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Belly/long/broomstick putter itself legal, anchoring not... Possible ruling


RookieBlue7

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Again, I don't believe you understand what anchoring is. It's artificially stabilizing the club. The long putter is anchored in your chest/chin, depending on how you use it. Sure, it can be used without anchoring it. One can stand straight up and hold it like one normally would with the exception that it not be anchored into the chest or chin. Ever used a broom? Same principle. Problem is, removing the anchor takes away the effectiveness of the putter. You've already stated as much. That's the point, without anchoring it, the club's effectiveness is removed.

 

As far as other grips removing the wrists, how does a Super Stroke fatso fundamentally change the putting stroke? How does it alter the skill required to sync the hands, arms and shoulders? How does it change putting? Does it change the manner in which the stroke is made? How does it artificially stabilize the user or the club? It doesn't, broomstick and belly putters do.

 

As far as asterisks go, I have no problem with that, or removing their name from a trophy or anything else.

 

As far as pros using them, when did you ever hear of Bill Haas as a clutch putter? What was Adam Scott's

major hole in his game? If there's no advantage, why are more and more people converting? If anchoring provides no advantage, why not use the same putter not anchored?

 

It's okay, I understand your position, you want to keep the method available so naturally you're not going to admit that anchoring gives an individual an advantage when using that type of putter. I get it. Doesn't change the fact that providing zero facts to support your position makes it a moot point to begin with. Again, I'll ask, if anchoring those types of putters is of zero advantage, why do you need to be permitted to anchor it? Why can't you still effectively use it without anchoring it? You can't, because the anchoring is what makes the putter work because of the artificial stabilization.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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First let me say, I am against more rules and regulations, period. There is a freaking book of rules for players, and another for equipment makers. They changed the grooves and the new grooves have had not effect on the pros but it does make a difference to the weekend golfer.

 

This +1

 

Putt without it anchored to you. I'm willing to bet whatever sum of money you'd like to bet that your putting is measurably worse

 

This doesn't really prove anything because you'll be using the putter in a way it wasn't intended and it would feel very awkward. It's a bit like saying use a standard putter and crouch down enough so it's anchored against your belly, then see if your putting improves. I'm willing to bet it doesn't.

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This +1

 

 

 

This doesn't really prove anything because you'll be using the putter in a way it wasn't intended and it would feel very awkward. It's a bit like saying use a standard putter and crouch down enough so it's anchored against your belly, then see if your putting improves. I'm willing to bet it doesn't.

 

Where did the design ever say the putter was intended to be anchored? I can grab one in a store and putt with it not being anchored. Problem is, it's not artificially stabilized and thus the reason for using it doesn't exist, because I'm not anchoring it and getting the advantage from the anchor. Ever heard of the almost belly? They're around 38" long and aren't anchored. Same type of putter absent the anchor.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Where did the design ever say the putter was intended to be anchored? I can grab one in a store and putt with it not being anchored. Problem is, it's not artificially stabilized and thus the reason for using it doesn't exist, because I'm not anchoring it and getting the advantage from the anchor. Ever heard of the almost belly? They're around 38" long and aren't anchored. Same type of putter absent the anchor.

 

Where in the standard putter design does it say you can't press it against your belly and crouch enough so your putter hits the ground?

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Again, I don't believe you understand what anchoring is. It's artificially stabilizing the club.

 

 

"Artificially" means man-made. There is nothing more man-made about the long putters, or stance, or anchoring than with the short putter. It is all man-made. That is the problem with making rules.

 

But the bottom line is that you still have to hit the putt the proper direction and distance.

 

Why am I so set on keeping it? Because I just bought a Scotty Cameron (my first Scotty) less than 3 weeks ago and the new has not worn off.

 

 

You said that it fundamentally alters the putting stroke. Well, let's see. You stand parallel with you intended line, check. You place your feet approximately shoulder width apart, check. You keep your eyes, inside or above the line, check. You grip the grip lightly, check. You bring the putter head back and accellerate through the ball, check. Now wheather you use a "swinging door" or a "pendulum" depends on your set up and putter. I have alway used the pendulum looking right down at the ball.

 

Last thing I have to say on the subject is, play whatever you want, and leave the rules alone.

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What's easier to alter the path of? A ball suspended from 2 steel rods in v-shaped cradle or a ball suspended from 2 ropes? What is easier to deviate from a back and forth path? Simple physics question. Don't answer(because I know you won't), I've got it for you, the ball suspended by two ropes is easier to alter the path of.

 

And don't worry, your Scotty will still be legal, just the cheating method of anchoring won't be.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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I kind of understand both sides of the argument but tend to disagree with the premise that anchoring in and of itself is unfair or should be illegal given the rules of golf, and also don't agree that it gives an "unfair" advantage, or even that it gives any advantage at all, as a semantic argument.

 

First, anchoring as I understand it only comes into play with the belly putters. I don't think the broomsticks, where the player has their hand braced on their chest with the grip in their hands is actually "anchoring" the putter to their body. They are anchoring their hand or their arm to their body, but that is not the same as anchoring the club directly as is the case with the belly putters. If the club is only contacted by the hands, then it is not by definition "anchored" to the body any more so than the standard putter is. Belly putters are anchored, no question about it.

