Driver Feel

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

So i have been thinking about my setup since hitting the Rogue Max LS yesterday and then i got to thinking. When i hit the Rogue, the ball felt springy and mushy off the face and flew forever with faster ball speeds than my gamer setup. In my gamer setup, i don't really ever feel that. Could that be due to the head, the shaft or a combo of both? I don't really want to go for another fitting after just getting this setup and the end of last year, but i worry that my 3w will continue going just as far as my driver.

[cnosil]

2 minutes ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

So i have been thinking about my setup since hitting the Rogue Max LS yesterday and then i got to thinking. When i hit the Rogue, the ball felt springy and mushy off the face and flew forever with faster ball speeds than my gamer setup. In my gamer setup, i don't really ever feel that. Could that be due to the head, the shaft or a combo of both? I don't really want to go for another fitting after just getting this setup and the end of last year, but i worry that my 3w will continue going just as far as my driver.

IMO, Feel will vary based on thinks like head, grip, and shaft.  It has been talked about that the profile of the shaft influences what is felt, grips will enhance or dampen feel.  Did you just use your shaft when you hit the rogue? We’re they compared side by side?   I don’t know you gapping but you could also back off on the 3 wood or have both if they generate different ball flights.   

[NM01]

Shaft can affect feel thru feedback into the hands and arms. It can also be influenced by sound.

Different heads can influence this thru their design and impact location. shafts can influence this thru their design of where the stiffness is as well as weight and balance point. The shaft along with the head can influence how one swings which will influence how the club is delivered and where face impact is.

A combo that fits one better than another can influence the sound and feel thur better swing and contact resulting in better ball flight.

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

12 minutes ago, cnosil said:

IMO, Feel will vary based on thinks like head, grip, and shaft.  It has been talked about that the profile of the shaft influences what is felt, grips will enhance or dampen feel.  Did you just use your shaft when you hit the rogue? We’re they compared side by side?   I don’t know you gapping but you could also back off on the 3 wood or have both if they generate different ball flights.   

It’s the once thing I forgot to do was swap shafts on each head. TBH I only hit the rogue just so the fitter could help me diagnose. So rogue was stock xs Tensei white and my gamer was epic max ls Ventus black 6x. A part of me thinks the shaft just loaded better for me than the Ventus. Again, I feel silly I didn’t test that shaft in my head. 
 

My 3w was carrying 240-250. The driver 250-265. Best totals for both were 272 for 3w and 299 for driver, which works out here in the summer but winter it will be much more carry dependent. 

[NM01]

9 minutes ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

It’s the once thing I forgot to do was swap shafts on each head. TBH I only hit the rogue just so the fitter could help me diagnose. So rogue was stock xs Tensei white and my gamer was epic max ls Ventus black 6x. A part of me thinks the shaft just loaded better for me than the Ventus. Again, I feel silly I didn’t test that shaft in my head. 
 

My 3w was carrying 240-250. The driver 250-265. Best totals for both were 272 for 3w and 299 for driver, which works out here in the summer but winter it will be much more carry dependent. 

This close of distance shows that your driver setup whether it’s shaft, head and/or the loft or the overall combo doesn’t allow you to deliver the club optimally on a consistent basis. You are probably spinning most shots too much (low on the face) and when you make slightly better contact you don’t get enough spin(high and towards the toe)

It could be the ventus or the flex isn’t a good fit for you. Could be that the ventus paired with that head isn’t good or makes the shaft fit even worse 

Best thing to do is get on a monitor and look at all the numbers. Aoa, launch, spin, apex/peak height, land/descent angle, face angle, face to path. Not contact on the face for each. They will tell you exactly what’s happening and why

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This close of distance shows that your driver setup whether it’s shaft, head and/or the loft or the overall combo doesn’t allow you to deliver the club optimally on a consistent basis. You are probably spinning most shots too much (low on the face) and when you make slightly better contact you don’t get enough spin(high and towards the toe)

It could be the ventus or the flex isn’t a good fit for you. Could be that the ventus paired with that head isn’t good or makes the shaft fit even worse 

I’m thinking it might be the Ventus. When I had the rdx blue 6.0 75g I was getting more carry but would loose it left at times. That was also when my swing was different as I have been taking lessons the last 4 months. 

