Shaft Hack - The Otto Phlex Journey

[Ding-dong]

10 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

Would you say that the PLB is maybe a little more reliable? My observation over months of using it is that it's suitable for a variety of my imperfect swing traits and when my swing is on point, it's a beast.. AND can really handle some extra juice when applied. 

As for the 3 wood idea, a group of us have really found the Garafalloy GWX sold through Golf works to be a great wood option. Same price as the PLB but a few grams heavier and feels great in a 3 wood. 

I think the PLB is quite inert to head weight and lets you step on it when you want. I am still sorting myself out, I really have been dreadful these last few years. 
I was always a smooth swinger with fluid transition… this allows me to drop flexes and play pretty much anything, it’s just I have not taken advantage of this. 
I think this helped with Autoflex, it doesn’t like aggressive transitions and head weight was a real problem. PLB isn’t that fussy, and it’s pretty stout even in L flex. 
But the more I used the more I like it, I have a bail out shot that goes right to left, and I can dial down my power .. it gives options and my scoring will benefit.

[DukeStKing]

On 2/27/2023 at 2:45 PM, DukeStKing said:

Either driver head ended up being the Paradym. I finally pulled the trigger after a fitting session at PGA SS- my numbers with the Paradym were a lot better. So here’s the head weight of the Paradym- 2 grams lighter than the Rogue. Should be even easier to Otto Phlex it… so I have that going for me, which is nice. 

So I finally switched the adapters on my Grafalloy PLB and man the Callaway adapter must be so much heavier than the Ping- I didn’t weigh them before installing (I regret that now). The swing weight with the lighter Paradym head is D4 with the same set up as the Ping G425 (grip and length) and the Ping was D1. So I have to start experimenting again- I don’t want to get a lighter head weight for the Paradym so I may cut the length of the shaft. 
Thoughts? 

[Ding-dong]

Can’t you add weight grip side? I was using the Callaway adapter and rogue head around 194-196 grams and autoflex was 45,5” long . Club builder balanced it out using a layer of grip tape, mcc +4 mid size grip . 

[DukeStKing]

On 3/19/2023 at 11:19 AM, Ding-dong said:

Can’t you add weight grip side? I was using the Callaway adapter and rogue head around 194-196 grams and autoflex was 45,5” long . Club builder balanced it out using a layer of grip tape, mcc +4 mid size grip . 

I had the midsize grip on the old set-up with the Ping. So I’ll put a Jumbo grip on and that should do it. 

[azstu324]

8 minutes ago, DukeStKing said:

I had the midsize grip on the old set-up with the Ping. So I’ll put a Jumbo grip on and that should do it. 

You could also run a strip of lead tape under the grip to add weight without having to go to a bigger sized grip

[Ding-dong]

Weigh the head , if you’re over 200g you may struggle.. all I have read has suggested it’s a problem. Some went up a flex, which seems counter intuitive.

It has been confirmed they will replace my AF, I have requested a tour adapter so will see, otherwise I will back to back and see if I can make it objective

[azstu324]

6 minutes ago, Ding-dong said:

Weigh the head , if you’re over 200g you may struggle.. all I have read has suggested it’s a problem. Some went up a flex, which seems counter intuitive.

It has been confirmed they will replace my AF, I have requested a tour adapter so will see, otherwise I will back to back and see if I can make it objective

Hey if you end up liking the PLB better, you just made $500+ when you sell that whip stick

[Ding-dong]

10 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

Hey if you end up liking the PLB better, you just made $500+ when you sell that whip stick

Well maybe nearly broke even … I was thinking should I get it prepped for the 3 wood but to be honest 45.5 “ and a Callaway adapter may make it easier to move on if need be. But it won’t hit  500 dollars .. in the U.K. they are even more sceptical !

I was 20+ yards beyond both the guys at the weekend on the 18th hole, this was the only time I really went after it. I told them it was a lady shaft and they were a bit non plussed.. both were happy with their 70g stiff flex drivers , so that’s okay because they are the ones losing out. 

[azstu324]

21 minutes ago, Ding-dong said:

I was 20+ yards beyond both the guys at the weekend on the 18th hole, this was the only time I really went after it. I told them it was a lady shaft and they were a bit non plussed.. both were happy with their 70g stiff flex drivers , so that’s okay because they are the ones losing out. 

Yeah prides a tough pill to swallow in this sport. 

Haven't converted any of my close golf buddies either.. even when I'm consistently out driving them and in the my middle of the fairway. 

[IndyBonzo]

Curious for those of you who have had this work - what swing adjustments have you made, if any?   

[azstu324]

58 minutes ago, IndyBonzo said:

Curious for those of you who have had this work - what swing adjustments have you made, if any?   

The only real swing adjustment I made, and I think this is important regardless of shaft change, is making sure my tempo is nice and even and synched up with my body rotation. 

I've always had a relatively low spinning drive as well as the ability to hit up on the ball without issue. My club path is pretty consistently in to out which I think helps keep spin lower.. but can also contribute to the pull hook if I'm getting ahead of myself, hence keeping my tempo and body connected. 