 

Now to the question of advantage. If an option is open and available to use by everyone, then there is no advantage given to one that chooses one method over another. RookieBlue, if you believe you would putt better using a long putter, why on earth are you not using one? If its just personal dislike or a disagreement with the rules, then you are CHOOSING based on a matter of principle, because by your words, I assume you think that EVERYONE's putting would improve by anchoring the putter to the body, something that I don't think is true, and based on the number of pros that use a standard putter, they don't either. On the golf course, its about putting the ball in the hole, if you choose not to utilize the tools that allow you to do that best, that is on you. "Unfair" would mean that one person had an advantage over another, but since everyone can choose the same equipment, there is not issue of fairness or advantage here.

 

Myself, I don't find that I putt better with a belly or a long putter. I putt pretty well with my standard putter, sometimes I putt exceptionally with it, and overall I putt as good if not better than most of my peers whatever they are using. I find I cannot control distance with a belly putter, and don't seem to get the line any better than I do with the standard putter. For me, the belly putter reduces the feel of the putting stroke, and I find that feel to be essential for me to putt well. The broomstick is like a foreign object in my hands, I can't execute the mechanics of it at all.

 

Seems to me that you are hung up on the fact that there is a different principle at work with the different types of putters. I don't argue that. The ruling to ban anchoring the putter would certainly take the belly putters out of the game, as that is how they are designed to be used and they would be impractical if they couldn't be anchored. I dispute the idea that the broomsticks as used by most are actually anchored, certainly not in the same way that the belly putters are.

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I wouldn't gain any advantage using an anchored putter because I don't struggle with my putting. That's what anchored putters are for, and anyone that fits, builds, teaches, etc says. They won't make a good putter better, but they'll make a bad putter better/more consistent. I don't use crutches or a wheelchair either because I don't need those either.

 

As for broomsticks not being anchored, the hands are an extension of the club. If you're not anchoring by placing your hand into your chest or chin, what is the purpose at all? It's anchoring by definition.

 

As for it giving everyone an advantage, it's not, good putters don't need stabilization. They're perfectly fine and skilled enough to keep the putter on path and square. Anchoring is for poor putters and that's what they're designed for, to improve their path and ability to keep the putter square through the 4 inches that matter (2 before and after impact). Find something that makes a good putter better and market it, you won't find it. But you will find a product that makes a bad putter better and that's giving them an unfair advantage to the field because they're gaining an advantage by anchoring and it improving their lack of skill and control, making them more competitive instead instantly instead of making a bad putter develop their ability.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Watch the Bobby Grace fitting video posted here. I can't putt with a standard putter without using my hands or arms to swing it. He does plainly with the broomstick. Again, because it's anchored.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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I still disagree that a broomstick held only in the hands is "anchored" anymore than a standard putter. It is a different stroke, but its not anchored to any part of the body other than the hands.

 

Even so. . .so what? Its been shown that the best putters with long putters are no better than the best putters with standard putters. The very best with both have similar stats. A bad putter with a standard might be good with a long putter, a bad putter with a long putter might be good with a standard putter. You saying that because someone that is bad with a standard can sometimes do better with a long putter, and stating that the reason is because the long putter is "easier" is using a subjective term that simply isn't born out by the numbers, and are contradicted by those (like us) that putt well with standard and bad with long putters. If it really were easier, then someone that was good with a standard putter should always be better with a long putter, and we each have stated we don't find that to be the case.

 

Different, yes. Easier, no.

Ping I20 8.5* - Aldila NV 65g S
Adams XTD Super Hybrid 15* - Stock Fubuki S
Adams DHY 21* - Stock Matrix Ozik White Tie S
Mizuno MP58 4-8 Irons - Fujikura MCI 100 S
SCOR 42,46,50,54,58* - SCOR/KBS Genius S
STX Robert Ingman Envision TR 35", Iomic grip

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Watch the Bobby Grace fitting video posted here. I can't putt with a standard putter without using my hands or arms to swing it. He does plainly with the broomstick. Again, because it's anchored.

 

I watched this video, and I do not anchor the putter the way he says. I hold my 48" putter in my left hand and swing it with my right hand holding my head and shoulders as still as possible, much like I did with the short putter. I did not rock by shoulders. I had 28 putts today with 11 GIR and shot a 75, so I am not changing anything. Also since I did not anchor it to my body, I will not have to change a thing.

 

The putting stroke like all the rest of the stroke is dependant on whatever works for you. I do have issues with someone, who has never seen me putt with anything say that I am not a good putter especially when I have said repeatedly that I putt better with a short putter.

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I watched this video, and I do not anchor the putter the way he says. I hold my 48" putter in my left hand and swing it with my right hand holding my head and shoulders as still as possible, much like I did with the short putter. I did not rock by shoulders. I had 28 putts today with 11 GIR and shot a 75, so I am not changing anything. Also since I did not anchor it to my body, I will not have to change a thing.

