Shaft Hack - The Otto Phlex Journey

[Bobbers]

3 hours ago, Tywithay said:

My autoflex plays at D1.5 at 46". Had to swap a 3g weight into the B21. I'm ordering the shaft already built to play as is at 46", but any tinkering I'll do myself. 

Every 2 grams taken from the head end will decrease your swing weight by 1-1.5.  Every 4 grams you counterweight the butt will also decrease swing weight by 1 as well.  I  hope that makes sense?

Edited November 29, 2022 by Bobbers

[Bobbers]

I apologize for the short term nature of this particular post but I just learned it a few minutes ago myself.

For those of you looking for a ProLaunch Blue Billy Bob's Golf online just sold me two of them for a total of like $40 each.  No tax, free shipping.

The bad news is it's free shipping, and perhaps the great price, until midnight tonight.  Midnight their time and I think they're in the Pacific Time Zone.

[Bang60]

6 hours ago, Bobbers said:

That's the joy of shared experience in my opinion.  Together we accomplish a helluva lot more than we do by groping around individually.  I'm glad you found it useful.

Sharing experience is what I love about this blog, thanks to all who bare their sole...

[cksurfdude]

On 11/28/2022 at 5:12 PM, Bobbers said:

buy an adapter suitable for a left hander

That's clever! FYI I've also seen pics of "pro" adapters that adjust down more .. not sure how widely available they are..?

[Bobbers]

9 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

That's clever! FYI I've also seen pics of "pro" adapters that adjust down more .. not sure how widely available they are..?

There's an online business called, I believe, "the golf adapter store" that sells them for like $13 each compared to $9 for the left handed model.  I simply use the LH model rather than pay the jacked price for essentially the same product.

[Karlan]

Hi all, stumbled upon this thread and had to try it out. So my driver was a g400 10,5 set to 9,5 with the stock stiff shaft, swing speed between 95-100, generally launching the ball pretty high on a good hit with spin around 2400. I have never been one to tinker with equipment but found a cheap pro launch blue in L flex online and off I went. Got it cut to 45 in and with a ping sleave installed. Really liked the feel, felt a lot easier to swing.

We have trackman range at my club, so thats some ball data but no club data. It is also only a few degrees above freezing this time of year and almost always playing into the wind on the range. Ball launched a few degrees higher, distance was hard to judge in the wind and flight felt like it was ballooning a bit. But was effortless and felt easier to find the center of the face than normal. 

Had to gather some more data, so next day i rented the studio with an actual trackman for an hour. This confirmed my suspicions, spin on good shots were anywhere from 3000-3500. Club speed was up around 1 mph and ball speed up around 2 mph compared to standard shaft. Distance was marginally down. Only way I could get spin approaching 2500 was hitting a slinging hook.

A saner person then myself might have concluded the experiment here. But I figured, why not try another head? Since I have no clue how to switch the sleave I am limited to g400 heads. I find a used g400 LST 8,5 degree online. Understandably he is not interested in selling only the head, so now I have an extra regular shaft as well. Head of to the range again today with my new head with the PLB. Ball flight is so much better, launching around 15 but not ballooning into the wind. Have not tried it in the studio yet but would be shocked if the spin isnt much lower. Best part is it feels just as easy to hit as the old one. Still have one degree more to play with, as this head can come down to 7,5 if needed.

Thanks for this thread, has been a fun ride. Looking forward to the course opening in March hopefully! Of course by then maybe with some speed training I might need a senior flex

[Bobbers]

1 hour ago, Karlan said:

Hi all, stumbled upon this thread and had to try it out. So my driver was a g400 10,5 set to 9,5 with the stock stiff shaft, swing speed between 95-100, generally launching the ball pretty high on a good hit with spin around 2400. I have never been one to tinker with equipment but found a cheap pro launch blue in L flex online and off I went. Got it cut to 45 in and with a ping sleave installed. Really liked the feel, felt a lot easier to swing.

