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Putter Fitting: I Need Some Convincing!


stuka44
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Some Background!  I am 56, my handicap is likely more accurately a 13-15 at this point, and I have never had a golf lesson.  I tried to have an iron fitting 3 years ago, and I can't hit off a mat, it would have appeared that I had never held a golf club, at that iron fitting.  Now I have read many a post on this site with many eluding to  the benefits of a Putter Fitting!  Now I'm pretty sure I could handle a Putter fitting without skulling, or grounding any balls into the screen.

As the title indicates,    I am not  "Anti" putter fitting, but I have my concerns as to how much benefit I could realistically expect. For clarity I do not believe I am a bad putter. I am aware like Dave P, points out that pros make 50/50 from 8 feet.  My 50/50 is 6 feet.  I lag putt pretty well and don't 3 putt excesively. I believe my make percentages at various distances are acceptable when compared to those of the pros.   While cost isn't a prohibition, I have explored Club Champion and others and it seems that all of the putter brands these places want to fit you into are $300 + dollar putters.  I bought my Ping Scottsdale Wolverine in circa 2013-14 for around $110(and I like it and have no problem with it).  If it can really help I will spend the money.  Or is this a case of I have to "believe" that a putter fitting will help me, or perceive a problem to be corrected in my putting. And I don't know if I arc the putter, I believe I'm more of straight back and through, honestly its not something I have or ever will consider, I just line up the putt and hit it, trying to repeat my motion over and over again.

I am open to  questions about my game/putting to clarify things,  and comments to help me see if a putter fitting will help me.  I guess I'm looking to see if there is anyone like me, who is(or believes they are) a decent putter, and doesn't perceive any real problems with their putting, who had a fitting and experienced a revalation, about how much better they were after the fitting.

Thanks in Advance!

 

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Driver: Cobra King Speedzone

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  :bridgestone-small: E12 Soft Yellow 

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Like any fitting it will only be as good as the fitter as well as the communication between you and the fitter.

Also like any fitting it will tell you what’s going on with your stroke and what type of putter fits your swing(blade, mid mallet, mallet)

it will tell you what weight you need, lie and loft.

You may find out that what you are playing works fine with your stroke and you don’t have to change anything.

You also don’t have to buy from them and can use your fitting to find a putter with those specs elsewhere

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Nothing wrong with your Ping Scottsdale Wolverine... if it fits you.  It's a great putter.  

Not sure why you think you need a putter fitting, but maybe you just want to give it a try.  Most players consider a fitting if they have a specific issue; sounds like your putting game is pretty solid.

I can pretty much tell if a putter I try in a store is right for me or not within a couple of strokes.  Since I was in Scottsdale anyway, I went to Ping HQ since the fitting was free.   It told me what stroke type, length, lie angle, loft, and weight of putter head worked best for my stroke.  I was an reasonable putter before I went, but I loved the feel of the Ping Sigma G Doon putter with a counterbalanced shaft and it did improve my putting.

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15 hours ago, stuka44 said:

but I have my concerns as to how much benefit I could realistically expect. For clarity I do not believe I am a bad putter.

 My 50/50 is 6 feet.  I lag putt pretty well and don't 3 putt excesively. I believe my make percentages at various distances are acceptable when compared to those of the pros.   

While cost isn't a prohibition, I have explored Club Champion and others and it seems that all of the putter brands these places want to fit you into are $300 + dollar putters. 

 If it can really help I will spend the money.  Or is this a case of I have to "believe" that a putter fitting will help me, or perceive a problem to be corrected in my putting. And I don't know if I arc the putter, I believe I'm more of straight back and through, honestly its not something I have or ever will consider, I just line up the putt and hit it, trying to repeat my motion over and over again.

