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Shaft Hack - The Otto Phlex Journey


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4 hours ago, azstu324 said:

I have no doubts that the Autoflex lives up to all of its claims and that it's an Excellent option for a lot of people. So far in my testing with the OttoPhlex I'm seeing exactly everything that the Autoflex claims. As I mentioned though, I may not have the opportunity to ever personally compare the Autoflex with the OttoPhlex so that's definitely a hole in my game here. I'm hoping that maybe I can attract the right attention and perhaps get some folks to join in who might have an Autoflex and see how much of the same sandbox these 2 are actually playing in. 

I'm sure that the Autoflex might have it's own unique or specific bend profile, but so does every other shaft company. Like you and quite a few others have mentioned in other forums and reviews, it's not completely for everybody. 

What I will give Autoflex 100% credit for is cleverly marketing a light weight, light flex shaft in a way that would intrigue the general population to take interest. Whatever their "proprietary" bend profile happens to be, it's a lighter flex, lighter weight L, A, or R frequency cleverly disguised with a X or XX. Sheep in wolf's clothing scenario. My theory: There's a lot of ego and pride in the world. Autoflex knew that many could benefit from this type of shaft but in order to get it into more hands, they needed to call it something more than it is.. AND charge an ungodly premium for it in order to get noticed. Just like the videos though, and now that the cat's getting let out of the bag, there are a decent handful of alternatives at a super-fraction of the price that can yield similar.. or dare we say better results. MrShortgame's video kind of proved that. If you took a high, mid, and low cost option of 3 shafts having similar (not exactly the same) bend profiles and conceptual performance properties, took the price tag and aesthetics away and just compare them strictly off of feeling and performance, the cheapest option pretty handedly took home the medal. 

I mean, it's because of Autoflex though that we're here telling our success stories of soft flex shafts and and before Autoflex was around, these are secrets we'd all be keeping bottled up and buried in the backyard. 😜

It's like my kids and broccoli.. I'll cover it with cheese, bacon, and butter just to get them to try it.. I too once needed it to be disguised in order to accept it.. now that I'm older and know better, I just eat it plain with no disguises because i know the benefits. 

Moral of this story: Autoflex = broccoli covered in cheese, bacon, and butter. 

 

You made me think with your “wolf in sheeps clothing” comment on the flex and Autoflex’s marketing. I wonder if they chose hot pink intentionally to attack the ego and “take the Mickey” as the Brits say. 

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31 minutes ago, MattWillGolf said:

You made me think with your “wolf in sheeps clothing” comment on the flex and Autoflex’s marketing. I wonder if they chose hot pink intentionally to attack the ego and “take the Mickey” as the Brits say. 

Oh I don't doubt that there could be some underlying strategery there haha.

It's almost like they're saying "y'all don't care what the shaft looks like or feels like as long as it has XXS written down the side of it"

And they're not completely wrong 

And my reference was supposed to say "sheep in wolf's clothing " hopefully I didn't screw that up..  meaning that it looks all crazy and aggressive on the outside.. but really it's soft and cuddly on the inside

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1 hour ago, azstu324 said:

So my irons are somewhat a progressive SW ranging from about D5 in the higher lofts, and then stepping down a SW about every 2 clubs. My wedges start at about D5, My 22.5° driving 4 iron with a 80g graphite shaft is about a D1. 

My iron and shaft choice, like this topic, and many of my life choices 😜 is a bit unconventional. I play Maltby TS1's with an early 2000's defunct shaft brand called Royal Precision. They're the Rifle Flighted option. Around about the 115g weight. My fairway woods are still around about D3. 

Don't be fooled by the light SW requirements of this test. I spent a good amount of time going back and forth between wedges and driver last night and there's no unnoticeable hitches in the transition. If I didn't know otherwise, I'd guess the driver to be a D4+ just by the overall feeling when you pick it up. 

I think the waggle effect tricks your brain into thinking it's much heavier than it is. 