We have trackman range at my club, so thats some ball data but no club data. It is also only a few degrees above freezing this time of year and almost always playing into the wind on the range. Ball launched a few degrees higher, distance was hard to judge in the wind and flight felt like it was ballooning a bit. But was effortless and felt easier to find the center of the face than normal. 

Had to gather some more data, so next day i rented the studio with an actual trackman for an hour. This confirmed my suspicions, spin on good shots were anywhere from 3000-3500. Club speed was up around 1 mph and ball speed up around 2 mph compared to standard shaft. Distance was marginally down. Only way I could get spin approaching 2500 was hitting a slinging hook.

A saner person then myself might have concluded the experiment here. But I figured, why not try another head? Since I have no clue how to switch the sleave I am limited to g400 heads. I find a used g400 LST 8,5 degree online. Understandably he is not interested in selling only the head, so now I have an extra regular shaft as well. Head of to the range again today with my new head with the PLB. Ball flight is so much better, launching around 15 but not ballooning into the wind. Have not tried it in the studio yet but would be shocked if the spin isnt much lower. Best part is it feels just as easy to hit as the old one. Still have one degree more to play with, as this head can come down to 7,5 if needed.

Thanks for this thread, has been a fun ride. Looking forward to the course opening in March hopefully! Of course by then maybe with some speed training I might need a senior flex

Thanks for the detailed post, Karlan, it's useful to hear experiences from as many people as possible.  And yes, it's been common for people to lower the loft of their driver head to get their best results so you're not alone in that by any means.

Keep us posted, ok?

[Davre]

This is REALLY interesting to me. Back in the early 00's my pro gave me a Tour issue TM R7 460 that had a Fuji TP55 S in it. SW was right on D1 and it measured out at 45.5". It was effortless bombs for two years until the shaft broke. I have never been able to replicate that club - and I think it's because I have been following all of my fitters' recommendations and not trying anything outside of the box. Looks like I've got some trackman time in my future. 

[cksurfdude]

New question for anyone who's decided they're gonna stick with an O-P shaft -- any thoughts on changing your regular golf ball, vs sticking with your normal gamer??

[Bobbers]

1 hour ago, cksurfdude said:

New question for anyone who's decided they're gonna stick with an O-P shaft -- any thoughts on changing your regular golf ball, vs sticking with your normal gamer??

I've been working on "which ball is best for me?" at the same time the O-PH experimentation has been going on so my answer is a qualified "sorta" given that one didn't provoke the other.  Sorry I can't be more definitive.

[Bang60]

2 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

New question for anyone who's decided they're gonna stick with an O-P shaft -- any thoughts on changing your regular golf ball, vs sticking with your normal gamer??

Well for me variety is the spice of life lol...

[Rchang]

Am wondering if the magic sauce is the swing weight irrespective of the flex? Anyone tried a regular or stiff with D0 swing weight?

[Bang60]

2 minutes ago, Rchang said:

Am wondering if the magic sauce is the swing weight irrespective of the flex? Anyone tried a regular or stiff with D0 swing weight?

Interesting point @Rchang, I think I've got a TM driver shaft I could try ... like you're thinking outside the square...

[BadgerRick]

1 hour ago, Rchang said:

Am wondering if the magic sauce is the swing weight irrespective of the flex? Anyone tried a regular or stiff with D0 swing weight?

yes, I have an Xcaliber ultra light X flex in my Callaway, around 50 grams, really good and stout shaft. My carry with that has been around 285, and with the Grafalloy PLB my carry is around 300, and my swing speed is a few mph faster. 

[Bobbers]

4 hours ago, Rchang said:

Am wondering if the magic sauce is the swing weight irrespective of the flex? Anyone tried a regular or stiff with D0 swing weight?

I have.  And the improvements I see with the O-PH concept being applied have, for me, been very noticeable.  For  me it's the combination of swing weight AND lighter flex.  Again, that's just one person's experience.

[azstu324]

4 hours ago, Rchang said:

Am wondering if the magic sauce is the swing weight irrespective of the flex? Anyone tried a regular or stiff with D0 swing weight?

