2 wood instead of driver?

[CLaw]

I keep struggling with my driver slicing excessively. I still am trying different heights, different positioning in my stance, making sure to TURN through the swing with my hips, but I cannot hit my driver (old titelist) straight. I had my first hit of the day slice right into the adjacent fairway, and my playing partner said to hit a breakfast ball and it would be better. It sliced as well and both were within 5 yards of each other. Very consistent, just bad. My woods used to slice a little as well, although the PXG 5 wood I just got has been drilling them straight as can be, and my irons are pretty straight most of the time. 
 

is it time to give up on a driver?  Should I try running a 2 and 5 wood and see if that’s my ticket?  I’m also eying the PXG driver sale and thinking maybe they could fit me over the phone as well as the 5 wood, but I’d hate to do that and then just be slicing with a newer driver…. 
 

Open to any suggestions or help!

[cnosil]

1 minute ago, CLaw said:

is it time to give up on a driver?  Should I try running a 2 and 5 wood and see if that’s my ticket?  I’m also eying the PXG driver sale and thinking maybe they could fit me over the phone as well as the 5 wood, but I’d hate to do that and then just be slicing with a newer driver…. 
 

Open to any suggestions or help!

My Opinions:

Time to give up on driver:  Yes and no.  Maybe time to give up on driver during rounds as it seems to be costing you stroke.   Time to get your swing fixed so you can hit your driver better.   

For your rounds, find a club that keeps your ball in play and doesn't result in frequent penalty shots.   

The PXG is a good driver but it probably won't dramatically fix the type of slice you are describing.   I believe you need lessons.  

 

[CLaw]

12 minutes ago, cnosil said:

My Opinions:

Time to give up on driver:  Yes and no.  Maybe time to give up on driver during rounds as it seems to be costing you stroke.   Time to get your swing fixed so you can hit your driver better.   

For your rounds, find a club that keeps your ball in play and doesn't result in frequent penalty shots.   

The PXG is a good driver but it probably won't dramatically fix the type of slice you are describing.   I believe you need lessons.  

 

Thanks Cnosil! I’ve had a few lessons and my irons show it, and my new 5 wood shows it, but the driver is just not sticking. We’ll get one good hit out of a dozen and I cannot tell what was different. 
 

For saving strokes during the round, any thoughts on a 2 wood or stick with the 180 yard 5 wood for now?

 

Thanks!

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, CLaw said:

Thanks Cnosil! I’ve had a few lessons and my irons show it, and my new 5 wood shows it, but the driver is just not sticking. We’ll get one good hit out of a dozen and I cannot tell what was different. 
 

For saving strokes during the round, any thoughts on a 2 wood or stick with the 180 yard 5 wood for now?

 

Thanks!

How well do you hit a 2 wood or do you have to buy one and don't know?  Personally, I would say 5 wood and keep practicing the driver.  

[GolfSpy_APH]

As @cnosil said a new driver likely won't be the be all cure. Glad to hear you are taking lessons as that will be the biggest help. 

Drivers like the Ping SFT may be the ones to check out as a priority as they are marketed and built more for the issue you are having. They won't be an instant cure, but should aid in the transition.

As well it may be good to play your woods but move up a tee? This could help keep you around the same lengths as when you hit driver, but also gain some confidence and not be stuck using long irons all the time.

[CLaw]

Thank you both!  I don’t have a 2 wood or any other drivers to try. I struggle with stepping up a tee box with the peanut gallery I can sometimes make it out with, but that’s a lot cheaper than buying clubs just to try!

[GolfSpy_APH]

26 minutes ago, CLaw said:

Thank you both!  I don’t have a 2 wood or any other drivers to try. I struggle with stepping up a tee box with the peanut gallery I can sometimes make it out with, but that’s a lot cheaper than buying clubs just to try!

That is what we are here for! We all have questions and struggles and thankfully we have a stellar community here that will offer advice as best they can. 

Let us know how the journey goes and what route you end up taking whether it be new driver or more lessons or both. I did note that you only mentioned older Titleist driver and not what model so maybe a newer one would be more forgiving and just help with some of that confidence. 

