Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News

[GaDawg]

15 hours ago, Kenny B said:

I'm fairly certain the colleges have a class on protesting that is required to graduate.

Heck, they have that at most all colleges. I am certain that UGA has at least one class.

[Grand Stranded]

10 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Was exploring your link early this AM out of boredom and curiosity. And yes I know what killed the Kitty Cat. I see from their site the 3 day passes are already sold out. The one day passes not sure on the price since I have not attended an event in 20 years. Did not see any food or beverage prices either. With what Grand Stranded educated me on wonder if we will see protests outside the gate? 

One thing I saw happened with their first event was people who know how to do such things (I don’t) went to the profiles or social media accounts of players in the LIV and they received free or discounted tickets that weren’t available for sale to the general public.

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

One of the owners of my course is one of the coaches of his son's High School Golf team. In fact his son competed at Augusta in the DCP year before last. Sometimes they play matches at our course. They had one event with like 10 teams this past spring. I got a cart found me a good spot and watched. Trust me they can play. I know in the Spring of 23 they are having some kind of National event at our course and I have my cart and my spot in the shade reserved. Like I said I like watching good golf being played no matter who plays it. I know some of the members grumble on tournament days and are already mumbling about the 2 day spring event. One chided me over watching and I told him he was jealous because he could not play like them when he was their age much less now. In fact I dug the barb in deeper and told him hell fire he could not beat my crippled fat butt now much less those high schoolers hitting it 250 or more

Same. I got to play with a scratch golfer back in early 2000s at an event sponsored by one of our vendors. Watching him hit shot after shot and not missing his target most of the day was impressive. 
 

I used to watch the guys on base in the A flight of the base championships play. It’s a fun watch 

[TBS]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The level of golf being played in college and at high level junior ams is insane. The old mentality of having to bide your time before winning is gone and these young athletes are coming out ready to win now. 

This is a great point but I think golf might be unique where to be a top PGA tour player, you have to be really good for a LONG time. Every once in awhile you get generational talent but for the most part it takes mastering the mental game to be good. In my opinion, this is why Monday Qs, KFT, and mini tours do an excellent job at putting the best people on tour. 

With all of its flaws, the PGA tour is the best in pro sports at rewarding players simple on top performance. Which is one of the better arguments against LIV. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

20 minutes ago, TBS said:

This is a great point but I think golf might be unique where to be a top PGA tour player, you have to be really good for a LONG time. Every once in awhile you get generational talent but for the most part it takes mastering the mental game to be good. In my opinion, this is why Monday Qs, KFT, and mini tours do an excellent job at putting the best people on tour. 

With all of its flaws, the PGA tour is the best in pro sports at rewarding players simple on top performance. Which is one of the better arguments against LIV. 

Yes the generational player is unique and we haven’t really seen one since Tiger. There’s guys who are capable of being close and putting up 25-30 wins for a career which is great. There’s lots of big names that didn’t crack 20 win make and some would consider great. 
 

Also as some of these bigger names leave whether it’s for another tour, age or injury the door opens for the younger talent to step in. 
 

And yes it does take a different mindset to last, Wolff is a great example. Had a great college career, early success on tour but the tour life got to him mentally and combined with injury he slowly faded away while morikawa and hovland have had much better success.

what we are seeing from the younger crowd is the confidence that they can play and compete on tour right away and not being scared to do it compared to how younger golfers where in the past when they came on tour and the mentality was more of like you have to earn your spot before you are allowed to win

[PeterHenric]

The solution to this issue is to have the PGA reverse course and not ban the players from playing in LIV. Put your pride aside and move on.

[shootmyage]

like i said on page 34, 50 to 60 years from now the only golfers people will talk about will be    b. jones --b. hogan --s. sneed -- a. palmer -- j . nicklaus -- tiger woods. , people will be saying , rory who , justin who. , i can't see anyone ever winning 80 tour events or 18 majors , if tiger did not hurt his back because of all the swing changes with new coaches and the car wreck he would have over 100 wins and at least 23 majors .