The biggest overall club adjustment that I think I made was to drop the head loft to 7.5°. 

 

[Bang60]

1 hour ago, IndyBonzo said:

Curious for those of you who have had this work - what swing adjustments have you made, if any?   

I've tried to be alot smoother in my swing which has actually got me into better habits, I'm watching the ball on the Tee upto contact whereas I wasn't doing that before...

[Ding-dong]

1 hour ago, IndyBonzo said:

Curious for those of you who have had this work - what swing adjustments have you made, if any?   

If you’re asking about the PBL ? Then nothing but I believe it’s more stable or shall we say less disconcerting than AF.

Lots of problems happen when you force speed in from the top. I was prone to doing this but I started to just relax and swing, less is more was the swing thought. Now I am reigning the over the top in and it’s more in to out but this is all related to my take away, my tempo hasn’t changed as in its fluid … so it’s like previous comments about lag training , I suppose . Just build your swing up from half to full and relax, don’t hit a ball just swing the club and let it find its drop. Then hit a few balls … your body should adjust, don’t think about the distance .. it will happen. 
I dunno if this is the same for anyone else but thinking you’re going to really hit it really means total failure. I think subconsciously I force it and that is why it’s a disaster.. it’s hard to explain

[peakation]

I broke 160 BS yesterday for the first time!
Thanks to PLB A and being more patient in the transition. Softer shaft definitely helped! Distance is in meters... 

Thanks to all for taking me on this journey. Next goal is >110 CHS.

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by peakation

[Bang60]

3 minutes ago, peakation said:

I broke 160 BS yesterday for the first time!
Thanks to PLB A and being more patient in the transition. Softer shaft definitely helped! Distance is in meters... 

Thanks to all for taking me on this journey. Next goal is >110 CHS.

 

Nice work keep it up...

[azstu324]

6 hours ago, peakation said:

I broke 160 BS yesterday for the first time!
Thanks to PLB A and being more patient in the transition. Softer shaft definitely helped! Distance is in meters... 

Thanks to all for taking me on this journey. Next goal is >110 CHS.

 

Them's some really good looking #'s! I think you nailed it with having "patience" and just staying composed in your swing. 

Nice work!

[DukeStKing]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:29 AM, DukeStKing said:

So I finally switched the adapters on my Grafalloy PLB and man the Callaway adapter must be so much heavier than the Ping- I didn’t weigh them before installing (I regret that now). The swing weight with the lighter Paradym head is D4 with the same set up as the Ping G425 (grip and length) and the Ping was D1. So I have to start experimenting again- I don’t want to get a lighter head weight for the Paradym so I may cut the length of the shaft. 
Thoughts? 

Posting this as an idea for others. I found an old Tour Lock (30 grams) in my garage- and my wife is always telling me to thro w things out- that’ll show her. I used to use them in my putters. I took the brass weight off and put a nut on and it was down to 17 grams. I drilled a hole in the top of my grip and installed it- used some crazy glue to secure it to the grip - it’s flush to the top and done. The nut being slightly larger than the brass weight makes it sit securely inside the shaft. 17 grams of counter-weight got me to D1. The beauty of this method is you can experiment with different nut sizes until you get it at the swing weight you want without having ti purchase different counter weights. 
Going to the range tonight to make sure the set-up works well in the Paradym, then off to Florida this weekend. 

[peakation]

11 hours ago, DukeStKing said:

Posting this as an idea for others. I found an old Tour Lock (30 grams) in my garage- and my wife is always telling me to thro w things out- that’ll show her. I used to use them in my putters. I took the brass weight off and put a nut on and it was down to 17 grams. I drilled a hole in the top of my grip and installed it- used some crazy glue to secure it to the grip - it’s flush to the top and done. The nut being slightly larger than the brass weight makes it sit securely inside the shaft. 17 grams of counter-weight got me to D1. The beauty of this method is you can experiment with different nut sizes until you get it at the swing weight you want without having ti purchase different counter weights. 
Going to the range tonight to make sure the set-up works well in the Paradym, then off to Florida this weekend. 

I have started to think of SW as more of a theoretical thing. How is the feel swinging the club when you put the counterweight in? My thought is that it is more weight in the hands and that would ultimately slow me down, yet SW is low. I don't know if it makes sense? I haven't tried the counterweights route myself as I got down to a reasonable SW with head weights.
The analogy is swinging a light or heavy dumbell. The counterweight is so light in comparison so I don't know if it has any negative effects.

[Ding-dong]

For me swing weight is feel, the actual weight can be disguised… but I am a gorilla.

But I will caveat that statement, gorillas do get tired over the round, so you may not feel it but the energy consumption is up. 
 

