Mizuno JPX 923

[Billy-Bo-Jim-Bob]

Picked up on the comment from Mizuno that 923 will have slightly higher bounce and camber. That would likely work for me.....really well to enhance feel through the ball! I'm the steeper guy.

[Chris Taylor]

I'm a big Mizuno fan (JPX 800 Pro through JPX 921 HM Pro). But I'm not crazy about the incremental loft changes we're seeing lately. When I started gaming the 921s, it took a full season to adjust mentally to looking down at my 8 iron, but seeing a 7 iron loft. I wouldn't bother going through that frustrating experience again. But that's exactly what Mizuno did again with these new irons. This can't be good for customer experience. In fact, the rate of change is increasing! I don't get it.

JPX 919 ~ 9 iron = 40 degrees

JPX 921 ~ 9 iron = 39 degrees

JPX 923 ~ 9 iron = 37.5 degrees

[GolfSpy TCB]

2 hours ago, Middler said:

After 58 years using forged irons exclusively, for feel mostly, I may buy GI this time around and let the club do more for me.

I played blades forever, then switched to forged cavity backs last year, and I recently have been doing some personal testing with cast GI's and I have to say... my eyes are starting to open on them... 

[Middler]

3 hours ago, Chris Taylor said:

I'm a big Mizuno fan (JPX 800 Pro through JPX 921 HM Pro). But I'm not crazy about the incremental loft changes we're seeing lately. When I started gaming the 921s, it took a full season to adjust mentally to looking down at my 8 iron, but seeing a 7 iron loft. I wouldn't bother going through that frustrating experience again. But that's exactly what Mizuno did again with these new irons. This can't be good for customer experience. In fact, the rate of change is increasing! I don't get it.

JPX 919 ~ 9 iron = 40 degrees

JPX 921 ~ 9 iron = 39 degrees

JPX 923 ~ 9 iron = 37.5 degrees

I've always compared 7 irons, and that doesn't look quite as "crazy?"

JPX 919 ~ 7 iron = 30 degrees

JPX 921 ~ 7 iron = 29 degrees

JPX 923 ~ 7 iron = 28.5 degrees

Once you get up into near wedges, like the 9 iron, club makers are stuck as they're not going to market stronger loft wedges? So comparing 9 irons may not be the best measure? Just my guess.

And lofts didn't change at all from 921 to 923 for 4/5/6 irons so you have to look at more than one iron loft.

[ejgaudette]

7 hours ago, Golfspy_TCB said:

IMHO the answer to your questions is ... "yes".  

Swings are like snowflakes.  What setup works for one, doesn't work for another.  I see value in stronger lofts and lower CG for some swings, and higher lofts with higher CG for others... and of course in the case of the HMHL - higher lofts with lower CG for another subset of swingers.  I can only imagine the towering shots produced by high swing speed players with that low CG... in fact there was a video of some tour players testing out the T200 last year that talks about that... 

I think the advantage of the HL is maximizing carry, where the stronger lofts obviously are intended to maximize total distance - especially for slower swing speeds.  The HMHL is an intriguing option, and I think it is one that will be met with skepticism early, but will probably find the way into many Amateur bags in the next year.  I have gone full circle on what I want from my irons, with my slowing swing speed with each passing week it seems.  I started wanting total distance with a low bore flight.  But if I'm trying to play to pins more, or even to the correct half of the green... I'm finding I would rather have confidence in my carry distance consistency, and the ability to stop the ball on the green... enter the HMHL as a viable option.

And here is the key... everything I said above is how I would approach a new set of irons for MY SNOWFLAKE.  

 

I think we have also seen that in the SGI category like Ceveland HiBore and Cobra's Max line have kept the lofts high since those players with the slowest speeds don't get enough height even with the hotter faces and lower CGs. Ultimately I think it is just as you said, giving an option to those that can't get enough height on the HM or just want that height, now is an option without trying to end what is likely a tough club to move.

[Chris Taylor]

3 hours ago, Middler said:

Quote

I've always compared 7 irons, and that doesn't look quite as "crazy?"