[LICC]

1 hour ago, PeterHenric said:

The solution to this issue is to have the PGA reverse course and not ban the players from playing in LIV. Put your pride aside and move on.

Sure, and while they are at it why not just hand over Sawgrass and the Players Championship and all the contracts with its television broadcast partners to LIV, because who cares about having to survive as a business?

[Bang60]

On 6/28/2022 at 9:19 AM, PeterHenric said:

Wolff, Ortiz, and another dude are in now. The dominos keep falling.

Putting their results aside, Dechambeau, Johnson, and Wolff are 3 of my favorite guys to watch play because their games are not cookie cutter, picture perfect. I love watching different swings.

I've watched utube video showing the press conference with Bryson Mathew Abraham Brooks Pat Patrick, they all talked about the weekly grind playing 4-5 weeks in a row trying to protect their ranking even though they really needed a rest for their bodies to recover. I was not aware Brooks has serious problems with his knees, we don't know what it's like to play golf every day of the week week in week out. I used to play 5-6 games a week which was 36 holes on the weekend and one or two during the week and I did that for 5-6 years, then I started to get aches and pains so went back to 1 game a day. I'm restating my view the PGA is in serious trouble, they are going to have to change or there finished...

[PeterHenric]

3 hours ago, LICC said:

Sure, and while they are at it why not just hand over Sawgrass and the Players Championship and all the contracts with its television broadcast partners to LIV, because who cares about having to survive as a business?

No. That’s a serious logic leap there. They already grant players exemptions to go play in other tournaments. They could have done the same thing with these. It shouldn’t need to be an all or nothing deal, at least I don’t think so. 
I know that some tournaments draw stronger fields than others but looking at the John Deere this weekend does not get my interest. While the LIV field has not had a lot of recent wins, they are routinely in the featured/marquee groups week in and week out. Now they are gone forever. 
As a business owner, there are times where the saying “don’t cut off your nose to spite your face” is applicable. I FEEL like this is what the PGA has done. Instead of saying “This sucks but nothing we do will keep them from defecting. Let’s just make the best of a bad situation and move on.”

To be clear, I’m not addressing the sports washing issue. I’m just saying that a lot of big names that people love to watch (myself included) aren’t welcome on the tour anymore and that sucks for the tour and the fans. Just because you aren’t challenging for wins doesn’t mean people aren’t interested in watching them play. My opinion is the PGA overreacted. Feel free to disagree, that’s okay with me.

[RickyBobby_PR]

14 minutes ago, PeterHenric said:

They could have done the same thing with these. It shouldn’t need to be an all or nothing deal, at least I don’t think so. 
I know that some tournaments draw stronger fields than others but looking at the John Deere this weekend does not get my interest.

They do but not to tours that are trying to steal their players or take over their business. So yes it’s an all or nothing. The PGA tour is protecting these best interests.

While the John Deere doesn’t have your interest, the host city, businesses, the community benefit from the added attention and personnel staying, eating, possibly shopping there for the week and there is also ticket sales. 

[chisag]

1 hour ago, PeterHenric said:

To be clear, I’m not addressing the sports washing issue.

 

... Again this is like saying "Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" If you take away ... Not considering ... Other than this ... are all sentence starters that many won't get past. If this had been Canada for instance we would be having a different discussion but no rational organizers without another agenda would throw this kind of obscene money at players. And the thing is it is pretty clear so either this is a non starter for someone or it isn't. Not really any middle ground. I have been around too long not to know people draw their own moral lines in the sand, and expecting or trying to convince them to move it is almost always a futile attempt. 


 

 

 

[PeterHenric]

I’d like peoples opinions on this question:  If the PGA didn’t take such a firm stance on this and choose to ban players, would LIV have had to pay the players obscene amounts of money to make them leave the tour and would LIV be getting as much press as it is? 

[FrogginBullfish]

23 minutes ago, PeterHenric said:

I’d like peoples opinions on this question:  If the PGA didn’t take such a firm stance on this and choose to ban players, would LIV have had to pay the players obscene amounts of money to make them leave the tour and would LIV be getting as much press as it is? 

