Leave your ego and your long irons at home.

[RoverRick]

I have a poll going on another thread and it asks what you carry in your bag in terms of woods, hybrids, and wedges. Most responders do not vary their set ups and most carry 1 or more hybrids. I usually carry two hybrids but erroneously thought that it was better to have irons than hybrids because they are easier to keep down in high winds. Of course this depends on your hybrids. If you have game improvement hybrids that are designed to get the ball up no matter what then this may not be the case but mine are not. On windy days, and there are a lot of those, I would leave one or both at home and take the long irons.

 

Today, 35-40 mph winds, I went out and played 9 holes for practice. I took both my irons and hybrids ahd hit one of each every time I needed to and several other times just to practice and do my test. I discovered something very interesting. Of course since the shafts are longer on the hybrids the distance is not exactly apples to apples. But I am happy to report that hit the all of the clubs pretty flush everytime today. I hit draws and fades and high shots and low shots with all four of these clubs. What I found was the distance was of course longer with the hybrids, but in every case I was in better shape after hitting the hybrid verses the iron. I never had one that was much different but each one was marginally better. Now, I was striking all of the clubs well today but believe me, I took extra time with the irons verses the hybrids.

 

 

Also, you can jack around with the lofts and lengths of the hybrids and choke up or down or whatever and cover the same distance with 2 hybrids as you can say with a 5 wood, 3 iron and 4 iron. This opens up a spot for an additional wedge. I played Tuesday with an older gentleman who made a comment about me using a hybrid verses a long iron. And he talked about how much better he hit the irons than the hybrid. All I can say is with the proper hybrid (and practice) it is always better to have the hybrid than the long iron. Well struck balls with both clubs, you end up better off.

 

For those of you who say that you can not hit a hybrid, try a different hybrid. They are definately not all the same.And leave your ego and your long irons at home.

[GolfSpy Tim]

I'm carrying a 5 wood, and a 21 and 24 hybrid.

 

The 3 wood and I have a LOVE and HATE relationship like no other, just not worth carrying.

 

I'm about convinced the 5 wood doesn't need to be in there either.

 

I'd love to get an 18 hybrid in place.

[Kanoito]

I go driver, 3w, 21* hybrid if I remember correctly, 4 iron.

 

4 iron is used for around 190 yards (theoretically) and everything between that and the driver distance, I just let the 3w or 21* hybrid decide randomly. I'm not consistent enough with them, but usually hybrid covers the 200 gap and the 3w covers the 220 distance (exact distance for a par3 we have here so I just tee off with it).

 

In my case, it's not about ego. I simply hit the 4 iron much better than any hybrid. I keep going between 46 PW, 52, 58 and 46 PW, 50, 54, 58 set ups. I think I'll stay with the 4 wedge set up, full shots are just more comfortable for me.

[RoverRick]

The funny thing was I thought I hit my 4 iron better. Heck I thought I hit the three iron better also. I hit the 3 iron off the tee box and absolutely killed it. I thought well that answers the question. 235 right down the middle. Beautiful ball flight. Then hit the 19 hybrid 20 yards past it. Right down the middle. The next hole into the wind I hit the 4 iron and 21. 4 iron right to the front of the green 165. Hybrid 172 to 3 feet from the flag. Both knockdown rollers. Crosswind very similar results. Nothing feels better than a well struck long iron but. When I know I have to hit a little further I over swing and the result on mishits are much better with a hybrid the shocking thing is the results of great hits are also better.

[GolfSpy WD]

I hit the 3 iron off the tee box and absolutely killed it. I thought well that answers the question. 235 right down the middle. Beautiful ball flight. Then hit the 19 hybrid 20 yards past it. Right down the middle. The next hole into the wind I hit the 4 iron and 21. 4 iron right to the front of the green 165. Hybrid 172 to 3 feet from the flag. Both knockdown rollers. Crosswind very similar results.

 

What are the lofts of your irons? Most 3 irons are 21*, so you shouldn't be able to hit the 3 iron further. Plus, as you said, the hybrid is a longer, lighter club.

 

Personally, I've never carried a 3 or 4 iron. I could probably hit them now, but I like my hybrids, they're very easy to hit. Most professionals these days also carry at least one hybrid, so I don't think it's an ego issue at this point. The real problem is club manufacturers still insist on selling most clubs as 3-PW sets instead of offering an option for replacing the long irons with hybrids.

