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Mizuno JPX 923


GolfSpy TCB

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2 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Thanks for the link Matt!!

just watched the vid... can't choose which I like better... the whole line is impressive.

 

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put my order in 5 to PW HM Pro. i placed a custom order to let Mizuno bend the irons 2 flat, don't know how hard this nickel chromoly will be to bend. i will spot check and fine tune the lie angles when i receive them, as well as reshaft. 

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Driver:callaway-small: Rogue St Max LS - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:callaway-small: Rogue Max St 3HL and 7 Wood
Irons:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 5 to AW - Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip
Wedges:ping-small: Glide 4.0 54 and 58
Putter:  :ping-small: PLD Custom Kushin 4

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1 hour ago, dlow206 said:

put my order in 5 to PW HM Pro. i placed a custom order to let Mizuno bend the irons 2 flat, don't know how hard this nickel chromoly will be to bend. i will spot check and fine tune the lie angles when i receive them, as well as reshaft. 

Not that difficult, I had mine done 2° up.

In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSR2 Project X HZRDUS Black 5.5
Fairway: :callaway-small: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5

Irons: :mizuno-small: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Wedges: :mizuno-small: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Putter :Sub70: Sycamore 005 Wide Blade
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Balls: :callaway-small: Chrome Soft X

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The “HL” have my interest.  Should be a choice iron for my age group.

Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior  
5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr       
7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2
Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56*

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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These irons look great.  But I really don't understand the need for so many models.  Seems like there is more overlap than is necessary.  Is there anyone playing the tour that wouldn't be suited to something in the Pro line?  Does anyone who plays the HM think they couldn't get the same thing out of the HM pro, or vice versa?

I would think that Mizuno could offer the HM forged, HM pro, and HM high launch and combined with the Pro series, and still cover all golfers needs.  They could even go as far as to do what Ping does with offering different loft specs in each series so players/fitters could dial in spin and ball flight to a greater degree.

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Irons:  :mizuno-small: 921 Hot Metal 5-Pw

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Didn't have any real solid basis, but I didn't realize the HM was Mizuno's best selling iron, followed by the HMP. I've always considered Mizuno's (Chuo) forging tech was what set them apart from many others, never stopped to think forged irons are a increasingly a smaller niche. Kinda gives new meaning to nothing feels like a Mizuno (all relative?) I may be buying my first cast irons ever after 58 years all forged...

When I started playing golf, there weren’t any irons that weren’t forged. Now they’re niche halo products?

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this is a good video. Hot Metals in general do well with Toe strikes, no wonder i like them

 

Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 07/15/2022
Driver:callaway-small: Rogue St Max LS - Autoflex
Fairway Woods:callaway-small: Rogue Max St 3HL and 7 Wood
Irons:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 5 to AW - Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip
Wedges:ping-small: Glide 4.0 54 and 58
Putter:  :ping-small: PLD Custom Kushin 4

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9 hours ago, Middler said:

Didn't have any real solid basis, but I didn't realize the HM was Mizuno's best selling iron, followed by the HMP. I've always considered Mizuno's (Chuo) forging tech was what set them apart from many others, never stopped to think forged irons are a increasingly a smaller niche. Kinda gives new meaning to nothing feels like a Mizuno (all relative?) I may be buying my first cast irons ever after 58 years all forged...

So a bit of perspective. Before the JPX900 model Mizuno had about 2% retail market share of irons.   It is now pushing 10% and one model is predominately responsible for that. The Hot Metal.  And as you said as of last year Hot Metal Pro helping it out.  
 

The last official numbers I saw had Trulu forged irons at less than 1% of retail sales.   In other words for every Mizuno Pro 221 snd 223 sold there are 199 Hot Metals.  For every 100 Callaway Apex their are 99 Rogues.  Etc.  Etc. 
 

Those percentages are a bit higher among Golf Forum members 😂

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On 9/23/2022 at 8:14 PM, Rickp said:

The “HL” have my interest.  Should be a choice iron for my age group.

You are correct Rick.  
 