Although not as final as a result as a fitting and such we did have a interesting article on how many buy more used now. Possibly during a lesson your pro can make a suggestion for shaft weight/type and then there could be something on the used market that could help. Say Ping G400 SFT, Cobra F Max (has more offset to help slicers) Cleveland, Rogue draw and several others that are some years old, but still likely good for you as you go through the swing improvements. 

[Bobbers]

8 hours ago, CLaw said:

Thank you both!  I don’t have a 2 wood or any other drivers to try. I struggle with stepping up a tee box with the peanut gallery I can sometimes make it out with, but that’s a lot cheaper than buying clubs just to try!

A lot of courses have demo clubs which you can try out, usually for a round by just leaving your driver's license as collateral.

When you say "2 wood" I have to ask what you mean?  Yes, I'm old enough to remember persimmon headed clubs and I had a set of four woods once upon a long, long time ago; a 1/2/3/4 wood.  I ask because a 2 wood used to be in the 12-14 degree loft range.  A lot of today's adjustable drivers are available in a 12 degree head configuration which can be adjusted from 10.5-13.5 degrees (think PXG, Ping) with some offering a +/- 2 degree adjustability. 

What, if I can ask, is the shaft flex in your driver vs. 5 wood vs. irons? 

And finally, what's the playing length of your driver and your 5 wood?

As to your short term idea of using the 5 wood off the tee?  Better to hit a ball you can find after you hit it then a "bomb" that disappears never to be found in my opinion.  Worse yet would be to make your current driver swing your "standard" and start aiming further and further left with the hope that the mega slice will somehow find the fairway if there's enough room down the left side to accommodate the slice.

[TheCanadianBogeyman]

I wouldn't give up on the driver entirely, but I wouldn't look at a new club as a permanent fix.  Last year, I had a monster slice, and I was playing a B21 with full draw setting.  I could still slice that thing two fairways over.  I think that there is no true anti-slice club.  The draw models really excel if some has a bit of a fade that they are trying to straighten out, but they aren't a full fix for a really out to in path or open clubface.  If I were you, I would stick with the lessons, and play the 5W more until you straighten out the driver.  Or alternatively, you could slow your driver swing down a little (for me, my path was way worse when I would swing hard at the ball, than if I slowed down and just tried to hit an easy one).  It may take a while, but the lessons will eventually pay off.  Big swing changes take time.

[Bang60]

I tried a 14deg driver because I miss left, improved 50% dispersion but lost a lot of distance so decided to work on swing. Reduce rear shoulder turn and try to keep arms level like Rahm, also helps reduce over the top swings and hit my best drive of 250metres baby draw...

[chisag]

On 10/8/2022 at 7:28 AM, CLaw said:

is it time to give up on a driver?  Should I try running a 2 and 5 wood and see if that’s my ticket?  I’m also eying the PXG driver sale and thinking maybe they could fit me over the phone as well as the 5 wood, but I’d hate to do that and then just be slicing with a newer driver…. 

 

... There are a myriad of reasons golfers slice off the tee. Impossible to diagnose from a written post. That said if you are hitting your 5 wood well off the tee without slicing, a common culprit is over swinging. Most golfers feel they need to swing their driver as fast as possible instead of concentrating on a normal swing with good contact. As others have mentioned, lessons are always a good idea but you may want to try slowing your driver swing just a little and see if your sequencing is more like your 5 wood. 

[AndySP]

As others have said, adding loft does help to buffer the effect of side spin, and is easier to hit straight because of the D-plane effects. Driver is tough because your miss is exaggerated compared to your other clubs. The same outside-in path you put on a 9i just isn’t going to slice as much. 
 

Draw biased helps do well to offset slice spin with gear effect and other tech, but it won’t fix really extreme face to path issues. I would settle down and spend quality time at the range figuring out how to neutralize your slice, it will make you happier in the long run too. Hitting driver is fun. 