 

The putting stroke like all the rest of the stroke is dependant on whatever works for you. I do have issues with someone, who has never seen me putt with anything say that I am not a good putter especially when I have said repeatedly that I putt better with a short putter.

 

 

You don't place your left hand on the grip and then touch part of your arm, securing it in the exact same spot on your chest? That's anchoring, sorry you don't understand that. And yes, these crutches were and are developed for persons that have trouble putting because they're unable to square the putter face in the 4 inches that matter and get them on line. When this passes, don't play any sanctioned events, because you'll immediately be DQ'd.

 

Long putters eliminate part of the the skill required to hit a putt. Anchoring the putter is creating a fulcrum point in which the putter swings from. There are several reasons for poor putting, from a poor stroke, to poor green reading, to poor speed. The anchored putter uses and artificial method for correcting flaws in a poor putting stroke. It makes the stroke more mechanically sound and repeatable and removes the prerequisite for skill. Does it compensate for poor speed/distance control? Not at all, but it makes the stroke more repeatable for those that struggle with that aspect of putting. There's not a putter(the actual piece of equipment) on the planet that can read a green. That's a fact. With that said, just because a putter doesn't get better doesn't mean that the anchored putter doesn't offer any artificial help. If one putts terribly because he can't read a green, no putter will fix that. But, if a guy putts poorly because he putts like he has 4 opposing hands during the stroke, an anchored putter can fix that entirely. If he still can't read a green, the percentages won't go up, but his line will be more true to where it's intended to be by his directionality. Poor reading and poor speed doesn't eliminate the need to make an accurate pass through the ball.

 

Every golf shot, including a putt, requires basic mental and physical demands to achieve the desired physical result. Most of those requirements are either negated or eliminated using an anchored putter. Anchored putters are designed to eliminate most of the skill required to putt prior to a stroke ever being made.

 

Instead of buying a crutch, why not do something golfers have been doing for decades? Practice.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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You don't place your left hand on the grip and then touch part of your arm, securing it in the exact same spot on your chest? That's anchoring, sorry you don't understand that. And yes, these crutches were and are developed for persons that have trouble putting because they're unable to square the putter face in the 4 inches that matter and get them on line. When this passes, don't play any sanctioned events, because you'll immediately be DQ'd.

 

Long putters eliminate part of the the skill required to hit a putt. Anchoring the putter is creating a fulcrum point in which the putter swings from. There are several reasons for poor putting, from a poor stroke, to poor green reading, to poor speed. The anchored putter uses and artificial method for correcting flaws in a poor putting stroke. It makes the stroke more mechanically sound and repeatable and removes the prerequisite for skill. Does it compensate for poor speed/distance control? Not at all, but it makes the stroke more repeatable for those that struggle with that aspect of putting. There's not a putter(the actual piece of equipment) on the planet that can read a green. That's a fact. With that said, just because a putter doesn't get better doesn't mean that the anchored putter doesn't offer any artificial help. If one putts terribly because he can't read a green, no putter will fix that. But, if a guy putts poorly because he putts like he has 4 opposing hands during the stroke, an anchored putter can fix that entirely. If he still can't read a green, the percentages won't go up, but his line will be more true to where it's intended to be by his directionality. Poor reading and poor speed doesn't eliminate the need to make an accurate pass through the ball.

 

Every golf shot, including a putt, requires basic mental and physical demands to achieve the desired physical result. Most of those requirements are either negated or eliminated using an anchored putter. Anchored putters are designed to eliminate most of the skill required to putt prior to a stroke ever being made.

 

Instead of buying a crutch, why not do something golfers have been doing for decades? Practice.

 

 

Are you sure you are not my ex-wife? She never listened to anyone and resorted to personal attacks when someone disagreed with her.

 

For the record, Adam Scott who you said improved so dramatically with the long putter went from making 36% of 5-15 footers to making 46% which brought him from 186th to 143th on the putting ratings. All his other putting stats are virtually the same. However, at the Masters he averaged 1.54 putts per hole. For the season he averaged 1.8 putts per hole.

 

Bottom line is that is not illegal. And yes I hold it in the same place every time because my arms stay the same length.

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Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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Are you sure you are not my ex-wife? She never listened to anyone and resorted to personal attacks when someone disagreed with her.

 

For the record, Adam Scott who you said improved so dramatically with the long putter went from making 36% of 5-15 footers to making 46% which brought him from 186th to 143th on the putting ratings. All his other putting stats are virtually the same. However, at the Masters he averaged 1.54 putts per hole. For the season he averaged 1.8 putts per hole.

 

Bottom line is that is not illegal. And yes I hold it in the same place every time because my arms stay the same length.

 

10% is a dramatic improvement in putting, considering the number of putts they hit annually in a PGA Tour season from that distance (At an average of 30 PPR, playing 21 tournaments, that's 2340 putts a year (calculated factoring the MC's he had), and I'd say roughly 1/3 minimum are from 7-10 feet. Based on those numbers, that's 77 more putts made over the course of the season from that distance alone, even though I'm sure a higher percentage of putts are from that distance.

