Swing frustration, hitting same wall with lessons/coach

[ahelix]

I started golfing about 4 years ago and am very busy with work and a young family. Don't get to play a ton--maybe 9 holes a week on average, and practice about 3 times a week for 30 minutes. I've been getting lessons for a couple years and have generally been happy with my progress, but recently just hit a wall. I was kind of stuck at a handicap of 20 for a while, and have got down to 14-15, which has been great, but in my lessons I just feel like we're hitting the same problem over and over and over again.

So I keep hitting a wall with my coach on this one swing issue. We've finally gotten to the point where we might abandon getting me to try hitting draws and just go with cuts because of it. The issue is hard to describe, but it's that I can't really get my left hand to release properly (instead of the wrist turning on the follow-through, I kind of just chicken wing, and am very righthand dominant/armsy). We'll do drill after drill and get it fixed with a 9-to-3 swing, do one-arm drills, etc... but then when we get to full swing the old habit comes right back. He almost said "ok let's just teach you how to play a cut" but it felt like a compromise neither of us was ready to make.

I'm young, athletic, workout regularly, have good mobility, etc. so I don't really wanna give up on the swing I'm trying to work towards. This is more just to vent than anything else... I think as a beginner/intermediate player, I expect certain fixes to happen in one or two lessons, but some issues may take quite a while to fix. Especially if I can only practice about 30 minutes a few times a week.

I live in an area without a lot of great coaches so I don't really want to switch. This coach uses a Trackman indoors etc. and I like how he's fairly technical (I've dabbled with local coaches outdoors and it felt like they were just giving me bandaid fixes, not addressing fundamental/root cause swing problems). I can send him swing videos anytime and he'll respond with his feedback, etc. I guess one alternative would be online/video lessons but I feel like it's hard to beat a fairly good in-person coach with a video coach.

Any encouragement, advice, etc. would be much appreciated!

As an aside: my goal is to get down to under a 10 by the end of 2023! And eventually to scratch just like everyone else obsessed with this damn game! lol

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, ahelix said:

I expect certain fixes to happen in one or two lessons, but some issues may take quite a while to fix. Especially if I can only practice about 30 minutes a few times a week.

This is a good mindset because it will be what limits you. Pros take years to get a small move to finally work. Justin Rose talked about this recently.

There is nothing wrong with a playing a fade. It’s actually a better shot shape to have over a draw because it’s more controllable and the miss isn’t as penal. Many pros have a fade as their stock shot.

1 hour ago, ahelix said:

As an aside: my goal is to get down to under a 10 by the end of 2023! And eventually to scratch just like everyone else obsessed with this damn game! lol

Good goals to have but with 90 mins of practice a week and only playing 9 holes on average it’s not going to be an easy journey.

 

There are plenty of good coaches that do online for the same price if not cheaper than many in person coaches. Dan Carraher, Monte Scheinblum, Tyler Coonts, Chris Ryan, Jason Chown.

Some higher end ones Alex Riggs, Shauheen Nakjhavi (spelling). 

[ahelix]

Thanks! I'm going to give it more time. I've been working on this kind of swing for a couple years and am not quite ready to give up. 

I can probably get it up to 18 holes a week and 45-60 min of practice 3-4 times a week. I get weekly lessons for two months on and then none for two months. 

I'm thinking I'll try one of those online coaches in that 2-month stretch where I can't go to my local in-person coach. Might help to get some extra input/try out something new. I'm sure there are tons of threads on here about online coach reviews, etc. Curious to see if the higher end ones like Riggs and Shauheen are worth the higher price. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Lots of good info for you in your thread on wrx 

[jkimbrell0]

22 hours ago, ahelix said:

Thanks! I'm going to give it more time. I've been working on this kind of swing for a couple years and am not quite ready to give up. 

I can probably get it up to 18 holes a week and 45-60 min of practice 3-4 times a week. I get weekly lessons for two months on and then none for two months. 

