Backswing start and “trigger”

[RDel90]

I was recently just messing around with my “air swing” and played with the Matt Wolff “trigger” which goes forward to impact position first before initiating the backswing. A light bulb went off for me. The biggest differences I felt were a backswing initiated by the lead shoulder, feeling a better connection with my torso and ultimately what feels like a wider/deeper more complete turn from the hips (back to target) with trail shoulder going back and up. It made me realize previously I was initiating backswing too much with arms focusing on trying to go straight back to stay on plane (I’m a Single Plane Swinger) and limited my hip rotation/turn. I guess I was just getting lucky all other sequences caught up or I was compensating some other way in my swing when I did hit good shots. But overall I’m still inconsistent.

I can’t wait to hit the range and see if this new swing start feel helps with consistency and better impact.

I’ve seen several opinions on initiating backswing with lead shoulder, trail shoulder, hips…so what say you? How do you start your backswing and what’s your “trigger”?

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

It’s all about what helps the golfer. Like anything in the swing what “feel” or thought works for one may not work for another. It’s why if you look at some swing training courses like AMG, Milo Lines, some of Monte’s video series, Eric Cogorno’s stuff, they offer different drills for certain movements. What drill works for me might be different for you and different for someone else.

But all good swings have some movement and trigger. Dufner with the waggle. To an extreme Kyle Berkshire with the front to back foot, there’s a lot of pro golfers that have some movement from lead foot to back foot to initiate the movement. 
 

As for lead shoulder vs trail shoulder most of the instructors I’ve watched talk lead shoulder. Some like Dan carraher talk about trail shoulder and trail knee. There really isn’t a consensus but the hips definitely aren’t the initiator. Too much hip early in the swing is bad. The hips will move if the upper body sequences right.

[MacTourney]

What starts a swing can become a tricky discussion.  Personally,  the shorter a swing is, like a chip, starts with the feet from the ground up,  and the longer that swing becomes the more it feels like starting with the shoulders, but in all cases everything is moving at the same time, at different rates,  with a caveat.      

With feet secured to the ground reaching for something on the floor behind us everything moves together and in unison to accomplish the task unless an effort is made to interfere with that natural process.  

Some of the old goats wrote about starting the back swing with the hips, or from the ground up,  like Jackie Burke did, and others from his era, while Paul Azinger continued the tradition of starting with a level hip turn into the next era,  and if memory serves Greg Norman may have advocated same but my memory is as cloudy as a November morning.  

About fell out of my chair first time I saw Wolff's move, no way I could sequence that, not sure I'd want to try either. 

[SFLOrange]

I have struggled with lifting and early extension, but when I feel like I initiate with my trail shoulder it keeps everything down and sequenced, allowing me to turn and deliver the club with shaft lean.  When I think lead shoulder I get too fast and handsy.  I just took a few dry swings with the trigger you mentioned and I felt similar connection. Might have to stop by the range and give it a try today.

[RDel90]

50 minutes ago, SFLOrange said:

I have struggled with lifting and early extension, but when I feel like I initiate with my trail shoulder it keeps everything down and sequenced, allowing me to turn and deliver the club with shaft lean.  When I think lead shoulder I get too fast and handsy.  I just took a few dry swings with the trigger you mentioned and I felt similar connection. Might have to stop by the range and give it a try today.

I'd be curious to hear about your range experience if you give it a try. I know I'll have to remind myself it may be uncomfortable and will take numerous swings to truly get a feel and not just ditch it after 2 or 3 swings if I don't like the feel. 

53 minutes ago, MacTourney said:

What starts a swing can become a tricky discussion.  Personally,  the shorter a swing is, like a chip, starts with the feet from the ground up,  and the longer that swing becomes the more it feels like starting with the shoulders, but in all cases everything is moving at the same time, at different rates,  with a caveat.      

With feet secured to the ground reaching for something on the floor behind us everything moves together and in unison to accomplish the task unless an effort is made to interfere with that natural process.  

Some of the old goats wrote about starting the back swing with the hips, or from the ground up,  like Jackie Burke did, and others from his era, while Paul Azinger continued the tradition of starting with a level hip turn into the next era,  and if memory serves Greg Norman may have advocated same but my memory is as cloudy as a November morning.  

