Long Term Review: Sub70 659 TC Raw

[GolfSpy_APH]

32 minutes ago, tommc23 said:

I was looking at it then realized partway through that this was the case. It’s not a huge difference but it is a difference

Yeah it's basically 10% so not that difficult, but certainly is an adjustment. I've slowly for me use to it, but it's made learning distances for the new irons tricky because I'm also getting use to another form of numbers/standards.

[boylerz1]

Those look awesome!

[tucker_jct]

While running the conversions on the carry distance -  noticed that for estimation,   the overall distance is close to the yards of carry. 

 5 iron average carry =  172m = 188.1 yds ;   total distance of 186m         6 iron average carry 156m = 170 yds;   total distance = 167m 

 

[tommc23]

2 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Yeah it's basically 10% so not that difficult, but certainly is an adjustment. I've slowly for me use to it, but it's made learning distances for the new irons tricky because I'm also getting use to another form of numbers/standards.

Well as you get used to everything metric it will get easier. As long as you know where they land that’s all that matters

[GolfSpy_APH]

Updated photo of the 5b iron with lead tape. Only a couple grams but made a world of difference in launch and forgiveness.

 

[Jnoble89]

Veering slightly off topic but strongly considering a fitting with Sub70 when I decide to pull the trigger on a new irons set as I live about 2 hours from their headquarters in Illinois. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

18 minutes ago, Jnoble89 said:

Veering slightly off topic but strongly considering a fitting with Sub70 when I decide to pull the trigger on a new irons set as I live about 2 hours from their headquarters in Illinois. 

Definitely check them out. I've been really impressed with the TC so far! 

[Jnoble89]

Just now, GolfSpy_APH said:

Definitely check them out. I've been really impressed with the TC so far! 

Already scheduled myself for an irons/wedges fitting with TaylorMade at my local club in May 2023 haha, so I figure after that I can check in with Sub70 to get a nice head to head comparison 

[TR1PTIK]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:44 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

Updated photo of the 5b iron with lead tape. Only a couple grams but made a world of difference in launch and forgiveness.

Do you think the CB version with pocket cavity would have accomplished the same? Just curious as I'd be torn between the TC and CB - leaning toward CB for the pocket cavity in the long irons though.

Otherwise, how are you getting along now that you've had time to experience them on the course?

[GolfSpy_APH]

22 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Do you think the CB version with pocket cavity would have accomplished the same? Just curious as I'd be torn between the TC and CB - leaning toward CB for the pocket cavity in the long irons though.

Otherwise, how are you getting along now that you've had time to experience them on the course?

I guess the CB version could have been an option, but cleaning the pocket would have driven me crazy! In all seriousness though I maybe should have gone CB based on how my game is, but know I have the iron potential for the TC. Today was a much better day overall. Had a string of pars, a birdie and the bad holes were nothing to do with the irons, but my driver. 

I keep coming back to how good they feel. I know I said it before, but they don't feel super soft to me, but a powerful solid feeling. 

The best I have been hitting them has been the most recent week and after the gapping/numbers session and truly knowing my numbers more spot on has certainly helped a lot as well. I have zero regrets and am really happy with how they perform. 

Maybe if I had the chance to hit them all in person I would have gone for some split set combo, but I didn't have that option and there is nothing wrong with them. Anything that makes the shot not go as intended is user error. 

[GolfSpy_APH]

Update time!

Played the other day and posted in the how did you play thread, but wanted to give a better insight into the Approach wedge or 50* it is so so versatile. I tried to make an effort to use it a bit more around the greens and man was it fun. I also used the 9 for a more bump and run style chip and they really inspire confidence. The trajectory and spin on them are consistent and stable which allows me to be more aggressive with my chips and really go for it. 

I also had a beautiful 7 iron layup that was one of the best hits I've had. Add in a couple 5 irons off the tee on some of the tricky/placement holes and these irons are starting to really come into their own with my game. 