I'm thinking I'll try one of those online coaches in that 2-month stretch where I can't go to my local in-person coach. Might help to get some extra input/try out something new. I'm sure there are tons of threads on here about online coach reviews, etc. Curious to see if the higher end ones like Riggs and Shauheen are worth the higher price. 

I also had issues falling back into the same on course habits after lessons. Re Online lessons: I found Slomoswinglibrary (Nick Schiavi) on InstaGram and started doing his suggested nightly rehearsals in front of mirror. Something about working on the specific mechanics of the swing in my house without actually worrying about hitting a ball helped me get a lot more consistent. Probably just focusing on process instead of result.

He has free content and offers monthly subscriber videos also. He also will analyze your swing videos and stuff like that but I haven't made it down that road yet. 

Could be worth checking out

[Goober]

One of the biggest areas of dropping handicap isn’t a fade or draw. It’s 100 yards and in 

[ahelix]

On 9/30/2022 at 7:17 AM, Goober said:

One of the biggest areas of dropping handicap isn’t a fade or draw. It’s 100 yards and in 

Not so for me... I've been struggling with OB off the tee quite a bit which is killing my score.

[TR1PTIK]

The biggest game changer for me was practice at home. You don't have to hit balls to work on the mechanics of a golf swing and you don't necessarily even have to swing the golf club. I've spent hours on grip and setup alone. All it takes is 5 minutes here and 5 minutes there over the course of a day or week to really add up - frequency is important.

[MacTourney]

On 9/27/2022 at 7:52 PM, ahelix said:

I kind of just chicken wing, and am very righthand dominant/armsy). We'll do drill after drill and get it fixed with a 9-to-3 swing, do one-arm drills, etc... but then when we get to full swing the old habit comes right back. He almost said "ok let's just teach you how to play a cut" but it felt like a compromise neither of us was ready to make.

Four years is not a whole lot of golf time with your schedule so be patient.   Until a better handle is acquired on what needs to happen overall perhaps learning one shot, the suggested fade, might not be a bad idea, but that depends on a few things.   One of the bigger issues most beginners encounter comes from seeing a poor defenseless, motionless, ball on the ground and they want to give it a good jolt.   It sounds like you may be in the jolt phase, and that can be a tricky place for a beginner as it distorts a force sequence.   

A great instructor in California, Gregg McHatton, nailed it when saying there are 3 things we can do with forces within the golf swing- we can avoid them and go fishing, we can overpower them, or we can harness them.    

Edited October 3, 2022 by MacTourney
spelling

[Pieceofwork]

If you want to fix your swing and learn the mechanics of the golf swing check out athletic motion golf. They have tons of free YouTube content and outstanding online/home training. They are blowing up right now because of their evidence based teaching and Shaun Web was a top 50 teacher last year. 

[Thegolfdean7]

Back up your lessons with knowledge, Athletic Motion Golf, start with YouTube videos. 

[edingc]

You've gotten a lot of good advice in this thread already, and you seem to understand the limitations of what you can do with your available schedule. That's huge.

That being said, if you can play and practice smart more often, I bet you can shave those strokes. One thing my coach recommends is over exaggeration. If you hit a fade, try to hit a hook, etc. Once you get going in the opposite direction you can correct as needed.

And, of course, progress isn't linear for most people. I went from 20+ to 11 by myself in a year just by playing and practicing more often. After my first year of lessons my handicap didn't move much at all. Last year I went from 10+ to 8+, and this year I finally broke into the 6 range. I can't tell you how many different ways my coach has tried to describe a move to me throughout that process. 

[golfape6]

It may be worth asking yourself one question. Who is responsible for overcoming the wall?