So some interesting and very basic LM data from my Mevo this AM.  I took the Hot Metal HL 7 iron out vs my Gen 5 XP 7 iron and here is a summary.  I am the poster child target audience for the HL,  Swing speed mid 73 to 75 mph., not enough speed to get a high launch and decent.  

 

But from this limited sample of 10 shots each after warming up heres what I saw. 

 

Editorial note, these numbers are a bit off from my normal, not so much CHS but ball speed and smash, as I am 1 week out from Cataract surgery, so contact was questionable at best all across the board, but same for both.  
 

The carry distance is about 15 yards off whst I get on course   Swing speed is about 3-4 mph off normal  

 

CHS-                    Gen 5    73.01           Hot Metal Averaged 73.38 

Ball Speed            Gen  5  91.68           Hot Metal HL 94.33

Smash                  Gen 5      1.24          Hot Metal HL  1.28 

Carry                    Gen 5    115.01   Hot Metal HL 115.93  

Spin                      Gen 5    6342          Hot Metal  7738 

Launch                 Gen 5     22.02         Hot Metal HL 26.6 

Peak Height         Gen 5     65.98         Hot Metal HL  84.17

 

So it's pretty obvious, the Hot Metal HL does exactlyh what Mizuno has desgined it to do.  With higher lofts you would expect higher, launch, Spin and height.   And those are all signiciantly higher than the Gen 5 XP   

 

And even with the weaker loft, they had higher ball speed and almost not quite a yard more carry.   That I would assume comes exactly from the new Nickel Chomoly Mizuno is touting in these.

 

So anyway gave the ego a blow by posting those numbers, but hopefully it will helps someone with similar swig speeds that needs to hit the ball higher wondering what they will gain/lose out of them.

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:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

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7 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

You are correct Rick.  
 

So some interesting and very basic LM data from my Mevo this AM.  I took the Hot Metal HL 7 iron out vs my Gen 5 XP 7 iron and here is a summary.  I am the poster child target audience for the HL,  Swing speed mid 73 to 75 mph., not enough speed to get a high launch and decent.  

 

But from this limited sample of 10 shots each after warming up heres what I saw. 

 

Editorial note, these numbers are a bit off from my normal, not so much CHS but ball speed and smash, as I am 1 week out from Cataract surgery, so contact was questionable at best all across the board, but same for both.  
 

The carry distance is about 15 yards off whst I get on course   Swing speed is about 3-4 mph off normal  

 

CHS-                    Gen 5    73.01           Hot Metal Averaged 73.38 

Ball Speed            Gen  5  91.68           Hot Metal HL 94.33

Smash                  Gen 5      1.24          Hot Metal HL  1.28 

Carry                    Gen 5    115.01   Hot Metal HL 115.93  

Spin                      Gen 5    6342          Hot Metal  7738 

Launch                 Gen 5     22.02         Hot Metal HL 26.6 

Peak Height         Gen 5     65.98         Hot Metal HL  84.17

 

So it's pretty obvious, the Hot Metal HL does exactlyh what Mizuno has desgined it to do.  With higher lofts you would expect higher, launch, Spin and height.   And those are all signiciantly higher than the Gen 5 XP   

 

And even with the weaker loft, they had higher ball speed and almost not quite a yard more carry.   That I would assume comes exactly from the new Nickel Chomoly Mizuno is touting in these.

 

So anyway gave the ego a blow by posting those numbers, but hopefully it will helps someone with similar swig speeds that needs to hit the ball higher wondering what they will gain/lose out of them.

Thanks Rob.  It seems Mizuno never disappoints. Now that I’m healing after my knee surgery I want to take a really good look at these, your numbers are interesting and I know they’re real not PR Marketing.

Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior  
5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr       
7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2
Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56*

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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15 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

So some interesting and very basic LM data from my Mevo this AM. 

From the MGS Blog:

WHO IS THE JPX 923 HOT METAL HL PLAYER?
Mizuno found that the breakeven point between HL and standard Hot Metal is right around a 73-mph 7-iron. If you don’t know your 7-iron speed, it works out to something between 87 and 90 mph with a driver. If you’re below that, Mizuno thinks there’s a good chance you’ll be better served by JPX 923 Hot Metal HL.

