Shaft Hack - The Otto Phlex Journey

[azstu324]

2 hours ago, FLefty18 said:

I have learned something:  I have to play the butter cut with the softer shafts. These Honmas are such missile launchers that hitting a 190 yard 7i that lands with a big hop isn’t practical. But the cut shot with these softer shafts is reliable and lands like a pillow at 175-180. I may put something stiffer in later but it’s fun playing these shots and if I have to launch one to a 200yard par 3 I can go at it with a little draw. 

FWIW, I've always heard that the cut will spin more and land with much better stopping power. If you can control it then your $

 

[FLefty18]

1 hour ago, azstu324 said:

FWIW, I've always heard that the cut will spin more and land with much better stopping power. If you can control it then your $

 

First actual round in my money group tomorrow. We’ll give it a shot to start out- if it’s not working, it’s Nuke city time. 

[DukeStKing]

So I came up with this idea to counterbalance Otto Phlex set-up and get the swing weight right: I took leftover Arccos sensors and add washers to them as needed. Just screw the sensors into the top of the grip and boom- done. This should make tinkering easier. 
Anyone see a problem with the method. For instance, I’m measuring to the end of the club, which is now the end of the sensor- would that throw off the calculation when using the following: http://www.leaderboard.com/SWINGWEIGHT

? 

What do you all think? 

[Bobbers]

1 hour ago, DukeStKing said:

So I came up with this idea to counterbalance Otto Phlex set-up and get the swing weight right: I took leftover Arccos sensors and add washers to them as needed. Just screw the sensors into the top of the grip and boom- done. This should make tinkering easier. 
Anyone see a problem with the method. For instance, I’m measuring to the end of the club, which is now the end of the sensor- would that throw off the calculation when using the following: http://www.leaderboard.com/SWINGWEIGHT

? 

What do you all think? 

I hope I can word this accurately enough for it to make sense. 

First, great idea!

If it were me I'd remain aware of the fact that, as it appears, adding the devices pictured to the butt of the existing club is going to increase the length by "x" amount. 

IF your intention is to play the club with the Arcoss in place you can proceed with the calculation without any adjustment.

IF your intention is to use the device to figure out what sort of counterweight you'd be wanting to add to the butt of the shaft and over which you'd be installing the grip you're going to have to fudge the calculation to reduce the length of the club by the added length  of the Arcoss. 

Does that make sense?

It's not intended as a criticism, I love the idea you've come up with.  I just hate to see you miscalculate and end up with a club that doesn't work for you in the optimal manner.

[Bang60]

1 hour ago, DukeStKing said:

So I came up with this idea to counterbalance Otto Phlex set-up and get the swing weight right: I took leftover Arccos sensors and add washers to them as needed. Just screw the sensors into the top of the grip and boom- done. This should make tinkering easier. 
Anyone see a problem with the method. For instance, I’m measuring to the end of the club, which is now the end of the sensor- would that throw off the calculation when using the following: http://www.leaderboard.com/SWINGWEIGHT

? 

What do you all think? 

Actually thought I'd posted my reply but it's not there, but I love any thinking outside the square. I have one Arccos off a cobra hybrid I bought, my O-P driver is 44.5inches so I'd like to know what a quarter inch makes to lady's shaft...

[DukeStKing]

16 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

I hope I can word this accurately enough for it to make sense. 

First, great idea!

If it were me I'd remain aware of the fact that, as it appears, adding the devices pictured to the butt of the existing club is going to increase the length by "x" amount. 

IF your intention is to play the club with the Arcoss in place you can proceed with the calculation without any adjustment.

IF your intention is to use the device to figure out what sort of counterweight you'd be wanting to add to the butt of the shaft and over which you'd be installing the grip you're going to have to fudge the calculation to reduce the length of the club by the added length  of the Arcoss. 

Does that make sense?

It's not intended as a criticism, I love the idea you've come up with.  I just hate to see you miscalculate and end up with a club that doesn't work for you in the optimal manner.

Not worried about being criticized my man- this is why I posted it. Call it “peer review” or vetting- either way, if its bad science, the idea should fall by the wayside.

I no longer use the sensors as I now use my Garmin 80 to keep track of distances, so this is just meant to counterweight the club to bring it down to the desired swing weight of D0 or D1. Sounds like you don’t think that’ll work.

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by DukeStKing

[Bobbers]

12 minutes ago, DukeStKing said:

Not worried about being criticized my man- this is why I posted it. Call it “peer review” or vetting- either way, if its bad science, the idea should fall by the wayside.

