Shaft and Flex Fitting at Club Champion

[GolfSpy TCB]

Good discussion on how different shafts and shaft flexes are matched to different types of golf swings.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

God video. Test wise it’s great because they are using the same weight in the same shaft like so flex comparison is true compared to using either different shafts or same shaft but different weights.

Things that stood out and confirm what’s been said over and over. At the beginning was there is no flex standard.

During discussion of shaft 1 that speed isn’t the determination for flex, but the timing of how the profile works with the swing

He was unable to tell the difference between flexes based on feel of the swing and even wasn’t sure what was what during the whole test.

Carry distance and launch numbers were relatively the same across all 3 shafts. 
 

He notified a bigger difference in feel between the stiff and x flex than x vs r and r vs s.

Because of the feel of shaft 2 he would have to manipulate the swing to get his desired results and would throw off the feel thru the bag.

[AndySP]

It would be really enlightening to participate in this test. I’m so jealous of those that get to do it.

I’ve always wanted to try something softer for feel, but I’ve never gotten the chance to make a direct comparison. 
 

I often wonder how much our swings adjust to what we have in the sense that even if I had a “bad” fit initially, I’ve now compensated to make it work for me after a year of practice/playing. 

[GolfSpy TCB]

33 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

God video. Test wise it’s great because they are using the same weight in the same shaft like so flex comparison is true compared to using either different shafts or same shaft but different weights.

Things that stood out and confirm what’s been said over and over. At the beginning was there is no flex standard.

During discussion of shaft 1 that speed isn’t the determination for flex, but the timing of how the profile works with the swing

He was unable to tell the difference between flexes based on feel of the swing and even wasn’t sure what was what during the whole test.

Carry distance and launch numbers were relatively the same across all 3 shafts. 
 

He notified a bigger difference in feel between the stiff and x flex than x vs r and r vs s.

Because of the feel of shaft 2 he would have to manipulate the swing to get his desired results and would throw off the feel thru the bag.

I found the same take-aways RB.  I thought it was very telling when the tester said the 2nd shaft felt out of sync compared to the first.  Definitely a result of trying to control a flex that is possibly too soft for the type of swing he has.  Also, as you noted that has been discussed countless times on the forum - they were dealing with one manufacturer, one model of shaft with the same specs, other than flex... so it is truely an apples to apples comparison - otherwise you have apples to pomgranites comparisons.  

His dispersion was awesome with the x-shaft... and like you said... no real difference in distance (some ball speed differences, but seemingly minor).  There is something to be said for a more stiff shaft to hit more fairways.  I'm not breaking new ground with that statement.

[GolfSpy TCB]

5 minutes ago, AndySP said:

It would be really enlightening to participate in this test. I’m so jealous of those that get to do it.

I’ve always wanted to try something softer for feel, but I’ve never gotten the chance to make a direct comparison. 
 

I often wonder how much our swings adjust to what we have in the sense that even if I had a “bad” fit initially, I’ve now compensated to make it work for me after a year of practice/playing. 

One of the best parts to this test is that it was a total blind test.  Neither of them knew what flex the shaft was... so that "knowledge" didn't cloud the perception and swing.  While you may not be able to blind test (other than not looking at the shaft markings), places like PGA Tour Superstore will let you do some testing and comparisons between shafts - just not as in depth as a pay for fitting at Club Champion.  But if you are spending $5-6-700 on a driver... that $125 fitting fee might be well worth it.

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 minutes ago, AndySP said:

I often wonder how much our swings adjust to what we have in the sense that even if I had a “bad” fit initially, I’ve now compensated to make it work for me after a year of practice/playing. 

They adjust rather quickly. It’s why fitters only let a golfer hit 3-5 shots with a setup. After that the golfer starts adjusting to achieve a result.

 

8 minutes ago, AndySP said:

I’ve always wanted to try something softer for feel, but I’ve never gotten the chance to make a direct comparison. 

You will either have to blind buy and rest or go to a fitting. As mentioned in the fitting fitters will introduce extremes to see how the golfer reacts. They take both golfer feedback, what ball flight looks like and launch numbers then they start dialing in the setup with weight and profile 

[cnosil]

24 minutes ago, AndySP said:

I often wonder how much our swings adjust to what we have in the sense that even if I had a “bad” fit initially, I’ve now compensated to make it work for me after a year of practice/playing. 

Our swings “adjust” to accomplish the task we have set out to do; which is hit the ball.   When you have a bad fit, you make compensations to fix timing or launch or anything else you see.   When doing a fitting you hit limited shots with a combination because you start compensating very quickly.   
 

here’s an example: you are standing on the range and push your first three shots 30 yards right.  Are you going to keep doing the same thing or are you going to adjust something? 