Still love the feel, still love the flight and they continue to change colors a bit... not as quickly as I had thought, but still getting a bit more dull. 

Finally I get so many comments on them. The one guy was't a fan of the raw finish as he did not love that new irons could look so old, but the other guy I played with raved about them. Overall they get a lot of looks and a lot of questions which is fun as they are really a unknown brand here!

[Lacassem]

On 9/7/2022 at 5:02 PM, GolfSpy_APH said:

Haven't had a chance to dice into the data too much but here were the numbers from today.

Big thanks to the nicest golf shop around Golfers Paradise Dietikon! 

I did take a few bad shots out, however the swing felt really good!

Why isn’t it it KMH??!! 

[fixyurdivot]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:44 AM, GolfSpy_APH said:

Updated photo of the 5b iron with lead tape. Only a couple grams but made a world of difference in launch and forgiveness.

 

OMG... I need to put this image out of my head, fast!! 

Okay, okay, suffice to say you have successfully achieved the desired effect.  So tell me about their forgiveness in play.  How would you compare them to the PING's?

[GolfSpy_APH]

I'll have another update later on today, but in practice I have really been finding a groove with these recently and with that truly falling more in love them more on and more. I also appreciate all those who have reached out to me privately to ask questions as this is exactly why I am doing this review. To get a good review out there from start to finish and see how they not only perform, but also how they wear and change over time.

A few things I should add Sub70 was smart in this 659 series and came out with MB (muscle back) TC (Tour Cavity which is what I got) and CB (Cavity Back) These were meant to be able to be blended and suite a great variety of handicaps. I am at at 9, however with a big ole * as I went through 2 years of playing very little here in Switzerland. This year I certainly made a extra effort to play more and as expected rounds and holes have fluctuated a lot. Had a couple great rounds in low 80s and a few in the 90s. I am working my way back and with a membership next season I hope to get back to my normal which is consistently low 80s and breaking into the 70s on a fairly regular basis. 

With that I think the CB is a iron that will certainly fit a lot. It has a similar looks and characteristics to the TC, but a longer blade length. Hindsight, maybe these are what I should have gone with? However I wanted to point out these and maybe they will be the next Monday Gratuitous Photo Thread? Because they really are a stellar looking club. I learned a while back the MB are not for me, kinda plain and simple. Even in my wedges I use the Ping Glide which are a cavity backish wedge. 

I think Sub70 did a great job with these irons and although maybe a thinner top line would suit my eye a little more I can't say it is something that I really am going to be too picky about (the 9 does look thicker then the others). Either way I think this is a combo set that can fit a great range of golfers and with many great options for shafts, finishes and more I definitely encourage anyone in the market for new irons to check these out. 

[Vegan_Golfer_PNW]

Love the update. I keep building sets of these on their website. One day I’ll pull the trigger maybe. 

[hartrick11]

I have never had a set of raw anything before; these look awesome and are making me second guess that... Since you referred to your prior i210s, I wonder if you could comment/share photos (if you have them), on blade length/topline/offset/forgiveness comparisons between the two. i210 has been around so long that it is a great one to compare against since most people are very familiar with shaping/look/performance etc.

My complete guess from never having hit these before is that the CB 4-5, TC 6-W would be the most equivalent to the i210 makeup in size/performance/forgiveness - how close am I?!

[GolfSpy_APH]

35 minutes ago, hartrick11 said:

I have never had a set of raw anything before; these look awesome and are making me second guess that... Since you referred to your prior i210s, I wonder if you could comment/share photos (if you have them), on blade length/topline/offset/forgiveness comparisons between the two. i210 has been around so long that it is a great one to compare against since most people are very familiar with shaping/look/performance etc.

My complete guess from never having hit these before is that the CB 4-5, TC 6-W would be the most equivalent to the i210 makeup in size/performance/forgiveness - how close am I?!

