Putting Perception vs Putting Reality

[Micah T]

My perception of my putting is that it’s been very poor lately. I’ve been grinding on it during my practice, but it “feels” like I’m getting worse: making more 3 putts, missing birdie putts, etc. But Arccos says I’m hitting 11.8 greens per round recently. Is my “poor” putting just a result of me hitting more greens? Recently I’m averaging  almost 12 GIR per round, last year it was 9.7 GIR per round. Is me hitting more greens warping my perception? Or is my putting dooming good rounds? SG stats stats from my round today:

 

[golferguy2727]

That has been my experience as well - if you look at first putt length, you may see more GIRs are causing longer first putts, which is natural I think, and therefore more putts since its normally harder to sink longer putts.  I remember an article from the past that suggests including "near greens" in regulation for your stats  - for example on fringe or on fairway short of green - basically when you can get a putter on the ball.  When doing so the data normalizes putting performance a bit more instead of letting fringe "chip/putts" lower the putting stats

Putts per Green vs Putts per GIR may also show similar information trends

[RickyBobby_PR]

Or could be hitting more greens is exposing the weakness of your putting and not necessarily making it worse. Need to look at proximity to hole and first putt length.

If you are having more 3 putts then your speed and/or line are off on your first causing the second to be harder. 

[Micah T]

6 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Or could be hitting more greens is exposing the weakness of your putting and not necessarily making it worse. Need to look at proximity to hole and first putt length.

If you are having more 3 putts then your speed and/or line are off on your first causing the second to be harder. 

This is basically how I feel: I’m getting exposed on long putts.

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 hours ago, Micah T said:

This is basically how I feel: I’m getting exposed on long putts.

Looks that way

[DaveP043]

In looking at your Strokes Gained putting and your make percentages, your real shortcoming is in the 6 to 9 foot range.  Where you should be expected to make nearly half of those, you're making none.  I think if you can get that range closer to your goal, your putting will be about right for your handicap level.

[Micah T]

13 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

In looking at your Strokes Gained putting and your make percentages, your real shortcoming is in the 6 to 9 foot range.  Where you should be expected to make nearly half of those, you're making none.  I think if you can get that range closer to your goal, your putting will be about right for your handicap level.

This is where my focus at practice has been: I feel like this range are where all my missed birdie putts are. Makes me think its mental and not technique . I’m gaining strokes from 15-24 ft, and making my fair share from 10-14 ft.

[DaveP043]

9 hours ago, Micah T said:

This is where my focus at practice has been: I feel like this range are where all my missed birdie putts are. Makes me think its mental and not technique . I’m gaining strokes from 15-24 ft, and making my fair share from 10-14 ft.

That's also the range where a mediocre 50-footer might leave you, so it might be part of the 3-putt "issue".  Next step will be to take notes on where and how you miss.  Did you hit your line, did you get the read right, did you get the speed right?  Did you miss left more, or right more?  

[Micah T]

14 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

That's also the range where a mediocre 50-footer might leave you, so it might be part of the 3-putt "issue".  Next step will be to take notes on where and how you miss.  Did you hit your line, did you get the read right, did you get the speed right?  Did you miss left more, or right more?  

I’m noticing my eagle putts are downright timid and my missed birdie putts are always short: seemingly poor contact/strike but also could be poor speed. 

[ryan.mzzz]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:15 PM, Micah T said:

My perception of my putting is that it’s been very poor lately. I’ve been grinding on it during my practice, but it “feels” like I’m getting worse: making more 3 putts, missing birdie putts, etc. But Arccos says I’m hitting 11.8 greens per round recently. Is my “poor” putting just a result of me hitting more greens? Recently I’m averaging  almost 12 GIR per round, last year it was 9.7 GIR per round. Is me hitting more greens warping my perception? Or is my putting dooming good rounds? SG stats stats from my round today:

 

before I discovered Decade, I would nervous/psych myself out/overthink my way to plenty of 3 and 4 putts. for me, the decade strategy for putting, most importantly, made me far less hard on myself. It’s not that i’m a better putter now, but I worry and stress a lot less, which, over time allowed my confidence to grow and my scoring to improve. golf is far more fun for me now since I’m not cussing myself out every other green. your mileage may vary. 

