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I posted in general section with no responses and found this topic area.

 

I bought 70s vintage muscleback iron heads. No shaft. Purely sentimental decision.

What would be a good way to get fitted and choose a modern shaft ? I contacted two name brand commercial club fitters for shaft replacing and both only do modern heads.

5 iron head weighs about 18g more than modern 5i.  Can I add lead tape to a modern head SAME loft to match weight and loft as starting point. I realize all sorts of cg based issues arise.

Looking for good fit (better than TTDG300 default), not perfect set up comparing 1000 shaft choices. When I owned clubs 40 years ago, I had accles pollock stiff shafts. 

Thanks

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either find someone who will do the work or do it yourself 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I believe there are  adapters for irons that would allow you to more easily swap out a few shafts to compare performance.  Maybe @McGolf would know more about this?

Modern Bag: :Sub70:  849 Pro 9*, Accra Tour Z M5 Flex;   :titelist-small:  915F 3w, Diamana S+ 70 S flex;  Snake Eyes 15*, & 23* Hybrids; :mizuno-small: JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0;  :Sub70: Raw 50*, Nippon Tour 120 X; :vokey-small: SM9 54* / 10* / S, Wedge Flex ;  :cleveland-small: Tour Action 57*, PX LZ 6.5;   :ping-small: Ancient Anser or Heppler Fetch (depends on the week);  Ball - :Snell: MTB-Black; Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: H2NO 

Shot Scope H4, MG600 Rangefinder

Classic Bag:  Driver - :wilson_staff_small: Persimmon; 3w - :Hogan: Speed Slot; 5w - :wilson_staff_small: Tour Block; 3 - pw - :wilson_staff_small: Dynapower; sw - Ram Tom Watson;  putter - bullseye standard or flange.

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4 hours ago, TitleistMike said:

I posted in general section with no responses and found this topic area.

 

I bought 70s vintage muscleback iron heads. No shaft. Purely sentimental decision.

What would be a good way to get fitted and choose a modern shaft ? I contacted two name brand commercial club fitters for shaft replacing and both only do modern heads.

5 iron head weighs about 18g more than modern 5i.  Can I add lead tape to a modern head SAME loft to match weight and loft as starting point. I realize all sorts of cg based issues arise.

Looking for good fit (better than TTDG300 default), not perfect set up comparing 1000 shaft choices. When I owned clubs 40 years ago, I had accles pollock stiff shafts. 

Thanks

I'm not sure I completely understand your goal.  Are you trying to end up with a current 5i and your retro 5i that are the same exact length and swingweight or ???

PXG 0211  12*  Paderson Kinetixx A flex

PXG 0211 5 and 7 Woods  Paderson Kinetixx A Flex

PXG 0211 5 and 5 Hybrids  MMT A Flex

Cobra 7 Hybrid  A Flex

PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

Cleveland CBX 54/12

Cobra Vintage Nova 33"

 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Bobbers said:

I'm not sure I completely understand your goal.  Are you trying to end up with a current 5i and your retro 5i that are the same exact length and swingweight or ???

My goal is pick shafts that best suit  my swing and loft headweight of vintage irons.

The available references for a shaft fitting are modern heads. Should I modify headweight of a modern 27 degree to same as vintage 27 degree and evaluate shafts using modern head same weight same loft.  The number bottom of iron doesn't matter.

Yes or no.

Edited by TitleistMike
Clarify shaft fitting modern heads
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10 hours ago, TitleistMike said:

My goal is pick shafts that best suit  my swing and loft headweight of vintage irons.

The available references are modern heads. Should I modify headweight of a modern 27 degree to same as vintage 27 degree and evaluate shafts using modern head same weight same loft.  The number bottom of iron doesn't matter.

Yes or no.

If I understand correctly what you're attempting then this above would be the way to go if you do it, or someone else.  Vintage irons generally had heavier heads, longer sockets, weaker lofts, and flatter lies.

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:macgregor-small:  :benhogan-small: :cobra-small:

 

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2 hours ago, MacTourney said:

If I understand correctly what you're attempting then this above would be the way to go if you do it, or someone else.  Vintage irons generally had heavier heads, longer sockets, weaker lofts, and flatter lies.

Thanks. Needed some affirmation before I visit store for shaft fitting install.  Two name brand club fitters already said no, we can't help pickna shaft with a vintage head.

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5 hours ago, TitleistMike said:

Thanks. Needed some affirmation before I visit store for shaft fitting install.  Two name brand club fitters already said no, we can't help pickna shaft with a vintage head.

That statement causes me to wonder why they said that.  As you mentioned earlier, the Dynamic Gold shafts were certainly available back then as they are now.  What's the hosel diameter of you vintage clubheads?  Are they .370 parallel or .355 tapered?

Club standard lengths were typically a bit shorter 40 years ago so to get a "comparable" club to what you play now (what DO  you play now for irons?) you'd be building a shorter club.   If you wanted a length equal to the modern standard you could consider a somewhat heavier grip or use a shaft counterweight to get an equivalent swingweight.