I think the CB as a whole are closer to the i210 in blade length and overall shape. However the top line on the i210 definitely seemed thinner. Not a knock on the TC, but definitely on the thicker side then what I would have expected. 

I would love to do some comparison, however the i210 set is in the hands of another friend, as they were a tested club I wanted to pass them along. He is going to give them a try till the end of the season so I don't have them in hand to take those photos. 

I do have a forged tec 2016 4 iron and fly z pro irons that I can do comparisons, but the fly z are essentially blades.

[GolfSpy_APH]

Some strike patterns for all of you on the 8, 9 and wedge. The 7 and 6 are basically the same but they didn't show up on camera very well so I didn't post and the 5 strikes were a touch on the low side. 

[fixyurdivot]

3 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Some strike patterns for all of you on the 8, 9 and wedge. The 7 and 6 are basically the same but they didn't show up on camera very well so I didn't post and the 5 strikes were a touch on the low side. 

Jamie.  If this is a contest to see who can make a brand new set of clubs look "most worn the soonest", you won... wasn't even a contest .  So strike patterns are cool but are they going where you want them too, consistently?

[GolfSpy_APH]

6 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Jamie.  If this is a contest to see who can make a brand new set of clubs look "most worn the soonest", you won... wasn't even a contest .  So strike patterns are cool but are they going where you want them too, consistently?

The nice part about the raw is the way it changes and looks older. The strike marks are all the cover scuffs from range balls and after the clean are all gone. 

I think I mentioned it up top, but the last 4 or so sessions/round things have really turned a corner with the irons. Strikes are much much better and I feel as though I am actually playing good golf again. The birdie on 18 last round was a prime example of it. It is 145 (ish) forced carry. I'm just going to pull up the the strokesaver of the hole and post it. 

Keep in mind this is all in meters not yards. So this round I played from the Yellows and plan to continue to until I break 80 and then I will move back. I had my first round there from the Whites and it isn't too far, but certainly isn't either and the extra distance makes some holes a lot harder, while others maybe easier given my length and where the bunkers are/landing zones. 
http://www.strokesaver.ch/uebersicht-der-ausgaben/golfpark-otelfingen.html For those intersted this is the whole strokesaver book. All the courses here have them (they also all run the same tee time program so one account for all which is awesome). 

I definitely feel the back 9 is much harder then the front 9. The first 2 holes on the front are very getable with a good par 5 thats real danger is the OB all down the left hand side. A reasonable par 4 on 4 and another par 5 for 5. 6 and 7 run side by side are not walks in the park with some tricky greenside bunkers, but still not the hardest in the world. 8 is rated really hard as it is a dog leg left and you need the distance to open up a view to the green, with hazard all down the left so no cheating the corner. It is also a forced carry over to the green, however I have normaly done very well on this hole. 9 is hard par 3 guarded by hazard all down the left and massive bunker on the right. 10 is maybe my favorite hole, hard to explain why but so many options off the tee and big bunker staring at you cutting down the landing zone and making you decide to play short or take on that risk. We moving in another par 5 on 11, which is a very getable hole again. 12 is tough! Par 4 with big dog leg right and again so many options off the tee, but hazard all down the right off the tee, which switches to the left for the approach. Then we get into the portion of the course I can't really say I like. 13 is a long par 4 which doesn't have any great character to it in my opinion. 14 is a long downhill par 3 which is a good challenge and not a bad hole. 15 a par 5 that has hazard basically all down the right and OB left with a big bunker again staring at you for the tee shot. From the yellows I may be able to carry it, but going in it is a instant bogey or worse. 16 I am coming around on. Similar setup as most, big bunker there, but this one I know I can carry with as the challenge is in the approach shot. Bunkers left and right with a angled green left the right. 17 I really like. OB all left and some hazard on the right, but a fairly open view from the tee. A massive tower also helps with lining yourself up on the tee. The approach is again tough with bunkers around the green, but for whatever reason this one just suits my eye and then well 18 which is up top!