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Flo Spine effects....


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So I've done Frequency Flo and Spine my Bassara Hl stiff graphite shaft, frequency is 259 flo and spine are within 1/16th inch of each other. I setup the adapter with the "higher" mark on the adapter set on the bottom of the shaft so it lines up with the dot and the loft number, I actually got this back to front as I've found that setup at the lower mark on the adapter was working well for me and when my friend did the flo spine I forgot which was the correct position, BUT it seems my error has worked out well for me so much so I've driven the ball 240+ metres with a straight-ish ball flight. I know there's lots who don't believe this has any real benefit but I'm not sure how else to explain the increase of 40metres, as it's winter here and the ground is soft it's mostly carry. What do you think?

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7 hours ago, Bang60 said:

So I've done Frequency Flo and Spine my Bassara Hl stiff graphite shaft, frequency is 259 flo and spine are within 1/16th inch of each other. I setup the adapter with the "higher" mark on the adapter set on the bottom of the shaft so it lines up with the dot and the loft number, I actually got this back to front as I've found that setup at the lower mark on the adapter was working well for me and when my friend did the flo spine I forgot which was the correct position, BUT it seems my error has worked out well for me so much so I've driven the ball 240+ metres with a straight-ish ball flight. I know there's lots who don't believe this has any real benefit but I'm not sure how else to explain the increase of 40metres, as it's winter here and the ground is soft it's mostly carry. What do you think?

Didn’t I read that you have also been taking lessons and they you are starting/doing speed training?  Maybe you swing is just getting better?

your post is confusing to me,  is the club adapter in the same position and you just reoriented the shaft to be spine/flo’d?  

spine/flo/puring is always an interesting topic.  Some say it is necessary, some say it isn’t. I’ve seen tests that show it works and tests that show it doesn’t.  One day I hope to test something side my side that has been set up as optimal and non optimal to do my own assessment.   

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8 hours ago, cnosil said:

Didn’t I read that you have also been taking lessons and they you are starting/doing speed training?  Maybe you swing is just getting better?

your post is confusing to me,  is the club adapter in the same position and you just reoriented the shaft to be spine/flo’d?  

spine/flo/puring is always an interesting topic.  Some say it is necessary, some say it isn’t. I’ve seen tests that show it works and tests that show it doesn’t.  One day I hope to test something side my side that has been set up as optimal and non optimal to do my own assessment.   

Yeah I'm confused and I set it up lol, I had 3-4 lessons 4-5 months back and I've been looking at speed training systems but not bought them as yet because I have a Rapsodo launch monitor, I've decided to try a 3 iron weighted at 120, and 160 grams and try that system as I've seen a long drive champion on utube using it and he's getting club head speed of 155mph. I'm going to try it with hitting a ball and see if if I get faster, I can't afford to buy another toy for golf or wifey will not be happy lol..

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57 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

Yeah I'm confused and I set it up lol, I had 3-4 lessons 4-5 months back and I've been looking at speed training systems but not bought them as yet because I have a Rapsodo launch monitor, I've decided to try a 3 iron weighted at 120, and 160 grams and try that system as I've seen a long drive champion on utube using it and he's getting club head speed of 155mph. I'm going to try it with hitting a ball and see if if I get faster, I can't afford to buy another toy for golf or wifey will not be happy lol..

My point was you have done several things beyond the club adjustment so there really isn't a way to determine exactly why you are hitting the ball farther.  

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3 hours ago, cnosil said:

My point was you have done several things beyond the club adjustment so there really isn't a way to determine exactly why you are hitting the ball farther.  

Yeah about what I'm thinking, could be this could be that. Just praying I keep going fwd, appreciate the feedback...

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Ahhh missed 3 days before my next hit and dropped off distance, so I need to hit daily so the golf muscles are working much better hmmmm..

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Quoting someone from wrx who is a lot smarter than me and has great fitting and equipment knowledge. His subjective comments below are what I see more of from those who have been around for awhile. Seems to be more anecdotal evidence/studies than anything else

He also posted some links

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines4.php

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines4.php

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines5.php

 

I think the concept of spine alignment is like advocating putting a band-aid on a severed limb.   If one thinks that the asymmetry of the shaft is bad enough that changing the alignment actually changes the performance, then you should throw away the shaft.

 

1) The shaft doesn't bend on one axis so no one single axis has been found to be any more important than any other axis.  And that's true with respect to both the performance of the club and the feel from the club.   Both the weak and strong axis will always play a fairly equal part in the swing no matter how you align it.

 

2) Changing the alignment only changes the stiffness very slightly for different parts of the swing and there is no ideal or optimal stiffness.   When it comes to the influence of the shaft on the results, stiffer isn't always better when the human factor is accounted for

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9 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Quoting someone from wrx who is a lot smarter than me and has great fitting and equipment knowledge. His subjective comments below are what I see more of from those who have been around for awhile. Seems to be more anecdotal evidence/studies than anything else

He also posted some links

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines4.php

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines4.php

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines5.php

 

I think the concept of spine alignment is like advocating putting a band-aid on a severed limb.   If one thinks that the asymmetry of the shaft is bad enough that changing the alignment actually changes the performance, then you should throw away the shaft.