 

He averaged .3 putts per hole less at the Masters alone, roughly, by your admission. In an 18 hole round, that's 5.4 strokes (roughly). Over the course of a tournament, that's 21.6 strokes at the Masters alone that he saved. Where does that put him finishing, adding the 21.6 strokes he saved? Missing the cut and making nothing. As it stands, he won $706k. That's a nice hefty sum of money.

 

Also, gaining 40 spots in the putting rankings is a massive jump.

 

I don't really care if someone uses a long putter to be honest. I like debating about it. The only problem I have is people saying that anchoring does nothing to assist the player in making the stroke. It does, definitively. If it didn't, persons using a long putter wouldn't anchor it. I fully expect a ban on anchoring to take place, at the very minimum, on the PGA Tour. Why? Because too many players are complaining, and Tiger jumped into the foray this week with them. If they want bifurication, whatever, I don't care. But don't lie to the masses and say anchoring does not assist with using these putters because if it didn't, there wouldn't be such an explosion of usage and guys putting improving as much as it has when they're statistically poor putters before anchoring.

 

I'm done with the debate, because there's really nothing you're going to do to change my mind, and I know persons arguing in favor of them aren't going to admit that anchoring the putters helps and removes the skill factor involved, nor are their minds going to change because their band-aid is stopping the bleeding.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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He averaged .3 putts per hole less at the Masters alone, roughly, by your admission. In an 18 hole round, that's 5.4 strokes (roughly). Over the course of a tournament, that's 21.6 strokes at the Masters alone that he saved. Where does that put him finishing, adding the 21.6 strokes he saved? Missing the cut and making nothing. As it stands, he won $706k. That's a nice hefty sum of money.

 

 

 

 

You can't use that as a stat. Putting is feel thing, even pros don't putt the same from week to week. Yet alone year to year at the same course. You really think he would have shot 20+ shots worse using a normal putter.

 

I don't agree, they've been around for decades. Just because a few pros go out win a handful of events in 1 year they want to change the rules.

 

Then to throw another spanner in the works, how do define anchoring if they ban it. Does it have to have pressure? If I sit on my belt buckle is that anchoring?

I have a revolving WITB policy.

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LONG PUTTERS: THE STATS

 

Belly putters have been creeping into the mainstream for awhile, but victories by young players, Keegan Bradley, 25, in the HP Byron Nelson Championship and the PGA Championship and Simpson, 26, in the Wyndham Championship (and now the Deutsche Bank) have escalated their use.

 

Have they made them great putters? Bradley was 101st in total putting prior to the Deutsche Bank Championship. At the distances at which an anchored putter is supposed to provide the greatest advantage, he was 50th inside five feet and 144th from five to 10 feet.

 

Simpson was 41st in total putting and 76th inside five feet and 67th inside five to 10 feet.

 

Meanwhile, Adam Scott, a convert to the long putter, ranked 122nd in total putting, 181st inside five feet and 22nd from five to 10 feet.

 

Scott's re-emergence as a world-class player has largely been attributed to the long putter. In fact his comeback was in full flower while he was still using the short putter. He won the Australian Open late in 2009, then won the Valero Texas Open in 2010 using a short putter. In the latter tournament, he made 52 straight putts inside five feet, his only miss coming when he had a cushion on the 72nd hole.

 

Conclusion: Belly or long putters might have made them better putters, but they haven't made them great putters.

 

 

Copied from Golf Digest online September 2011

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Yeah, the numbers simply aren't there to back up your claims RB7. Again (and again, and again) if using the long putter were truly easier and provided an advantage, then every single pro would use one. There's $millions at stake for them, they can't afford to give up any advantage, much less one as serious as you are implying.

 

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I look forward to hearing what the "experts" at the R&A and USGA define as anchoring. I "anchor" my elbows to my trunk sometimes. Would that then be banned? Bottom line is that as with the COR ruling and the groove ruling, public opinion will have NO influence on this decision which will leave some disappointed and others happy.

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Yeah, the numbers simply aren't there to back up your claims RB7. Again (and again, and again) if using the long putter were truly easier and provided an advantage, then every single pro would use one. There's $millions at stake for them, they can't afford to give up any advantage, much less one as serious as you are implying.

 

Put up the numbers that bear out your opinions. This is MyGolfSpy, we want to see the data! :P

 

 

Like I said in a previous post, which you evidently didn't read. The anchored putter isn't going to fix poor green reading or speed control. But it allows a repeatable stroke, removing the skill of syncing the hands, arms, and shoulders, and creates a fulcrum point for which the putter swings around. Last I checked, there's no data for green reading or speed. There's also not a stat that checks for the person hitting their intended line. Regardless, the anchored putter does allow one to significantly, and more easily get the ball on their intended line. If that intended line is the wrong line, no putter is going to fix that. But hitting that intended line, which is what the anchored putter fixes by removing the synchronization aspects of the swing.

