Roy

[frank56]

• Playing over the weekend and my partners ball went into bunker when we got there we saw the bunker had sleeper (wooden) face now on this face a lot of weeds had grown through the sleeper joints and my partners ball had caught up halfway down in the weeds in bunker we played it as it lied but I thought he might have been entitled to a free drop

[cnosil]

On 9/27/2022 at 8:20 AM, frank56 said:

• Playing over the weekend and my partners ball went into bunker when we got there we saw the bunker had sleeper (wooden) face now on this face a lot of weeds had grown through the sleeper joints and my partners ball had caught up halfway down in the weeds in bunker we played it as it lied but I thought he might have been entitled to a free drop

Here is my interpretation:  

start with rule 12.1, I would say he wasn’t in the bunker

12.1  When Your Ball Is in Bunker

Your ball is in a bunker when any part of it touches sand on the ground inside the edge of the bunker.

Your ball is also in a bunker if it is inside the edge of the bunker and rests:

• On ground where sand would normally be, or

• In or on a loose impediment, movable obstruction, abnormal course condition or integral object in the bunker.

If your ball lies on soil or grass or other growing or attached natural objects inside the edge of the bunker without touching sand, your ball is not in the bunker.

 

Moving on and trying to determine if relief is allowed from the wooden bulkhead. The question is whether the bulkhead is considered an integral object.

Integral Object

An artificial object defined by the Committee as part of the challenge of playing the course from which free relief is not allowed.

Artificial objects defined by the Committee as integral objects are treated as immovable (see Rule 8.1a). But if part of an integral object (such as a gate or door or part of an attached cable) meets the definition of movable obstruction, that part is treated as a movable obstruction.

That is defined by the course and it’s local rules.  For tournament play it problem would be considered and integral object on the course so no relief.  The course could also define it as an immovable obstruction to prevent people from hitting it with their clubs,  if the course defines it as an immovable obstruction then relief is allowed.

[DaveP043]

I agree with @cnosil, it sounds like the ball wasn't in the Bunker.  We can't know whether those sleepers were Integral Objects or Immoveable Obstructions.  If they're defined as Integral Objects, there's no relief.  If they're not specifically defined as Integral Objects, they're Obstructions, and relief is available.  Refer to Rule 16.1 to understand where your Reference Point and Relief Area are.

[Blueberry_Squishie]

I'm expanding on this to test my knowledge. If another theoretical bunker didn't have the sleepers and the ball had lodged into the front wall (that has no sand) of a bunker area:

 

My thinking: It's not in the bunker, it's in the general area and because it's embedded in it's own pitch mark, you get free relief. When you drop, the relief area must be in the general area, not the bunker (going from 16.3b).

 

Things that might change this that I'm unsure about:

• 16.3a says that part of the ball must below the area of the ground. If it's embedded in an upright face, is any part of the ball below the ground? Does "below the ground" in this case mean perpendicular into the face, or because it is already below the level of the surrounding ground, it's below the ground.
• Are there other rules I'm missing that clarify it?

[cnosil]

9 hours ago, Blueberry_Squishie said:

I'm expanding on this to test my knowledge. If another theoretical bunker didn't have the sleepers and the ball had lodged into the front wall (that has no sand) of a bunker area:

 

My thinking: It's not in the bunker, it's in the general area and because it's embedded in it's own pitch mark, you get free relief. When you drop, the relief area must be in the general area, not the bunker (going from 16.3b).

 

Things that might change this that I'm unsure about:

• 16.3a says that part of the ball must below the area of the ground. If it's embedded in an upright face, is any part of the ball below the ground? Does "below the ground" in this case mean perpendicular into the face, or because it is already below the level of the surrounding ground, it's below the ground.
• Are there other rules I'm missing that clarify it?

I think this article explains it for you:

https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/rules-of-golf-ball-embedded-bunker/

 

[DaveP043]

10 hours ago, Blueberry_Squishie said:

I'm expanding on this to test my knowledge. If another theoretical bunker didn't have the sleepers and the ball had lodged into the front wall (that has no sand) of a bunker area:

My thinking: It's not in the bunker, it's in the general area and because it's embedded in it's own pitch mark, you get free relief. When you drop, the relief area must be in the general area, not the bunker (going from 16.3b).

Things that might change this that I'm unsure about:

• 16.3a says that part of the ball must below the area of the ground. If it's embedded in an upright face, is any part of the ball below the ground? Does "below the ground" in this case mean perpendicular into the face, or because it is already below the level of the surrounding ground, it's below the ground.
• Are there other rules I'm missing that clarify it?

You generally have it right.  A ball is not in the Bunker when its embedded in the face of the bunker, see Rule 12.1 to determine when a ball is in a Bunker.  Your Reference Point and Relief Area MUST be in the General Area.  In general there will be at least a sliver of General Area for you to drop in, most likely on that steep bunker face.  If it won't stay when dropped twice, and still won't stay when you try to place it, you find the nearest point in the General Area where it WILL stay when placed (14.2e).  This spot could be some distance away, and could be outside of the original Relief Area.  Also look at the Clarification to 16.3b.  If the ball is just barely above the sand, and both the Reference Point and the entire potential Relief Area are in the Bunker, you don't get to take free relief.