[NM01]

10 minutes ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

I’m thinking it might be the Ventus. When I had the rdx blue 6.0 75g I was getting more carry but would loose it left at times. That was also when my swing was different as I have been taking lessons the last 4 months. 

Only way to know is to do a side by side comparison with getting the two combos as close to each other in specs and compare the numbers. It could just be the weight, balance of the combo doesn’t fit you but changing the shaft into the other head works. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

8 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Only way to know is to do a side by side comparison with getting the two combos as close to each other in specs and compare the numbers. It could just be the weight, balance of the combo doesn’t fit you but changing the shaft into the other head works. 

I’m looking back at old numbers from early spring  on most effective swings I got 160 ball speed on the prgr. I now have no idea if I stick with Ventus or test something else out. Dang perfectionism.

 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Have a new Tensei white coming in to test out. Will also likely get a Tensei blue just to test as well since I like that in my fairway wood. Hoping for better feel from them. The Ventus was great on dispersion but I don’t think I was able to fully utilize it. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Range epiphany. After my round tested my gamer and a new shaft (‘22 Tensei white 65x) head to head. Forgot my prgr so going by sight. Both were similar. Then I tried bumping up the tee height. Both were launching high and about 2/3 up the next here which is about 200 or so out. Need to get on a TrackMan to confirm but promising session. Dispersion was a little more but ball was flying farther and not dropping out. So the head seems fine (did hit a 275 yard drive with Tensei today but had some find and hard fairways). 
 

The Tensei white definitely had some left in it and I had to move smoother or else I would lose consistency. The Ventus black launched high with new tee height. 
 

Feel felt the same with both shafts but the extra height of the tee really helped. 

[JFish350]

On 7/2/2022 at 9:51 AM, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

Range epiphany. After my round tested my gamer and a new shaft (‘22 Tensei white 65x) head to head. Forgot my prgr so going by sight. Both were similar. Then I tried bumping up the tee height. Both were launching high and about 2/3 up the next here which is about 200 or so out. Need to get on a TrackMan to confirm but promising session. Dispersion was a little more but ball was flying farther and not dropping out. So the head seems fine (did hit a 275 yard drive with Tensei today but had some find and hard fairways). 
 

The Tensei white definitely had some left in it and I had to move smoother or else I would lose consistency. The Ventus black launched high with new tee height. 
 

Feel felt the same with both shafts but the extra height of the tee really helped. 

I am working part time at a one of the indoor Sim places in Tigard. If you're interested I think I can get you in for an hour. I'm not an expert with the sim just yet, but I think we could get you all the info and print it out. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Got to the range today and tested all three shafts. Wasted half a bucket until I realized I needed to loosen my grip pressure (was hitting low on face until then with all three). I think it is going to come down to the blue and the Ventus. Got the best ball speed with the blue and best strike consistency with the black. 
Tensei white

blue

black ventus

[stephenmatt]

Nice results! How did the feel vary in between the shafts? Was there one that you liked more than the others?

Edited July 17, 2022 by stephenmatt

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

45 minutes ago, stephenmatt said:

Nice results! How did the feel vary in between the shafts? Was there one that you liked more than the others?

Thanks. The blue had a little life to it. The black took a little more effort. The white seemed easiest to swing but was poorest results that day for me. Need to test again after getting back into some swing work

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Got to the range with my new swing thought of pausing at the top. Here are the shaft results. Three balls in a row. Prov1. One each of the three shafts. All were hit on the screws. Blue was a straight draw. Black and white were straight. I technically could play either one. My face contact was better with the black than blue today. Didn’t cycle in the white. Wondering if on the blue I’m not choking down as much as what the black plays at. 44.5”. Maybe that’s the delta or I just release a little better with the blue?
 

blue

5 shots with blue prior to this

white

black

 

five shots prior to this last ball

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

I will say, I am trying to back calculate my launch parameters in the flightscope trajectory optimizer and I cannot for the life of me get the numbers I saw. Closest at 160 mph ballspeed is 277 carry with 1200 rpm spin and 20* launch. I am fairly certain that in unrealistic for how i am swinging. ON track man 4 weeks ago i was a launch of ~11* and 2200 RPM spin with my ventus black.