[Jmikecpa]

I have not carried anything more than a five iron in years. A decade ago in college I actually put a Callaway Heavenwood in my bag and it stayed for years. Much like today's hybrids I could hit it from anywhere and play it in any condition.

[Matt Saternus]

RR: I think you're point of "try a different hybrid" is a good one. Hybrids vary A LOT and people don't consider that. Just because I don't hit an offset Cobra driver well doesn't mean I should give up on hitting driver, right? Same should apply to hybrids.

[RoverRick]

As far as hitting the clubs further, up until November, I could hit the ball a lot futher. But unfortunately, if I did that 32 times during a round of golf, my back would hurt that night and for the next couple of days. So I have the option. Have back surgery to repair a disc, or swing the golf club at what I think of as 75%. Now, the funny thing about the 75% swing is that it is repetitive in terms of distance and direction. So what I have noticed is that when I do this the ball lands in the same place everytime. I used to average 287 with the drive and hit 70% of the fairways. I also was hitting only 4 GIR or 22%. Now I am averageing about 255 but hitting 95% of the fairways and 65% GiR. My putts are up a little but my chipping is down and my scores are down.

 

On the opening hole at my club, I used to hit driver, pitching wedge, to a very sloped, very small green. I usually was just off the edge of the green and hoped to pitch it close and stop it below the hole. Now I hit driver 8 iron, but am usually on the green and can putt it so that I am right at the hole and get a four. Pars actually rule the day.

 

I have found that if you can make pars then you usually win. I have not calculated my handicap lately but i think when I do it again it will be reduced a couple of strokes. And reducing a 6 to a 4 is a pretty big deal.

 

 

 

As far as hybrids being different. They are like irons but even more so. There are game improvement versions, super game improvement versions, and "player" hybrids. The Nike VR Pro II look very good to me. That size hybrid is very workable and is much like the older Hogans that I have but with a hotter face and some other features. It took me some getting used to but the 909H I have has a little larger head and while still workable not near as much as the Hogans it replaced. But it also replaced a 5W. So, I gave up a bit of workablility to an additional wedge which is a much better trade in my opinion. But in all honesty it does not out perform the Hogan but is at least equal to it.

 

Callaway miss a tremendous opportunity when they boght Hogan. Hogan was one of the premier forged iron companies. Callaway was the dominant game improvement companies. If Callaway would have kept the Hogan line for players irons how many more people would be out there playing Callaway-Hogan X Forged than are playing the Razr Forged. I know I would have a set of them. And probably have a lot more Callaway stuff.

 

I played Adams, Ping, Callaway, and Taylormade hybrids over the years a for a few rounds and did not like any of them. Too much offset in most cases and in all cases they simply did not out perform my Hogans. Two of my playing partners also hit Hogan Hybrid, They hit mine and liked it so much they bought them also. One guy has Adams a2OS irons but uses a Hogan 2 Hybrid for a 5 wood.

[Xamilo]

I don't carry any hybrids, not because of my "iron ego", but because I use a 7W 20º instead. I don't use a 4i (distance is mostly the same as the 7W so why bother?). As soon as I get some spare money I'm dropping my 5i for a Hybrid though

[RoverRick]

A point could be made that with an appropriate hybrid with its shorter shaft, you may be better off with a hybrid than a 7W but if it aint broke don't spend the money on it. Fix something that is broke. I had a Ping ISI 7W that had this tiny little head that I just loved. I replaced it with the hybrids in 2004. Plenty to spend the golf budget on without replacing working clubs.

[ninjacobra]

i get confused with the current manufacturers jacked up lofts on hybrids. i use a R11 21 deg 4 hybrid to replace my 3 iron. should i be using a 19 to fill that gap? but that would kick my 5 wood out of the bag.

 

i might be able to replace my 4 iron but i love using it for punch shots out from trees, where i play is tight fairways with tall trees on both sides. ive jst nv been able to keep the ball punched out low and piercing from a tree root filled ground with a hybrid. maybe i jst need the right hybrid

[GolfSpy Tim]

this sport never ceases to amaze me with the amount of testosterone running through guys' brains, playing from the tips cause it seems cool when they can only drive 250 yards max, playing a stiff to x-stiff shaft just to they can tell their buddy they have it "cause they swing harder"

 

all to the end of causing them to play worst.