[terry66]

whats wrong with a 9-3 swing? why the focus on a full swing? learn to golf within the 9-3 and develop your game from there. Many professional golfers have an abbreviated swing. I also struggled for years until a young teacher told me to use my arms more and it helped immensely. Having been to many pros all trying to teach a draw swing to one who just uncomplicated things and wow what a difference. I now focus on an abbreviated swing, its repeatable and accurate. good luck

[Muckinfiddle]

It would be very difficult to help you with your issue without seeing your swing but when I get a case of the slices I find that my lack of a flat wrist is the culprit. It's exceedingly difficult to come inside if you are overly steep in your swing. My unseeing advice is to look at drills to flatten your swing, left wrist and possibly slow your tempo down for starters. This being said there are a ton of possibilities that could be contributing to your issues.

[BigW9229]

Relax and enjoy each round. Have fun. You are not going to get on a lot of greens in regulation so work the short game and putting. Your handicap will drop as you lower the number of double bogeys. Don’t expect to be a single digit handicap playing and practicing so little.

[aldoran]

I hear that Hank Haney’s online slice fix works and might be a good solution for you.

[Orkney]

Do you play with 65 year-old clubs?  Of course not.  So why are you trying to learn a 65 year-old swing invented by a golfer to correct his strong left hook?  There is a new swing that is much longer and more accurate--the Somax golf swing.  A college golfer learned this new swing in just four weeks, dropped his scores from the 90's to a 1.5 index, increased his average drive from 290 to 350 and improved his fairway percentage from 55% to 93%.  You can see his before and after photos at http://somaxsports.com/clients.php?client=Huertas   and you can view videos of his swing at https://www.youtube.com/user/SomaxGolfSwing

[RickyBobby_PR]

Per the OPs post in the no turn cast thread on wrx be bought the video series and the day or two after getting it be was flushing his 7i.

Looks like he found something that clicked. 

[Nbar]

2 hours ago, Orkney said:

Do you play with 65 year-old clubs?  Of course not.  So why are you trying to learn a 65 year-old swing invented by a golfer to correct his strong left hook?  There is a new swing that is much longer and more accurate--the Somax golf swing.  A college golfer learned this new swing in just four weeks, dropped his scores from the 90's to a 1.5 index, increased his average drive from 290 to 350 and improved his fairway percentage from 55% to 93%.  You can see his before and after photos at http://somaxsports.com/clients.php?client=Huertas   and you can view videos of his swing at https://www.youtube.com/user/SomaxGolfSwing

You talking about Hogan's swing I can tell you for me I have never hit the ball as solid as when I started using Hogan's swing.

[Goober]

If you can’t see a real instructor face to face. Than maybe seek out a good training aid 

 

the tourstriker plane mate looks a perfect feel / repetition full swing aid. The accolades and customer testimonials seem astounding 

[neva_adoubt]

On 9/27/2022 at 5:52 PM, ahelix said:

 

So I keep hitting a wall with my coach on this one swing issue. We've finally gotten to the point where we might abandon getting me to try hitting draws and just go with cuts because of it. The issue is hard to describe, but it's that I can't really get my left hand to release properly (instead of the wrist turning on the follow-through, I kind of just chicken wing, and am very righthand dominant/armsy). We'll do drill after drill and get it fixed with a 9-to-3 swing, do one-arm drills, etc... but then when we get to full swing the old habit comes right back. He almost said "ok let's just teach you how to play a cut" but it felt like a compromise neither of us was ready to make.

Oh man I feel your pain. I struggle with getting the swing better. I know I over analyze things and when I stop thinking I do better. Weird…
I have gotten lessons in Skillest from Nick Starchuk. He’s Canadian like me so that’s another bonus. I didn’t understand some of what he told me and so I never got any better. Until I started watching some of his you tube videos showing him giving outdoor lessons to other students. That’s when the light came on. 80-90% of us struggle with the same thing so him teaching other people the what I struggle with (a fade) really made sense. Now I understand what I’m doing and what I need to do to get better.

[pbclub]

For what its worth I have battled and over the top move forever. It is getting incrementally smaller, but it takes discipline on my part to make sure I am not doing it. My point is: If it feels the same, your probably not doing it right. If it feels "wrong" or "different" then it is probably correct, especially if your teacher is telling you to do it. Embrace the different feeling in the swing. Reject the familiar. 