[AndySP]

13 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

They adjust rather quickly. It’s why fitters only let a golfer hit 3-5 shots with a setup. After that the golfer starts adjusting to achieve a result.

 

11 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Our swings “adjust” to accomplish the task we have set out to do; which is hit the ball.   When you have a bad fit, you make compensations to fix timing or launch or anything else you see.   When doing a fitting you hit limited shots with a combination because you start compensating very quickly.   

Thanks guys.  Seems everything is in one way or another a “compensation” to try to get what you want? So then is the balance during a fit  getting enough shots to have a decent enough standard deviation to make a data comparison before numbers change, or is the feel of the timing just as important? Like if it feels weird, but I’m getting a good result, is that worth keeping?
 

I’m also interested in how well we engrain the adjustments in the long run too, such that if the adjustment or compensation isn’t too ‘bad’ that a bad fit ends up being ok later on.l or vice versa.

(Not trying to harp on the benefits of fitting, I have been fit before and will continue to do so before making changes, I just don’t have the $$ to do it.)

[RickyBobby_PR]

11 minutes ago, AndySP said:

Thanks guys.  Seems everything is in one way or another a “compensation” to try to get what you want?

Not necessarily. 

 

12 minutes ago, AndySP said:

So then is the balance during a fit  getting enough shots to have a decent enough standard deviation to make a data comparison before numbers change, or is the feel of the timing just as important? Like if it feels weird, but I’m getting a good result, is that worth keeping?

A fitting is to find a setup that works with one’s swing and not against it which would require the compensations to get desired shot results. The objective is to find a setup that optimizes launch characteristics so that the ball goes in the correct flight window and that the results from bad swings aren’t as penal as the current setup and that you get the best results from your good swings.

If it feels weird then it’s probably a bad fit.

15 minutes ago, AndySP said:

I’m also interested in how well we engrain the adjustments in the long run too, such that if the adjustment or compensation isn’t too ‘bad’ that a bad fit ends up being ok later on.l or vice versa.

This is what was discussed in the video regarding shaft 2. He could get a small bucket of balls and make the setup work but it would affect the rest of the bag and that compensation may not carry over from session to session and would require finding a way to work and probably wouldn’t be able to take it to the course or maintain it on the course, if he did then he might have issue with irons or wedges on the course 

[AndySP]

43 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This is what was discussed in the video regarding shaft 2. He could get a small bucket of balls and make the setup work but it would affect the rest of the bag and that compensation may not carry over from session to session and would require finding a way to work and probably wouldn’t be able to take it to the course or maintain it on the course, if he did then he might have issue with irons or wedges on the course 

I feel that, I was thinking even more long term. As someone who was initially not fit this well for a driver shaft, struggled a little and then got better results, I wonder if part of the journey was adapting to a new feel. Now a year later, maybe I shouldn’t worry about it until my dispersion changes for the worse or it starts to feel bad. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

14 minutes ago, AndySP said:

I feel that, I was thinking even more long term. As someone who was initially not fit this well for a driver shaft, struggled a little and then got better results, I wonder if part of the journey was adapting to a new feel. Now a year later, maybe I shouldn’t worry about it until my dispersion changes for the worse or it starts to feel bad. 

If you are in a bad fit then you will make compensations to make the club work. Will you get good results? Possibly. Will they be optimal? Maybe no.

Having I’ll fitting equipment will make the fame harder. You will constantly be adjusting to make things work. Not real different from those with bad swings. You can make it work but when you are having a bad day the results are going to ne worse than normal.

[AndySP]

40 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Having I’ll fitting equipment will make the fame harder. You will constantly be adjusting to make things work. Not real different from those with bad swings. You can make it work but when you are having a bad day the results are going to ne worse than normal.

I understand. Something future Andy will hopefully benefit from. I can’t say for sure whether I am ‘constantly’ adjusting. Im trying to get better/faster/smarter, but I don’t think I have enough experience with equipment to know the difference, if that makes sense. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

17 minutes ago, AndySP said:

I understand. Something future Andy will hopefully benefit from. I can’t say for sure whether I am ‘constantly’ adjusting. Im trying to get better/faster/smarter, but I don’t think I have enough experience with equipment to know the difference, if that makes sense. 

Most golfers are trying to impose. Someone who was fit and is making swing changes aren’t going to see drastic changes in the shaft they play, the loft and lie with irons.

But if trying to make swing changes with equipment that is already ill fitting it could possibly delay the improvement because they are fighting the equipment the whole time. A good instructor will be able to see if the equipment is helping or hurting