I no longer use the sensors as I now use my Garmin 80 to keep track of distances, so this is just meant to counterweight the club to bring it down to the desired swing weight of D0 or D1. Sounds like you don’t think that’ll work.

 

No, your idea WILL work.  I just wanted to make sure that if you were using the sensors temporarily to find the right counterweight, then removing them and installing a more traditional weight UNDER the grip that you'd adjust your calculations of swing weight accordingly.

Your idea is GREAT.

[Bobbers]

19 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

Actually thought I'd posted my reply but it's not there, but I love any thinking outside the square. I have one Arccos off a cobra hybrid I bought, my O-P driver is 44.5inches so I'd like to know what a quarter inch makes to lady's shaft...

Is the Arccos only going to add 1/4 inch to the club?  Or is it 3/8 or ??  Take a measurement, post it here and I'll figure it out for you tomorrow.  I can't, unfortunately, get to it this evening.

[DukeStKing]

49 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

Is the Arccos only going to add 1/4 inch to the club?  Or is it 3/8 or ??  Take a measurement, post it here and I'll figure it out for you tomorrow.  I can't, unfortunately, get to it this evening.

Looks like it’s 3/8 of an inch. The red is the end of the grip, the green and black are the sensor. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by DukeStKing

[azstu324]

So on the topic of OP irons. Some of you may know that I was selected for the MGS Nippon 850 Neo testing. This is a tough one for me to decide as the last thing I want to do is choose a flex that won't allow me maximize every angle of the shafts potential and prevent me from doing a thorough legitimate review. I also have to remember that I'm doing this test primarily for MGS and Nippon and not for the OP thread.. BUT it would be really sweet to kind of dona double test for both threads if possible. 

Well tonight I was able to get a little sneak peak of how the Neo performs. I'll admit that the shaft that I tested tonight wasn't an exact match but it was a 950 NEO as there were no 850s available. After tonight's test, I feel pretty confident in saying that I think the R flex will actually work. I realize that steel R flex 95g might not be a true OP but I'm hoping that the 85g version playing + 1/2" will put me closer to acceptable OP specs. 

The two clubs compared are my current Maltby TS-1 7i @ 32° with 115g FCM Precision Rifle 6.5 shaft and a Srixon ZX7 @ 32° with the Nippon 950 NEO. These 2 clubs should be fairly comparable to each other as far as performance and intended market. 

Maltby TS-1

ZX7

The interesting bits are the ball speed, carry, launch, height, and spin are all higher on the Srixon. Disbursement is identical. I didn't change anything from one to the other as far as how hard I was swinging the club. Each club got the 75% treatment but yielded pretty significantly different results. 

Now.. here's a question for anyone who's carried the experiment over to their irons. Did you treat the SW the same? Did you keep it relatively low @ D0-D1 as you would the driver? Or did you go a little higher? OR did you do anything progressive? Now I'm just faced with the dilemma of how I'm going to have my clubs built. I'm thinking progressive SW but within a fairly tight range. I.e. D0 in 4 - 5, D1 in 6 - 7, D2 in 8-9, and D3 in P-GW. 

Thoughts? Input? 

 

 

 

[Bobbers]

6 hours ago, azstu324 said:

So on the topic of OP irons. Some of you may know that I was selected for the MGS Nippon 850 Neo testing. This is a tough one for me to decide as the last thing I want to do is choose a flex that won't allow me maximize every angle of the shafts potential and prevent me from doing a thorough legitimate review. I also have to remember that I'm doing this test primarily for MGS and Nippon and not for the OP thread.. BUT it would be really sweet to kind of dona double test for both threads if possible. 

Well tonight I was able to get a little sneak peak of how the Neo performs. I'll admit that the shaft that I tested tonight wasn't an exact match but it was a 950 NEO as there were no 850s available. After tonight's test, I feel pretty confident in saying that I think the R flex will actually work. I realize that steel R flex 95g might not be a true OP but I'm hoping that the 85g version playing + 1/2" will put me closer to acceptable OP specs. 

The two clubs compared are my current Maltby TS-1 7i @ 32° with 115g FCM Precision Rifle 6.5 shaft and a Srixon ZX7 @ 32° with the Nippon 950 NEO. These 2 clubs should be fairly comparable to each other as far as performance and intended market. 

Maltby TS-1

ZX7

The interesting bits are the ball speed, carry, launch, height, and spin are all higher on the Srixon. Disbursement is identical. I didn't change anything from one to the other as far as how hard I was swinging the club. Each club got the 75% treatment but yielded pretty significantly different results. 