 

And again, there are players out there on tour that won't switch, even if they putt better with it because they're traditionalists. Tiger Woods is one such player, and he's said as much (though he did pick someone's up to make fun of them on a practice green with. Besides that, SAM Lab data has proved that his Scotty is an improper fit for him, yet he won a ton of tournaments with it, even though the offset is improper and he's on a closing arc with it). There is a laundry list of players I can name that do much the same, and will never switch to an anchored putter because of the fact that they're traditionalists. Besides that fact, the players that putt well aren't going to see any benefits, because of the fact that they don't have a problem with stroke path. Again, this has been proven.

 

I'm done with the debate because everyone wants to argue the merits yet no one will concede the fact that the anchored putter does fix path problems, regardless if more putts are made or not (because there are more keys than a proper path through the ball to making putts).

 

As far as defining anchoring, there have been several places where it would be defined. There have also been several alternate proposals made, such as making the rule read that the putter can be no longer than the shortest club in the bag.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

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I've sat this thread out the last couple of days, but have watched it carefully. Now I think it's time to hop back in.

 

First I want to say that I'm personally a little bit disappointed in the tone this thread has taken on. I'm not singling anyone out, but some of the replies have taken on an unnecessary aggression, and have come dangerously close to personal attacks and insults. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they don't understand, or that they're an idiot. It just means they disagree; that they have a different perspective. I'm all for continued disagreement, but lets do it politely. If you want to crap all over people because their opinion is different from yours, there are other golf forums where you can do that.

 

As to the topic itself, here are my thoughts:

 

  • As has been discussed...ultimately this is a waste of time for both the USGA and RA. Instead of running around looking for an excuse to amend or change the rules yet again, they should be focused on growing the game. One could argue that belly putters have made the game more enjoyable for some, and if that is indeed the case, given the statistical evidence to suggest that they don't actually reduce the number of strokes taken on the green, well...that should be all the information the two governing bodies need to leave it alone.
  • So Tiger Woods has weighed in...great. Also, he's probably one of the last guys on tour who should get a vote (but nice that he's been talking it over with the R&A for the last couple of years). Apart from winning more than anyone else, the guy has done nothing for the game itself. He plays half as much as just about anybody else on tour, and there are very few pros who are less fan friendly. If the R&A wants advice on which chain of all-night diners has the easiest waitresses, Tiger is their guy. For everything else...I'd sooner listen to Ben Crane's take on improving pace of play.
  • Defining, and enforcing what constitutes anchoring is a fool's folly, and I can assure you nothing good will come of it. As has been pointed out, with long putters, the hand is anchored to the chest, not the putter. Can you anchor by association? If so, how is that different from a guy who anchors his elbows with a conventional putter? If anchoring isn't cheating now (and the rules say it's not), why should it be cheating next year. Matt Kuchar, I believe it's him anyway, effectively anchors his putter to the length of his forearm...it's a stroke not possible with a conventional putter. Regulating the stroke is rubbish.
  • If you want to argue that it's a crutch for bad putters, than we need to start looking at banning all crutches (and their are a lot of them). Let's start with movable weight drivers that allow golfers to turn their fades into draws. Steel shafts which offer consistency over hickory. Titanium for those who didn't hit persimmon far enough. Graphite for those guys who didn't swing steel fast enough. The list goes on and on, and while some of these are absurd examples, I would argue banning a certain type of putting stroke is equally as absurd.
  • All the back and forth in the world doesn't change the fact that the statistics don't support the notion that belly putters significantly improve putting. Sure, you can pluck examples (Adam Scott) at the Masters, but I'd be willing to be you could just as easily find an example of when Adam Scott putted better with a short putter than his belly. We all have good days (good weeks too) and bad, but ultimately the equipment we choose is based largely on how we think it performs, not how it actually does.
  • As a guy who has used belly putters on and off for the last several years, I can tell you (at least based on my own experience), performance improvements are not absolute. Belly putters simply represent a different compromise. I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally...with a belly putter I feel much more comfortable on shorter putts (lets say inside 8 feet). From 8 to about 30 feet, it's a push, I'm happy with either putter. Get outside 30 feet , where distance control becomes a larger concern, and quite frankly, I find shorter putters have the advantage, and I think many would agree with me.
  • The USGA's biggest fear in the world appears to be the nasty "B" word (bifurcation). I'll save my rants about how out of touch the USGA is if they don't think golfers haven't bifurcated all over their ridiculous rule book for another day, but here's the reality...within the last year some putter manufacturers have reported selling 10X belly putters over standard putters. These aren't pros...these are going into the bags of guys who have to pay for their clubs. Unlike wedges which wear out over time, putters have a near infinite life span. Are you seriously going to tell amateur golfers that they can no longer use the $200 putter they just bought? Do you use the same asinine strategy the USGA used with wedges. Pros stop using them now...amateurs get them until 2018?

Belly putters have been legal and in use for years, and now we're going to get our knickers in a twist because they've grown in popularity. Nonsense.