About fell out of my chair first time I saw Wolff's move, no way I could sequence that, not sure I'd want to try either. 

I can see how with short shots chips starting from the ground up as you're trying to limit shoulder movement and really get that hip/torso connection rotation. With longer clubs trying to keep that same "short shot from the ground up" mentality I feel like It's easy to forget that lower/upper body separation and the shoulders get left behind.

I wouldn't add the Wolff trigger into my on course swing either, but rather just use it in dry practice to get that lead shoulder/torso connection and upper/lower separation start feel.

[RickyBobby_PR]

39 minutes ago, RDel90 said:

I wouldn't add the Wolff trigger into my on course swing either, but rather just use it in dry practice to get that lead shoulder/torso connection and upper/lower separation start feel.

So what trigger would you use on the course? 
 

How do you know that trigger would work if you didn’t use it in practice?

The purpose of practice is to develop swing, routine, etc so that on the course you can execute a shot and not think golf swing 

[RDel90]

@RickyBobby_PR Right now I pretty much do the Justin Thomas "preview takeaway" once or twice before starting my swing and don't really have a trigger to be honest. Just thinking about it I can see how the JT style can give me the arms dominant takeaway feeling. I do like the clubface check that it provides.

I'm not really looking to implement a trigger move but moreso looking at establishing that lead shoulder feel I got from the Wolff trigger/takeaway and making sure I get that feeling as I go through preview takeaway/waggle so it's not so arm dominant. So yes I would practice that impact trigger to lock in the feel into my routine.

My question in the OP really is to see what feel others favor when starting their takeaway, how they start and if they use a trigger to get there.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

21 minutes ago, RDel90 said:

@RickyBobby_PR Right now I pretty much do the Justin Thomas "preview takeaway" once or twice before starting my swing and don't really have a trigger to be honest. Just thinking about it I can see how the JT style can give me the arms dominant takeaway feeling. I do like the clubface check that it provides.

I'm not really looking to implement a trigger move but moreso looking at establishing that lead shoulder feel I got from the Wolff trigger/takeaway and making sure I get that feeling as I go through preview takeaway/waggle so it's not so arm dominant. So yes I would practice that impact trigger to lock in the feel into my routine.

My question in the OP really is to see what feel others favor when starting their takeaway, how they start and if they use a trigger to get there.

 

In all that I still don’t see how you are going to trigger your swing on the course. A feeling is great, that’s what you should create in the preshot routine.

You are looking for a feel which I get but the golf swing isn’t static, it’s a dynamic movement.

If you just have a feeling of left shoulder starting then swing what move are you going to use to get that shoulder to move? What the good players have is a trigger to get the swing moving and not to start from a stand still position

[RDel90]

9 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

If you just have a feeling of left shoulder starting then swing what move are you going to use to get that shoulder to move? What the good players have is a trigger to get the swing moving and not to start from a stand still position

Well maybe that’s part of the reason I’m not a very good player

I’ll keep you posted if and when I ever figure out a good trigger for me. Thanks for that nudge!

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 minutes ago, RDel90 said:

Well maybe that’s part of the reason I’m not a very good player

I’ll keep you posted if and when I ever figure out a good trigger for me. Thanks for that nudge!

It can be as simple as lifting a little pressure into the lead food and then moving off the ball and getting pressure into the trail foot. Search athletic motion golf prefect takeaway. 

[TR1PTIK]

I've tinkered with my swing quite a bit over the years and most recently settled on a sort of trigger move akin to Dustin Johnson's. If you've ever paid close attention to how DJ starts the swing you'll notice that he kind of lifts the club head and begins setting the wrists before making any significant movement with his arms or torso - kind of like a forward press, but not quite. 

I've found that my best attempt at a similar move enables me to keep the knuckles of the left hand pointing down as the club moves back (also like DJ) and (more importantly for me) keep the elbows together a bit more. This helps me find the "slot" a bit easier and prevents a backswing that is too long - giving me better timing through impact. Last, but not least, this move forces my lead wrist into a flat or slightly bowed position at the top (nowhere near DJ - I don't have that physical ability) which helps with clubface control and reduce my chances of flipping at the bottom.