Read the full article here:  https://mygolfspy.com/mizuno-jpx-923-hot-metal-iron-family-standard-pro-hl/

Once again... my swing speed fits exactly between the breakpoints.  The HL is VERY intriguing to me.  While my age increases, by iron apex does not.  While I know distance in irons is a subjective number...  I am already short enough with my irons to require a bag full of woods and hybrids to work my way to long par 4's and in some cases... long par 3's.  I have a mental tango with my self often thinking about which is more accurate at longer distances... at 185... I have an iron, a hybrid and a fairway that go the same distance I could add to my bag... the question is... which one is going to give me the most chance for lower scores... right now, the 7 wood wins (I can use it in more applications around the course), but from an accuracy standpoint, the iron would win... though it is a lower and less carry/more roll application.  This JPX HL may close that gap between the two.  I believe the MGS writeup talks about this - but it isn't just about reducing loft... there also needs to be help to get the ball up in the air at that lower loft.  Without testing the JPX 923 line yet... I can't say if that has been improved this year, or how it compares to my current clubs... but that will be the thing I want to see in my own ball flight testing.  

I consider myself a candidate for pretty much all 5 irons... I LOVE the look of the tour spec (thinner top line, less offset, more compact head, forged feel), but after testing some other GI irons, I can say I'm not mad at any of them... in fact - while I prefer the look of a club that more closely resembles a players blade, and confidence when looking down is a factor in execution of shots, I have come to admit that I get more consistent shots the further down the GI path I wander.  

So... what to do?  test test test and I have a feeling the choice will come down to the HL and the HMP... but that is just my prediction in an envelope.  Once I have an opportunity to try them... I am open to accepting the results - even if that means for a little less distance out of the iron set... trading for improved gapping across the set... I guess I'll add a 9 wood if I need to. 😉

Really looking forward to all the reviews (mainly from the members here... best testers there are IMHO), as these JPX's make their way into your hands. 

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On 8/22/2022 at 10:52 AM, GolfSpy_BOS said:

That's super interesting.  I hit the 225s at a golf show and thought they felt amazing even compared to my Forged Tec which I think feel really good.  Granted, that was not with my normal ball... and I've been itching to go try them out again with my usual ball.  I know that the hollow body category can suffer in the feel/sound department.  I just feel the 225s are on the better end.  

Different strokes for different folks I guess!

RE: the new JPX line.. I'll be curious to see the final specs and see where these fit in from a loft progression stand point.  and then would like to see if they feel better than the 225s.  Of course, they'll have to beat out the Forged Tec's which have been great for me for any of that to matter.

 

14 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

So a bit of perspective. Before the JPX900 model Mizuno had about 2% retail market share of irons.   It is now pushing 10% and one model is predominately responsible for that. The Hot Metal.  And as you said as of last year Hot Metal Pro helping it out.  
 

The last official numbers I saw had Trulu forged irons at less than 1% of retail sales.   In other words for every Mizuno Pro 221 snd 223 sold there are 199 Hot Metals.  For every 100 Callaway Apex their are 99 Rogues.  Etc.  Etc. 
 

Those percentages are a bit higher among Golf Forum members 😂

I guess with those sales numbers i’m lucky we are getting clubs like the tour and forged at all, which I can’t wait to hit and fit into with some modern shafts. 

though I have been checking out 919 tours on ebay this morning, as they seem to be the last club mizuno made with the 1025e steel, so they should have the feel i’m looking for, in the lofts i want, and I can actually get a hold of them for the good weather part of the year down here in south florida.  I don’t need to make a change right now, but i’m starting to feel the itch. 

I’m definitely jealous of the guys on this thread whose preferred model wasn’t delayed with Mizuno’s  staggered release. 

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9 hours ago, Rickp said:

Thanks Rob.  It seems Mizuno never disappoints. Now that I’m healing after my knee surgery I want to take a really good look at these, your numbers are interesting and I know they’re real not PR Marketing.