Hopefully that answered your questions😬

No it did help. I'm a D5 guy across all irons and wedges so to see what's working for you gives me some food for thought and some inspiration. I do want to try something in the lighter realm shaft weight wise at this fitting in a couple weeks and knowing I need the help with launch, perhaps I'm in a perfect world with the lighter flex. The only issue may be the transitional issue as I'm more hitter than swinger. We'll see what happens with the fitting.

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@azstu324 your next project?

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Wood:    :cobra-small: King SZ 3 wood 15.5*

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 4 iron or others....

Irons:     :Sub70: Sub70 659 TC Raw 5-Aw w/ KBS Tour 90 Stiff Black PVD

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:     :taylormade-small:/:titleist-small: (currently testing)

Other:     :Arccos: 

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14 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

 

@azstu324 your next project?

I can barely handle this one .. let alone a whole bag full of them to review 😜

 

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Just now, azstu324 said:

I can barely handle .. let alone a whole bag full of them to review 😜

 

We are getting into the off season... what else do you have planned to do?

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 ⛳🛄 as of Oct 31, 2022 (Past WITB
Driver:   TBD: Follow here: Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: King SZ 3 wood 15.5*

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 4 iron or others....

Irons:     :Sub70: Sub70 659 TC Raw 5-Aw w/ KBS Tour 90 Stiff Black PVD

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:     :taylormade-small:/:titleist-small: (currently testing)

Other:     :Arccos: 

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6 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

We are getting into the off season... what else do you have planned to do?

I'm in Arizona.. there is no off season 

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post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle
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2 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

I'm in Arizona.. there is no off season 

All the more reason to do it to keep all of us in winter entertained with you trials of different shafts and more! 

Love what you have done in the thread and it is definitely one to follow. 

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 ⛳🛄 as of Oct 31, 2022 (Past WITB
Driver:   TBD: Follow here: Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: King SZ 3 wood 15.5*

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 4 iron or others....

Irons:     :Sub70: Sub70 659 TC Raw 5-Aw w/ KBS Tour 90 Stiff Black PVD

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:     :taylormade-small:/:titleist-small: (currently testing)

Other:     :Arccos: 

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4 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

All the more reason to do it to keep all of us in winter entertained with you trials of different shafts and more! 

Love what you have done in the thread and it is definitely one to follow. 

Man you've got me at every angle!🤣

Here's one you just can't beat me on.. if I start another project like this my wife will probably take the kids and leave me.. and leave me with the cat.. 2 things I don't want to happen😜

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2 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

Man you've got me at every angle!🤣

Here's one you just can't beat me on.. if I start another project like this my wife will probably take the kids and leave me.. and leave me with the cat.. 2 things I don't want to happen😜

Can't say you're doing it for a friend? Or trying to single handily change the golf world for the betterment of all golfers?

I'll stop now, but this whole thread has certainly made me curious about all of this and made me debate on a few different options. 

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 ⛳🛄 as of Oct 31, 2022 (Past WITB
Driver:   TBD: Follow here: Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: King SZ 3 wood 15.5*

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 4 iron or others....

Irons:     :Sub70: Sub70 659 TC Raw 5-Aw w/ KBS Tour 90 Stiff Black PVD

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:     :taylormade-small:/:titleist-small: (currently testing)

Other:     :Arccos: 

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16 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

All the more reason to do it to keep all of us in winter entertained with you trials of different shafts and more! 

Love what you have done in the thread and it is definitely one to follow. 

On another note, and it looks like it's a matter of time, I'm really hoping to start having some others chime in who have started down this path. I'd love to get more feedback from others and maybe hear about some other shaft model options.. al the while praying that I don't get crucified for inadvertently leading a bunch of people into the darkness 😬

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:cobra-small: F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S

:cobra-small: RADSpeed Hybrid 24*
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg  TSW Wedge - 56/12
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13 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Can't say you're doing it for a friend? Or trying to single handily change the golf world for the betterment of all golfers?
 