[funkyjudge]

On 10/8/2022 at 10:28 AM, CLaw said:

I keep struggling with my driver slicing excessively. I still am trying different heights, different positioning in my stance, making sure to TURN through the swing with my hips, but I cannot hit my driver (old titelist) straight. I had my first hit of the day slice right into the adjacent fairway, and my playing partner said to hit a breakfast ball and it would be better. It sliced as well and both were within 5 yards of each other. Very consistent, just bad. My woods used to slice a little as well, although the PXG 5 wood I just got has been drilling them straight as can be, and my irons are pretty straight most of the time. 
 

is it time to give up on a driver?  Should I try running a 2 and 5 wood and see if that’s my ticket?  I’m also eying the PXG driver sale and thinking maybe they could fit me over the phone as well as the 5 wood, but I’d hate to do that and then just be slicing with a newer driver…. 
 

Open to any suggestions or help!

I used to use a 14 degree TM SLDR Mini @ 44” playing length when my driver was misbehaving (truth be told, it was me and my driver swing that were misbehaving). This worked pretty well for me for a couple of seasons, and I had no need to carry a 3 or 4 wood at the time (I was hitting the ball considerably longer back then, and the SLDR Mini was giving me 245-260 yards consistently, sometimes running out to 270 or more (for those unfamiliar with this model, the SLDR Mini was not adjustable at all). My next club in the bag was an older TE Exotics  CB Pro 5-wood, and I left the driver at home.

Because I went through a season of good to very bad results with any driver that I was playing this past 16 months, I purchased a TM 300Ti Mini Driver about 2 months ago when retailers were dropping the price on these clubs.  I reduced the club’s length slightly to 43.5” by replacing the stock shaft with a GD Tour AD XC S/R (stiff regular) shaft, keeping the swingweight at D3. I have used this club for a few rounds before I had cancer surgery on my right leg 3 weeks ago that has kept me from playing golf since mid-September. With this 13.5* mini driver (a relatively large-headed “2-wood”, if you prefer), I get about 225 yards of carry and 240 yards total on decent contact from off the tee, and about 5 yards less from clean lies in the fairway. I personally find this club as easy to hit as any 15.75* to 17* 4-wood that I own, even from off the deck. It only gives me 5 to 10 more yards than a well-struck 4-wood, and when I game the 300 Mini, I leave out the 4-wood in favor of a 18* - 19* 5-wood or 20* 7-wood.

If the above type of mini drivers describe what you are calling a “2-wood”, I think that you might want to give one a try.

Another option is a shallower-faced “thriver” type of club. I built myself one of these more than 10 years ago (13* loft, 43” long). It has a smaller and shallower face than my 300Ti mini driver, also slightly shallower but about the same overall volume as the SLDR Mini….just more “squashed” looking. I only stopped playing that club because it was shafted with a heavy and monstrously stiff shaft. Before I retired that club, I found it amazingly easy to hit off the fairway, but I didn’t like it from the tee nearly as well as I did - and do - find the last few generations of mini drivers to be.

I hope that this gives you some further food for thought.

Edited October 9, 2022 by funkyjudge

[CLaw]

On 10/8/2022 at 7:18 PM, Bobbers said:

A lot of courses have demo clubs which you can try out, usually for a round by just leaving your driver's license as collateral.

When you say "2 wood" I have to ask what you mean?  Yes, I'm old enough to remember persimmon headed clubs and I had a set of four woods once upon a long, long time ago; a 1/2/3/4 wood.  I ask because a 2 wood used to be in the 12-14 degree loft range.  A lot of today's adjustable drivers are available in a 12 degree head configuration which can be adjusted from 10.5-13.5 degrees (think PXG, Ping) with some offering a +/- 2 degree adjustability. 

What, if I can ask, is the shaft flex in your driver vs. 5 wood vs. irons? 

And finally, what's the playing length of your driver and your 5 wood?

As to your short term idea of using the 5 wood off the tee?  Better to hit a ball you can find after you hit it then a "bomb" that disappears never to be found in my opinion.  Worse yet would be to make your current driver swing your "standard" and start aiming further and further left with the hope that the mega slice will somehow find the fairway if there's enough room down the left side to accommodate the slice.

Hey @Bobbers, 

I was looking at one of the PXG fairway woods that had a 2 wood around 14 degrees, but you’re right that a lot of the new drivers seem to adjust to 12 degrees. 
 

As for flex, my Tour Edge Bazookas are Regular flex steel (irons at this point), the 5 wood is Diamana S+ 60g in regular flex, but I’m told that would be considered stiff by some other shaft manufacturers so I’d say it’s right on the edge. The titelist driver is regular flex as well, but I’d be looking more towards stiff for any new driver based on comments from the guy I’d been getting lessons from. 
 

