, but he knows his stuff. Watch the first two "The Short Game" videos, and I'll bet your chipping improves immensely. He starts the pitch/chip portion about half-way through the first video.

I didn't read through all the posts, but stay away from a 60 if you have one, until you get the fundamentals down with a 50-54 first. 

 

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On 6/22/2022 at 8:12 AM, Golf2Much said:

I'm not certainly an expert, but I'll share what works for me.  First I see how much green I have to work with.   If the pin is close to the front and I have little green to work with, I like to bump and run the ball onto the green.  My home course has mostly false front greens, so I tend to do this when the pin is forward.  I take a pitching wedge or 9 iron, play the ball in the back of my stance (about the same/a little wider stance as when I putt) and press my hands a little forward.  I try to imagine how far back I would need to pitch the ball if it was all green and add about 25% more to my backswing to compensate for the longer grass.  I try and put about 60-70% of my weight on my forward foot (left for a right hander), take a slow back swing and focus on hitting down on the ball.   I try keep my hands positioned ahead of the ball and bounce the ball one or two times (depending on how much of a false front) in the fringe and let the ball pop up and run.  

If more green is available, I focus on where I want to land the ball and which club will get me to that distance.  The less green I have to work with, the more loft I like to take.  I'll work with anything from my 56 degree sand wedge, 52 degree gap wedge or my pitching wedge.   Taking the same stance, weight on the front foot and a slower/steeper attach on the ball I manage the carry distance by modulating my back swing.  For my pitching wedge, I try and carry the ball about a third of the way to the pin.  For my gap wedge, about half way and with my sand wedge about 60% of the way to the pin.  If I hit it right, the ball with hit, check a little and run out.  For uphill lies to the pin, I try to take one less club to compensate for going up the hill and having it die when it hits the incline.  For downhill lies, I take one less club knowing it will likely run away from me. 

When I'm in a situation where I have to fly the ball to the pin (versus running it up), I always play the ball in front of the stance.  I know with my wedges how far I hit them with full, 3/4 and 1/2 swing lengths.  I get my distance, and will go through my swing routine pulling the club back 1/2 or 3/4 back swing going through the motion slow.  I usually will take one or two more practice swings than I do with my other irons just so I know how far I want to make my back swing and I get the feel of the club.   You want to slow everything down and make a smooth swing.  

When I'm 40-50 yards out with no green to work with and bump and run isn't a good option, I'll pull out my 60 degree wedge, take a full swing and pop the ball up so it lands softly with little run.  

It does take practice to get all of these shots, but for someone like me who is typically short of the green on my approach shots, it's worth investing in consistently making these shots.  Without them, I couldn't score.

What he said......and yeah take some lessons and not just practice but "perfect practice makes perfect", practice with intention, under pressure, concentrating on the technique more than the outcome. It gets worse before it gets better. Godspeed and may the force be with you 🙂

 

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One club or all clubs 7 iron to 60* wedge ,the key, stated here several times, is practice. If I chose one of the two short game greens, I'll take different clubs to try to stay sharp with the shot I'm trying to strike. I play courses that have elevation changes as well as hard, firm greens. One example is a 20 yard chip from a mound next to the green, I chose a low and slow 9 iron aimed 10 yards from the hole, got it to 5 feet and I was practically doing cartwheels I was so pleased with the outcome. Hit 'em close and make the putt!

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Mine is just repetition, Take all your wedges, set a target at 25yds, 35yds and 50yd.  Then take 25 balls at first distance with favorite wedge, get exact back swing and follow thru.  Like my 54° at knee high and waist high follow thru is about 30 yd carry with a roll out. Then do that with every club to know a shot type.  Like I found out that I like my 50° at 35 yd for a lower flying chip shot.

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I try and utilize the same swing mechanics for any shot I am going at less than about 2/3 swing.  Especially on chipping pitching from around 50 yards I want to be able to use my 9 iron through lob wedge.  Narrow stance no wider than just inside my shoulder line, quiet arms ( a little break is ok), quiet wrists and no lower body movement like putting.  Knowing where you stop your backswing helps gauge the distance and replication efforts.  I don’t play the ball anywhere but middle to just forward of middle in my stance.  Playing the ball behind center can lead to traps and delofted contact lowering your trajectory and running over the green.  Especially if you are trying to get more spin on the ball you want to use the intended loft on the club of choice.