I've tried a heavier and stiffer more standard version at D0 and it's not for me. I always needed to play at least D4 in my conventional setup or else I just couldn't maintain a playable tempo and the feeling just wasn't enjoyable. 

D0-D1 in OP really doesn't play or feel the same as D1 in standard. It feels more like D4+ but requires much less effort to load and release. I think this is a multi-part equation. Shaft and total weight + SW + flex = results

[vandyland]

Hit the GPLB A flex shaft today on Trackman and was having no issue turning it over a bit. Must have just been a swing issue on the day OR I hit the ball better on Trackman (both could be true). Anyway, setup was a 10.5 loft with the heavy weight in the back (12g) using a 45 g Grafalloy Prolaunch Blue shaft. Here are the numbers for me:

vs my current "ideal setup" which is a "stiff" shaft that has a ton of torque (6.0) so it feels whippy, with the driver head turned down to 9.5* and the 12g weight in the back:

 

A few things to note is that I obviously have a larger sample size with the "ideal" setup and was swinging considerably faster. All that said, the results are encouraging on the Pro Launch Blue. Basically the launch angles are similar which is interesting and the spin is lower. Not what I would have expected. Dispersion is probably a tad better with the ideal setup (for now) but carry isn't that much different when you take into account the swing speed difference. 

[azstu324]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

Hit the GPLB A flex shaft today on Trackman and was having no issue turning it over a bit. Must have just been a swing issue on the day OR I hit the ball better on Trackman (both could be true). Anyway, setup was a 10.5 loft with the heavy weight in the back (12g) using a 45 g Grafalloy Prolaunch Blue shaft. Here are the numbers for me:

vs my current "ideal setup" which is a "stiff" shaft that has a ton of torque (6.0) so it feels whippy, with the driver head turned down to 9.5* and the 12g weight in the back:

 

A few things to note is that I obviously have a larger sample size with the "ideal" setup and was swinging considerably faster. All that said, the results are encouraging on the Pro Launch Blue. Basically the launch angles are similar which is interesting and the spin is lower. Not what I would have expected. Dispersion is probably a tad better with the ideal setup (for now) but carry isn't that much different when you take into account the swing speed difference. 

Very interesting.. You try turning the PLB down all the way? Efficiency is higher with the Garafalloy . I bet there's a secret code in there somewhere to unlock the distance. Just gotta keep playing the game. 

[Bang60]

@azstu324 please delete this if it's out of order but I don't have another forum to ask, I've seen this advert a few times and would like to convert my bicycle. Has anyone tried and did it work?

[azstu324]

2 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

@azstu324 please delete this if it's out of order but I don't have another forum to ask, I've seen this advert a few times and would like to convert my bicycle. Has anyone tried and did it work?

Man I wouldn't even know where to start with this one. I haven't owned a bike in 15 years. 

[vandyland]

2 hours ago, azstu324 said:

Very interesting.. You try turning the PLB down all the way? Efficiency is higher with the Garafalloy . I bet there's a secret code in there somewhere to unlock the distance. Just gotta keep playing the game. 

I didn’t but will try that. What is an ideal launch angle at my speed? 14*? I am reading it is between 13-16* so I am probably still slightly high but I know two easy ways to bring that down (1) lofting down as you mentioned and (2) reducing the back weight or removing it all together.

[GolfSpy TCB]

On 11/30/2022 at 4:59 PM, Bobbers said:

I have.  And the improvements I see with the O-PH concept being applied have, for me, been very noticeable.  For  me it's the combination of swing weight AND lighter flex.  Again, that's just one person's experience.

I 2nd this.  These are my findings as well.  

[Bobbers]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

I didn’t but will try that. What is an ideal launch angle at my speed? 14*? I am reading it is between 13-16* so I am probably still slightly high but I know two easy ways to bring that down (1) lofting down as you mentioned and (2) reducing the back weight or removing it all together.

Unfortunately the answer is "try both".  We're in uncharted territory so the more people who are willing/able to "play around" a bit with some of the possible variants the more we'll be able to home in on some of the buried truth we're trying to uncover.

