Insane Pine Cone ruling?

[chisag]

... @DaveP043 A guy I played with yesterday said he almost had a ruling go against him in a tournament and found it difficult to believe but anything is possible when it comes to the rules. Situation was there was a pine cone near his ball and hit hit it with a full swing toward the green. His opponent called an official and claimed he had taken his stance, executed a practice shot and should incur a penalty. The official said if he took a stance and addressed the pine cone with the intention of a practice swing with the resistance of an object like a pine cone to judge how much speed to use for his shot, it would be a penalty. But the other player in his 3 some confirmed he didn't take a stance and just leaned in and smacked it out of his way, so no penalty. Could the official be correct about hitting a pine cone? 

[bens197]

This sounds like the kinda guy who would complain to a pizza shop if they delivered him his order of one dozen wings and he found 14 in the box.  

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, chisag said:

... @DaveP043 A guy I played with yesterday said he had a ruling go against him in a tournament and found it difficult to believe but anything is possible when it comes to the rules. Situation was there was a pine cone near his ball and hit hit it with a full swing toward the green. His opponent called an official and claimed he had taken his stance, executed a practice shot and should incur a penalty. The official said if he took a stance and addressed the pine cone with the intention of a practice swing with the resistance of an object like a pine cone to judge how much speed to use for his shot, it would be a penalty. But the other player in his 3 some confirmed he didn't take a stance and just leaned in and smacked it out of his way, so no penalty. Could the official be correct about hitting a pine cone? 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rule-5-interpretations.html

5.5 Practising During Round or While Play Is Stopped

 

5.5a/1 – Practice Stroke with Ball of Similar Size to Conforming Ball is Breach

A “practice stroke ” under Rule 5.5a covers not only hitting a conforming ball with a club but hitting any other type of ball that is similar in size to a golf ball, such as a plastic practice ball.

Striking a tee or natural object with a club (such as a stone or a pine cone) is not a practice stroke.

 

[chisag]

2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Striking a tee or natural object with a club (such as a stone or a pine cone) is not a practice stroke.

 

... Seems like common sense right? The problem was in the interpretation that he took a stance like he was hitting a real shot, looked at his target and took a full swing to "judge his swing speed in anticipation of his real shot using an object as an aid". Now as Bens already said, the guy complaining was an a$$hat but what got my attention was the official saying if the "intention" was to take a swing as a rehearsal for his actual shot using an object as an aid, it would be a penalty. Again, both the other players said this was not the case so moot point but with so many rules head scratchers I wanted to see if there was any validity to "intention" the official mentioned. Thanks for the reply!

[cnosil]

16 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Seems like common sense right? The problem was in the interpretation that he took a stance like he was hitting a real shot, looked at his target and took a full swing to "judge his swing speed in anticipation of his real shot using an object as an aid". Now as Bens already said, the guy complaining was an a$$hat but what got my attention was the official saying if the "intention" was to take a swing as a rehearsal for his actual shot using an object as an aid, it would be a penalty. Again, both the other players said this was not the case so moot point but with so many rules head scratchers I wanted to see if there was any validity to "intention" the official mentioned. Thanks for the reply!

As the rules state,  intention for this doesn't even seem to be considered;  hitting a pine cone isn't considered practice or a practice stroke and the pine cone is specifically mentioned in the rule interpretation.   It will be interesting to hear @DaveP043 weigh in.  

 

[DaveP043]

14 hours ago, cnosil said:

As the rules state,  intention for this doesn't even seem to be considered;  hitting a pine cone isn't considered practice or a practice stroke and the pine cone is specifically mentioned in the rule interpretation.   It will be interesting to hear @DaveP043 weigh in.  

I don't need to say anything, the Interpretation that @cnosil quoted makes it perfectly clear.  Intent doesn't matter, taking a full stance and real swing don't matter, striking a pine cone with a club is NOT a practice stroke.  This is the place tor remind everyone to Download the Rules of Golf app onto your phone, and learn how to use it.  Its hard for me to imagine a semi-competent Official who would read that Interpretation and still rule that a practice swing had been made.

Edited July 11, 2022 by DaveP043

[chisag]

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

This is the place tor remind everyone to Download the Rules of Golf app onto your phone, and learn how to use it. 

 

... Why? We have you here. 

[DaveP043]

13 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Why? We have you here. 

Yeah, but you don't have me on the golf course with you.  

[cnosil]

10 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Yeah, but you don't have me on the golf course with you.  

Can we just get your phone number

[chisag]

6 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Yeah, but you don't have me on the golf course with you.  

 

... I have a current rule book in my bag for use on the course. In the comfort of my home, I have you and much more interested in the minutia of the rules than I. 

[JohnSmalls]

11 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I have a current rule book in my bag for use on the course. In the comfort of my home, I have you and much more interested in the minutia of the rules than I. 

I would love to see the launch angle of the book that caused you to put a bandaid with it

[DaveP043]

29 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Can we just get your phone number

908-326-1850

That's the direct number to the USGA Rules group.

[chisag]

34 minutes ago, JohnSmalls said:

I would love to see the launch angle of the book that caused you to put a bandaid with it

 

... Well force of habit putting my essentials in a plastic bag when the only chance it all has of getting wet is if I ran my ZIP through some sprinklers.

[cnosil]

1 minute ago, chisag said:

 

... Well force of habit putting my essentials in a plastic bag when the only chance it all has of getting wet is if I ran my ZIP through some sprinklers.

I think you have reported/experienced other ways of getting your equipment wet.

[JohnSmalls]

41 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I think you have reported/experienced other ways of getting your equipment wet.

@chisag looks like @cnosil is keeping receipts!

[GaDawg]

5 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Why? We have you here. 

And Dave does a darn good job too. I appreciate all of his rulings.

[fixyurdivot]

On 7/10/2022 at 3:33 PM, bens197 said:

This sounds like the kinda guy who would complain to a pizza shop if they delivered him his order of one dozen wings and he found 14 in the box.  

Can't speak for others but I find some pine cones (not all) to be excellent practice balls - much better than broken tees or chucks of sod.