The lengths are all “standard” but im not sure what that is. I am 5’9” and again the guy I’d been getting lessons from says that is a good starting point without getting a good fitting somewhere (not a lot of options in northwest Montana). 
 

I did get out for 9 holes yesterday and had some of my best drives yet. More of a fade than a terrible slice. I was deliberately tilting my upper body away from the ball on the driver only. 

[Bobbers]

1 hour ago, CLaw said:

Hey @Bobbers, 

I was looking at one of the PXG fairway woods that had a 2 wood around 14 degrees, but you’re right that a lot of the new drivers seem to adjust to 12 degrees. 
 

As for flex, my Tour Edge Bazookas are Regular flex steel (irons at this point), the 5 wood is Diamana S+ 60g in regular flex, but I’m told that would be considered stiff by some other shaft manufacturers so I’d say it’s right on the edge. The titelist driver is regular flex as well, but I’d be looking more towards stiff for any new driver based on comments from the guy I’d been getting lessons from. 
 

The lengths are all “standard” but im not sure what that is. I am 5’9” and again the guy I’d been getting lessons from says that is a good starting point without getting a good fitting somewhere (not a lot of options in northwest Montana). 
 

I did get out for 9 holes yesterday and had some of my best drives yet. More of a fade than a terrible slice. I was deliberately tilting my upper body away from the ball on the driver only. 

I believe that PXG is currently running a "deal" on their 0211 driver for like $120 or so.  If you ordered it in 10.5 degrees you'd have a range of 9/9.5/10.5/11.5/12 available all in one head.  It gets great reviews in terms of forgiveness, distance, etc. and at that price, including a nice shaft, it's tough to beat.

Not trying to confuse the issue but there are a lot of teachers who suggest you play "the lightest flex you can control" which would for you probably be a regular flex.   The nice thing is you can simply buy a different shaft with adapter and swap it out if you want to try something different.  I'm your height as well, helps to have a mental picture of who's on the other end of the conversation.

[RI_Redneck]

If you slice your driver more than your other clubs, then you need to compare your driver setup (stance, ball position, swing, etc) to your FW setup. Odds are they will be very different. They should not be!

The differences between driver setup and 3w setup should be as follows:

Stance - Feet should be no further apart with driver than with 3w. Weight distribution should be the same, as well as pelvic tilt rearward.

Ball position - NO MORE than 1" more forward in your stance than your 3w from a tee (1.5" 3w from deck).

Tee Height - This can vary depending on the face depth of your driver, but if you sole your driver, the center of the ball should be even with the top of the face (not the crown).

Many have wrecked their driver performance by trying to hit up on the ball TOO MUCH. Plus 3°-4° should be the max anyone tries to get. If you're at plus 3°-4° and your launch is too low, you need more loft. Your swing should literally be the same swing you make with the 3w. Your ball placement will insure the AoA is slightly up since the ball is slightly more forward compared to your 3w. I see many who place the ball A LOT more forward in their stance and not only do they have to make an exaggerated move to just hit the ball, their path is turning so hard left at that point that slice spin is almost guaranteed! Once you check the things listed above and have them correct. Hit some balls swinging just like you were hitting 3w shots. Odds are your shots will not be slicing nearly as much. But, if they are still slicing more than your 3w, check the weighting of your driver. Many drivers are a good bit lighter than FWs. A much lighter club will typically come into the ball more open because the weight is not sufficient to square the club with the same sequencing used to hit the heavier clubs.And it's not just swingweight, it's total weight too. The clubs should feel the same when swung. If they don't, the driver needs to be re-weighted.

 

BT

[CLaw]

4 hours ago, RI_Redneck said:

If you slice your driver more than your other clubs, then you need to compare your driver setup (stance, ball position, swing, etc) to your FW setup. Odds are they will be very different. They should not be!

The differences between driver setup and 3w setup should be as follows:

Stance - Feet should be no further apart with driver than with 3w. Weight distribution should be the same, as well as pelvic tilt rearward.

Ball position - NO MORE than 1" more forward in your stance than your 3w from a tee (1.5" 3w from deck).