I'm fairly certain LIV was going to toss obscene amounts of money at as many players as they could regardless of how any of the established tours responded. Obscene starting salaries was the big selling point of LIV in the first place. It wasn't a response from LIV to the PGA Tour suspending defectors or even a response to the PGA Tour saying it would. It was the plan all along.

[Bang60]

1 hour ago, PeterHenric said:

I’d like peoples opinions on this question:  If the PGA didn’t take such a firm stance on this and choose to ban players, would LIV have had to pay the players obscene amounts of money to make them leave the tour and would LIV be getting as much press as it is? 

I'd say mostly in the affirmative yes, as Brooks said more people watching and talking about golf. I've said before if we look in our own neighborhood we can see wrong, I want to see the Liv tour as a positive...

[LICC]

3 hours ago, PeterHenric said:

I’d like peoples opinions on this question:  If the PGA didn’t take such a firm stance on this and choose to ban players, would LIV have had to pay the players obscene amounts of money to make them leave the tour and would LIV be getting as much press as it is? 

Yes and yes. 

[BIG STU]

12 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Yes the generational player is unique and we haven’t really seen one since Tiger. There’s guys who are capable of being close and putting up 25-30 wins for a career which is great. There’s lots of big names that didn’t crack 20 win make and some would consider great. 
 

Also as some of these bigger names leave whether it’s for another tour, age or injury the door opens for the younger talent to step in. 
 

And yes it does take a different mindset to last, Wolff is a great example. Had a great college career, early success on tour but the tour life got to him mentally and combined with injury he slowly faded away while morikawa and hovland have had much better success.

what we are seeing from the younger crowd is the confidence that they can play and compete on tour right away and not being scared to do it compared to how younger golfers where in the past when they came on tour and the mentality was more of like you have to earn your spot before you are allowed to win

I do not know if we will ever see a generational player like Jack or Tiger again. I have learned from watching the Jr golfers around my course it is a totally different ball game now from when I came up and even 20 years ago ( Tiger Era) These kids in High School and even younger have so many different stipulated comps now besides school golf teams. I can remember growing up we had one Junior golf event in the county and that was the County Junior event in the summer. We had the City Am too and you had to be at least 14 to attempt to qualify for it. I was the youngest at the time to do it even though I never won any of the Junior events. Now days they have all kinds of Jr Tours with kids as young as 11 or 12. Time they come out of college they are well accoustmed to the pressures of competetion. And now days we know so much more on the dynamics of the golf swing and the training reflects that. The fields are so deep now with so many talented players that I doubt we will ever see another Jack or Tiger just come out and kick butt for years. Still it takes work and talent and now days we have that in droves. 

[BIG STU]

Saw an interesting comment from Pat Perez this AM on one of my feeds. He stated his reason for joining the LIV was not because of the money but was to make a living and spend time with his family. He talked about missing the birth of his son because of the playoffs last year. Now I somewhat know PP and he was always the party guy but got married and settled down. At his age I could see where the birth of his first child was very important to him as it should be. At his age he is in the twilight of his career and I can see where he would want the money for his family. I think he did win a few PGA events but with getting older and all the hot shot young guys coming up I can see where he is coming from money wise. He is brutally honest and sometimes it rubs people wrong but that is his decision. I can see with the up front money and maybe playing a year or 2 his family's future should be good. IMHO he will probably make more money in the next year or so than he did his whole PGA Tour career

[Middler]

5 hours ago, PeterHenric said:

I’d like peoples opinions on this question:  If the PGA didn’t take such a firm stance on this and choose to ban players, would LIV have had to pay the players obscene amounts of money to make them leave the tour and would LIV be getting as much press as it is? 

A question that doesn’t even make sense. Why would PGA players leave for an upstart tour, funded with questionable money from a group that couldn’t care less about golf, for the same money? And you clearly don’t understand the PGA business model or how hosts, sponsors and TV revenue factor in.

[Bang60]

1 hour ago, Middler said:

PGA business model 

No your not listening to the players complaints about the business model, they want changes but can't get them so some have gone elsewhere. Now the PGA is changing the business model, is it soon enough not to lose too many players which leaves the PGA with no tour and therefore no business model....

