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for the longest time I lived by using the body to square the clubface. And would hold off the release of the golf club. When I was on I was really on this way.But as i age the power kept on disappearing from my game. Now to the present .. I have more of a flip release now versus a body pivot with a punch style of golf shot.

Again , This might seem odd.But I truly never knew what a steep transition vs shallow meant until 5 or so years ago.This is after 40 plus years of golfing too I might add.Is it video or technology that broke these terms to the general public ? 
 

for long term players. What did you learn that really blew your mind about the swing? 

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That no 2 people are alike. In golf, there are certain things we do in the swing that are a given, things that must be done in order to hit the ball properly. BUT, we all do these things in our OWN way. Our body types dictate this, and to change your swing from what our bodies want to do naturally takes a lot of practice, and tons of patience. I just want to play for fun, and it is more fun when we play well, but at this late date, I will not be rebuilding my swing to accomodate lower scores. I am not a PGA pro, nor do I have a tour card, so fun it is!

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On 6/25/2022 at 10:09 AM, drb1956 said:

That no 2 people are alike. In golf, there are certain things we do in the swing that are a given, things that must be done in order to hit the ball properly. BUT, we all do these things in our OWN way. Our body types dictate this, and to change your swing from what our bodies want to do naturally takes a lot of practice, and tons of patience. I just want to play for fun, and it is more fun when we play well, but at this late date, I will not be rebuilding my swing to accomodate lower scores. I am not a PGA pro, nor do I have a tour card, so fun it is!

Totally agree. I played my whole life that way. Just started getting into watching YouTube golf videos and reading forum instructions threads. Maybe they is the end of my good playing days doing that ? Haha. I will give this new instructions i learned a real good try. If the results are bad after a few seasons .. than I’m going back to just playing the game 

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I've been playing for more than 50 years, most of them as a single digit handicapper many of them as a sub 5 handicapper as low as a 1 for a period of two plus seasons.  

Most of what I learned early on, I learned from trial and error with just a few lessons sprinkled in.  That was an era when teachers tried to cookie cut people and I had a swing born of baseball, it was effective, it worked but it was not "orthodox."  As I moved into my 40's teaching methods changed, I started taking lessons from a teacher who made tweaks to what I was doing and that's when my play really blossomed.  Ironically too I was able to work very hard on my short game.  I went from being a so so putter and chipper to being that guy whom people never counted out of a hole because I could get up and down from anywhere (not really but they thought that I could so I lived with it.)  In fact my friends still refer to difficult up and downs as Kevin pars.  

 

When I was younger I just assumed that I would loose distance with age.  I didn't realize that I would also loose consistency.  I think a lot of that is mental - I have trouble staying focused at times and do stupid things in my swing or make poor choices that lead to dropped shots - the difference between being a 3 and being a 7 is not all that much, 3 shots a round or one chunk into a hazard and a missed 4 footer.  

 

It's really not so much about the swing but rather about how aging effects it that has been a surprise to me.  

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Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Still on that elusive hunt for a 3 wood that I'm able to hit - I don't know why, I crush the 5 wood and it's really a 4 wood anyway. 

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On 6/24/2022 at 7:59 PM, Goober said:


for the longest time I lived by using the body to square the clubface. And would hold off the release of the golf club. When I was on I was really on this way.But as i age the power kept on disappearing from my game. Now to the present .. I have more of a flip release now versus a body pivot with a punch style of golf shot.

Again , This might seem odd.But I truly never knew what a steep transition vs shallow meant until 5 or so years ago.This is after 40 plus years of golfing too I might add.Is it video or technology that broke these terms to the general public ? 
 

for long term players. What did you learn that really blew your mind about the swing? 

It wasn’t video or technology per se that broke it to golfers. The concept of shallowing has always been there and being able to show what happens in the swing now gives the golfer a better visual, but it’s what’s been taught for a long time, might just not have been called shallowing.
 

the body isn’t what squares the club it’s wrists and shallowing along with proper movement of the body. Those who have an open face at the top of the swing have to work harder to get the club face square compared to those who are more neutral or closed. If they left the club face alone and only used the body to square the face wouldn’t square up until after the ball was gone. 
 

Depending on how you look at flipping it’s actually what happens in the golf swing as the club moves thru the impact zone 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CfXgX2CDKlc/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

what many amateurs are doing and what people think of as flipping is actually and early release of the club this is a symptom of a swing fault typically a steep downswing where the body has to stall. What happens for those who have played for awhile with incorrect sequencing is they find the ability thru compensation to get the club on the ball, whether it’s dumping the trail shoulder, standing up as the hips stall, throw the hands at the ball and any other term you might have heard. When we lack the ability to time all this up is when the big misses come in to play.