 

Based on your statements, I’d be hesitant to tell you to do a putter fitting as I don’t think you would go into it with an open mind.  You expect to see a benefit of the fitting and while there may be on it might only be measurable over a long period of time.  How would you want the benefit quantified?   Would you be okay doing a fitting and coming out with the recommendation to use your current putter as is?  

putters are expensive and $300 is probably pretty average for what putter cost.   You could also take the specs from the fitting and buy something used and cheaper; there isn’t a requirement to purchase.   
 

Part if a putter fitting is an be to get an understanding of how you move the putter; which really doesn’t seem to be something you are interested in learning.  
 

the recent putter fitting videos on club champions YouTube channel are pretty good at giving you an overview of what to expect in a putter fitting.  The changes may not be drastic which is what I think you believe needs to happen to justify getting fit.   
 

Is there something you think needs to be improved?  Your putting stats are pretty generically stated so we don’t know anything about typical misses or speed control problems and you indicate you are a good putter.   What do YOU want to accomplish and what do YOU think the resulting benefit should be?  

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19 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Also like any fitting it will tell you what’s going on with your stroke and what type of putter fits your swing(blade, mid mallet, mallet)

it will tell you what weight you need, lie and loft.

 

4 hours ago, cnosil said:

What do YOU want to accomplish and what do YOU think the resulting benefit should be?  

 

14 hours ago, Kenny B said:

It told me what stroke type, length, lie angle, loft, and weight of putter head worked best for my stroke.  I was an reasonable putter before I went, but I loved the feel of the Ping Sigma G Doon putter with a counterbalanced shaft and it did improve my putting.

Thank you to all 3 for the responses.  Cnosil I will take yours first.  I guess this is the question I am actually asking,  "I don't know what the benefit can be, or should be".  I "think" I am a decent putter.  I guess I'm kinda answering my own question here, "but I won't know unless I try something different perhaps",   I guess I would want to make sure that going back to what my putting was before, wouldn't be a problem.  Wouldn't want  that to get messed up.

Ricky Bobby & Kenny B  This is the type of "endorsement" I guess I am looking for.  Someone who didn't have a perceived problem, but found that a fitting that perhaps suggested a different type, length, or whatever they felt improved their putting.  So this is good I'm tilting a little more.

And Yikes I guess if I had bought a new putter in the last 10 years I would know they had gone up.  And I guess I am also just afraid(which doesn't seem to be the case depending) that it would be just another "sell job" to get me to buy something expensive!

Edited by stuka44
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Driver: Cobra King Speedzone

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  :bridgestone-small: E12 Soft Yellow 

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34 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

 

 

Thank you to all 3 for the responses.  Cnosil I will take yours first.  I guess this is the question I am actually asking,  "I don't know what the benefit can be, or should be".  I "think" I am a decent putter.  I guess I'm kinda answering my own question here, "but I won't know unless I try something different perhaps",   I guess I would want to make sure that going back to what my putting was before, wouldn't be a problem.  Wouldn't want that that to get messed up.

Ricky Bobby & Kenny B  This is the type of "endorsement" I guess I am looking for.  Someone who didn't have a perceived problem, but found that a fitting that perhaps suggested a different type, length, or whatever they felt improved their putting.  So this is good I'm tilting a little more.

And Yikes I guess if I had bought a new putting in the last 10 years I would know they had gone up.  And I guess I am also just afraid(which doesn't seem to be the case depending) that it would be just another "sell job" to get me to buy something expensive!

I would suggest that you have your local pro look at your putting stroke before you get a fitting.  Your putter may or may not be a fit for you; if it is not optimized, you may be making a compensation to give you the best results.  The pro should be able to spot any putting "anomalies" that might be there because of putter length and how you deliver the putter to the ball.  If the pro thinks everything look OK, then I would tend to work on drills to improve your skills.  We can all do better if we put in the time.

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32 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

 

Thank you to all 3 for the responses.  Cnosil I will take yours first.  I guess this is the question I am actually asking,  "I don't know what the benefit can be, or should be".  I "think" I am a decent putter.  I guess I'm kinda answering my own question here, "but I won't know unless I try something different perhaps",   I guess I would want to make sure that going back to what my putting was before, wouldn't be a problem.  Wouldn't want that that to get messed up.