Tee Height - This can vary depending on the face depth of your driver, but if you sole your driver, the center of the ball should be even with the top of the face (not the crown).

Many have wrecked their driver performance by trying to hit up on the ball TOO MUCH. Plus 3°-4° should be the max anyone tries to get. If you're at plus 3°-4° and your launch is too low, you need more loft. Your swing should literally be the same swing you make with the 3w. Your ball placement will insure the AoA is slightly up since the ball is slightly more forward compared to your 3w. I see many who place the ball A LOT more forward in their stance and not only do they have to make an exaggerated move to just hit the ball, their path is turning so hard left at that point that slice spin is almost guaranteed! Once you check the things listed above and have them correct. Hit some balls swinging just like you were hitting 3w shots. Odds are your shots will not be slicing nearly as much. But, if they are still slicing more than your 3w, check the weighting of your driver. Many drivers are a good bit lighter than FWs. A much lighter club will typically come into the ball more open because the weight is not sufficient to square the club with the same sequencing used to hit the heavier clubs.And it's not just swingweight, it's total weight too. The clubs should feel the same when swung. If they don't, the driver needs to be re-weighted.

 

BT

Thanks @RI_Redneck, I’ll have to get a few swings in the garage. I DEFINITELY have moved the ball much farther forward than you describe and take a noticeably wider stance than my 5W. I don’t use my 3W (haven’t upgraded it and the first one had the head fly off) but I hit my 5W great nearly like an iron. I’ll start bringing my tee in and see if I can find a sweet spot. 

[ChuckZ]

On 10/8/2022 at 10:28 AM, CLaw said:

I keep struggling with my driver slicing excessively. I still am trying different heights, different positioning in my stance, making sure to TURN through the swing with my hips, but I cannot hit my driver (old titelist) straight. I had my first hit of the day slice right into the adjacent fairway, and my playing partner said to hit a breakfast ball and it would be better. It sliced as well and both were within 5 yards of each other. Very consistent, just bad. My woods used to slice a little as well, although the PXG 5 wood I just got has been drilling them straight as can be, and my irons are pretty straight most of the time. 
 

is it time to give up on a driver?  Should I try running a 2 and 5 wood and see if that’s my ticket?  I’m also eying the PXG driver sale and thinking maybe they could fit me over the phone as well as the 5 wood, but I’d hate to do that and then just be slicing with a newer driver…. 
 

Open to any suggestions or help!

My suggestion is like a broken record, always the same.  Please, go see a PGA pro and see if there is a problem with your swing or it is indeed your equipment.  If it is your swing he can help you.  If it is your equipment, and he is a certified fitter, he can put you in the correct set up or refer to a certified fitter.  Sometimes we have a tendency, as amateurs, to continue to try to buy fixes off the shelve and end up speeding more then by going and getting professional help.  Just sayin'. 

[ChuckZ]

1 minute ago, ChuckZ said:

My suggestion is like a broken record, always the same.  Please, go see a PGA pro and see if there is a problem with your swing or it is indeed your equipment.  If it is your swing he can help you.  If it is your equipment, and he is a certified fitter, he can put you in the correct set up or refer to a certified fitter.  Sometimes we have a tendency, as amateurs, to continue to try to buy fixes off the shelve and end up speeding more then by going and getting professional help.  Just sayin'. 

Meant to add that the two wood is 12* and would elevate the ball more, but would not guarantee you eliminating the slice.  The 910 driver came out in the fall 2009 and Titleist has improved every two years since then.  Again, recommend going to see a PGA pro to work on your slice.  Then go to a Titleist certified fitter.  I play the TSID3 (10.75), am 76, and hit my drives around 220-240 down the middle.  Was fitted and work with my pro.   With the new Prov1 (388 Proto), which I am testing, I have picked up another 5+ yards.  Good luck pal. 

[CLaw]

Thanks Chuck, I’ll have to see where the closest fitter is and then maybe get there next spring. Snows already on the ground and we don’t have a fitter in the area. 