In all honesty, I probably do a bit more of a forward press than DJ, but the thought in my head is to mimic him and since doing so I've seen a significant uptick in consistency.

[Siamese Moose]

I had a lesson this morning, and he's given me a drill (he called it "centering")to work on. I'll see if I carry it to the course. My normal trigger is a forward press. However, I'm having a tendency to drop my head as I go into the takeawy, which requires me to move up on the downswing, pulling off the ball. The drill is really an extended waggle, just slowly swinging the club forward 18-24 inches, and then go straight into the takeaway. Every single time I do this move my head stays still (enough), and everything stays much more rhythmic and connected. Stop doing it, and my head drops. I've got work to do.

[RDel90]

26 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

In all honesty, I probably do a bit more of a forward press than DJ, but the thought in my head is to mimic him and since doing so I've seen a significant uptick in consistency.

A long time ago I used to use a little forward press trigger move but felt like a was deloftjng and closing the club face too much with that and let it go. Could be worth revisiting and playing with. 

[RDel90]

3 minutes ago, Siamese Moose said:

I had a lesson this morning, and he's given me a drill (he called it "centering")to work on. I'll see if I carry it to the course. My normal trigger is a forward press. However, I'm having a tendency to drop my head as I go into the takeawy, which requires me to move up on the downswing, pulling off the ball. The drill is really an extended waggle, just slowly swinging the club forward 18-24 inches, and then go straight into the takeaway. Every single time I do this move my head stays still (enough), and everything stays much more rhythmic and connected. Stop doing it, and my head drops. I've got work to do.

Great drill that helps with tempo as well

[TR1PTIK]

2 hours ago, RDel90 said:

A long time ago I used to use a little forward press trigger move but felt like a was deloftjng and closing the club face too much with that and let it go. Could be worth revisiting and playing with. 

I'd say my move is pretty small, but haven't actually seen it on camera to know for sure. I do have to be careful how I move the hands forward sometimes though - I have to keep them on the same plane as what they will be on going back which keeps the face square. I actually find that my hands want to travel away from me forcing the handle upright if I'm not careful which leads to an open clubface.

[NC Golfer]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:02 PM, Siamese Moose said:

I had a lesson this morning, and he's given me a drill (he called it "centering")to work on. I'll see if I carry it to the course. My normal trigger is a forward press. However, I'm having a tendency to drop my head as I go into the takeawy, which requires me to move up on the downswing, pulling off the ball. The drill is really an extended waggle, just slowly swinging the club forward 18-24 inches, and then go straight into the takeaway. Every single time I do this move my head stays still (enough), and everything stays much more rhythmic and connected. Stop doing it, and my head drops. I've got work to do.

By saying you waggle forward, is it extending away from you, then back and then swing? 

[RDel90]

1 hour ago, NC Golfer said:

By saying you waggle forward, is it extending away from you, then back and then swing? 

Here’s what I think he’s talking about. I think it’s at the 2:48 mark.

https://youtu.be/GXX61LiW0Qg

 

[Siamese Moose]

5 hours ago, NC Golfer said:

By saying you waggle forward, is it extending away from you, then back and then swing? 

It's waggling towards the target, on the line that I would follow post impact. Then take it back past the ball into the backswing. 

[GaryF]

I have tried a number of things that together work for me. On the tee, I place the ball with the “line” pointing toward my intended target.  I learned a number of years ago that my mental orientation and physical orientation are not the same.  In the fairway, I am very conscious of this so really watch my alignment.   I do 2-3 partial take-always primarily to make sure the grip is in the in the finger slot of my lead hand.  I’ll then look down range, usually a bit to the right of my target as I tend to otherwise have slightly closed shoulders.  Doing this also has the benefit of making sure I start the takeaway on the inside.

I have practiced both lead and back shoulder take-always, but find the lead shoulder push keeps me from lifting the club and becoming disconnected.  If I use the back shoulder, I almost alway get armsy.  I work at least a couple times/week on the range to stay consistent.  For short 1/2 swing pitches, I find it’s very easy to get armsy, and usually, but not always get away with it, so I practice wedge shots a lot making sure I do the same lead shoulder push.

Edited August 16, 2022 by GaryF