Now.. here's a question for anyone who's carried the experiment over to their irons. Did you treat the SW the same? Did you keep it relatively low @ D0-D1 as you would the driver? Or did you go a little higher? OR did you do anything progressive? Now I'm just faced with the dilemma of how I'm going to have my clubs built. I'm thinking progressive SW but within a fairly tight range. I.e. D0 in 4 - 5, D1 in 6 - 7, D2 in 8-9, and D3 in P-GW. 

Thoughts? Input? 

 

 

 

My intention is to hit D0 through the 9 iron and D1 in the P-GW.  But again, there's such a difference in our swing speeds that I'm compelled to say "that's just me".

The good news is I KNOW you'll keep us posted.

I concur with your going with the R flex in case there was any doubt where I stood...heh heh.

[Bobbers]

Did the "what effect on swing weight can I expect as the club gets longer?" test.

I took a driver and "added" 3/8 of an inch to the length.  To simulate the effect of adding an Arrcos sensor to the butt end.

Have to admit, the results are interesting.  To me at least.

Every 1/8" that was added to the length of the club increased the swing weight by 1 swing weight point.

So by adding 3/8 of an inch the overall swing weight, using a swing weight scale, not the paper and pencil calculation, took the driver from D0 to D3.

Conclusion: seemingly "little" changes can actually have big impacts.

Hope this helps.

[vandyland]

21 hours ago, carter18 said:

Vandy, did you play in the Nashville area?

Yes, typically play McCabe or Harpeth Hills as I live right in between them. I love Greystone but it is usually too far of a drive for me to get out there more than once a year since I have small children. 

Also, my dad (who hasn't played golf in 15 years) still has a set of ping eye 2 beryllium copper irons that are regular flex. I have always wanted an excuse to regrip these and get them back out on the golf course and the otto-phlex experiment might be just the reason. Now, one slight complication is the fact that these irons have very traditional lofts so I will have to get used to that. The 7 iron is 36* which isn't too much weaker than my current irons (2* difference) but the PW is 50* (which is 4* weaker). So it won't be a true apples to apples comparison but I guess if dispersion is better and I can hit a carry number (albeit shorter) more consistently....that's the whole key to scoring better. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by vandyland

[FLefty18]

Took the OP Honmas out for their first round. Shot my target score and my partner carried us with a win. Definite easier to hit reg 85g than XStiff 130 KBS. Just had to trust the fade- tried to muscle a 7i draw on one hole and yanked the butt out if it into the water. Other than that, pretty fades and easy distance all day. 

[azstu324]

45 minutes ago, FLefty18 said:

Took the OP Honmas out for their first round. Shot my target score and my partner carried us with a win. Definite easier to hit reg 85g than XStiff 130 KBS. Just had to trust the fade- tried to muscle a 7i draw on one hole and yanked the butt out if it into the water. Other than that, pretty fades and easy distance all day. 

Man that's awesome! And very confidence inspiring for me in my next adventure with the Nippon 850 NEO's. 

You might have mentioned earlier but what do you have your SW's at? 

 

[DukeStKing]

Any updates using the Ping Distanza 40 gram?  I got a deal on one for my G425 Max. Hoping it works. 
 

[Bang60]

23 hours ago, Bobbers said:

Is the Arccos only going to add 1/4 inch to the club?  Or is it 3/8 or ??  Take a measurement, post it here and I'll figure it out for you tomorrow.  I can't, unfortunately, get to it this evening.

I couldn't remove it with my hands, can I use visegrips or pliers something that won't damage it?

[Bobbers]

2 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

I couldn't remove it with my hands, can I use visegrips or pliers something that won't damage it?

We'll have to wait for someone who knows more about those gizmos, Bang.  I myself can't answer that question.

[FLefty18]

44 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

Man that's awesome! And very confidence inspiring for me in my next adventure with the Nippon 850 NEO's. 

You might have mentioned earlier but what do you have your SW's at? 

 

Per Honma’s site 5 & 6i are D0 

7-PW are D1 .. everything feels very easy to swing. And man is that Japanese steel butter soft. 

[Bang60]

Just now, Bobbers said:

We'll have to wait for someone who knows more about those gizmos, Bang.  I myself can't answer that question.

Ahhh I'm not keen on doing anything that might damage it, I don't have the hand strength anymore but I'll take it to the pro shop see how strong they are lol...

[azstu324]

1 hour ago, Bang60 said:

Ahhh I'm not keen on doing anything that might damage it, I don't have the hand strength anymore but I'll take it to the pro shop see how strong they are lol...