 

pondering how the sport as a whole can help guys starting out get into the right gear more easily.

 

is it their friends fault who lead them in and astray, or the manufacturer's faults for building what "sells" vs. what works?

 

sorry, taking this thread a different direction.

[ninjacobra]

this sport never ceases to amaze me with the amount of testosterone running through guys' brains, playing from the tips cause it seems cool when they can only drive 250 yards max, playing a stiff to x-stiff shaft just to they can tell their buddy they have it "cause they swing harder"

 

all to the end of causing them to play worst.

 

pondering how the sport as a whole can help guys starting out get into the right gear more easily.

 

is it their friends fault who lead them in and astray, or the manufacturer's faults for building what "sells" vs. what works?

 

sorry, taking this thread a different direction.

 

when i first started playing my SS was 90mph and i got a reg Cobra Speed Ld driver abt 6 mths later it went up to 97 and the ball started to balloon on me and i had to upgrade. partially due to the head and also the really whippy reg shaft

 

sometimes is it really necessary to buy ur exact same specs if u knw ur probably gonna "outgrow" the clubs if ur a relatively new golfer? i think it really depends on ur budget.

 

on the other hand, the guy with the 80mph ss using a vr pro with Px6.0 reminds me of my buddy who jst started out and want to hit the same spec shafts that im using.

 

last friday when i was trying out the i20 and the R11s my buddy wanted to hit the same stiff flex driver that i was hitting. he hit a couple and the shaft being too heavy and boardy for him duffed the drives abt 140yards.

The store assistant being honest and not a vry good salesman he didnt really water down the truth and jst told him straight " with ur swing u shdnt be using a Px shaft at all"

needless to say, my friend didnt buy anything and on the way to the car said the launch monitor in the shop was broken and wants to try somewhere else

[Dhuck Whooker]

Is it so wrong to pull out a 3-iron once in a while, get all nervous, fight the inner demons, close your eyes and swing? It is a great feeling to hit a 3-iron flush. Yes, I'd probably hit ten shots better with a hybrid than a 3-iron, but for me, so what? I'm not playing for a million dollars, or a club championship, just for fun and pocket change in the silly golf league of 15 guys where the payout for a skin or a closest-to might cover the tab for your burger and beer in the clubhouse.

 

Beside a 3-iron works great for an alignment stick at the range.

 

[RoverRick]

I played with a guy today that I play with maybe 8 to 10 times per year. We are very simular handicap wise. He marshals at another course and not a member of mine and I am not a member of his. But since we are both self employed we slip out sometimes during the week. Let me rephase that, I do not "slip out:" I go everyday at 3 during the winter and 4 during the daylight savings time, but I do go at noon on some days.

 

He rode with me in my cart today, and on hole 3 a par 5 I pulled out a hybrid. on the tee box. So we started talking about hybrids. He was shocked that I hit a hybrid off of the tee box and was 50 yards past me on the tee shot. But on the second shot, because of the layout he was so close to the trees he laid his next shot up at 100 yards. We both had birdie putts that we missed but he was impressed with the strategy, and we started taliking about hybrids, He has Driver, 3W, 3-P, and some wedges. When we got to hole 7. 363 yard par 4 but very nasty, I pulled out the hybrid, so he pulled out the 3 iron. I ended up center of the fairway 141 yards out and he was behind the right trees 186. He got very lucky with an iron that went thruough 15 trees and hit nothing, and ended up with a two putt par and I also parred but all day long when he hit long irons, I hit hybrids, and I was better off every time. He miss hit some, and while I miss hit my 4 hybrid once, I ended up in the faiirway 200 out and he mishit his 4 irons, seconds later off the same tee box his ball bounced off the OB marker into the rough 220 out.

I do not know if I actually convinced him and had we have been on his course it would have been more poignant.

 

As an aside, I had to make a 15' birdie putt on 9 for $60 dollars today. Talk about pressure. Make it win $60. Miss it pay $60. I had $42 in my pocket which did not help to releave the pressure. We were on the tee box, and I said I would take the bet but I wanted to say right now, I have $42. And I got the expected reply, "Credit can be arranged at my brother's saloon." I left today with $102 in my pocket.

[Dave]

I've not long put my first hybrid in the bag. It's in the 3 iron slot but actually replaced a 7 wood. I like it so far, probably goes a little too far for the gapping I want.