 

PXG 0211  12*  Paderson Kinetixx A flex

PXG 0211 5 and 7 Woods  Paderson Kinetixx A Flex

PXG 0211 5 and 5 Hybrids  MMT A Flex

Cobra 7 Hybrid  A Flex

PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

Cleveland CBX 54/12

Cobra Vintage Nova 33"

 

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On 7/16/2022 at 5:08 PM, TitleistMike said:

I posted in general section with no responses and found this topic area.

 

I bought 70s vintage muscleback iron heads. No shaft. Purely sentimental decision.

What would be a good way to get fitted and choose a modern shaft ? I contacted two name brand commercial club fitters for shaft replacing and both only do modern heads.

5 iron head weighs about 18g more than modern 5i.  Can I add lead tape to a modern head SAME loft to match weight and loft as starting point. I realize all sorts of cg based issues arise.

Looking for good fit (better than TTDG300 default), not perfect set up comparing 1000 shaft choices. When I owned clubs 40 years ago, I had accles pollock stiff shafts. 

Thanks

70 muscle backs have massive hosels in comparison to those used today moving the COG towards the heel. this can be seen on alot of the best 70s golfers where they found the sweet spot and just hit it in the location. If memory serves the irons were also a 1/2" short than today's standards as well.  Hence the extra weight. YES DGs were the choice only becasue there wasn't much else.

To find a shaft that will make them play like a model isnt going to happen. becasue they are not modern. However, you can make educated selections on shafts and build to a specification. those dont change (specifications) if you are in the 70s or 2000s. Over coming a heavy head is difficult, adding weight to the butt section will make the SW come down but you just added a bunch of additional weight for the sake of SW.  I would suggest a lighter version of the DGs or KBS or Nippons of the same category you prefer. Meaning, if you like or play DGs a DG 105 or KBS tour 105 or modus 105 in the same flex can help. I know they are not the same just throwing out there similar models and lighter weights.

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Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg ACCRA tour Z GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed

Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers

Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce

Putter - 33" 3 deg loft 70 lie, lrg slight line slightly toe hang

Ball - truvis

Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD.

HC - LH but 85 is a good number, playing in Ohio.

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3 hours ago, Bobbers said:

That statement causes me to wonder why they said that.  As you mentioned earlier, the Dynamic Gold shafts were certainly available back then as they are now.  What's the hosel diameter of you vintage clubheads?  Are they .370 parallel or .355 tapered?

Club standard lengths were typically a bit shorter 40 years ago so to get a "comparable" club to what you play now (what DO  you play now for irons?) you'd be building a shorter club.   If you wanted a length equal to the modern standard you could consider a somewhat heavier grip or use a shaft counterweight to get an equivalent swingweight.

 

I play titleist 704cb with dg300. Sub 100 swing speed as I've aged.

I believe they are 370 straight. Will leave it to shaft fitter to help there.

I am NOT trying to recreate the old clubs. I am not 25 years old with 110 swing speed.. I am trying to figure out technique or process to find the best modern shaft for my 90-95 swing to make the clubs as playable as possible.

It would seem best path forward for finding a suitable shaft is get modern head, same loft, and add weight to match vintage head weight and try different shafts on set up.  Ive never done iron or shaft fitting so i am learning as i go.

Otherwise, anything I do is a blind search

 

 

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I'm about to hit 72 so I understand decreasing swing speed all too well.

I, personally, have gone to graphite shafts throughout my bag with no regrets.  The added benefit being a much greater range of choices relative to performance characteristics.  Easier on my joints/muscles, the lighter weight helps with swing speed.  etc.

But that's just me.

PXG 0211  12*  Paderson Kinetixx A flex

PXG 0211 5 and 7 Woods  Paderson Kinetixx A Flex

PXG 0211 5 and 5 Hybrids  MMT A Flex

Cobra 7 Hybrid  A Flex

PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

Cleveland CBX 54/12

Cobra Vintage Nova 33"

 

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On 7/17/2022 at 5:16 PM, McGolf said:

70 muscle backs have massive hosels in comparison to those used today moving the COG towards the heel. this can be seen on alot of the best 70s golfers where they found the sweet spot and just hit it in the location. If memory serves the irons were also a 1/2" short than today's standards as well.  Hence the extra weight. YES DGs were the choice only becasue there wasn't much else.

To find a shaft that will make them play like a model isnt going to happen. becasue they are not modern. However, you can make educated selections on shafts and build to a specification. those dont change (specifications) if you are in the 70s or 2000s. Over coming a heavy head is difficult, adding weight to the butt section will make the SW come down but you just added a bunch of additional weight for the sake of SW.  I would suggest a lighter version of the DGs or KBS or Nippons of the same category you prefer. Meaning, if you like or play DGs a DG 105 or KBS tour 105 or modus 105 in the same flex can help. I know they are not the same just throwing out there similar models and lighter weights.

It's awesome that we have guys like Jim on the forum to help us out 👍.

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:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

 

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While not vintage, my 2002 MacGregor Tourney VIP 1025M irons are great looking clubs and still play beautifully.  I bought them used in our local golf shop because they were purty, and played them for a year with their DG S300 shafts... not very well I might add.  Off to the garage they went, waiting for me to improve from an 18 hcp.  