Ricky Bobby & Kenny B  This is the type of "endorsement" I guess I am looking for.  Someone who didn't have a perceived problem, but found that a fitting that perhaps suggested a different type, length, or whatever they felt improved their putting.  So this is good I'm tilting a little more.

And Yikes I guess if I had bought a new putting in the last 10 years I would know they had gone up.  And I guess I am also just afraid(which doesn't seem to be the case depending) that it would be just another "sell job" to get me to buy something expensive!

The benefit is to help ensure you are using the right putter for your stroke and evaluate how consistent you are with your current putter.   Let’s talk Puttlab. Some of the things that Puttlab will report is: aim, path, closure rate, face at impact, tempo, attack angle, loft at impact, lie at impact, and impact location.   By looking at these variables and how consistent you are will help the fitter find a putter or adjust your current putter to optimize club delivery.  If you aren’t consistent, you are potentially impacting direction and role which influences left right dispersion and distance.  
 

If a better fit is determined, part of the fitters job is to sell you a club that will be better for your game.   We run into that in any business that sells a product: eat at a restaurant they suggest appetizers and desserts,  buy a new electronic device and they offer an extended warranty, etc.   Your responsibility is to determine if the additional purchase is something you want.   
 

I’ve done a few fittings over the years.  When I did a Puttlab test it confirmed the suggestions that my instructor had made regarding the putter I should be using.   Most recently I did a fitting at GG and the device they used confirmed that my putter was a good fit as I had a relatively consistent path and face angle at impact.  I have done an Edel fitting and it was a manual approach to checking aim and distance control.  
 

Going back to your first statements/questions I would ask, do you know how consistent the various aspects of your stroke are?  Do you want to know if those variabilities can be tightened with a putter change bs a stroke change?   

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38 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

I would suggest that you have your local pro look at your putting stroke before you get a fitting.  Your putter may or may not be a fit for you; if it is not optimized, you may be making a compensation to give you the best results.  The pro should be able to spot any putting "anomalies" that might be there because of putter length and how you deliver the putter to the ball.  If the pro thinks everything look OK, then I would tend to work on drills to improve your skills.  We can all do better if we put in the time.

Thanks again, and I guess I probably should have mentioned, that in September of 2021, I  began to actually practice my putting, on my indoor mat, that I was chosen to test for MGS,  mostly in the winter, and this has improved the consistency of my stroke greatly.    So I have noticed improvement from practicing.  I am just exploring with this thread, input on if a fitting perhaps would or could give me some unforseen benefit.  I like your idea.  I think I will seek out a pro, and maybe do what you suggested and see if he/she would see anything, glaring that perhaps could be adjusted (length etc) that could be adjusted short of a full fledged fitting. 

Edited by stuka44
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Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  :bridgestone-small: E12 Soft Yellow 

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40 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Going back to your first statements/questions I would ask, do you know how consistent the various aspects of your stroke are?  Do you want to know if those variabilities can be tightened with a putter change bs a stroke change?  

"Talk to me Goose"... I like where you are going with this.  As I responded previously I have noticed improvement, "knock me over with a feather", when I actually started to do something that could actually be considerned practicing my putting!  So I see where a fitting which would suggest something different (or not!), could   add to the consistency gained by practicing.  I noted marked improvement in # of birdies, doubles, pars, all in a positive direction since practing.  So if a putter the "right length, different shape, loft etc" whatever may be suggested can add even more to the benefit of the practice, why not explore it.    I'm beginning to see it more clearly.

Edited by stuka44
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Driver: Cobra King Speedzone

Irons:  :callaway-small: Mavrik 4-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

Ball:  :bridgestone-small: E12 Soft Yellow 

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22 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

"Talk to me Goose"... I like where you are going with this.  As I responded previously I have noticed improvement, "knock me over with a feather", when I actually started to do something that could actually be considerned practicing my putting!  So I see where a fitting which would suggest something different (or not!), could   add to the consistency gained by practicing.  I noted marked improvement in # of birdies, doubles, pars, all in a positive direction since practing.  So if a putter the "right length, different shape, loft etc" whatever may be suggested can add even more to the benefit of the practice, why not explore it.    I'm beginning to see it more clearly.