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I saw Tiger's comment for the press event yesterday and think that he may be onto something with the idea that the putter has to be shorter than the shortest club in your bag. This would eliminate the anchor or no anchor debate since it is nearly impossible to anchor a putter that short unless you use the method that Bernhard Langer used in the 90's before his switch to the long putter. The only thing that may be an issue is for guys like Tim Clark that are unable to putt with a short putter since he cannot rotate his arms in order to putt conventionally.

 

One thought would be to have two sets of rules....one for amateurs and one for professionals. Just about every sport has this distinction, most notably baseball since the pros are really the only level that use wooden bats. I understand that golf has never been that way and I also get the marketing side since OEMs sell what the pros are using (How many Sabertooth belly putters did you see before Bradley won the PGA?). The USGA and R&A are trying to grow the game and then are going to pass a rule that will in turn cause the game to contract based just on the number of players that use long putters for health reasons. I have said before that I have used a broom handle putter for many years and I currently use a traditional putter and have no intention of switching at this moment. I would just like to know that when I am in my sixties and still want to play golf that the broom handle option will still be there......too many years of football have taken a toll on my back and legs.

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T, they're not telling them they can't use the $200 putter that they just bought. That's the thing. The $200, $10,000, or $10 putter they just bought will still be legal. The method in which it can be used is all that is being talked about.

 

I'm not attacking anyone, as I know you were taking a shot at me. Historically, and in product discussion, teaching discussion, etc who have long putters (belly and broomstick) been targeted at? Poor putters. Who on the PGA Tour has turned to them? Again, poor putters. That's why I keep saying that's who they're aimed at. That's not aggression, that's from persons that teach it, who discuss it in the golf media, and what the manufacturers have aimed their product at.

 

The point I'm trying to make in this is that they're not going to tell anyone that they can't use the product. That's never been the discussion from my behalf, not what the USGA and R&A are discussing. The only point they're discussing is the methodology in which the putter can be used.

 

As far as the groove roll back, driver resizing, shaft technology, etc. None of those technological advancements have fundamentally changed the way the club is swung.

 

I've asked time and time again and have yet to get an answer from anyone to the question. Why does the putter need to be anchored to be effective? Why does the putter have to be anchored to even be used? How does anchoring alleviate the disability factor that is brought up at times? Is the disability not related to posture? Does not anchoring change the manner in which the putter will be used in regards to posture? How does anchoring a putter alleviate back, knee, joint, whatever pain?

 

Again, no one will say why anchoring makes the putter either usable or not usable. Is it a prerequisite to use this type of putter that it MUST be anchored?

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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T, they're not telling them they can't use the $200 putter that they just bought. That's the thing. The $200, $10,000, or $10 putter they just bought will still be legal. The method in which it can be used is all that is being talked about.

 

I'm not attacking anyone, as I know you were taking a shot at me. Historically, and in product discussion, teaching discussion, etc who have long putters (belly and broomstick) been targeted at? Poor putters. Who on the PGA Tour has turned to them? Again, poor putters. That's why I keep saying that's who they're aimed at. That's not aggression, that's from persons that teach it, who discuss it in the golf media, and what the manufacturers have aimed their product at.

 

The point I'm trying to make in this is that they're not going to tell anyone that they can't use the product. That's never been the discussion from my behalf, not what the USGA and R&A are discussing. The only point they're discussing is the methodology in which the putter can be used.

 

As far as the groove roll back, driver resizing, shaft technology, etc. None of those technological advancements have fundamentally changed the way the club is swung.

 

I've asked time and time again and have yet to get an answer from anyone to the question. Why does the putter need to be anchored to be effective? Why does the putter have to be anchored to even be used? How does anchoring alleviate the disability factor that is brought up at times? Is the disability not related to posture? Does not anchoring change the manner in which the putter will be used in regards to posture? How does anchoring a putter alleviate back, knee, joint, whatever pain?

 

Again, no one will say why anchoring makes the putter either usable or not usable. Is it a prerequisite to use this type of putter that it MUST be anchored?

 

I don't think that it is a prerequisite as Matt Kuchar used essentially a belly putter for all of last season and did not have it anchored to his belly. I believe the Angel Cabrera did something similar when he won the US Open a few years back when he used almost a 40" putter without anchoring it to his body. Just for the hell of it last night I was rolling some putts in my basement with the long putter and keeping my left hand about four inches away from my sternum and it was no different for me than if I had my hand in tight to my body. Was not the most comfortable of putting styles, but it would work if that was my only means of playing the game.

 

As for the back pain I play with several older gentlemen that have back issues that use the broom stick since the act of constantly bending at the waist puts too much strain on their lower back that they become uncomfortable and would thus have to play less. I could not tell you if a belly putter makes this any better since I have not used one for any extended period of time but with the broom stick just being able to stay more upright takes a lot of the pressure off of your back.

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T, they're not telling them they can't use the $200 putter that they just bought. That's the thing. The $200, $10,000, or $10 putter they just bought will still be legal. The method in which it can be used is all that is being talked about.