Fair enough, though my first set of Mizuno was the JPX 800 Pro and that 7 iron was 33 degrees. Back then the 6 iron was 29 degrees. That said, the new 7 iron in the 923 set up is 28.5 degrees. So the new 7 iron is stronger than my old 6 iron. Granted, I'm not getting any younger, and so it's almost like my clubs are compensating for my age, but still it really feels weird knowing that I'm holding a 7 iron with the right length shaft, but looking down at a club, I see something stronger than a 6 iron. As such, it really did take me an entire golf season to make the adjustment. For what it's worth, I love my 921s. Best clubs I've ever gamed.

 

[Hook DeLoft]

For me, stronger lofts have meant having fewer irons and more wedges. I just picked up a set with a 27 degree 7 iron. I don’t even bother putting the 5 and 6 irons in the bag. I bought them used. If I was ordering a new set, I would just buy 5 irons. 

[Rickp]

On 9/27/2022 at 7:00 AM, Butterworth said:

Took me awhile to get used to 921s.even took 5i out of bag for a time. Would not trade for anything else. Was fitted and at 74 these will probably my last new irons. Oh by the way there gorgeous. Hdc.3.6

 

I’m 75 (very soon76) and looking serious at the 923.  Maybe my last iron purchase also but I’ve said that more than a few times.  
Looking at a fitting when local golf shop gets their fitting cart with the LH irons.

[dlow206]

I did the thing I should have done and went to a store and got fit. The fitter was actually pretty solid, had a good dialog. Hit the HM and HM HL the best. The added loft of the HL was good, definitely hit them higher, launch angle was higher and peak height was higher. 

I was swinging the 7 iron at about 85 mph after i was warmed up, so the fitter said speed is not my issue as it relates to launch angle and peak height. He was leaning towards standard Hot Metal but bent weak, 1 to 2 degrees. 

[Rickp]

2 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

I did the thing I should have done and went to a store and got fit. The fitter was actually pretty solid, had a good dialog. Hit the HM and HM HL the best. The added loft of the HL was good, definitely hit them higher, launch angle was higher and peak height was higher. 

I was swinging the 7 iron at about 85 mph after i was warmed up, so the fitter said speed is not my issue as it relates to launch angle and peak height. He was leaning towards standard Hot Metal but bent weak, 1 to 2 degrees. 

You’re a lot younger with faster swing speed than me.  I’m thinking the HL will be my iron if choice.  The only reason I’m going for a fitting will be the shaft options for an Ole Fart like myself.  My 2nd concern will be what irons I need 6 thru GW or even 7-GW.  My 6 hybrid has been pretty good.
I remember the day when my set was 3-PW!!! 
Don’t get old Grasshoppers!!!

[dlow206]

7 minutes ago, Rickp said:

You’re a lot younger with faster swing speed than me.  I’m thinking the HL will be my iron if choice.  The only reason I’m going for a fitting will be the shaft options for an Ole Fart like myself.  My 2nd concern will be what irons I need 6 thru GW or even 7-GW.  My 6 hybrid has been pretty good.
I remember the day when my set was 3-PW!!! 
Don’t get old Grasshoppers!!!

The HL irons are great, not just for slower swing speeds. I was closely considering the HL, but think I am going to go with the standard HM bent weak. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

On 9/27/2022 at 12:22 PM, Samsonite said:

Okay - here's my next question.  So, I'm definitely not the market for the HMHL - driver is between 99-101, typically.  But: why wouldn't someone like me look at the HL?  I mean, I don't mind the loft being more "traditional", it's something I've been looking at anyway, since I'd rather get consistent distance control than sometimes hitting a 185 yard 7-iron (Sim Max to the rescue?) and other times hitting it 170...  I guess I'm wondering why the high launch would be a bad fit for someone with faster swing speeds - would the ball just spin up too much?  Go "too high" (shout out to Major League)?  How much different would the HL (at 31) be from, say, a MP225/223 at 32 (recognizing fully that those are not nearly as chunky - I'm just spit-balling here)?  

I'm guessing that my swing speed is sufficient to get the desired height from the HM/Pro model, and therefore that would be the better fit, I'm just not sure I need to be hitting a 28.5 degree 7-iron.  