Rick. If I was going to lie. I certainly would make up those numbers.   Ha 

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3 hours ago, ryan.mzzz said:

 

I guess with those sales numbers i’m lucky we are getting clubs like the tour and forged at all, which I can’t wait to hit and fit into with some modern shafts. 

though I have been checking out 919 tours on ebay this morning, as they seem to be the last club mizuno made with the 1025e steel, so they should have the feel i’m looking for, in the lofts i want, and I can actually get a hold of them for the good weather part of the year down here in south florida.  I don’t need to make a change right now, but i’m starting to feel the itch. 

I’m definitely jealous of the guys on this thread whose preferred model wasn’t delayed with Mizuno’s  staggered release. 

Well they may be the bulk of there sales.  But 3 years ago.  Chris Voshall told us in a meeting, that if they could only make one club.  It was be the JPX Forged.   He  said it fit the widest range of players on bolt ends od the handicap scale. 
 

In a funny comment he made when asked why there were no 3 irons offered in any line.   He smiled and said, only a couple of our Tour players want a 3 iron. So if they aren’t going to play it, we certainly aren’t going to make it for the casual player.   
 

LOL. Gotta love internet golfers 😬

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3 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Well they may be the bulk of there sales.  But 3 years ago.  Chris Voshall told us in a meeting, that if they could only make one club.  It was be the JPX Forged.   He  said it fit the widest range of players on bolt ends od the handicap scale. 
 

In a funny comment he made when asked why there were no 3 irons offered in any line.   He smiled and said, only a couple of our Tour players want a 3 iron. So if they aren’t going to play it, we certainly aren’t going to make it for the casual player.   
 

LOL. Gotta love internet golfers 😬

I'm finding the forged to be a great iron, they're as long as the F8's I had and pretty forgiving. Now, that's not to say I'm hitting them like they deserve. There's not an iron out there that can make a shank fly true and straight. That's more down to me and what I'm doing, but once I get that figured out...watch out. 

Also, the new 923 lineup is looking like it's going to be a performer. 

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The new HMP is the goods. The tech really helps on mishits. #17 at my club yesterday, 180 to the middle, hit my 5 iron off the toe area. Right side of the green, still pin high. (Don't worry about the sh!t drive)

1127596667_Screenshot2022-09-26at05-42-36Rounds-ShotScope.png.4f41644f14a2df9f20e1674ec8c3e432.png

In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSR2 Project X HZRDUS Black 5.5
Fairway: :callaway-small: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5

Irons: :mizuno-small: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Wedges: :mizuno-small: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Putter :Sub70: Sycamore 005 Wide Blade
Bag: 
:Ogio: Alpha Convoy 514
Balls: :callaway-small: Chrome Soft X

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


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56 minutes ago, MattF said:

The new HMP is the goods. The tech really helps on mishits

I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on the differences between your previous set and the new JPX923 HMP's.  Specifically the launch characteristics.  I have a feeling the new tech is a higher, but equally penetrating flight... but haven't had the chance to test for myself.

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3 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on the differences between your previous set and the new JPX923 HMP's.  Specifically the launch characteristics.  I have a feeling the new tech is a higher, but equally penetrating flight... but haven't had the chance to test for myself.

No idea about launch. I don't have a monitor and to be honest, have no interest in doing anything with one. I'm an eyeball and feeling guy.

They feel so much better on mishits than either the Wilsons or DBMs ever did. They also perform better on the mishits than either of them. When struck properly, to my eye, they seem to land softer than either of my previous irons.

In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSR2 Project X HZRDUS Black 5.5
Fairway: :callaway-small: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5

Irons: :mizuno-small: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Wedges: :mizuno-small: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Putter :Sub70: Sycamore 005 Wide Blade
Bag: 
:Ogio: Alpha Convoy 514
Balls: :callaway-small: Chrome Soft X

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


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28 minutes ago, MattF said:

no idea about launch. I don't have a monitor and to be honest, have no interest in doing anything with one.

Thanks Matt, I used "launch" as a buzzword... what I really wanted to know is if to your eye they flew the same or higher (or lower), and gave you similar, better or worse distance.  Sounds like they are a huge winner for mishits... which is awesome as well.  