I have been planning some objective testing and the conversation took an interesting turn. I mentioned the shaft weight and that’s when a bit of negativity slipped in, 60g is normal this is away from normal etc…

But normal based on recent history. Steel shafts were pretty mono dimensional they lacked bespoke bend profiles, they are just rolled sheets of metal . There is maybe some finessing in the tapering etc … but graphite shafts are a world apart regarding manipulation of profile. I also said I suspect the hickory club makers were probably artisans and manipulated the bend profiles as well … steel just took the fidelity of it all off the table. 
 

anyway that’s just engineering stuff and might be a bit too much .. sorry, I go in this direction 

[DukeStKing]

2 hours ago, peakation said:

I have started to think of SW as more of a theoretical thing. How is the feel swinging the club when you put the counterweight in? My thought is that it is more weight in the hands and that would ultimately slow me down, yet SW is low. I don't know if it makes sense? I haven't tried the counterweights route myself as I got down to a reasonable SW with head weights.
The analogy is swinging a light or heavy dumbell. The counterweight is so light in comparison so I don't know if it has any negative effects.

Funny that you should bring this up. When I had my Ping 425 head I replaced the head weight to get the swing weight down. The club felt really light. At the range yesterday, I was comparing the OP with the stock Hzrdus Silver 50 gram that is got fitted with when I got the Paradym and the Ventus Red 5s  I had in my Ping and the winner was the Ventus. I hit some bombs with it. The OP didn’t feel noticeably lighter as it had in the Ping. (This is one of the things I’ve learned about myself through this experiment- that I really like the lighter shafts? Thus the 50 gram Hzrdus)  I wasn’t getting great results with the OP- high pushes with less carry. I’ll be leaving it at home for my trip and bring the Hzrdus and Ventus to Florida. I’ll give it another test when I get back. Otherwise, it’ll be back to the drawing board with the OP. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by DukeStKing

[Ding-dong]

I was wondering whether this was the couch potatoes speed stick training … I mean that seems so much hard work so why not remove the weight from your playing clubs and skip the training. 

[cksurfdude]

On 3/22/2023 at 4:33 AM, peakation said:

How is the feel swinging the club when you put the counterweight in?

Just my 2¢ it is, obviously, a very individual feel .. like almost everything else in golf I guess!

Me personally.. not too crazy about counterbalanced shafts or clubs (eg. Edel putter).

In fact part of me getting into this O-P Experiment was getting away from the CB shaft that came with my driver...

[peakation]

18 minutes ago, cksurfdude said:

Just my 2¢ it is, obviously, a very individual feel .. like almost everything else in golf I guess!

Me personally.. not too crazy about counterbalanced shafts or clubs (eg. Edel putter).

In fact part of me getting into this O-P Experiment was getting away from the CB shaft that came with my driver...

Thanks for feedback. I tried two years ago to lengthen my Ping driver (with CB shaft I think), and it worked OK at the time. When I pick it up now, it feels so strange. The CB part is also lower as I put in a shaft extender. Removed a lot of weight in the head and SW is ok. But the whole club now feels very off compared to PLB A in SIM2 head.

[cksurfdude]

On 3/23/2023 at 10:23 AM, peakation said:

But the whole club now feels very off

Yeah something that's not discussed as much is balance point which def has a big effect on each person's feel of the club overall; eg. keeping everything else equal a CB shaft or club will prob have a higher balance point vs non-CB.

[Nolan220]

I am still using my set up for this and been still driving the ball really well .. my questions has anyone tried to go back to their old set up after having success with this to see the results ? I had a stiff flex driver shaft and always curious if the results would change much 

[IndyBonzo]

1 hour ago, Nolan220 said:

I am still using my set up for this and been still driving the ball really well .. my questions has anyone tried to go back to their old set up after having success with this to see the results ? I had a stiff flex driver shaft and always curious if the results would change much 

I did this experiment, trying my original shaft length after having success with the shorter shaft, and my results were worse immediately with the longer shaft.

[Ding-dong]

I have swapped back and forth, but you need to reprogram your timing or at least adjust. 
I think staying in a light flexible set up is good, this game is about rhythm and timing. Heavy and stiff shafts compensate in reality for these. For me this migrates through my whole bag and I am seeing improvements in my irons etc ( putting is unaffected ) 

[Nolan220]

3 hours ago, IndyBonzo said:

I did this experiment, trying my original shaft length after having success with the shorter shaft, and my results were worse immediately with the longer shaft.

did you change flex too or was it just length .. I am a short length guy i always choke up on my clubs 

1 hour ago, Ding-dong said:

I have swapped back and forth, but you need to reprogram your timing or at least adjust. 
I think staying in a light flexible set up is good, this game is about rhythm and timing. Heavy and stiff shafts compensate in reality for these. For me this migrates through my whole bag and I am seeing improvements in my irons etc ( putting is unaffected ) 

I agree with this I like the lighter flexible shafts whippy feeling .. 

[IndyBonzo]

@Nolan220   I used the same shaft in the same flex.  The only difference was length.  Hope that helps!

[azstu324]

4 hours ago, Nolan220 said:

I am still using my set up for this and been still driving the ball really well .. my questions has anyone tried to go back to their old set up after having success with this to see the results ? I had a stiff flex driver shaft and always curious if the results would change much 

I've thought about it for funsies. I still have the original Fuji Motore X F1 6X, but only because I can't get anybody interested to buy it. The 1 thing keeping me from going back.. this setup is just so good and successful for me that I just don't have a much desire to go back. I'll get around to it someday