As a self taught person it wasn’t until I started taking lesson late in my career did I start to learn about proper sequencing and it wasn’t until I started diving into the swing mechanics more by watching content from several golfers that I started to understand it better and realize that previous coaches were making tweaks to my swing to be more playable rather than trying to change my motor patterns to make the right movements 

 

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What’s funny about this is that it was thought that a closed club face was more difficult to handle when I was young. It was also supposed to be hard on the back. I’ve been working very hard to keep it neutral closed for the past two years. When I do I hit the ball far more consistently 

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Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Still on that elusive hunt for a 3 wood that I'm able to hit - I don't know why, I crush the 5 wood and it's really a 4 wood anyway. 

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19 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It wasn’t video or technology per se that broke it to golfers. The concept of shallowing has always been there and being able to show what happens in the swing now gives the golfer a better visual, but it’s what’s been taught for a long time, might just not have been called shallowing.
 

the body isn’t what squares the club it’s wrists and shallowing along with proper movement of the body. Those who have an open face at the top of the swing have to work harder to get the club face square compared to those who are more neutral or closed. If they left the club face alone and only used the body to square the face wouldn’t square up until after the ball was gone. 
 

Depending on how you look at flipping it’s actually what happens in the golf swing as the club moves thru the impact zone 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CfXgX2CDKlc/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

what many amateurs are doing and what people think of as flipping is actually and early release of the club this is a symptom of a swing fault typically a steep downswing where the body has to stall. What happens for those who have played for awhile with incorrect sequencing is they find the ability thru compensation to get the club on the ball, whether it’s dumping the trail shoulder, standing up as the hips stall, throw the hands at the ball and any other term you might have heard. When we lack the ability to time all this up is when the big misses come in to play.

As a self taught person it wasn’t until I started taking lesson late in my career did I start to learn about proper sequencing and it wasn’t until I started diving into the swing mechanics more by watching content from several golfers that I started to understand it better and realize that previous coaches were making tweaks to my swing to be more playable rather than trying to change my motor patterns to make the right movements 

 

We all have our ways of doing things and I have always been outside the box of conventional thinking. Even though my old man was a teacher I am self taught because me and him did not get along. Early on I developed a rope hook and I attribute that to me swinging fast and hard plus the clubs did not have enough weight and shaft for me. My old man because he was a cheap SOB got me a set of Wilson Patty Berg Irons with aluminum shafts. He was on staff with Wilson at the time. I was about 13 then. By the time I was 14 I had gotten strong quick. With those light clubs I swung fast and hard. A Pro friend of my old man told him what was going on and he was hardheaded. I ended up buying with my own money a set of 66 Spalding Elite 333 custom irons with S-300 black labels. Also ordered from another source a set of Power Bilt Woods with C (stiff) shafts. I ordered them from another source with help from a friend where the old man could not change the order. When I got all of that he got mad and took the Wilsons which I said good riddence. I have always felt that those clubs caused my bad habits. Still even into my 20s I had a tendency to overswing and rope hook it. If I hit a cussed double cross hook it was darn near a left lateral. I taught myself an anti hook swing. If set up either observing or instruments present it will read that my clubface is open at impact. Yes it does read and appear that way but if you look at my clubface in reference to my target you will see it is neutral. Now I do play a trap cut as my natural shot. Back when I was younger I pulled most of my shots on the backswing way past parallel like John Daly amd lots of times laid the club off at the top. But as a natural move I sometimes if needed looped the club to back into my spot. Now I did not always lay off at the top and never knew if I looped it or not. With the driver I always followed theough so violently that the shaft hit me in the back of the head. Now I will admit when I turned 50 or so because of age and weight my backswing shortened some. Now since my accident now 2 1/2 years ago I had to make some changes. I did shorten my backswing think as in Jon Rahm or Tony Funeau. I also narrowed my stance which helps me balance wise and does not put any stress on my back. I rely on my upper body strength and do not have much lower body movement. I picked up a lot of upper body strength during therapy due to not being properly supervised and using my upper body instead of strengthing my core. It came out on my evaluation. In fact it is the basis for a seperate law suit against the therapy people by me and the insurance company. I had to do like 4 extra weeks of closely supervised therapy for back and core strength. Now I do my back exercises at home but I also do upper body exercises. No I do not pound weights but do stuff like hand grippers and 5 lb weights watching TV. I have always figured how to maximize strengths. Now with all of that being said I am not as long as I was even pre accident but pretty darn straight. All joking aside I do not hit a driver but 220 or so anymore every now and then I get sneaky long and get like 230 or so. On my irons I am about 2 clubs shorter I only hit my old blade 9 iron about 105 or so. But I have learned to play pain free and basically plot my way around the course.