I'm not adverse to LM data... but at the same time... I have a tendency to spend my time hitting balls rather than setting up the LM (or connecting to one at my range).  My hands, my ears, and my eyes are how I gauge if a club is a match for me... 🙂

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2 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Thanks Matt, I used "launch" as a buzzword... what I really wanted to know is if to your eye they flew the same or higher (or lower), and gave you similar, better or worse distance.  Sounds like they are a huge winner for mishits... which is awesome as well.  

I'm not adverse to LM data... but at the same time... I have a tendency to spend my time hitting balls rather than setting up the LM (or connecting to one at my range).  My hands, my ears, and my eyes are how I gauge if a club is a match for me... 🙂

👍 Right at the moment I'm getting about the same distance, but I expect that to change to the tune of 5-10 yards.

The mishits are the real winner for me. Even if it's off line, expecting it to still be near pin high will be great.

In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSR2 Project X HZRDUS Black 5.5
Fairway: :callaway-small: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5

Irons: :mizuno-small: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Wedges: :mizuno-small: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
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1 hour ago, MattF said:

👍 Right at the moment I'm getting about the same distance, but I expect that to change to the tune of 5-10 yards.

The mishits are the real winner for me. Even if it's off line, expecting it to still be near pin high will be great.

Curious if you've seen any of those "I flushed it and suddenly it's going 10-15 yards further than normal" shots with these - absolutely love that the mishits aren't penalizing you on distance, though.  I just have a tendency to, every once in a while, actually hit my irons out of the center, and I can't always guarantee they go the distance they normally do, lol.  (I nearly beaned someone 30 yards over the back of the 18th one time - I still don't understand what happened, but there is genuinely no way in hell my club would ever go that far - except it did.) 

Driver - PXG 0811 XF - Gen 5, 9 degrees (+1 setting), Oban Devotion TR 65 04
3/5 Wood - Cobra LTDx Max (Blue Colorway)
Utility - Caley X01 Driving Iron (3 = 18*)
Irons (5-PW) - Caley 01T
Wedges (48, 52, 56, 60) - Indi Wedges FLX 48 / ATK 52, 56, 60
Putter - L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 - 65*
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5 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

Thanks Matt, I used "launch" as a buzzword... what I really wanted to know is if to your eye they flew the same or higher (or lower), and gave you similar, better or worse distance.  Sounds like they are a huge winner for mishits... which is awesome as well.  

I'm not adverse to LM data... but at the same time... I have a tendency to spend my time hitting balls rather than setting up the LM (or connecting to one at my range).  My hands, my ears, and my eyes are how I gauge if a club is a match for me... 🙂

Dynamic loft is going to play a larger role than anything else in terms of launch I believe. So all things equal, the "high launch" are going to launch higher because they're 3-degrees weaker throughout most of the set than the standard HM. They juiced the materials to keep ball speeds high -- so you get higher launch, more ball speed, and similar distance -- like what Rob saw vs his PXG (which are 4 degrees stronger).

I hit one model from almost every major OEM during my fitting (in hindsight I should've waited for the 223s to drop) and my delivery conditions result in nearly identical launch averages (right around 14 degrees with a 6i), until you give me more loft. Beyond that, if I wanted to increase my launch I would need a shaft with a softer tip section. 

So, I don't think there's any magic going on with the HL. They just kept the lofts traditional, and found a way to create more ball speed via materials, which is great for people who want/need those things and great for fitters because they can fine tune things during fits. I think a split set with HL and standard HM might be common. Little extra height to help with those greens that are protected by bunkers in front and those kind of things.

  

2 hours ago, Samsonite said:

Curious if you've seen any of those "I flushed it and suddenly it's going 10-15 yards further than normal" shots with these - absolutely love that the mishits aren't penalizing you on distance, though.  I just have a tendency to, every once in a while, actually hit my irons out of the center, and I can't always guarantee they go the distance they normally do, lol.  (I nearly beaned someone 30 yards over the back of the 18th one time - I still don't understand what happened, but there is genuinely no way in hell my club would ever go that far - except it did.) 