Edited August 26, 2022 by ryan.mzzz

[cnosil]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:15 PM, Micah T said:

My perception of my putting is that it’s been very poor lately. I’ve been grinding on it during my practice, but it “feels” like I’m getting worse: making more 3 putts, missing birdie putts, etc. But Arccos says I’m hitting 11.8 greens per round recently. Is my “poor” putting just a result of me hitting more greens? Recently I’m averaging  almost 12 GIR per round, last year it was 9.7 GIR per round. Is me hitting more greens warping my perception? Or is my putting dooming good rounds? SG stats stats from my round today:

 

 

what do your season numbers indicate or last few rounds since you are hitting more greens recently? I would expect putts and average distance to the hole increase when you hit more greens.  I’d probably focus on the chart that shows make percentage from the various distances to see where your weakness lies. 

 

[DaveP043]

10 hours ago, Micah T said:

I’m noticing my eagle putts are downright timid and my missed birdie putts are always short: seemingly poor contact/strike but also could be poor speed. 

There you go, now you have something specific to practice.  A young player at my home club was a quarterfinalist at the US Am last week, the big underdog from a D-III university.  I saw him on the practice green a few days before he left for the competition, using a version of the gate drill.  A tee at either end of the putter when addressing it, hitting putt after putt after putt from about 4 feet.  When asked why, this +5 handicapper said his contact was a bit off, he needed to improve it.  He said when he had started using the drill, he needed a bit of space for the tees, maybe 1/4" on each end of the putter.  Now he's got maybe a millimeter to each end.  Just one suggestion that could help you have more consistent contact.

This could also be a matter of "attitude".  You can't be trying to drip the ball in the hole from 6 or 8 feet, you HAVE to hit it past.  Every time, nearly.  So yes, practice speed control too, make sure you get every putt past the hole.  This comes from Broadie's work.  He found that top professionals, from "long range" had the center of their putting pattern right at the hole.  Logical, from long range you're trying to 2-putt every time, when you make one its a bonus.  from "makeable" range, the center of their pattern shifted to a foot or two past the hole.  Logical as well, a putt a bit long is a miss, a putt left short is a missed opportunity.

[Micah T]

13 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

This could also be a matter of "attitude".  You can't be trying to drip the ball in the hole from 6 or 8 feet, you HAVE to hit it past.  Every time, nearly.  So yes, practice speed control too, make sure you get every putt past the hole.  This comes from Broadie's work.  He found that top professionals, from "long range" had the center of their putting pattern right at the hole.  Logical, from long range you're trying to 2-putt every time, when you make one its a bonus.  from "makeable" range, the center of their pattern shifted to a foot or two past the hole.  Logical as well, a putt a bit long is a miss, a putt left short is a missed opportunity.

You’ve diagnosed me perfectly: my putts drip into the hole. I hole a lot of putts from the high breaking side, and tend to play break even inside of 3 ft. 

[Micah T]

14 hours ago, cnosil said:

what do your season numbers indicate or last few rounds since you are hitting more greens recently? I would expect putts and average distance to the hole increase when you hit more greens.  I’d probably focus on the chart that shows make percentage from the various distances to see where your weakness lies. 

 

I’m avg almost 2 more putts per round in my last 10 rounds vs my last 50. Surprisingly, I’m actually avg 1 ft closer to the hole on gir approaches my last 10 rounds, and 5 ft closer on all approaches.

[Micah T]

Diving into my numbers, it looks like I’ve always been deficient in the 6-9 ft range, but recently it’s been worse. I was intrigued to see my % increase from 10-14 and 15-24 ft. But it seems like I’m worse from farther out recently too.

[Micah T]

My lag putting has gotten worse too as of late, my 3 putt likelihood has really climbed the last 5 rounds.

[golferguy2727]

One of the very interesting aspects to this thread is how valuable data can become in understanding areas in which improvement is necessary. I’ve had similar issues as Micha T - and in the same range as shown through data. Working with my coach, we focused on why my 16’-20’ range was so much better than my 6’-9’ range. From that we did video of putts  in the ranges and spent time on a SAM putting analysis tool. Long story, short, my stroke looked rigid  and inconsistent in this 6-9’ range as compared to all other ranges. So we focused purely on form and tempo and I was able to get the trouble range closer to what I should expect. But ultimately it seemed like a mental root cause - it felt like I should be making those 6-9 feet putts and I was trying so hard it became a different stroke altogether. Without the data I might still be chasing the solution.

 

thanks for your post Micah T 

Edited August 27, 2022 by golferguy2727
Typo

[MDGolfHacker]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:04 PM, Micah T said:

This is basically how I feel: I’m getting exposed on long putts.