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21 hours ago, revkev said:

I've been playing for more than 50 years, most of them as a single digit handicapper many of them as a sub 5 handicapper as low as a 1 for a period of two plus seasons.  

Most of what I learned early on, I learned from trial and error with just a few lessons sprinkled in.  That was an era when teachers tried to cookie cut people and I had a swing born of baseball, it was effective, it worked but it was not "orthodox."  As I moved into my 40's teaching methods changed, I started taking lessons from a teacher who made tweaks to what I was doing and that's when my play really blossomed.  Ironically too I was able to work very hard on my short game.  I went from being a so so putter and chipper to being that guy whom people never counted out of a hole because I could get up and down from anywhere (not really but they thought that I could so I lived with it.)  In fact my friends still refer to difficult up and downs as Kevin pars.  

 

When I was younger I just assumed that I would loose distance with age.  I didn't realize that I would also loose consistency.  I think a lot of that is mental - I have trouble staying focused at times and do stupid things in my swing or make poor choices that lead to dropped shots - the difference between being a 3 and being a 7 is not all that much, 3 shots a round or one chunk into a hazard and a missed 4 footer.  

 

It's really not so much about the swing but rather about how aging effects it that has been a surprise to me.  

You are correct in general. But pre accident and even when I was young I used to lose focus generally but always seemed to concentrate on the get out of jail shots. And as far as up and downs I had the reputation of being able to get up and down out of a trash can. Now after my accident and 2 relapses I had to train myself to play and swing pain free. And trust me I worked the last 8 months on my game harder than ever. back in the day I was a bomb and gouge player hit it who cares go find it hit it again. I knew between my 5 iron wedges and putter I could get out of any can. Even before the accident I was beginning to realize I could not pull off some of the stuff I used to. I have really learned to focus and plot my way around the course because I am no where as long as I used to be even 2 years ago. Also had to put a couple of weapons in the Arsenal on a permanant basis. I had to put the man card up so to speak and deal with how the cards were dealt now for me. But around my course I now have the reputation as being straight off the tee and for the first time in my life hit a lot of GIRs. Even though my body is older and now crippled my brain works better than ever. 

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Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label R-- PW M-85 Macgregor 48* S-400 Sensicore --- SW  Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- LW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Original Reuter Bulls Eye Standard---. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

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On 6/30/2022 at 10:53 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

It wasn’t video or technology per se that broke it to golfers. The concept of shallowing has always been there and being able to show what happens in the swing now gives the golfer a better visual, but it’s what’s been taught for a long time, might just not have been called shallowing.
 

the body isn’t what squares the club it’s wrists and shallowing along with proper movement of the body. Those who have an open face at the top of the swing have to work harder to get the club face square compared to those who are more neutral or closed. If they left the club face alone and only used the body to square the face wouldn’t square up until after the ball was gone. 
 

Depending on how you look at flipping it’s actually what happens in the golf swing as the club moves thru the impact zone 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CfXgX2CDKlc/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

what many amateurs are doing and what people think of as flipping is actually and early release of the club this is a symptom of a swing fault typically a steep downswing where the body has to stall. What happens for those who have played for awhile with incorrect sequencing is they find the ability thru compensation to get the club on the ball, whether it’s dumping the trail shoulder, standing up as the hips stall, throw the hands at the ball and any other term you might have heard. When we lack the ability to time all this up is when the big misses come in to play.

As a self taught person it wasn’t until I started taking lesson late in my career did I start to learn about proper sequencing and it wasn’t until I started diving into the swing mechanics more by watching content from several golfers that I started to understand it better and realize that previous coaches were making tweaks to my swing to be more playable rather than trying to change my motor patterns to make the right movements 

 

Well said young man. Well said 

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On 6/30/2022 at 9:36 AM, revkev said:

I've been playing for more than 50 years, most of them as a single digit handicapper many of them as a sub 5 handicapper as low as a 1 for a period of two plus seasons.  

Most of what I learned early on, I learned from trial and error with just a few lessons sprinkled in.  That was an era when teachers tried to cookie cut people and I had a swing born of baseball, it was effective, it worked but it was not "orthodox."  As I moved into my 40's teaching methods changed, I started taking lessons from a teacher who made tweaks to what I was doing and that's when my play really blossomed.  Ironically too I was able to work very hard on my short game.  I went from being a so so putter and chipper to being that guy whom people never counted out of a hole because I could get up and down from anywhere (not really but they thought that I could so I lived with it.)  In fact my friends still refer to difficult up and downs as Kevin pars.  