Last one for me too and I'm done.. she would certainly call BS on both accounts.. A. I have like 2 friends.. (let me finish 🤣) who golf and I've done all that I can do for them.. B. If I quit golf tomorrow she'd probably be as happy as a wife could be. So ANYTHING for the betterment of all golfers, therefore ensuring my continued interest in the game.. is of no interest to her🤣

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Just saw this for the AutoFlex fans not crazy about the hot pink.

D9181F86-BE53-4C5D-802B-5C0636C91305.jpeg.78a2d1dd98497b87263b949741210073.jpeg

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Ping G410 Crossover 23° w/Mitsubishi Tensei Blue

PXG 0211 5 - GW w/True Temper Elevate 95

Callaway MD3 54°/12° S Grind w/True Temper Dynamic Gold

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4 hours ago, azstu324 said:

On another note, and it looks like it's a matter of time, I'm really hoping to start having some others chime in who have started down this path. I'd love to get more feedback from others and maybe hear about some other shaft model options.. al the while praying that I don't get crucified for inadvertently leading a bunch of people into the darkness 😬

Still had good results with the Grafalloy Supercharged Pro Launch during my round today.  Came home to find a Diamana Red Board in L flex arrived while I was on the course.  Got an adapter and an extension added and the epoxy should be set by tomorrow.  Hopefully  time allows a quick trip to the range to see what happens.

So far so good.

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PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

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23 minutes ago, Bobbers said:

Still had good results with the Grafalloy Supercharged Pro Launch during my round today.  Came home to find a Diamana Red Board in L flex arrived while I was on the course.  Got an adapter and an extension added and the epoxy should be set by tomorrow.  Hopefully  time allows a quick trip to the range to see what happens.

So far so good.

Yeah man please let the group know your thoughts on how those 2 compare. What is the weight of the Diamana? 

I'm really itching to try 1 more shaft and that's the UST V2 HL. I honestly don't see how anything can out perform the GPLB but I think it's worth adding it to the mix just to see if it could be another option. The V2 is such a solid and classic shaft just like the GPLB

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:cobra-small: F8 6 wood 20* / Fujikura MotoreX F3 6S

:cobra-small: RADSpeed Hybrid 24*
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TS1 4-GW / FCM Precision 6.5 Rifle
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg  TSW Wedge - 56/12
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8 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

Yeah man please let the group know your thoughts on how those 2 compare. What is the weight of the Diamana? 

I'm really itching to try 1 more shaft and that's the UST V2 HL. I honestly don't see how anything can out perform the GPLB but I think it's worth adding it to the mix just to see if it could be another option. The V2 is such a solid and classic shaft just like the GPLB

Nominal weight of the Diamana is 50 grams.  I'll weigh it in the morning once the epoxy has cured and let you know.

I also have a Mitsubishi Rayon Bassara W Series 40 Titleist SureFit Tour Driver Ladies Shaft on the way, that will be the lightest of the bunch.

Edited by Bobbers
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PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

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Edel EAS 4 with BGT Stability Tour Shaft

 

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Try the UST55 gold at 49g in A, mid/heigh  launching with 4.5T@$44 TheGolfworks, 54 now I started playing 5 years ago and got obsessed with getting better and love tinkering. Build a couple of sets at home in my sons bedroom during the pandemic and shooting around 80 consistently now with around a 100 Swing speed. I just went from R 55 that I got fitted for 2 years ago to a S 67 handcrafted blue evenflow that I picked up at pgast for $49. Love this shaft and more forgiving but not as long. I am ordering one of 2 shafts after this forum to try out , UST55 or the GPL 45. Still doing my research? Leaning towards the UST55, thinking of tipping 1” and plying it at 45 with a D1 swing weight. It’s light, with a 4.5 torque, any thoughts?  The V2 is 51g 4.5T but heigh launching that I don’t need. The V2HL is The Average Golfers (YouTube) fitted shave @$66 , not bad if you can play any shaft in the world!

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Two steps forwards one step back!

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19 hours ago, cnosil said:


okay, let me flip this back around to you,  how should we be communicating about this experiment?  What do we as regular non industry people have available that would enable us to communicate about what is being done and tried? 