 

My problem with them is finding the right gap. I have a A12 pro 23' in the 3 iron slot, if I want to drop the 4 iron I'd have to get a 26 which would leave me a big gap to a 5 iron. I've tried cut down hybrids before and I just didn't like them. Hence, the 4 iron stays.

[RoverRick]

ninjacobra, no, actually, depending on your 4i distance, you could go to 23-24' hybrid & get the proper gapping..a typical 3i is 21' & a comprable 21' hybrid should give you 8-10 yds more distance, which would cause an undesirable gap between that a 4i...When I swap out my 3i for my hybrid, I carry the Nike VR Pro 24', which is a 4h, though it gives 3i distance..Club numbers are worthless on hybrids..Go by the lofts...The best...Fairways & Greens 4ever...

 

 

I second this. The numbers mean nothing, especially if you get the properly fit shaft. I am wondering now why I am carrying a 3 wood. I do not in the summer but recently, since I reshafted my hybrids, I hit my 19* almost as far as my three wood and a heck of a lot straighter. off the deck. And instead of hitting it off of the tee, I can make a little slower swing with the driver and achieve the same results as with a 3 wood. But, I had to replace my 4 iron with a hybrid to cover the gap created when I added the first hybrid.

Truthfully, my first hybrid was a 17* that replaced my 5 wood. Then I got a set of irons with a 3 and 4 hybrid with them. I never liked those shafts, so I replaced them. Then after having the 17, 21, and 24 I got the 19 and replaced the 17 and 21 with the 18. If I were to start over I would have just the 18 and 24.

 

NingaCobra (by the way, I may have to rewatch KungFu Panda to see how a snake does the martial arts) but he said, "i might be able to replace my 4 iron but i love using it for punch shots out from trees, where i play is tight fairways with tall trees on both sides. ive jst nv been able to keep the ball punched out low and piercing from a tree root filled ground with a hybrid. maybe i jst need the right hybrid" The hybrid with a little work on your part is a much more versitile at punches than an iron. We are talking a player version not GI version. I "punched" my 19 hybrid out of the trees and 162 yards to the front of the green today. It travelled about 140 yards about 5 feet off of the ground. My thought is that if Phil Mickelson needs one, just about everyone else needs two.

 

But keep in mind I am biased. I started this thread when I went out and proved to myself whether a hybrid is always better than an iron, and I believe it is. I also putted with my hybrid across 25 yards of hard pan and 25 yards of green today It broke first 5 feet right and then 7 feet left and stopped about 30 inches from the hole. I would not have tried that with a 4 iron.

[RoverRick]

I've not long put my first hybrid in the bag. It's in the 3 iron slot but actually replaced a 7 wood. I like it so far, probably goes a little too far for the gapping I want.

 

My problem with them is finding the right gap. I have a A12 pro 23' in the 3 iron slot, if I want to drop the 4 iron I'd have to get a 26 which would leave me a big gap to a 5 iron. I've tried cut down hybrids before and I just didn't like them. Hence, the 4 iron stays.

 

 

I actually have a 17 yard gap between my 5 iron and 24 degree hybrid. I find it very easy choke down on the hybrid a little bit and make up the difference. Provide that you do not have a par 3 that is exactly at this one spot it is sheer luck for this actually to be an issue. There is almost always other thinks to take into account also, wind, temperature, elevation changes, moisture.

[Dave]

Thats the thing, par 3 at my home course is a solid 5 iron. When its calm, windy its a 4. And long is dead, hence the reluctance to punch the hybrid. Short par 5 as well where if I bomb the the tee shot over the dogleg, thats what I have have left.

 

I still need to find a cheap 26 Adams hybrid too at least try out.

[Shambles]

In my opinion, the Hybrid is clearly an easier club to use and has a greater utility than the long irons. Distance is almost automatic but the landings need attention because they roll out a lot. The long Irons can make the same carry and stop more quickly but require a better lie and stance to perform well, which is why stretching the 5 iron's performance was often resorted to. The hybrid is a lot easier to use under more conditions than either the FW's or the Long Irons. I think it's the heavy head that makes the hybrid so easy, though there were utility clubs made in the past that felt about as easy.