IMG_0578.jpeg.9ce940380c82156f447264f3d2fbc9d9.jpeg

Fast forward to last year... I had playing a set of SGI Bridgestone JGR Forged Hybrid irons with the Nippon Zelos 8 regular flex shaft for several years.  Loved the feel of them and the lightweight steel shaft seemed to fit my game, although I seriously thought about graphite shafts at the time.  So, why couldn't I put the Nippon shafts in the MacGregors?  I did.  I worried about the SW, but with my midsize Pure grips they all came out at D0, which is just fine for me.  I've shot some of my best scores with these.

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

While not vintage, my 2002 MacGregor Tourney VIP 1025M irons are great looking clubs and still play beautifully.  I bought them used in our local golf shop because they were purty, and played them for a year with their DG S300 shafts... not very well I might add.  Off to the garage they went, waiting for me to improve from an 18 hcp.  

IMG_0578.jpeg.9ce940380c82156f447264f3d2fbc9d9.jpeg

Fast forward to last year... I had playing a set of SGI Bridgestone JGR Forged Hybrid irons with the Nippon Zelos 8 regular flex shaft for several years.  Loved the feel of them and the lightweight steel shaft seemed to fit my game, although I seriously thought about graphite shafts at the time.  So, why couldn't I put the Nippon shafts in the MacGregors?  I did.  I worried about the SW, but with my midsize Pure grips they all came out at D0, which is just fine for me.  I've shot some of my best scores with these.

Nice indeed. Okay, now I'm curious... what does "V-Foil" stand for?

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:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Nice indeed. Okay, now I'm curious... what does "V-Foil" stand for?

I really don't know, except that all of the V-Foil clubs MacGregor produced were touted as having high MOI and forgiveness; sounds no different than any OEM today.  I suspect that moving weight around was used; it certainly was for the Bobby Grace V-Foil M5K putter!!!  Maybe @BIG STU knows the origin.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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1 minute ago, Kenny B said:

I really don't know, except that all of the V-Foil clubs MacGregor produced were touted as having high MOI and forgiveness; sounds no different than any OEM today.  I suspect that moving weight around was used; it certainly was for the Bobby Grace V-Foil M5K putter!!!  Maybe @BIG STU knows the origin.

Probably much like "Jailbreak Technology" and throngs of other clever marketing terminology aimed at spiking testosterone. 😆

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

 

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53 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Probably much like "Jailbreak Technology" and throngs of other clever marketing terminology aimed at spiking testosterone. 😆

There must be something to it.  I know the head is a little larger than the typical blade style iron, but these are so easy to hit... just as easy as the Bridgestone JGR and they feel so much better when I hit one very well.  I just have to get used to the very weak lofts.  So glad that I now have reliable FW at the top of the bag... the Callaway 9W fits nicely after the 4i or as an alternative to it if I need a particularly high shot.

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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3 hours ago, Kenny B said:

I really don't know, except that all of the V-Foil clubs MacGregor produced were touted as having high MOI and forgiveness; sounds no different than any OEM today.  I suspect that moving weight around was used; it certainly was for the Bobby Grace V-Foil M5K putter!!!  Maybe @BIG STU knows the origin.

Honestly do not know

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Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW  Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

There must be something to it.  I know the head is a little larger than the typical blade style iron, but these are so easy to hit... just as easy as the Bridgestone JGR and they feel so much better when I hit one very well.  I just have to get used to the very weak lofts.  So glad that I now have reliable FW at the top of the bag... the Callaway 9W fits nicely after the 4i or as an alternative to it if I need a particularly high shot.

Yep we are on the same wavelength--- I now carry a 9 wood and still carry and hit a 4 iron too---- Good example I played 9 this morning and used the signature stuff mainly because we have a little game planned Friday--- Our 3rd hole can be a wicked little par 3 especially when the wind blows like it was this morning. That hole can be a quandry for me. 7 wood is too much and if I open it up I can get it high and get it float spinning. 9 wood I can normally hit there with a high soft cut. But with the wind I knew I could not get it there I played the 4 iron with a low cut to the left side of the green. Even though the course is extremely wet that side is dry. The flag was all the way to the right side. I knew darn well not to go flag hunting with that position. figured I could get it on the green going like I was. If it did not kick I have a open bump and run 5 iron at worst. Yeah it worked ok for me. Hit it where I wanted and ran it onto the left side of the green left me a 25 ft putt. Lagged it up got my par and ran to the cart. Anytime I can par that hole I will take it and run to the cart happy. And BTW right now the V=Foil putter is out of the bag. Nothing wrong with it I just messed around on a vintage round and found an old Spalding TP Mills #9 that I am rolling the potato pretty decent for now

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Driver ---- Honma G1_X Stock tuned Honma R shaft---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*---  Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW  Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand

 

 

 

 

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It makes sense on their newer driver (foil thin face?) but pretty sure hollow-body iron construction came to market long after Kenny's VIP's.  So this raises another question; who first introduced "hollow-body" irons?

 

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

 

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