As forum members and so called smarter than the average golfer so many still get hung up on concepts, notions and old thought processes that have been debunked, or shown to be incorrect in the theory. They are supposedly more up to speed on technology and more informed yet the EI profile of shafts are ignored when talking about shafts and everyone focused on a letter that is only significant to the manufacturer who put it on a shaft. 

It didn’t help that there are people who work in the industry that in their videos, blogs or social media posts don’t talk about this. This is why imo txg is far and above when it comes to content. Unfortunately even they fall into misleading or misstating information on their videos. This doesn’t help the consumer.

There is information out there if people want it. Golfshaftreviews has plenty of data to compare shaft profiles. This can be used to figure out how to reduce stiffness or add it compared a letter code on a shaft.

People can communicate however they want I’m just pointing out that comparing certain aspects of shafts isn’t the best way to do it because there is no standard and that the EI profile is more important than the flex letter.

PX is probably one of the best examples to use because the hzrdus line is has a different design than the evenflow line and despite both having shafts in the same weight class and flex marking they are going to feel different and play different. PX said when they designed the original hzrdus line feel wasn’t even in the equation. It was all about performance. They changed that approach with even flow and kept the performance aspect while making sure how the shaft would feel be considered.

Experiments are fun and i get it, there was this short term craze over autoflex and many were running out to buy ii, try it and thought it was going to be this magic shaft. They saw pros putting it in the bag, heard some success stories and there were those who wanted it but didn’t want to pay the price tag it came with. So some guy comes up with an experiment to mimic the shaft based on what he thinks is the design, tests it out and it performs similar. Tells people they can get a cheaper shaft that performs as good as a high end shaft. There’s enough fitting stories on forums that say the samething. The cost of a shaft, the materials used don’t determine how good or bad a shaft is. How it feels and how it works or doesn’t work with one’s swing determines if it’s a good shaft or not. Tom Wishon has at least one article on wrx about this which I’ve posted several times and creates several threads on the myths he breakdown in that article.

Many on the internet who didn’t go thru a fitting, get the swing weight and length right in their experiments ditched the shaft. Many if not all the pros who saw some early honeymoon success dropped it pretty quickly. So is it really that great of a shaft? Is it better than anything else on the market?  For both questions the answer is probably yes for sum. Just like the ventus shaft was a hot item. It’s a good shaft for some and not so good for others. It’s also a shaft that has the same profile of other shafts on the market. 
 

Anyways, I’m glad the op found something that works and is having fun with the experiment. But I’m out on this thread 

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19 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

As forum members and so called smarter than the average golfer so many still get hung up on concepts, notions and old thought processes that have been debunked, or shown to be incorrect in the theory. They are supposedly more up to speed on technology and more informed yet the EI profile of shafts are ignored when talking about shafts and everyone focused on a letter that is only significant to the manufacturer who put it on a shaft. 

It didn’t help that there are people who work in the industry that in their videos, blogs or social media posts don’t talk about this. This is why imo txg is far and above when it comes to content. Unfortunately even they fall into misleading or misstating information on their videos. This doesn’t help the consumer.

There is information out there if people want it. Golfshaftreviews has plenty of data to compare shaft profiles. This can be used to figure out how to reduce stiffness or add it compared a letter code on a shaft.

People can communicate however they want I’m just pointing out that comparing certain aspects of shafts isn’t the best way to do it because there is no standard and that the EI profile is more important than the flex letter.

PX is probably one of the best examples to use because the hzrdus line is has a different design than the evenflow line and despite both having shafts in the same weight class and flex marking they are going to feel different and play different. PX said when they designed the original hzrdus line feel wasn’t even in the equation. It was all about performance. They changed that approach with even flow and kept the performance aspect while making sure how the shaft would feel be considered.