There are basically two approaches when selecting a putter:

  1. buy a putter and figure out how to use it.  With practice we can get better but the question that is harder to answer is will the adjustments you made hold up under pressure.  
     
  2. learn your stroke tendencies and get a putter that fits those tendencies.

 

both approaches work and have been used by some of the best putters in the world. We also see putters that aren’t really properly fit: Steve Stricker and his heel up setup would not be considered a well fit putter.  
 

how do you practice?   Are you just rolling putts from various distances and seeing how many you make or do you work on stroke by doing things like gate drills to check face impact and ball start line and ladder type drills for distance control.  
 

the other thing to consider is that people that consider themselves very feel oriented may not want to do something like a Puttlab.  It provides lots of information and might be too much overload especially if the stroke isn’t “ideal” but produces good results.  Don’t really want to start chasing numbers or trying to change what you do.  For those players it might be best to find a pro that is a putting specialist and just adjusts your current putter.  In the club champion putter fitting video, I think the lady they were fitting would have been fine with her current putter and just a loft adjustment.  

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48 minutes ago, cnosil said:

There are basically two approaches when selecting a putter:

I do consider myself a feel putter.  I've written this on other threads.  I pace off the distances of my putts, not because I have some technical take back distance  like Dechambeau, but like the markings on a basketball court, telling me how far I was from the basket dictated the force behind my jumper(instinctively), the distance from the cup I believe helps me(without thinking too much) groove the force behind my putts.

I do hit balls(putting), but I do not do gate drills like you described.  I don't keep track of how many I make, I concentrate more on taking the same grip, and routine.  Now even when I putt on my mat, i do practice distance control on every one.  i try to get it beyond  the holes on the mat without it hitting the rear bumper about 14 inches behind them.  I keep track of first putt distance during rounds.  And keeping this I am aware that one putt percentage has gone up in the putts less than 7 foot range.  I guess I have been fearful of just what you mentioned.  I'm not sure a lot of "technical data" on my putting stroke would be  a good thing.

Edited by stuka44
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Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CG-14 56 & RTX 52

Putter:  :ping-small: Scottsdale Wolverine

Woods:  Gigagolf  3W, 2H, 3H

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Had I not done an iron fitting last year, after playing golf for 50 years, I would never have known I like 3° flat- then armed with that and some new irons bent there, I’m hitting some good shots- not that I didn’t before, just more of them I suppose. I was an OK putter, but then got fit into an Edel putter, and I’m a little bit better of a putter now-

asking others if a fitting is worth it, will get different answers from everyone- some would pay $1000 to shave one stroke off their avg, others don’t care and wouldn’t pay a dime- 

so what’s it worth to you? If you don’t really care then I would skip it. But if you would pay to have fewer putts per round, then do it-

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On 9/8/2022 at 3:58 PM, stuka44 said:

Some Background!  I am 56, my handicap is likely more accurately a 13-15 at this point, and I have never had a golf lesson.  I tried to have an iron fitting 3 years ago, and I can't hit off a mat, it would have appeared that I had never held a golf club, at that iron fitting.  Now I have read many a post on this site with many eluding to  the benefits of a Putter Fitting!  Now I'm pretty sure I could handle a Putter fitting without skulling, or grounding any balls into the screen.