[BMart519]

2 hours ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

I will say, I am trying to back calculate my launch parameters in the flightscope trajectory optimizer and I cannot for the life of me get the numbers I saw. Closest at 160 mph ballspeed is 277 carry with 1200 rpm spin and 20* launch. I am fairly certain that in unrealistic for how i am swinging. ON track man 4 weeks ago i was a launch of ~11* and 2200 RPM spin with my ventus black.

Why are you trying to estimate data from the PRGR? Anything within 2-3 MPH of ball speed is going to be similar carry on that style of monitor. I use the SC200 and get the same thing. There's nothing about the shaft performance you can pull from those numbers. The only thing you should judge is face strike consistency and location and well as ball flight/shape. You need to be a high end unit and using your gamer balls to try and get anything meaningful for the shaft while also trying to compare face contact locations consistently. 

I don't know if PRGR does temperature and altitude compensation. But if the sun was baking the monitor, it could be tricked into using higher temps and carry distances. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

9 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Why are you trying to estimate data from the PRGR? Anything within 2-3 MPH of ball speed is going to be similar carry on that style of monitor. I use the SC200 and get the same thing. There's nothing about the shaft performance you can pull from those numbers. The only thing you should judge is face strike consistency and location and well as ball flight/shape. You need to be a high end unit and using your gamer balls to try and get anything meaningful for the shaft while also trying to compare face contact locations consistently. 

I don't know if PRGR does temperature and altitude compensation. But if the sun was baking the monitor, it could be tricked into using higher temps and carry distances. 

So based on images above what would you roll with? The Ventus despite a slower ball speed? Everything I read the PRGR is pretty close to what TrackMan reports for ball speed +\- 1 mph

[NM01]

1 hour ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

So based on images above what would you roll with? The Ventus despite a slower ball speed? Everything I read the PRGR is pretty close to what TrackMan reports for ball speed +\- 1 mph

Without seeing ball flight or launch monitor numbers I personally couldn’t say what one to use. Picture of face contact only tells where our are hitting it. One can square up a ball on the center of the face but the face could be open at impact and produce push or fade, or it could be an out to in swing and produce a pull, pull hook or pull fade. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

Without seeing ball flight or launch monitor numbers I personally couldn’t say what one to use. Picture of face contact only tells where our are hitting it. One can square up a ball on the center of the face but the face could be open at impact and produce push or fade, or it could be an out to in swing and produce a pull, pull hook or pull fade. 

so very true.. I will say, the ventus is most consistent on dispersion. Mostly straight, miss is a pull or a small fade.  the Tensei Blue i can catch out on the toe or leave the face open and fade it.

[NM01]

1 minute ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

so very true.. I will say, the ventus is most consistent on dispersion. Mostly straight, miss is a pull or a small fade.  the Tensei Blue i can catch out on the toe or leave the face open and fade it.

Sounds like the ventus provides a better feel that allows you to make a more consistent swing all be it with some form of a two way miss that is more swing mechanics related than shaft.

 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

6 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Sounds like the ventus provides a better feel that allows you to make a more consistent swing all be it with some form of a two way miss that is more swing mechanics related than shaft.

 

thats what its looks like to me too but i worry i am not maximizing my distance out of the shaft. i guess i need to keep grinding, work on technique and get faster.

[NM01]

16 minutes ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

thats what its looks like to me too but i worry i am not maximizing my distance out of the shaft. i guess i need to keep grinding, work on technique and get faster.

maximizing distance is more than just the shaft. That’s a ball strike location and swing combination. You have to optimize your launch characteristics to get the most distance out of your swing.