Sincerely,
Confused in Santa Clarita

You should watch the video Ian did with Chris Voshall on the entire lineup.   Ian won’t a 92 mph 7 iron swing speed was having fun with the HL.  But his results were very playable.  He loved the spin and stopping power he was getting. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

Took our fitting cart and Swing DNA out to fit myself for the HL.   That thing is really smart.  2 of the 3 irons it suggested for me are irons I have been fit into before. One of them just 4 months ago.   The third is a brand new shaft from KBS.   But it replaces one I was fit onto before.   It’s such an easy and accurate Device.  
 

i encourage anyone that is able to ask their fitter to use it, to do so.  We have used it for non Mizuno fittings …sush don’t tell

I really liked what o was seeing out of the HL.  So I ordered the 5-SW with the KBS.I love my vokeys.  But I’m curious what it’s 55\12 sand wedge will play like.  
 

here’s my DNA results. 
 

[yungkory]

 

6 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Took our fitting cart and Swing DNA out to fit myself for the HL.   That thing is really smart.  2 of the 3 irons it suggested for me are irons I have been fit into before. One of them just 4 months ago.   The third is a brand new shaft from KBS.   But it replaces one I was fit onto before.   It’s such an easy and accurate Device.  
 

i encourage anyone that is able to ask their fitter to use it, to do so.  We have used it for non Mizuno fittings …sush don’t tell

I really liked what o was seeing out of the HL.  So I ordered the 5-SW actually. I love my vokeys.  But I’m curious what it’s 55\12 sand wedge will play like.  
 

here’s my DNA results. 
 

Well did you go Modus or steelfiber?

[Golfspy_CG2]

47 minutes ago, yungkory said:

 

Well did you go Modus or steelfiber?

Yeah I forgot that detail.  Ha.  I went with the KBS.  I think a 95g weight is my wheelhouse.  All three had very similar results.  
 

And our Lead Instructor who was watching me for a 3nd set of eyes said they all looked good to him.  So it wasn’t worth the upcharge to SF and Modus being a few grams heavier and about 8 grams above my ideal I I felt the KBS would be best.   I also have payed the KBS Tour 90 in a few sets in the past as well as C Taper Lt…but that is up in the 110 range and that was 5 yesrs or so ago. 

[MattF]

That Optimizer ALWAYS shows Steelfibers as a fit, regardless of the fact that it feels like crap for the majority of people.

[Middler]

9 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Took our fitting cart and Swing DNA out to fit myself for the HL.   That thing is really smart.  2 of the 3 irons it suggested for me are irons I have been fit into before. One of them just 4 months ago.   The third is a brand new shaft from KBS.   But it replaces one I was fit onto before.   It’s such an easy and accurate Device.  
 

i encourage anyone that is able to ask their fitter to use it, to do so.  We have used it for non Mizuno fittings …sush don’t tell

I really liked what o was seeing out of the HL.  So I ordered the 5-SW with the KBS.I love my vokeys.  But I’m curious what it’s 55\12 sand wedge will play like.  

I’ve done the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer 3D twice, and I’d recommend it as well. Not a replacement for a quality fitting, but it will point most people in the right direction. You could buy any of the top three recommended shafts and not be too far from well fit.

Even if you may buy another brand of irons, I’d do the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer anyway.

[dlow206]

2 hours ago, MattF said:

That Optimizer ALWAYS shows Steelfibers as a fit, regardless of the fact that it feels like crap for the majority of people.

i've been playing Steelfibers for so long (almost a year is a long time in my book), that i almost forgot that shafts can have feel lol. 

[dlow206]

12 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Took our fitting cart and Swing DNA out to fit myself for the HL.   That thing is really smart.  2 of the 3 irons it suggested for me are irons I have been fit into before. One of them just 4 months ago.   The third is a brand new shaft from KBS.   But it replaces one I was fit onto before.   It’s such an easy and accurate Device.  
 

i encourage anyone that is able to ask their fitter to use it, to do so.  We have used it for non Mizuno fittings …sush don’t tell

I really liked what o was seeing out of the HL.  So I ordered the 5-SW with the KBS.I love my vokeys.  But I’m curious what it’s 55\12 sand wedge will play like.  
 

here’s my DNA results. 
 

From yesterday, my best shaft didn't end up being one that was in the top 3, but i would say it is similar in nature to the others in the top 3 (i.e. lightweight steel, mid to upper 90 grams, "higher" launching, etc.), so i would consider Mizuno getting it right for me. I didn't get recommended any of the graphite shafts like you had in the list above, but all the others listed for you were in about my top 5. 