 

Biased Mizuno opinion: I think Mizunos have the best front-back distance dispersion I've ever seen. I would likely have Ping i59s in my bag if I didn't feel like they were too "hot." I want my irons to go a specific distance, dispersion left to right is on me. Without any external forces (wind, flier lie, etc.) if I hit the middle of the face I know it's going to go the distance I want it to.

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2 minutes ago, yungkory said:

Dynamic loft is going to play a larger role than anything else in terms of launch I believe. So all things equal, the "high launch" are going to launch higher because they're 3-degrees weaker throughout most of the set than the standard HM. They juiced the materials to keep ball speeds high -- so you get higher launch, more ball speed, and similar distance -- like what Rob saw vs his PXG (which are 4 degrees stronger).

I hit one model from almost every major OEM during my fitting (in hindsight I should've waited for the 223s to drop) and my delivery conditions result in nearly identical launch averages (right around 14 degrees with a 6i), until you give me more loft. Beyond that, if I wanted to increase my launch I would need a shaft with a softer tip section. 

So, I don't think there's any magic going on with the HL. They just kept the lofts traditional, and found a way to create more ball speed via materials, which is great for people who want/need those things and great for fitters because they can fine tune things during fits. I think a split set with HL and standard HM might be common. Little extra height to help with those greens that are protected by bunkers in front and those kind of things.

Thanks YK.  Your comments will certainly hold true for the HL.  I don't recall what Matt was playing before getting the new HMP's but was wondering if there was any new tech built in to even the non HL models to get some higher apex.  May not be noticeable, but that is one thing I'm curious about.  

I play the T200's, but have tried out the Stealth irons, and while they are stronger lofted, and give me more distance which is to be expected... what I didn't expect was the higher launch that was very evident.  Wondering if the JPX923's offer that outside the weaker lofted HL's. 

Ultimately, I will get them in my hands to work them out for myself... until then... living vicariously through those of you that have had a chance to hit them. 

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14 hours ago, Samsonite said:

Curious if you've seen any of those "I flushed it and suddenly it's going 10-15 yards further than normal" shots with these - absolutely love that the mishits aren't penalizing you on distance, though.  I just have a tendency to, every once in a while, actually hit my irons out of the center, and I can't always guarantee they go the distance they normally do, lol.  (I nearly beaned someone 30 yards over the back of the 18th one time - I still don't understand what happened, but there is genuinely no way in hell my club would ever go that far - except it did.) 

No flyers at this stage but flushed will get some more out of them. Too bad I'm not consistent enough to always hit the centre. 

12 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

I don't recall what Matt was playing before getting the new HMP's

Right before, Maltby DBM for about 3 months. Before that, Wilson D7 forged (from a test here) for close to 2 years.

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Fairway: :callaway-small: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5

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Wedges: :mizuno-small: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
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3 hours ago, MattF said:

No flyers at this stage but flushed will get some more out of them. Too bad I'm not consistent enough to always hit the centre.

I have the 919 HMP and I would say the same thing, no real fliers here. Though I am a bit steep so I usually have enough spin to keep flight consistent. That's normally what causes that flier, if you spin is border line with your irons losing even a little spin can send them like rockets.

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Okay - here's my next question.  So, I'm definitely not the market for the HMHL - driver is between 99-101, typically.  But: why wouldn't someone like me look at the HL?  I mean, I don't mind the loft being more "traditional", it's something I've been looking at anyway, since I'd rather get consistent distance control than sometimes hitting a 185 yard 7-iron (Sim Max to the rescue?) and other times hitting it 170...  I guess I'm wondering why the high launch would be a bad fit for someone with faster swing speeds - would the ball just spin up too much?  Go "too high" (shout out to Major League)?  How much different would the HL (at 31) be from, say, a MP225/223 at 32 (recognizing fully that those are not nearly as chunky - I'm just spit-balling here)?  

I'm guessing that my swing speed is sufficient to get the desired height from the HM/Pro model, and therefore that would be the better fit, I'm just not sure I need to be hitting a 28.5 degree 7-iron.  