I would agree that hitting more greens forces putts you normally wouldn't hit. Best way to fix this is to go practice long and medium distance lag putting. When I putt, I vary where I put from and what direction to get a feel for distance and line. Once you get that ingrained, you'll find your putting stats will improve!

 

MdGolfHacker 

[Middler]

On 8/23/2022 at 1:12 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Or could be hitting more greens is exposing the weakness of your putting and not necessarily making it worse. Need to look at proximity to hole and first putt length.

If you are having more 3 putts then your speed and/or line are off on your first causing the second to be harder. 

This is why I don’t put a lot of stock in putts/round. The more greens I miss, the closer my first putt will be more often than not. I look at FW, GIR and putts for each round but none of them are perfect indicators of anything.

And though it may not apply to all, I play one of dozen or more different courses every Wednesday. Some have small greens, some large. Some subtle breaks, some with wild contours. Some fast, some slow and everything in between - some times I adapt quickly, sometimes not at all. All can dramatically affect # of putts.

[chisag]

14 hours ago, Micah T said:

You’ve diagnosed me perfectly: my putts drip into the hole. I hole a lot of putts from the high breaking side, and tend to play break even inside of 3 ft. 

 

... Such a tricky subject and everyone is different. I too am a die in the hole putter and it served me well over the years playing Bent grass greens. I made many more putts that would not have dropped in the side with more speed than putts that came up short and would have fallen with more speed. But that turned into the opposite scenario when I moved to Phoenix and started playing Bermuda greens. I have had to force myself to play makable putts in the under 10 foot range with more speed.

... And other than a difficult long putt dealing with severe sloping or tiers a mid-low index player just shouldn't 3 putt. Playing a little more break so that your putt dies falling toward the hole and not away from it is a great key. But I have seen this too many times, focusing on the line and then executing the putt with poor speed. I believe the opposite of short putting past the hole is necessary for long putts because running the ball past the hole is a recipe for 3 putting. I told most of my students with putts over 10 feet, get your line then only concentrate on speed. Yes, completely forget about the line because your brain already knows it once you have seen it and just concentrate on the speed needed to get the ball to die at the hole. It is a question of intent not results, you aren't going to make most long putts so the line is irrelevant and if you have excellent speed you will have a tap in. That said you want to try and make every putt and that should be your focus even knowing you probably won't. I hate the idea of a 3' circle because if you miss your target by 2', you are left with a 5 footer. If your target is the hole and you miss by 2' you have a 2 footer left. 

... I think the three most important aspects of putting are speed, speed and speed. If you have a 30 foot birdie putt and hit your line with too little or too much speed you can be 5' short or long putting pressure on your par putt. But if you have great speed and miss your line by more than a little missing by a full 2' in either direction you have a 2 footer for par. So next time you practice putting think only about speed and your putt is judged to be successful if it ends up 1 foot away from the hole or closer. I would challenge everyone to go to a practice green, even before the round and not even look at the line, just concentrate on speed and I will guarantee you will be close to the hole and even make some of them. Just take a glance at the putt which takes in the line without concentrating on it, and then think about the speed to get to the hole. So a putt looks like it breaks several feet to the left but exactly how much is irrelevant as you just think about the speed to the hole and putt with that speed in mind. Most are going to be very surprised by the results. My son asked how can you make a putt if you don't know the exact line? Since he is a big hiker I asked him if he looks where he puts each step or does he trust his brain has seen the rocks, roots and dips/rises on the path and he looks ahead because his brain has already given his feet the information where to step. Same for putting, once your brain has taken in the line it has already given the body the line information and since it can only concentrate on one thing at a time, make that speed. 

[ryan.mzzz]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... Such a tricky subject and everyone is different. I too am a die in the hole putter and it served me well over the years playing Bent grass greens. I made many more putts that would not have dropped in the side with more speed than putts that came up short and would have fallen with more speed. But that turned into the opposite scenario when I moved to Phoenix and started playing Bermuda greens. I have had to force myself to play makable putts in the under 10 foot range with more speed.

... And other than a difficult long putt dealing with severe sloping or tiers a mid-low index player just shouldn't 3 putt. Playing a little more break so that your putt dies falling toward the hole and not away from it is a great key. But I have seen this too many times, focusing on the line and then executing the putt with poor speed. I believe the opposite of short putting past the hole is necessary for long putts because running the ball past the hole is a recipe for 3 putting. I told most of my students with putts over 10 feet, get your line then only concentrate on speed. Yes, completely forget about the line because your brain already knows it once you have seen it and just concentrate on the speed needed to get the ball to die at the hole. It is a question of intent not results, you aren't going to make most long putts so the line is irrelevant and if you have excellent speed you will have a tap in. That said you want to try and make every putt and that should be your focus even knowing you probably won't. I hate the idea of a 3' circle because if you miss your target by 2', you are left with a 5 footer. If your target is the hole and you miss by 2' you have a 2 footer left. 