 

I've retired my 3 and 4 irons in favor of a couple of hybrids. However, if I can carry the green, I would probably go for a FW or a long iron if I still had it in the bag. They stop more quickly.

 

 

Shambles

[RoverRick]

In my opinion, the Hybrid is clearly an easier club to use and has a greater utility than the long irons. Distance is almost automatic but the landings need attention because they roll out a lot. The long Irons can make the same carry and stop more quickly but require a better lie and stance to perform well, which is why stretching the 5 iron's performance was often resorted to. The hybrid is a lot easier to use under more conditions than either the FW's or the Long Irons. I think it's the heavy head that makes the hybrid so easy, though there were utility clubs made in the past that felt about as easy.

 

I've retired my 3 and 4 irons in favor of a couple of hybrids. However, if I can carry the green, I would probably go for a FW or a long iron if I still had it in the bag. They stop more quickly.

 

 

Shambles

 

I have found that with my hybrids, especially the Hogans, if I want to roll I will flatten my swing plane and it will hit and roll out, If I want it to stop, I have a steeper angle of approach and it will hit and stop. I get about the same carry but much more roll and thus distance. I do not know which hybrids you use but that does make a big difference. The shaft you use also makes a big difference. I recently have been carrying the 909H 18 and I get the same distance as I do with the Hogan CFT ti but I may put the Hogan back in the bag tomorrow. They are simply better at working the ball than anything I have ever found. The Nike VR Pros, LOOK, like they would be great but I have only looked at them. Besides, I have decided that I am waisting my time looking at different hybrids. I have what work great to me so why am I still looking. I read in GD about how the newer ones go further and spin more so I started looking, but so what. I do not need further and more spin. I need 210 straight and stop or 210 straight and roll another 15 yards. Oops. I already have that so what is my problem. I can always use more distance on my driver and I am not happy with my 3 wood, (which is why the Callaway is back near the bag,) but irons and hybrids are fine the way they are.

[Shambles]

Funny thing about Golf is that a lot of funny swings and bad ideas work well for some people. That's a nice thing as long as those guys don't try to teach it.

 

I'll stick with just saying that the Hybrids are easier to work than the long irons. They can be made to fly high or low but I'm lazy and have a caddy so I carry fairways because they are easier to get the ball up in the air with. Lofts of the FW's and Hybrids are the same but I have a very stiff shaft in my higher lofted hybrid because I also use it as a trouble wood more often than the FW. If I'm in real trouble, my mid and short irons take over. Sometimes the grass is so thick there is no way to reliably get the club face on the ball except with an iron. I also use a very stiff shaft on my SW because it works better for me in the short game and in trouble situations. Costs me some distance but I just pass that work on to the PW.

 

 

Shambles

[RoverRick]

March 10th is the first tournament of the year for me, followed the next weekend by another and then two weeks off before the final for several months at my club. They are bulldozing at least 9 holes and making minor changes to the rest so no local tournaments after that. But this tournament is a partners/team event. You get to choose you partner but you and your partner will be assigned a team and then it is match play. It is a Ryder Cup like format. 4 matches, scramble, best ball, alternate shot, and four ball for points. Seems like there is something else but the point here is that I have determined the clubs I am going to use.

 

This appears to be the appropriate place to discuss it. I will leave the 3 wood at home because I can hit the driver off the deck on the two hole I may need it or the 19* hybrid, and add the 60* wedge for the sand. I rarely get in the sand, because we do not currently have sand every hole, but the wedge is much more versitile than the 3 wood.

 

 

Driver, Callaway FT9 with Proforce V2 stiff shaft. Not only is this club longer than the Titleist, I can hit this off of deck and get better results than with a 3 wood.

 

Fairway woods. None.

 

Hybrids, 19* Titleist 909H w/ Motore F1, and 24* Ben Hogan w/ UST Axivcore Red.

 

Irons. Titleist ZB 5-P

Wedges. Titleist Vokey Tour Chrome 52, 56, and 64.

 

Ben Hogan 60* Sure out. This has a huge flange on the bottom and is almost like cheating when hitting out of the sand or deep grass.

 

And the Scotty Cameron Big Sur Putter.

[RoverRick]

RR,, I read an article in one of the British golf mags that talked about using the 2-4 hybrid around the green for unobstructed shots..Have you incorporated this club into your greenside shots, & if so, where do you find it most bensficial?...Fairways & Greens 4ever...