That means getting your smash factor as close to 1.5 as possible, and making sure for your ball speed that launch, spin, peak height, decent angle are in the optimal range. Without numbers from a flightscope, trackman or gc2/quad you don’t know if you are maximized or not and if not what is causing it. You strikes aren’t in an optimal position to get the most out of the swing.

you want to be center to where the yellow dot is with your strikes. Most heads hit spot is 5mm up and 5mm towards the toe.

improving contact is going to improve your distance.

[BMart519]

17 hours ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

So based on images above what would you roll with? The Ventus despite a slower ball speed? Everything I read the PRGR is pretty close to what TrackMan reports for ball speed +\- 1 mph

The one with best dispersion unless you are giving up 30 yards. This will free you up on the course and possibly allow to hit driver on some tighter holes. You only need to average 250 off the tee to play scratch golf. But you need to keep it in play. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

2 hours ago, BMart519 said:

The one with best dispersion unless you are giving up 30 yards. This will free you up on the course and possibly allow to hit driver on some tighter holes. You only need to average 250 off the tee to play scratch golf. But you need to keep it in play. 

Well maybe I just had a bad round with the boom stick but I could not control it with the Ventus today. The range before the round was a nice fade but on the course it was either a pull or fade. Maybe my setup was just off. Only caused a penalty on one hole and only hit one fairway with it (about 270 total). My 3w, one drive was bad but straight and the other was 255 as a tight draw leaving 90 yards to center. 

[NM01]

10 minutes ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

Well maybe I just had a bad round with the boom stick but I could not control it with the Ventus today. The range before the round was a nice fade but on the course it was either a pull or fade. Maybe my setup was just off. Only caused a penalty on one hole and only hit one fairway with it (about 270 total). My 3w, one drive was bad but straight and the other was 255 as a tight draw leaving 90 yards to center. 

The effects of no punishment for bad swings on the range but no so much when it counts.

Two way miss sux and it’s my typical issue and my current swing as pointed out in a recent online lesson is that I know rolling the hands is going to lead to pulls and hooks so my tendency is to hold off and I end up with push/push fade or worst case blocks.

So I wouldn’t quite call it an issue with ventus as it doesn’t appear to be negatively impacting your swing mechanics in the way that the tensei does 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

41 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The effects of no punishment for bad swings on the range but no so much when it counts.

Two way miss sux and it’s my typical issue and my current swing as pointed out in a recent online lesson is that I know rolling the hands is going to lead to pulls and hooks so my tendency is to hold off and I end up with push/push fade or worst case blocks.

So I wouldn’t quite call it an issue with ventus as it doesn’t appear to be negatively impacting your swing mechanics in the way that the tensei does 

I'll keep grinding. Thanks. Just need more course time

[NM01]

16 minutes ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

I'll keep grinding. Thanks. Just need more course time

Welcome to the world of tinkering/self fitting

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

Welcome to the world of tinkering/self fitting

for sure. I think i just need to commit to a setup, and then in 5 years or when my driver falls apart, go for a fitting. I think my game is at a point where I just need to play smarter and i should be able to improve, even if the driver is lacking.

[BMart519]

22 hours ago, Vegan_Golfer_PNW said:

Well maybe I just had a bad round with the boom stick but I could not control it with the Ventus today. The range before the round was a nice fade but on the course it was either a pull or fade. Maybe my setup was just off. Only caused a penalty on one hole and only hit one fairway with it (about 270 total). My 3w, one drive was bad but straight and the other was 255 as a tight draw leaving 90 yards to center. 

If you have all the shafts, you should alternate them on the course and see which does best. Range is one thing, on course is another. Don't get hung up on fairways. Main concerns with tee shots are no penalties and avoiding punch outs or other recovery shots. If you have a clear look at the green and hit it 250+ that was a good tee shot. 

Unless the rough where you play is very penal... But in that case your choice is probably clubbing down to hybrid or driving iron.