As the title indicates,    I am not  "Anti" putter fitting, but I have my concerns as to how much benefit I could realistically expect. For clarity I do not believe I am a bad putter. I am aware like Dave P, points out that pros make 50/50 from 8 feet.  My 50/50 is 6 feet.  I lag putt pretty well and don't 3 putt excesively. I believe my make percentages at various distances are acceptable when compared to those of the pros.   While cost isn't a prohibition, I have explored Club Champion and others and it seems that all of the putter brands these places want to fit you into are $300 + dollar putters.  I bought my Ping Scottsdale Wolverine in circa 2013-14 for around $110(and I like it and have no problem with it).  If it can really help I will spend the money.  Or is this a case of I have to "believe" that a putter fitting will help me, or perceive a problem to be corrected in my putting. And I don't know if I arc the putter, I believe I'm more of straight back and through, honestly its not something I have or ever will consider, I just line up the putt and hit it, trying to repeat my motion over and over again.

I am open to  questions about my game/putting to clarify things,  and comments to help me see if a putter fitting will help me.  I guess I'm looking to see if there is anyone like me, who is(or believes they are) a decent putter, and doesn't perceive any real problems with their putting, who had a fitting and experienced a revalation, about how much better they were after the fitting.

Thanks in Advance!

 

Learn how your forearms / shoulders/ hands manipulate a club. Search on Utubee for the Edel videos that cover this subject. It is more important than the loft / lie fitting and no one in a fitting studio (other than an Edel studio) will assess this for you.

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29 minutes ago, flyingwedges said:

Learn how your forearms / shoulders/ hands manipulate a club. Search on Utubee for the Edel videos that cover this subject. It is more important than the loft / lie fitting and no one in a fitting studio (other than an Edel studio) will assess this for you.

Edel is doing some interesting things based on the biomechanics stuff that Mike Adams and Terry Knowles are doing in the full swing.  It is now part of the teachings of Bruce Rearick who taught me a lot about putting.   Not sure how many people are doing the Edel fittings based on these measurements.   Also,  I stayed away from mentioning Edel because he had indicated that $300 was a lot for a putter and a custom fit Edel is going to run a bit more than that.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
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Here’s my experience.  I’ve been through iron fittings at Club Champion, and with a local fitter in a small chain store. The CC fitting was a failure, I returned the irons after 2 rounds.  Same with the small store.  Club Champion also did a putter fitting, I’m still playing that putter 5 years later and based on the fit numbers, I know exactly what to look for, if I try a new putter, (I won’t). I think putter fitting is the easiest of the fittings for fitters to get right.  The lasers and computers take most of the guesswork out of it and are more accurate than launch monitors.

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I am certified to fit all the major brands, and have used SAM (Science and Motion) to fit putters. I have also been fit by SAM and at Bettinardi with a much more advanced fitting system. My personal bottom line...take your putter to a retail golf shop with a putting green in the putter area. Compare your putter to others you like, and putt 8-10 balls all from the same spot. If nothing better than your current Ping, keep the Ping. If there is another putter that works better for you, there you go. Remember, putters break and miraculously fix themselves after a period of time. I purchased an Odyssey that I made 12 straight putts in the store 15 years ago. Still have and use occasionally, when it works! Don't waste the money on putter fittings.

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Titleist Scotty Cameron '21 Phantom X 11.5 Putter

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Lamkin Sonar+ Mid-Size Grips

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I haven't read all the responses above but I will put in my two cents. I had never done a putter fitting before, mostly because I'm too cheap haha, but I just really doubted that it would make any difference. I was a pretty good putter and liked the putter I was using (also a ping). While vacationing in Atlanta it turned out that a pxg store was right across the street from my hotel. My wife wanted to do some shopping at the mall that the pxg store was in so while she shopped I wandered down to the pxg store to look around. There was a sign there that talked about fittings and it mentioned a putter fitting for $50. I had nothing going on and I was on vacation so I thought what the heck I'll give it a try. There was no one else in the store so the girl working there said I could do it even though I didn't have an appointment. We spent about 45 minutes trying all different types of putters with various necks, lengths and weights. I was shocked at the difference it made when she finally dialed in on what fit me specifically. I was always pretty good in the four to eight foot range but now I'm very consistent on my lag putting as well as my short putting. The putter just kind of swings itself. The best part was after we were done and I went to pay her the $50 she said that it was on the house because she was bored anyway and it gave her something to do for an hour. So that was pretty nice. She actually offered to let me do a fitting for woods as well but like you I cannot hit off a mat or in a simulator and so I passed on that. The last time I tried to do a driver fitting in a simulator the gentleman told me after watching me hit about 10 balls everywhere but the center of the club face that I really needed to practice and learn a little more about the game before doing a fitting. My son was with me and got a big charge out of that and told the fitter that I was a six handicap and had been playing for 35 years but I'm still not sure the guy believed him. At least we all got a good laugh out of it.