 

Absolutely. First off, Jack Nicklaus tells that he was on the chipping green at his first tournament and was chipping to 5 feet of the hole. Arnold Palmer says, "Hey kid, are you happy with that?." Jack said "Yes" Armold says, "Would you be happy with a putt 5 feet from the hole?" Jack said no. Arnold said, "Then maybe you ought to putt it." So based on that advise, I putt from off the green anytime I can. Once I reach a certain point, were I am going to have to really pop the putter, I switch to the 4 hybrid. I have putted 40 yards before. Just like everything it takes practice but IT IS HARD TO HIT A FAT OR A THIN SHOT WHEN YOU PUTT WITH A HYBRID. All you have to do is line it up and then focus on speed. You are more likely to miss by 5 feet short or long vs left of right when you putt so you eliminate half the problems.

[Matt Saternus]

When I caddied in the BMW Pro-Am in 2010, Matt Kuchar's caddy was absolutely begging the ams in the group to putt with their hybrids instead of chipping.

 

As my first real golf coach told me, "Golf is about controlling your misses." Chipping with a hybrid makes for pretty darned good misses.

[BIG STU]

As usual I am outside the box. I still carry and hit a 3iron. I still hit it about 200 yards. I have tried hybrids but do not like them. I do carry a old Taylor Made V steel 7 wood it is my go to club on higher floating shots

[Shambles]

As usual I am outside the box. I still carry and hit a 3iron. I still hit it about 200 yards. I have tried hybrids but do not like them. I do carry a old Taylor Made V steel 7 wood it is my go to club on higher floating shots

 

You're traditional and that brings a song to my ear. Today's 21* 7 wood is yesterday's 21* 5 wood and I have had that in my bag for as long as I can remember. I doubt I would ever again want to go out on a fairway, especially a strange fairway, without it. I like it out of fairway sand and, regardless that my irons can do the same distances, I find it better against the wind and out of light rough. For me, that was the original trouble wood. I tried that wood out of countless bad positions and learned a lot in the process.

 

 

Shambles

[punchshot9]

Personally, I've never carried a 3 or 4 iron. I could probably hit them now, but I like my hybrids, they're very easy to hit. Most professionals these days also carry at least one hybrid, so I don't think it's an ego issue at this point. The real problem is club manufacturers still insist on selling most clubs as 3-PW sets instead of offering an option for replacing the long irons with hybrids.

I agree and will take it a step farther. Buying a 3-PW wouldn't be a problem if OEM's would stop jacking up the lofts and lengths of irons for the sole reason of saying their 5i is longer the any OEM 5i from the previous year. The TM Rocketballz irons are a great example this year. The 5i is 23*. How is a 23* iron going to help with game improvement? The average high capper cannot hit a 23* lofted iron regardless of what number is stamped on it. Imaging being a new golfer and trying to hit a 23* lofted iron. That's nothing but frustration waiting to happen and eventually quitting.

[Matt Saternus]

I agree and will take it a step farther. Buying a 3-PW wouldn't be a problem if OEM's would stop jacking up the lofts and lengths of irons for the sole reason of saying their 5i is longer the any OEM 5i from the previous year. The TM Rocketballz irons are a great example this year. The 5i is 23*. How is a 23* iron going to help with game improvement? The average high capper cannot hit a 23* lofted iron regardless of what number is stamped on it. Imaging being a new golfer and trying to hit a 23* lofted iron. That's nothing but frustration waiting to happen and eventually quitting.

 

At some point the OEMs are going to see diminishing returns (and, in some cases, negative returns) from this stupid loft-jacking nonsense. Today, in fact, I was working with an older gentleman who wanted more distance with his irons. His current set was not launching high enough or spinning enough. When he tested a certain "loft-challenged" 6I do you think it went farther, as advertised? Heck no, it was the shortest of the bunch!

[GolfSpy WD]

At some point the OEMs are going to see diminishing returns (and, in some cases, negative returns) from this stupid loft-jacking nonsense. Today, in fact, I was working with an older gentleman who wanted more distance with his irons. His current set was not launching high enough or spinning enough. When he tested a certain "loft-challenged" 6I do you think it went farther, as advertised? Heck no, it was the shortest of the bunch!

 

That and people will need a fill-in wedge between the pitching wedge and gap wedge, which was kinda the point of the gap to begin with...