If your instructor does not have video consider moving on. Yes, I know there are great instructors without video, however the fastest was to improve is with video imo. Live video preferably. That way you can get into the positions and see/feel where/how they are. 

Just a thought. 

 

[ahelix]

@TR1PTIK : I actually have a Mevo+ with Performance package and a net at home and usually hit at least a few balls every night.

@edingc : That's very encouraging! I think earlier on the fixes were super easy, but as you progress, they get harder, and require more reps to fully fix. 

@pbclubdude : My coach has Trackman so it's got all the video and tech.

Going to stick with my in-person coach for another month or so and will try out online video lessons for a couple months after that. Had another lesson, and we made some progress. Kind of just shortened and simplified the swing in a way that has me moving correctly finally. Will slowly translate to a fuller swing, but I'm getting enough distance to play with something like this (it's kind of like the Bryson swing that keeps both arms relatively straight).

[pbclub]

I really like that type of swing. I use it too. I set up kind of inside and try and follow the plane of the shaft back and up. It really simplifies things for me. 

Your plan sounds solid. I bet you see the results you are looking for pretty fast once you get your rhythm. 

Not necessarily for you, but in my case, I did not really see much improvement until I started playing more. I understand you are not in a position to play a lot; I was like that too, but now as someone fortunate enough to be able to play 5 times a week I cannot understate how important it is to get off the range and onto the course. Things get better with playing experience. On the range I was always chasing the perfect, most consistent shots. In reality, I can hit a thin 5 iron that ends up feet from the pin. Or pull an approach and accidentally save myself when my original line would have been bunker. Both shots would have been unacceptable on the range but led to birdies in reality. 

If you can hit the course more, do it. But family first, as always!

 

[ahelix]

11 hours ago, pbclubdude said:

Not necessarily for you, but in my case, I did not really see much improvement until I started playing more. I understand you are not in a position to play a lot; I was like that too, but now as someone fortunate enough to be able to play 5 times a week I cannot understate how important it is to get off the range and onto the course. Things get better with playing experience. On the range I was always chasing the perfect, most consistent shots. In reality, I can hit a thin 5 iron that ends up feet from the pin. Or pull an approach and accidentally save myself when my original line would have been bunker. Both shots would have been unacceptable on the range but led to birdies in reality. 

If you can hit the course more, do it. But family first, as always!

Wow, playing 5 times a week is the DREAM! I don't know how anyone with a regular/tough job and kids can play more than one round a week. Maybe eventually one of them will get into golf and I guess that could change.  I'm sure there are threads on here with how to play more with kids. The only other thing I could maybe do are early AM rounds.

Starting to also realize you don't need a great full swing to play fairly well (a mediocre full swing with solid short game is probably good enough to get me to my short-term goal of a 10 HCP). I'm at a 14 right now and my full swing is kind of in the middle of an overhaul.

[pbclub]

12 hours ago, ahelix said:

Starting to also realize you don't need a great full swing to play fairly well (a mediocre full swing with solid short game is probably good enough to get me to my short-term goal of a 10 HCP). I'm at a 14 right now and my full swing is kind of in the middle of an overhaul.

Exactly. Go have some fun with it. You will get to 10, then it will be 9 because you don't want to be that close to single digits and not be there. Then it will be an even lower number! It never ends! 

Consider chipping and putting as a priority with your practice time. At 14, you are probably missing some par putts that some practice reps could clean up. Solid chipping makes everything less stressful on approach shots knowing you can still have a shot at par. I am short game practice greens 2 days a week depending on my playing days. I can go weeks and never set foot on the range. However, in making a strong push to change my shallowing move I have spent a few days exclusively on the range. Had too much fun hitting too many balls too fast and injured myself. Back strain. Not too bad but enough to keep me off the course this week. I should have known..........