 

1) The shaft doesn't bend on one axis so no one single axis has been found to be any more important than any other axis.  And that's true with respect to both the performance of the club and the feel from the club.   Both the weak and strong axis will always play a fairly equal part in the swing no matter how you align it.

 

2) Changing the alignment only changes the stiffness very slightly for different parts of the swing and there is no ideal or optimal stiffness.   When it comes to the influence of the shaft on the results, stiffer isn't always better when the human factor is accounted for

TXG did a video on it as well - small test, but the player actually hit the non-pured shaft "better"

Dr Sasho Mackenzie did a study on this with multiple golfers of all handicap levels and determined there is no performance gain from spine/floing the shaft.  In fact, the better numbers were generated when the spine was positioned 45* rather than facing the target. But even then, the data was hardly statistically significant.

Waste of time and money, but if if makes you feel better about standing over a shot, then go for it.  Definitely could be some placebo effect

 

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8 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Quoting someone from wrx who is a lot smarter than me and has great fitting and equipment knowledge. His subjective comments below are what I see more of from those who have been around for awhile. Seems to be more anecdotal evidence/studies than anything else

He also posted some links

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines4.php

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines4.php

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/allAboutSpines5.php

 

I think the concept of spine alignment is like advocating putting a band-aid on a severed limb.   If one thinks that the asymmetry of the shaft is bad enough that changing the alignment actually changes the performance, then you should throw away the shaft.

 

1) The shaft doesn't bend on one axis so no one single axis has been found to be any more important than any other axis.  And that's true with respect to both the performance of the club and the feel from the club.   Both the weak and strong axis will always play a fairly equal part in the swing no matter how you align it.

 

2) Changing the alignment only changes the stiffness very slightly for different parts of the swing and there is no ideal or optimal stiffness.   When it comes to the influence of the shaft on the results, stiffer isn't always better when the human factor is accounted for

I wonder if you actually read the first link you included from Tutleman, your "band-aid" theory would suggest not. But whatever...

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9 hours ago, jlukes said:

TXG did a video on it as well - small test, but the player actually hit the non-pured shaft "better"

Dr Sasho Mackenzie did a study on this with multiple golfers of all handicap levels and determined there is no performance gain from spine/floing the shaft.  In fact, the better numbers were generated when the spine was positioned 45* rather than facing the target. But even then, the data was hardly statistically significant.

Waste of time and money, but if if makes you feel better about standing over a shot, then go for it.  Definitely could be some placebo effect

 

... The VP of Engineering at Aldila, the designer of the original NV put a spine mark on them originally but after experimented with flo and spining on all Aldila's shafts found zero performance benefits. I loved his explanation of flo saying every shaft they tested had a 100% flat line on the first pass. Yes, some began to wobble on the subsequent passes but you only swing a shaft once, so what it does after that is irreverent. 

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I was always a skeptic.  I remember playing at a tournament in Miami, FL in 2005 and a Pure rep was on site selling his technology.  I kindly declined as I just didn't think it was relevant for me or my game.

Fast forward to today, the quality of products is far better than the Dynamic Gold shafts I played back then and the evidence in support of why it's not necessary has been clearly laid out above.

I was a little surprised to hear last month when I was at CC that the pured shaft is part of the process.  What I ended up with is an LAGolf shaft that has a logo that is almost exactly facing down at address....exactly as intended...

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2 hours ago, Bang60 said:

I wonder if you actually read the first link you included from Tutleman, your "band-aid" theory would suggest not. But whatever...

You obviously didn’t read what i wrote. The band aid theory is from a guy on wrx who was giving his subjective  opinion based on his knowledge and experience. 
 

While i didn’t dive into each of the links, I glanced thru them and it’s more anecdotal than hard facts that it’s worthwhile. You have also missed the other posts that several other experiments have been done including one by highly respected expert Sasho Mackenzie that found no improvement in spining a shaft as well as video showing the same. Theres no hard evidence that it does or doesn’t work.

But if you are curious here’s links to two more posts from the same guy I quoted that goes deeper into why it’s probably not beneficial.

As others have said in here and many a builders it’s not going to do anything. But if if works for you great, I personally have no desire to have it done and based on my face to face conversation with shaft design experts also see no reason for it to be done

https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1887853-spine-align/?do=findComment&comment=24320530
 

https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1887853-spine-align/?do=findComment&comment=24321430

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  • 3 weeks later...

Played 18 today and using a shaft that shouldn't suit me, it's been flo'd etc but I've not played it before because it's Tensei Xstiff. I bought a SIM 9deg because it was cheap and the shaft was attached, I've been using a few different shafts but not successful so used it today as an experiment. My dispersion was heaps better so much so it's my gamer now, yes I'm stronger with my exercise program I've been on that I setup myself. I started using the Dr Kwon speed program as inspiration, I taped 5 1metre lengths of rope together and training with that twice a week. I've really enjoyed all the chat a on flo etc, thanks for your input Guys......

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