Whatever you choose to do good luck and have fun!

 

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On 9/8/2022 at 4:58 PM, stuka44 said:

Some Background!  I am 56, my handicap is likely more accurately a 13-15 at this point, and I have never had a golf lesson.  I tried to have an iron fitting 3 years ago, and I can't hit off a mat, it would have appeared that I had never held a golf club, at that iron fitting.  Now I have read many a post on this site with many eluding to  the benefits of a Putter Fitting!  Now I'm pretty sure I could handle a Putter fitting without skulling, or grounding any balls into the screen.

As the title indicates,    I am not  "Anti" putter fitting, but I have my concerns as to how much benefit I could realistically expect. For clarity I do not believe I am a bad putter. I am aware like Dave P, points out that pros make 50/50 from 8 feet.  My 50/50 is 6 feet.  I lag putt pretty well and don't 3 putt excesively. I believe my make percentages at various distances are acceptable when compared to those of the pros.   While cost isn't a prohibition, I have explored Club Champion and others and it seems that all of the putter brands these places want to fit you into are $300 + dollar putters.  I bought my Ping Scottsdale Wolverine in circa 2013-14 for around $110(and I like it and have no problem with it).  If it can really help I will spend the money.  Or is this a case of I have to "believe" that a putter fitting will help me, or perceive a problem to be corrected in my putting. And I don't know if I arc the putter, I believe I'm more of straight back and through, honestly its not something I have or ever will consider, I just line up the putt and hit it, trying to repeat my motion over and over again.

I am open to  questions about my game/putting to clarify things,  and comments to help me see if a putter fitting will help me.  I guess I'm looking to see if there is anyone like me, who is(or believes they are) a decent putter, and doesn't perceive any real problems with their putting, who had a fitting and experienced a revalation, about how much better they were after the fitting.

Thanks in Advance!

 

I was in the same boat as you also thought I was a strait back and through, was leaving most of my putts short costing me additional strokes per round, went through a fitting at Club Champion found out that my center shafted putter was not the best fit for arc swing path as well as the loft and lie of my present putters was wrong, was asked if I had trouble getting the ball to the hole!! I was offered to have my present putter adjusted if all possible but I decided to go with a new putter to my specs and was one of the better golf decisions I ever made. 

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I am your twin brother from another mother....Get fitted. For 45 years no lessons and no fittings and previously made it to scratch. Now as a fat old man, I need to make sure I have right tools to keep HI near 10. 

 

A fitting doesn't mean buy a new putter. It affirms confirms what your putt stroke tendencies are and verifies if your current putter is a GOOD fit. 

There are an abundance of arc vs straight putters under $125. 

If a better fit putter saves only 1 or 2 strokes a round, is it worth $125 ? If the fitting told you the current putter is 100% wrong fit, would you change ? I would.

I was just shaft and club fitted for irons first time. Just the right thing to do buying irons that can be modified vs off the shelf.

Next up is putter. I am really good. My friends comment complain about my putting.  I can read and get pace and line right +90% of time.  My misses are bad reads mostly rather than stroke or pace. Fitting won't change that.

The only thing left to make my putting better is get fitted.  I won't change the head from ping anser old style. All I am willing to do is change shaft and hosel orientations. The putter head will not change.

 

Hopefully fitting will say stick with this. As good as you are going to get for tool vs technique.

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