[GolfSpy SAM]

13 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

You should watch the video Ian did with Chris Voshall on the entire lineup.   Ian won’t a 92 mph 7 iron swing speed was having fun with the HL.  But his results were very playable.  He loved the spin and stopping power he was getting. 

I did! I loved it - that's what has me a little confused, ultimately.  Seems like these things (other than being "chunky") seem to be pretty amazing - they launch it HIGH, stopping power for days, no real distance drop-off (even given the weaker lofts) - I guess I'm just wondering why a mid-handicapper (I mean, I'm a 12 - does that count as "mid") wouldn't think about putting these things in the bag.  I do understand if you were playing in a lot of windy conditions they may not be the best option - I guess there really is a thing with "too high" being a problem.  

The "look" of the HM Pro definitely has me intrigued - especially if bent slightly weaker (say, 30 degree 7-iron) - but I'm in Sim Max irons now, so I'm guessing the "chunk" of the HL's wouldn't be any kind of shock to my system, lol.

 

[Golfspy_CG2]

8 hours ago, MattF said:

That Optimizer ALWAYS shows Steelfibers as a fit, regardless of the fact that it feels like crap for the majority of people.

Not in our case,it rarely comes up. We get recoil a lot.  I actually like the feel of it, it fits my aggressive transition which quickly becomes "moderate" speed

 

[Golfspy_CG2]

7 hours ago, Middler said:

I’ve done the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer 3D twice, and I’d recommend it as well. Not a replacement for a quality fitting, but it will point most people in the right direction. You could buy any of the top three recommended shafts and not be too far from well fit.

Even if you may buy another brand of irons, I’d do the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer anyway.

Yeah, correct.  It's not meant by any means to repalce a quality fitting.  It's actually the starting point in a quality fitting, well starting after the fitter has done an interview with the palyer to get a feel for his game etc.  It saves us from "guessing" which of the 40 or so shafts on hand might work.  Often times if a player has been fit before, one of the choices will be something he's played and the others may be ones he heard about or wondered about. 

 

[Middler]

8 hours ago, MattF said:

That Optimizer ALWAYS shows Steelfibers as a fit, regardless of the fact that it feels like crap for the majority of people.

Hasn’t come up in either session I had with Shaft Optimizer and a predecessor. In my case the Recoil 95 was the first graphite shaft that came back, though well down the list. I doubt “ALWAYS” or even often is true, where did you get that?

[MattF]

15 hours ago, Middler said:

Hasn’t come up in either session I had with Shaft Optimizer and a predecessor. In my case the Recoil 95 was the first graphite shaft that came back, though well down the list. I doubt “ALWAYS” or even often is true, where did you get that?

The Mizuno rep for NEO that fitted me said he sees it all the time and wouldn't recommend it for anyone. It was the first shaft listed for me when we did my fitting.

[Hook DeLoft]

I would like to see one or two more offerings in light weight (50 to 75g) graphite for us old farts. 

[dlow206]

4 hours ago, Hook DeLoft said:

I would like to see one or two more offerings in light weight (50 to 75g) graphite for us old farts. 

they have UST MAMIYA RECOIL ESX GRAPHITE

[Middler]

6 hours ago, Hook DeLoft said:

I would like to see one or two more offerings in light weight (50 to 75g) graphite for us old farts. 

Like these?

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

On 9/29/2022 at 7:09 AM, MattF said:

That Optimizer ALWAYS shows Steelfibers as a fit, regardless of the fact that it feels like crap for the majority of people.

It’s why hitting the shafts are a must and even more so a fitting. The tool is a starting point to narrow down potential shafts.

[Golfspy_CG2]

6 hours ago, MattF said:

The Mizuno rep for NEO that fitted me said he sees it all the time and wouldn't recommend it for anyone. It was the first shaft listed for me when we did my fitting.

Curious why he said he never Recommends it.   I have them in my OXf and they are great I always steered away from them thinking they were too “stout” “boardy” or “harsh” for me.  But the results of them in my PXG fitting were amazing in terms of dispersion and differential.    I think like any shaft it’s important to get weight correct.  In the right weight for a golfer. I think it’s a great option.  Albeit an expensive one. 

[Hook DeLoft]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

Like these?

 

I am aware of those.  I would like to see a couple of other choices.  Perhaps KBS and MMT.