 

I'm not attacking anyone, as I know you were taking a shot at me. Historically, and in product discussion, teaching discussion, etc who have long putters (belly and broomstick) been targeted at? Poor putters. Who on the PGA Tour has turned to them? Again, poor putters. That's why I keep saying that's who they're aimed at. That's not aggression, that's from persons that teach it, who discuss it in the golf media, and what the manufacturers have aimed their product at.

 

The point I'm trying to make in this is that they're not going to tell anyone that they can't use the product. That's never been the discussion from my behalf, not what the USGA and R&A are discussing. The only point they're discussing is the methodology in which the putter can be used.

 

As far as the groove roll back, driver resizing, shaft technology, etc. None of those technological advancements have fundamentally changed the way the club is swung.

 

I've asked time and time again and have yet to get an answer from anyone to the question. Why does the putter need to be anchored to be effective? Why does the putter have to be anchored to even be used? How does anchoring alleviate the disability factor that is brought up at times? Is the disability not related to posture? Does not anchoring change the manner in which the putter will be used in regards to posture? How does anchoring a putter alleviate back, knee, joint, whatever pain?

 

Again, no one will say why anchoring makes the putter either usable or not usable. Is it a prerequisite to use this type of putter that it MUST be anchored?

 

I would simply ask, fundamentally, why does it matter how a club is swung. As far as I know, there's know current rule that makes a distinction between how different clubs in the bag can be swung. And while I realize any anchoring rule would be all-encompassing, would anybody be bent out of shape if I chose to anchor my driver...you know, to keep my swing on plane.

 

How long before someone decides James Lepp's saucer pass swing provides an unfair advantage around the greens (I know...it's not anchoring)? Point is, there are about 100 other things the USGA and R&A could be focusing on that would actually improve (and grow the game). Wasting time on how a club should be held (again, where the numbers suggest there is no actual advantage gained) is silly.

 

As for the impact on equipment purchases...you can spin it anyway you want, but I don't think you'd find many who would seriously argue that belly putters aren't designed to be anchored to the belly. Telling a guy he can't use his club as designed, might be worse than telling him he can't use it all.

 

The distinction between Belly Putters and long putters is an important one. I would maintain that with long putters, the hand is anchored to the body, not the club. Creating a definition of "anchoring" that tippy toes around the subtleties of it is difficult...and you'll have to deal with guys phoning in even more penalties (why does the PGA even answer the phone?).

 

The only way to do it would be the Tiger way, but then you'll end up with decisions for the rule to deal with situations like player breaks his putter, can he then putt with a hybrid, or must he use a wedge because anything else would exceed the length limitations.

 

At the end of the day, there's no statistical evidence to support the perception that people putt better with belly putters (and it's certainly not a universal truth). It's just not anything I think is worth pursuing.

 

 

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I would simply ask, fundamentally, why does it matter how a club is swung. As far as I know, there's know current rule that makes a distinction between how different clubs in the bag can be swung. And while I realize any anchoring rule would be all-encompassing, would anybody be bent out of shape if I chose to anchor my driver...you know, to keep my swing on plane.

 

How long before someone decides James Lepp's saucer pass swing provides an unfair advantage around the greens (I know...it's not anchoring)? Point is, there are about 100 other things the USGA and R&A could be focusing on that would actually improve (and grow the game). Wasting time on how a club should be held (again, where the numbers suggest there is no actual advantage gained) is silly.

 

As for the impact on equipment purchases...you can spin it anyway you want, but I don't think you'd find many who would seriously argue that belly putters aren't designed to be anchored to the belly. Telling a guy he can't use his club as designed, might be worse than telling him he can't use it all.

 

The distinction between Belly Putters and long putters is an important one. I would maintain that with long putters, the hand is anchored to the body, not the club. Creating a definition of "anchoring" that tippy toes around the subtleties of it is difficult...and you'll have to deal with guys phoning in even more penalties (why does the PGA even answer the phone?).

 

The only way to do it would be the Tiger way, but then you'll end up with decisions for the rule to deal with situations like player breaks his putter, can he then putt with a hybrid, or must he use a wedge because anything else would exceed the length limitations.

 

At the end of the day, there's no statistical evidence to support the perception that people putt better with belly putters (and it's certainly not a universal truth). It's just not anything I think is worth pursuing.

 

I believe the PGA passed something last year in which you can no longer phone in rules infractions. I may be wrong but I remember reading something about it.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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I believe the PGA passed something last year in which you can no longer phone in rules infractions. I may be wrong but I remember reading something about it.

 

They can still call them in, they just do not get a DQ anymore after they sign their card.

 

http://www.pga.com/news/pga-tour/rule-changed-spare-players-being-dqd-in-cases-trial-tv

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They can still call them in, they just do not get a DQ anymore after they sign their card.