Yeah those cobra sensors are REALLY seated in there tightly. You might be able to pry it out with a flat head. I cut one out once and it was like performing surgery. They do have like a plastic shrink cover to protect it if I recall 

[Bang60]

39 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

Yeah those cobra sensors are REALLY seated in there tightly. You might be able to pry it out with a flat head. I cut one out once and it was like performing surgery. They do have like a plastic shrink cover to protect it if I recall 

Yeah I removed the plastic no problem, I'm actually wondering if there's some glue holding the sensor in the grip. 

[azstu324]

1 hour ago, Bang60 said:

Yeah I removed the plastic no problem, I'm actually wondering if there's some glue holding the sensor in the grip. 

I don't think there is. Pretty sure it's just molded rubber around the sensor

[DukeStKing]

On 12/6/2022 at 7:49 AM, Bobbers said:

Did the "what effect on swing weight can I expect as the club gets longer?" test.

I took a driver and "added" 3/8 of an inch to the length.  To simulate the effect of adding an Arrcos sensor to the butt end.

Have to admit, the results are interesting.  To me at least.

Every 1/8" that was added to the length of the club increased the swing weight by 1 swing weight point.

So by adding 3/8 of an inch the overall swing weight, using a swing weight scale, not the paper and pencil calculation, took the driver from D0 to D3.

Conclusion: seemingly "little" changes can actually have big impacts.

Hope this helps.

I’m going to see if adding the washers inside the sensors may offset the 3/8 of an inch’s effect upon the swing weight. Do you think that’s a bad idea as it will add to the total weight? 

Edited December 7, 2022 by DukeStKing

[Bobbers]

3 hours ago, DukeStKing said:

I’m going to see if adding the washers inside the sensors may offset the 3/8 of an inch’s effect upon the swing weight. Do you think that’s a bad idea as it will add to the total weight? 

The wee bit of weight will be under your left hand at the top of the shaft, it won't be noticeable to you in any practical way.

[DukeStKing]

4 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

The wee bit of weight will be under your left hand at the top of the shaft, it won't be noticeable to you in any practical way.

That’s what I was worried about- the dynamic swing weight won’t be affected (the head won’t feel lighter).

[Karlan]

I have been thinking of trying a lighter shaft for my callaway utility wood as well. The problem is I have no idea what shaft might be appropriate. I have the PLB 45g in L in my driver. The current shaft in my utility wood is a project x hzrdus black 70g stiff. It is 41,5 in length and the swing weight is D3-D4 according to the Callaway website. Im looking for the same feel to slightly stiffer than the driver. I guess the swing weight should be D1 as in the driver? Id like to play it the same length as it is now. Any ideas for a shaft?

[Bang60]

I'm hoping to buy a set of 1997 Mizuno 1 3 5 Woods and 4 6 sand irons with lady's shafts so I can try them out, there old but cheap so I'm hoping to try the 4iron shaft in my MP 57 5 iron head. From what I've read online that lady's 4iron shaft should be a good fitter in the 5iron head, I will post my results...

[azstu324]

56 minutes ago, Karlan said:

I have been thinking of trying a lighter shaft for my callaway utility wood as well. The problem is I have no idea what shaft might be appropriate. I have the PLB 45g in L in my driver. The current shaft in my utility wood is a project x hzrdus black 70g stiff. It is 41,5 in length and the swing weight is D3-D4 according to the Callaway website. Im looking for the same feel to slightly stiffer than the driver. I guess the swing weight should be D1 as in the driver? Id like to play it the same length as it is now. Any ideas for a shaft?

If this takes a wood shaft (.335"), I have a suggestion that I stumbled on by accident. Check out the Garafalloy GWX. I had originally bought this one to compare to the PLB. It just ended up being a little heavier and playing a hair too stiff.. BUT, it ended up being a perfect (for me) 3 wood shaft. I've got it in my 3 wood and don't plan to take it out. The lightest flex though is A but that should fit the bill for an S flex option. 

[Karlan]

42 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

If this takes a wood shaft (.335"), I have a suggestion that I stumbled on by accident. Check out the Garafalloy GWX. I had originally bought this one to compare to the PLB. It just ended up being a little heavier and playing a hair too stiff.. BUT, it ended up being a perfect (for me) 3 wood shaft. I've got it in my 3 wood and don't plan to take it out. The lightest flex though is A but that should fit the bill for an S flex option. 

Thanks! It is my understanding that it takes wood and not hybrid shafts. Unfortunately I could not find any site that ships that shaft to Sweden. Could a PLB in A flex work? Are wood shafts generally the same as driver shafts? Im thinking if a driver shaft is cut down to 41,5 in, would that not make it play very differently or am I missing something?