My "hunch", and that's what it is at this juncture, is that lofting down is probably your best, and certainly easiest, move.  I'd not be surprised to see carry go up a bit as well as total distance, even with a speed that's lower than what you're charting with your "ideal" set up.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Bobbers

[Bobbers]

1 hour ago, Bang60 said:

@azstu324 please delete this if it's out of order but I don't have another forum to ask, I've seen this advert a few times and would like to convert my bicycle. Has anyone tried and did it work?

I'm at the age where my interest in electric bikes is inversely related to the brittleness of my bones.  If it were me I'd simply google "reviews of ebikeschool.com" and see what pops up.  If nothing shows?  Wait for the guinea pigs to surface or ditch the idea.

[Bang60]

6 hours ago, azstu324 said:

Man I wouldn't even know where to start with this one. I haven't owned a bike in 15 years. 

I've on a bike off and on all my life, not so much recently it's why I need help with peddle power..

[Bang60]

5 hours ago, Bobbers said:

I'm at the age where my interest in electric bikes is inversely related to the brittleness of my bones.  If it were me I'd simply google "reviews of ebikeschool.com" and see what pops up.  If nothing shows?  Wait for the guinea pigs to surface or ditch the idea.

@Bobbers appreciate your input will try that, never thought of those search parameters. Just the heads up I was looking for, cheers..

[vandyland]

So I searched the MGS site and found this old (like a decade old) article on shaft flex -- Wrong Shaft Flex

First and foremost, they did not test senior or lady flex shafts. Only X-Stiff, Stiff and Regular. I will spoil the article with this chart that I think properly dispels the "XXX mph should swing an X shaft" trope:

 

Now, to some earlier points, I think we are collecting a solid amount of data for MGS to do another article and, specifically, over this idea that you can copy an AutoFlex's (or just a smooth, whippy shaft) rather inexpensively and that it will have surprising results (for some). Not taking shots at anyone but I find that more interesting and aligned with MyGolfSpy's mission rather than "Spy Kicks" (I mean, it's just shoes) or "gift guides".

 

 

[azstu324]

1 hour ago, vandyland said:

Not taking shots at anyone but I find that more interesting and aligned with MyGolfSpy's mission rather than "Spy Kicks" (I mean, it's just shoes) or "gift guides".

This is me NOT disagreeing

It's gotta be a matter of time before an article or video goes up on what we're doing here. It's all too compelling and interesting not to. 

Good find BTW! 

[Bobbers]

3 hours ago, azstu324 said:

This is me NOT disagreeing

It's gotta be a matter of time before an article or video goes up on what we're doing here. It's all too compelling and interesting not to. 

Good find BTW! 

My hope, and I know I speak only for myself, is that any effort in this area would include some of us in the 70-80 mph driver swing speed.  Age is a "******" but it does eventually get us all if we're lucky enough to hang around.

I read a LOT of what gets posted here and on other sites.  I have a hard time finding anyone, regardless of age/handicap that doesn't have "an average drive for me is 220-240" on up to "my typical drive in the 295+ carry range".  Hard to express how disheartening that is.  You'll note in earlier posts how pleased I am that the O-PH concept gets me around 175-180 yards; up from 160-165...

But when I look at the "retro" videos that compare an older driver with it's new counterpart I see numbers for the "slow swing speed/below 90 mph" showing that even with the new driver the average drive is in the 180 yard range.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Bobbers

[Bang60]

One thing I'm 100% positively certain of is when using a lady's 40gram shaft that "LOW loft" is key, I played with a visitor to my club and he let me hit one drive with his 12deg 50gram driver lady flex shaft that went straight up with distance of 120 metres. I've now got a pinched nerve behind my left shoulder that's killing me even though I'm taking ibuprofen and paracetamol. I'm not sure when I'll be ready to hit balls again as it's extreme 'paid' painful when I turn to the right...

Edited December 3, 2022 by Bang60
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