Experiments are fun and i get it, there was this short term craze over autoflex and many were running out to buy ii, try it and thought it was going to be this magic shaft. They saw pros putting it in the bag, heard some success stories and there were those who wanted it but didn’t want to pay the price tag it came with. So some guy comes up with an experiment to mimic the shaft based on what he thinks is the design, tests it out and it performs similar. Tells people they can get a cheaper shaft that performs as good as a high end shaft. There’s enough fitting stories on forums that say the samething. The cost of a shaft, the materials used don’t determine how good or bad a shaft is. How it feels and how it works or doesn’t work with one’s swing determines if it’s a good shaft or not. Tom Wishon has at least one article on wrx about this which I’ve posted several times and creates several threads on the myths he breakdown in that article.

Many on the internet who didn’t go thru a fitting, get the swing weight and length right in their experiments ditched the shaft. Many if not all the pros who saw some early honeymoon success dropped it pretty quickly. So is it really that great of a shaft? Is it better than anything else on the market?  For both questions the answer is probably yes for sum. Just like the ventus shaft was a hot item. It’s a good shaft for some and not so good for others. It’s also a shaft that has the same profile of other shafts on the market. 
 

Anyways, I’m glad the op found something that works and is having fun with the experiment. But I’m out on this thread 

Again I don’t think anyone disagrees with anything you are saying here.   The reference to the golfshaftreviews is great, but I’m not willing to pay the $12 a year to get information I won’t use on a regular basis so I can’t get the profiles..  I personally think the value of these experiments is that it helps to show that people should not lock in on what is printed on the shaft and that you need to try/get fit for shafts to find what combination works for the player.  If these videos and experiments went to the depths of showing the Ei profile they would probably lose 99% of their viewers. But by using the information printed on the shaft you can show that these values are basically meaningless, that common thought is inaccurate, and that cost doesn’t indicate performance.  You can point people to these videos and experiments and show examples that prove what is printed on the shaft doesn’t indicate anything and you should look toward actual performance.  

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10 hours ago, TheFonzzz said:

Try the UST55 gold at 49g in A, mid/heigh  launching with 4.5T@$44 TheGolfworks, 54 now I started playing 5 years ago and got obsessed with getting better and love tinkering. Build a couple of sets at home in my sons bedroom during the pandemic and shooting around 80 consistently now with around a 100 Swing speed. I just went from R 55 that I got fitted for 2 years ago to a S 67 handcrafted blue evenflow that I picked up at pgast for $49. Love this shaft and more forgiving but not as long. I am ordering one of 2 shafts after this forum to try out , UST55 or the GPL 45. Still doing my research? Leaning towards the UST55, thinking of tipping 1” and plying it at 45 with a D1 swing weight. It’s light, with a 4.5 torque, any thoughts?  The V2 is 51g 4.5T but heigh launching that I don’t need. The V2HL is The Average Golfers (YouTube) fitted shave @$66 , not bad if you can play any shaft in the world!

I think the UST55 looks like a great profile to try out and I say give it a shot. 

Some food for thought, I used to steer clear of anything high launching before this project. Could have maybe been part of "feeding the macho", could have been misinformation, or maybe the truth outside of this experiment..? The GPLB is a higher launching shaft. As technical as I'd like to say my approach was for picking it over another mid launch shaft that i had in mind.. well I picked it based on liking the aesthetic better. (I know, shake your heads I deserve it 😜) but like Bob Ross would put it.. this was definitely a happy accident. I had already cranked the loft down to 7.5° for the Riptide and this project. I was loving the launch and overall performance of the riptide already and it was supposed to be a mid launch mid spin. Well the GPLB seems to launch a tad lower and my spin about 1-200 rpms less. But ball and swing speed is higher with the Garafalloy. 

I'm not in any way touting that the GPLB is the best option.. but maybe don't completely shut out higher launching options. Keep in mind that we're all kind of going down an unconventional path here so everything that we've played or have been fit for may need some kind of adjustment to work with this idea.

On another note, there's a 52g Garafalloy colab project shaft with Golfworks called GWX that's a mid/high and seems to meet the profile. I might be placing an order to Golfworks soon... 

I'm loving seeing all of the interest and possibilities out there! Can't wait to start hearing about the results!

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