Sincerely,
Confused in Santa Clarita

Driver - PXG 0811 XF - Gen 5, 9 degrees (+1 setting), Oban Devotion TR 65 04
3/5 Wood - Cobra LTDx Max (Blue Colorway)
Utility - Caley X01 Driving Iron (3 = 18*)
Irons (5-PW) - Caley 01T
Wedges (48, 52, 56, 60) - Indi Wedges FLX 48 / ATK 52, 56, 60
Putter - L.A.B. Directed Force 2.1 - 65*
Ball - Chrome Tour Triple-Track

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I did not realize the 923HM HL was the largest head with the most offset, wouldn't have guessed that, but that's an aside.

There are some YT videos starting to appear that express confusion re: the HL, a design that seems to contradict what we've all been told about GI/SGI lofts. For years we were all told lower swing speed players who needed more distance, that hot faced/low CG irons with stronger lofts gave them the best of both worlds. Now Mizuno is telling the same players that the answer to lower swing speeds is more loft? After years of all club makers insisting they had to use lower lofts to add distance and keep launch in the "right trajectory window" - now the same market needs more loft/higher launch with the exact same face tech?

It is interesting to watch some of the high swing speed YT reviewers experience with the HL - crazy peak heights and descent angles with distance.

Not looking for yet another loft jacking debate (I'm as tired of that as anyone), just an interesting turn of events. All the Hot Metals are the same tech, so it's interesting the biggest head has higher lofts???

Just one example 

 

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23 minutes ago, Middler said:

I did not realize the 923HM HL was the largest head with the most offset, wouldn't have guessed that, but that's an aside.

There are some YT videos starting to appear that express confusion re: the HL, a design that seems to contradict what we've all been told about GI/SGI lofts. For years we were all told lower swing speed players who needed more distance, that hot faced/low CG irons with stronger lofts gave them the best of both worlds. Now Mizuno is telling the same players that the answer to lower swing speeds is more loft? After years of all club makers insisting they had to use lower lofts to add distance and keep launch in the "right trajectory window" - now the same market needs more loft/higher launch with the exact same face tech?

It is interesting to watch some of the high swing speed YT reviewers experience with the HL - crazy peak heights and descent angles with distance.

Not looking for yet another loft jacking debate (I'm as tired of that as anyone), just an interesting turn of events. All the Hot Metals are the same tech, so it's interesting the biggest head has higher lofts???

Just one example 

 

IMHO the answer to your questions is ... "yes".  

Swings are like snowflakes.  What setup works for one, doesn't work for another.  I see value in stronger lofts and lower CG for some swings, and higher lofts with higher CG for others... and of course in the case of the HMHL - higher lofts with lower CG for another subset of swingers.  I can only imagine the towering shots produced by high swing speed players with that low CG... in fact there was a video of some tour players testing out the T200 last year that talks about that... 

I think the advantage of the HL is maximizing carry, where the stronger lofts obviously are intended to maximize total distance - especially for slower swing speeds.  The HMHL is an intriguing option, and I think it is one that will be met with skepticism early, but will probably find the way into many Amateur bags in the next year.  I have gone full circle on what I want from my irons, with my slowing swing speed with each passing week it seems.  I started wanting total distance with a low bore flight.  But if I'm trying to play to pins more, or even to the correct half of the green... I'm finding I would rather have confidence in my carry distance consistency, and the ability to stop the ball on the green... enter the HMHL as a viable option.

And here is the key... everything I said above is how I would approach a new set of irons for MY SNOWFLAKE.  

 

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1 hour ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

I have gone full circle on what I want from my irons, with my slowing swing speed with each passing week it seems.

Same here, never struggled with height or distance, but now that I am 68 yo - and finally discovered that if I take an extra 2 clubs  (yes 2!!!) and swing that much easier, my dispersion improves in ALL directions. I'm hitting more fairways and GIR, and scoring better. But as expected I have lost some stopping power. After 58 years using forged irons exclusively, for feel mostly, I may buy GI this time around and let the club do more for me. Fortunately I am still longer than most of my peers, so I have some options for now.

Too soon old, too late smart...

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