[Everardo]

On 10/8/2022 at 7:28 AM, CLaw said:

I keep struggling with my driver slicing excessively. I still am trying different heights, different positioning in my stance, making sure to TURN through the swing with my hips, but I cannot hit my driver (old titelist) straight. I had my first hit of the day slice right into the adjacent fairway, and my playing partner said to hit a breakfast ball and it would be better. It sliced as well and both were within 5 yards of each other. Very consistent, just bad. My woods used to slice a little as well, although the PXG 5 wood I just got has been drilling them straight as can be, and my irons are pretty straight most of the time. 
 

is it time to give up on a driver?  Should I try running a 2 and 5 wood and see if that’s my ticket?  I’m also eying the PXG driver sale and thinking maybe they could fit me over the phone as well as the 5 wood, but I’d hate to do that and then just be slicing with a newer driver…. 
 

Open to any suggestions or help!

1. Lessons
2. Aiming
3. Fitting

In that order are things that has helped me and others.

Lessons: Cause why not just fix the root cause of it all. Also one or a handful of lessons isn't going to fix it without proper practice and follow-up to properly cement that into your body and mind.

Aiming: So many people refuse to aim more left and just play the slice. If you slice say 80-90% of the time then don't worry about that 1-2 times you actually go a little left. This is documented with Decade Golf and others, just friggin change your aim. One of my buddies never, and I mean never hits left with his driver yet refuses to aim to the left side of the fairway or left rough. Slices the damn ball every-single-f'ing-time into right rough or OB and says "why can't I just keep it in play" - we just stopped reminding him to aim left and just figure you can't fix stupid. We love the guy though

Fitting: If lessons or aiming doesn't solve it all. then invest in a proper clubfitting and see what equipment changes you can make. The reason you do this last is most people will adapt to whatever club you had them. If you give them a driver with low loft and extra stiff shaft, they will eventually figure a way to get it to launch right, but mess up their swing for all their other clubs too.

--

That being said, I played a mini-driver (2 wood) while I was taking lessons and practicing out my driver issues. Now that's it's mostly worked out, I still carry the mini-driver for some courses for a backup off the tee. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Everardo

[Oudefart]

I too suffered from this a while back (except for the slice part). Just couldn't hit a driver. I got on Trackman and figured out what the swing issues are and then sought to address that. However at this point in age, my swing is basically what it is and I have to work/live with it.

That said, I found the "Mini" driver to be the solution. A bit smaller head and played at 44", it's great for me. I first started a while back with the Callaway 1.5 Mini, then went to Taylormade Original One, 'cuz it was 20yds longer, now I play the Taylormade 300.

I had the luxury of playing roughly 70+ rounds alone which allowed me the opportunity to test all this in real time under real conditions. I do still own a driver, but it's still not worth it. When I hit it "perfect' it about 8-12yds longer than the Taylormade 300. However, the number of fairways hit isn't even close. Yeah, I'd be one less iron closer, but I hit mine far enough that I don't see the benefit of not having a better lie.

I think that at this point, enough people out there have tried the Mini's and found they're NOT for them. You should be able to find one in good shape used at a big box on online. They come in 11.5° & 13.5°. Not knowing anything, I'd go for the lower one as it's more toward the 2W you're referring to.

I recently watched a TXG video about what 5 things amateurs don't do vs the pros. The one that hit home for me was: have a go to shot. I'd rather not stand on the tee with a driver and the mental hopscotch that goes with that than have the 300 Mini in my hand that I have total confidence in.

Well, just another opinion.  Or, perhaps shorten your current driver to 44.5".

[Everardo]

7 minutes ago, Oudefart said:

I recently watched a TXG video about what 5 things amateurs don't do vs the pros. The one that hit home for me was: have a go to shot. I'd rather not stand on the tee with a driver and the mental hopscotch that goes with that than have the 300 Mini in my hand that I have total confidence in.

Well, just another opinion.  Or, perhaps shorten your current driver to 44.5".

That is a good video! That's another reason why I still keep my mini-driver in the bag for many rounds, it is more reliable.

There's a couple good videos about driver length (TXG in particular) everyone thing going to a shorter driver will cost them distance but in reality if they have a better strike pattern with a shorter club, then the shorter club will perform better. Also in the Golf Digest Tiger series, he says something to the effect of, if you can't consistently find the center of the face then you have no business swinging harder or with a longer club.