 

http://www.pga.com/news/pga-tour/rule-changed-spare-players-being-dqd-in-cases-trial-tv

I knew there was something with it lol

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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Time to come clean I suppose, with the intent of this post and my viewpoint, being as tensions are starting to arise:

 

I could honestly care less, but I love sparking heated and fiery debates which is why I'm taking one side and going to the extreme with the ideas. If I were on the side of long putter users (which I knew would be the majority of opposers to the thread and idea with the title worded like I intentionally did), I'd go to that extreme. As it stands, I knew what the minority opinion would be when I posted the thread, which is the reasoning for the stance I'm taking. There's a guy in my normal foursome that uses a belly I built for him at his request (and because his putting couldn't have gotten any worse and I knew he'd try anything from a putter to a hockey stick to improve it. His putting really did improve a LOT). I give him as much grief about it as I am persons in this thread. At the end of the day, I really could care less, but I had to take a stance, and being as I like a good debate (I did some debating in school for the debate team), you have to take one side and go full bore with it and concede absolutely no points. It's a lot of fun, to me at least, to really rile people up during a debate because you get a true, passionate response supporting their viewpoint. I know there's passionate persons on either side, and I knew there would be strong debate. Why do you think I've been so active in this thread? Because I wanted the strong debate to take place and sustain to see honest opinions from both sides with passionate responses.

 

Would I play with anyone out there regardless of what putter they use? Of course, I don't care. Use those outlaw golf balls, a long drive club at 75 inches, or whatever you want. As long as we're not playing for money, I don't care. If we're playing for money, use anything you want within the CURRENT rules of golf and I'm fine with that as well(even an anchored putter or a 48" driver, heck, I have a long drive club I built for scrambles for the extra handful of yards). I'm going to have fun playing the game regardless, and I'm going to drink alcohol and laugh and cut up while doing so. And I'll even give someone some grief, because that's the mental approach. As long as it's good natured and I don't talk about someone's family or kids, I feel it's perfectly fine and part of gamesmanship.

 

Do I really believe that the long putters are bad? No, again, I don't really care because you still have to get the ball in the hole. But, for the sake of a good debate, I had to take a strong opinion that was based from one side or the other. I knew the title would draw in the long putter crowd to support their opinion strongly. Naturally, there had to be an opposing viewpoint that strongly supported the contrary. If there's no good debate, why debate at all?

 

At the end of the day, I just love discussing golf. I enjoy talking about everything related to it. I have no ill will toward anyone that wants to play the game, talk about it, or life in general. But, in every good debate, there has to be that radical opinion, IMO, to really draw out the responses that people really believe.

 

If I offended anyone in this thread, I apologize. I wanted a strong debate from opposing viewpoints, and I got that. I do get passionate when in a good debate, and if I took it too far and offended you, again, I apologize. I figured I may as well clear the air now, being as it appears this has run it's course and people were starting to get angry, discouraged, etc.

In The Bag
Driver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65x 
Strong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x
3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"
4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400

SW: 56* Scratch Tour Dept(CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
LW: 60* Scratch Tour Department (CC grooves) w/ Dynamic Gold Spinner
XW: 64* Cally XForged Vintage w/ DG X100 8 iron tiger stepped
Putter: Nike Method Prototype 006 at 34"

Have a ton of back-ups in all categories, but there are always 14 clubs in the bag that differ depending on the course and set-up. Bomb and gouge. Yes, I'm a club gigolo.

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For the record, I was not "starting to get angry". I GOT angry when you called me a cheater. I got angry when you implied it was cheating on another thread. I got angry when you said I needed a crutch because I could not play without them. I got angry when you implied that if I practiced more I would not have to cheat or use crutches. And I got angry when you refused to listen to what people were saying and casted their opinions asside like so much used tissue. But I assure you, I was not "starting" to get angry.

 

I wrote some rather scathing replies but since this is written "debate" rather than spoken, I could not use the excuse that I got carried away. I proof read everything, yet still missed some mistakes, and thought back how it would look when someone else looks at this a couple of months from now. So most of my remarks were removed.

 

 

 

BUT>>> there was some good points brought out. One however that was passed over happened early on. The Casey Martin remarks.

 

Casey was finally given his opportunity to play. Like everyone but Tiger, Phil, and Bud Cauley (this year) had to begin in the minor leagues. He played on the Nike Tour. Had one win, came to the PGA Tour, played in the US Open (T23), but then lost his card. Went to the Nationwide Tour and a couple of years ago, lost his spot there, and is now the golf coach in Eugene, Ore.

While the PGA Tour (2000) did not like it, he was eventually accepted. I believe that by the time he got to the PGA, it was such a minor "puff" story that was far overshadowed by Tiger Woods who and a pretty good year in 2000.

:ping-small:G430LST 10.5° on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Driver 

:ping-small:G430MAX 3w  on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Fairway 

:ping-small:G425 3H on     T P T    POWER 18 Hi Hybrid 

:taylormade-small:P790 Black 4-A 
on :kbs: TGI 80S
 

:mizuno-small: ES21 54-8° & 58-12° on :kbs: Hi Rev

:L.A.B.:DF2.1 on :accra: White

:titelist-small: ProV1  

:918457628_PrecisionPro: Precision Pro  NX7 Pro

All Iron grips are BestGrips Micro-Perforated Mid

Driver, 3w, 3H are JumboMax JMX UltraLite XS 

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