 

When I was younger I just assumed that I would loose distance with age.  I didn't realize that I would also loose consistency.  I think a lot of that is mental - I have trouble staying focused at times and do stupid things in my swing or make poor choices that lead to dropped shots - the difference between being a 3 and being a 7 is not all that much, 3 shots a round or one chunk into a hazard and a missed 4 footer.  

 

It's really not so much about the swing but rather about how aging effects it that has been a surprise to me.  

Oh, so true! I'm 78. Just went to double digit handicap last year. Finally moved up to red tees on 4 par fours that I had trouble reaching and greatly increased my enjoyment.

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I'm 41 and been playing for 34 years.  

There are three things that I've learned from A-Ha moments that are relevant to your question.

#1) no matter how much you want, modeling your swing to a certain player will not make you a better golfer.

#2) the sooner you can use video and photos to learn about your swing, the sooner you can dial in your goals.

#3) using video without proper instruction is useless.

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What I have learned after 40+ years of golf is effortless power comes from less aggression. I now swing slower (smoother) with better tempo with better results and a better feeling back!

I have lost distance but not enough for the younger guys to let me move up to the senior tee’s 🙂 

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... I probably learned this faster because of teaching, but I play enough and would have figured it out sooner or later. Most golfers strive to get better or never change anything and expect different results. Hitting one straight drive when every other is a slice doesn't make the straight drive your swing shape, it is an anomaly because your swing dictates a slice. 

... But the latter is a huge problem for those looking to improve if their focus is on major changes. I have found most golfers have a natural swing and all of them have flaws, some a lot and others not too bad. So the goal should always be: do what you are already doing, just do it better. If you have a flippy swing that is hand dominant don't try and change to a more body rotation swing and take your hands out of it. Work on becoming less flippy but still using your hands. 

... I had several students through the years that I tore apart their swing and put it back together again after they stated that was their goal, were willing to put in the practice and were undaunted by it taking up to 2 years to accomplish. But they were the exception and most of my students I told from the first lesson "I am going to help you do what you already do, just get better at it". But having a swing that is Ernie Els like and changing to a Will Zalatoris swing is just asking for a complete breakdown and constant frustration. I will always love Arnies advice of Swing Your Swing. 

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Driver:     :cobra-small: LTDx 10.5* ... AD-IZ 6SR
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/16.5/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R
                 :taylormade-small: DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
                  :taylormade-small: Sim Hybrid 22* ... Diamana Ltd 75R
Irons:        :cobra-small: 4-Pw MIM Tour ... Steelfiber i95R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 50*/MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
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... I forgot to add almost all of us fall prey to "improving" and often convincing ourselves we are not changing our swing, just defining an aspect of it. After watching Rory just hammer drive after drive and hear him say he has been working on keeping connected so focusing on keeping his biceps connected to his chest and we think "Yea, I sometimes don't sync up as well as I would like, so let me try that next round!" And then spend the next week trying to get rid of what worked for Rory because it sure didn't work for us and vow never to fall prey to making changes because someone whose swing we admire mentioned it. But somewhere down the line, especially if going through a rough patch, we do it again. 

... I think all swings have extremes, as an example: swinging the arms too much or using the body too much and there is a pendulum to that process. As our arms take over we begin using our body more and the pendulum eventually swings to using the body too much and we begin using our arms more. It is that middle of the pendulum where everything works together that we play our best golf. The golf swing is just sooooo difficult to maintain with so many moving parts at a high speed and we should really enjoy the times things seem to be working well and just work through the times on either side of the pendulum. That said, I know there are those that always seem to struggle and without the help of a profession are probably doomed to never find the center of the pendulum. 

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Driver:     :cobra-small: LTDx 10.5* ... AD-IZ 6SR
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/16.5/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R
                 :taylormade-small: DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
                  :taylormade-small: Sim Hybrid 22* ... Diamana Ltd 75R
Irons:        :cobra-small: 4-Pw MIM Tour ... Steelfiber i95R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 50*/MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :cleveland-small: Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:           :taylormade-small: Maxfli Tour '22/TP5x '21

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On 7/5/2022 at 6:03 PM, bens197 said:

I'm 41 and been playing for 34 years.  

There are three things that I've learned from A-Ha moments that are relevant to your question.

#1) no matter how much you want, modeling your swing to a certain player will not make you a better golfer.

#2) the sooner you can use video and photos to learn about your swing, the sooner you can dial in your goals.

#3) using video without proper instruction is useless.

Good information and correct---- Swing your own swing

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Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label R-- PW M-85 Macgregor 48* S-400 Sensicore --- SW  Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- LW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Original Reuter Bulls Eye Standard---. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

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