... I think the three most important aspects of putting are speed, speed and speed. If you have a 30 foot birdie putt and hit your line with too little or too much speed you can be 5' short or long putting pressure on your par putt. But if you have great speed and miss your line by more than a little missing by a full 2' in either direction you have a 2 footer for par. So next time you practice putting think only about speed and your putt is judged to be successful if it ends up 1 foot away from the hole or closer. I would challenge everyone to go to a practice green, even before the round and not even look at the line, just concentrate on speed and I will guarantee you will be close to the hole and even make some of them. Just take a glance at the putt which takes in the line without concentrating on it, and then think about the speed to get to the hole. So a putt looks like it breaks several feet to the left but exactly how much is irrelevant as you just think about the speed to the hole and putt with that speed in mind. Most are going to be very surprised by the results. My son asked how can you make a putt if you don't know the exact line? Since he is a big hiker I asked him if he looks where he puts each step or does he trust his brain has seen the rocks, roots and dips/rises on the path and he looks ahead because his brain has already given his feet the information where to step. Same for putting, once your brain has taken in the line it has already given the body the line information and since it can only concentrate on one thing at a time, make that speed. 

thank you for typing that out. you’re a great communicator! the only difference with my thinking that i’ll note is that when I first heard the idea of “stop trying to make putts,” it changed my world. All of a sudden the focus went from trying to drain one every time to trying to get the best score I can with my abilities. I can’t force a putt to drop, but I can get almost every putt into a 4 foot radius around the hole, by any means necessary. Then I’m left with a putt I should make. instead of one that statistically, I should miss. When I started to focus on maximizing my scoring rather than individual shots, something clicked in my brain. I manage my emotions so much better now, which puts me in position to keep a good mindset the whole time i’m out there, which saves mental and physical energy I can use to read greens, strategize, and execute. I know I screw up a good percentage of the time, still, but I just don’t care. I get excited in a good way every time I step on a green.

As a matter of fact, I just now realized what’s going on in my head. In school, if I was prepared for a test, I couldn’t wait to take it, and I couldn’t wait to get my grade back from the teacher. If I didn’t prepare, I would be scared of the test, and scared/anxious over the result. I don’t think i’m any more skilled than in the past, but my success has increased, in terms of scoring. Having a better mindset has improved every part of my game.

Edited August 27, 2022 by ryan.mzzz
clarity

[chisag]

1 hour ago, ryan.mzzz said:

the only difference with my thinking that i’ll note is that when I first heard the idea of “stop trying to make putts,” it changed my world.

 

... Thanks and we see the same thing on the tee. Water right and woods left is absolutely no different than an opening hole with a wide open fairway and no trouble at all. The target is exactly the same. Yet, instead of a freely swung driver and trusting you will find the fairway or not, so many try and steer the ball away from trouble creating tension and a poor drive. I am not saying it is easy, but concentrating on the execution and not the results is the only way to play this game at a high level. My favorite is Rory because he just swings freely with almost reckless abandon whether it is a wide fairway or narrow landing strip. Obviously we can't copy Rory's swing or his power but we can copy his freedom swinging the club. 

... " I get excited in a good way every time I step on a green."   I really love that! 

[Micah T]

Good stuff here @chisag @ryan.mzzz @Middler I went a completely different route with my practice this week.  I decided my issue was mental, and didn’t practice putting all week. Not a single putt: then went to #2 or #3 most difficult course in my rota(Mtn Dell GC) 

 

And shot even par 71 with 31 putts. 2 -3 putts and 7-1 putts. 6 bogeys, 4 birdies and 1 eagle.

Golf is weird
 

[ryan.mzzz]

17 hours ago, Micah T said:

Good stuff here @chisag @ryan.mzzz @Middler I went a completely different route with my practice this week.  I decided my issue was mental, and didn’t practice putting all week. Not a single putt: then went to #2 or #3 most difficult course in my rota(Mtn Dell GC) 

 

And shot even par 71 with 31 putts. 2 -3 putts and 7-1 putts. 6 bogeys, 4 birdies and 1 eagle.

Golf is weird
 

gorgeous course! with moose! by your putting numbers it looks like they had the greens in great shape for you as well.