B_LinksGolf "Any day golfing is better than a day in the office"

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On 6/30/2022 at 8:23 PM, Handy said:

Some great suggestions TexasFullsend and Freemars on setting up a system and learn on range how each swing alignment with head /chest /waist and with different clubs at those positions play out. 

Agwinup you are right about consistently hitting the ball, but I think now it was because of how my stance and not putting weight on leading foot. Also as what TexasFullsend said I would have a tendency to slow my swing down especially on say 5 - 10 yrd chips being afraid of scalding the ball across the green and having to chip back on from the other side. That usually ended up with a chunk. 

Having your weight on your lead foot should allow you to rotate through the shot more consistently and lead to better contact for sure. But you can put your weight on the lead foot and still chop down on the ball.  This makes consistent contact very hard.

There's a great drill that doesn't require any ball or any skill.  Just put your club on the ground like you're taking your stance. Now move the club so that it contacts the ground for as long as possible.  The club SHOULD be forced to rotate around you.  This is the path you should try to duplicate when you chip. Don't try to pick the ball, but rather try to slide the club along the ground for as long as possible.  The guys at AMG golf do a great job of depicting this. And if you don't know AMG golf YOU SHOULD!!!

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Put the time in on a short game practice area go to 50 yards and fly 3/4 lob wedges in for 20 minutes.  Play it with the club soled and the shaft will naturally lean forward.  Set the club and then move your feet to get the grip in the middle of your hips, that will give you a good pinch of the ball when you hit it.  After 20 minutes you will develop muscle memory.  Then come back and practice it some more.  I am 60+ and that is all I do to warm up that and putt.  After a few sessions you will develop your feel for the distance and it will be easier.

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On 6/22/2022 at 5:21 PM, Shankster said:

I even practice a hybrid chip at 50 yards.  Basically a putt… for when I get to Scotland.

Tried that but could not do it especially now since I do not carry hybrids. But in a similar situation that may require a hybrid I use a 5 iron. Been bumping and running most of my golfing life

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On 6/30/2022 at 10:20 PM, chisag said:

... I often wonder how left brain and right brain tendencies play into this topic. I am not very analytical and much more right brain artistic. Golf is all about feel for me and while I respect analytical types that have methods for distances like a clock or body position system, etc I would be lost. I find so many variables from wind to pin placements to elevation that dictate how I hit a particular shot from inside 100 yds. How strong is the wind blowing when faced with a 20-70 yd shot into a 15? 20? 25 mph wind? Standing behind the shot I might choose a gw, pw, 9i or even an 8i depending on how strong the wind feels to me and whether it is uphill or downhill. This will also dictate how low I hit the ball and with how much energy. And every day is different so the shot I hit yesterday may be different today based on how I feel that particular round. I have no idea how far back I take my backswing but my guess is it is pretty consistent for a similar length in similar conditions. I have a very strong short game and I may mirror a clock method but purely by feel, not by positions. 
 

You are like me play it off of feel and instinct no mechanics involved. Around the practice green I may practice the same shot with 2 or 3 different clubs. Had a guy ask me about that one day as in why and what club I would use on the course? I told him I could not tell him because it was what I felt comfortable with on that day and shot. I told him it paid to have different options

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Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW  Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, NJN said:

If I remember correctly, Phil had a drill around the green where he chilled holding the club with his lead hand only. It may be useful for shorter shots only, but I practiced like this and noticed I dramatically improved coordination and contact, as well as consistency in making the exact same length backswing each time (ie if you can do this with your weaker lead arm, it becomes easy to completely control the club and have awareness of where the face is with two arms) which dramatically builds confidence on the simple straight back straight through chips.

From there it’s just a matter of finding your distances and executing 

A lot of guys practice one handed wedges especially John Daly in his warmups. It is now one  of my warm up drills helps me time up and get the lead hand going through the ball. I do the 1 handed warm up seperately on each hand. I actually hit 5 balls with each one

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW  Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

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Hi Handy: The person who sent you the James Siekman video did you good, I use some of it to. Look up Stan Utley to he has great info he as well learned from Seve B.. His style help me to and yes practice more on short game. I spend 2 hrs on mine when i have a chance.

Kman PGA

New Jersey

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On 6/22/2022 at 12:51 PM, Handy said:

I failed to mention in my first post that the course I play most on due to being on a league, has the grass fairly long like 3-4 inches around the greens except for a narrow front approach. So I fight that grass high % of time.

Maybe a 5 hybrid to get through the rough stuff and get the ball up and out quickly? 

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