[RickyBobby_PR]

6 hours ago, PeterHenric said:

I’d like peoples opinions on this question:  If the PGA didn’t take such a firm stance on this and choose to ban players, would LIV have had to pay the players obscene amounts of money to make them leave the tour and would LIV be getting as much press as it is? 

The LIV tour was going to throw money regardless. They want the big names and the best players, that was their goal from the beginning.

LIV didn’t care if they left the PGA tour or not as long as they played the LIV events.  Players only get a few exemptions to play another event on the same week as the pga tour event. The LIV has 8 events this year and most of not all happen to be at the same time as a pga tour event so the players were going to have to figure out how to play both tours.

[LICC]

2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

I do not know if we will ever see a generational player like Jack or Tiger again. I have learned from watching the Jr golfers around my course it is a totally different ball game now from when I came up and even 20 years ago ( Tiger Era) These kids in High School and even younger have so many different stipulated comps now besides school golf teams. I can remember growing up we had one Junior golf event in the county and that was the County Junior event in the summer. We had the City Am too and you had to be at least 14 to attempt to qualify for it. I was the youngest at the time to do it even though I never won any of the Junior events. Now days they have all kinds of Jr Tours with kids as young as 11 or 12. Time they come out of college they are well accoustmed to the pressures of competetion. And now days we know so much more on the dynamics of the golf swing and the training reflects that. The fields are so deep now with so many talented players that I doubt we will ever see another Jack or Tiger just come out and kick butt for years. Still it takes work and talent and now days we have that in droves. 

If the same 21 year-old Tiger Woods came along today he would dominate the next ten years now just the same as he did back then. 

[LICC]

13 minutes ago, Bang60 said:

No your not listening to the players complaints about the business model, they want changes but can't get them so some have gone elsewhere. Now the PGA is changing the business model, is it soon enough not to lose too many players which leaves the PGA with no tour and therefore no business model....

Players who left did it for the money. 

[BIG STU]

And something else that has not been brought up. I will step here lightly as not to violate forum rules. Before all of this LIV thing the PGA Tour did cancel a awards party or something like that at a course owned by a certain party. Then they canceled their event at a certain course in Florida owned by a certain fellow who used to reside in DC but now resides in Florida. Far as I am concerned that is all together a political move and a knee jerk reaction. And now that certain owner has 2 LIV events scheduled at 2 of his courses.   WHEEEW hope I tiptoed through the Tulips ok on that one if not I guess you guys will hear from me in a month or so

Edited June 29, 2022 by BIG STU

[TBS]

12 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Saw an interesting comment from Pat Perez this AM on one of my feeds. He stated his reason for joining the LIV was not because of the money but was to make a living and spend time with his family. He talked about missing the birth of his son because of the playoffs last year. Now I somewhat know PP and he was always the party guy but got married and settled down. At his age I could see where the birth of his first child was very important to him as it should be. At his age he is in the twilight of his career and I can see where he would want the money for his family. I think he did win a few PGA events but with getting older and all the hot shot young guys coming up I can see where he is coming from money wise. He is brutally honest and sometimes it rubs people wrong but that is his decision. I can see with the up front money and maybe playing a year or 2 his family's future should be good. IMHO he will probably make more money in the next year or so than he did his whole PGA Tour career

I listened to that interview too. I definitely feel for him on some level but it lacked perspective. Pat is playing a professional sport, by choice... There are plenty of other careers he could choose or pivot to once he realized he was going to have to fight every year to keep status. Nobody is making him miss his child's birth. He chose this career and bet on himself. Making millions of dollars should not be easy. 

I respect his honesty and for giving one of the strongest reasons to join LIV, but in my eyes, he is still outside of the top 100 players and is fun to watch on thrs/fridays bc he will probably miss the cut on a regular tour event. (This statement is false. I stand corrected he actually makes a decent amount of cuts and has played pretty well since 2017.)

Now Brooks in the press conference is total BS. Saying he hates the travel and grind when he only played like 16(?) events last year and LIV is going to make him play 14(?) next year. Dude, just say its for the money because you like money and 95% of people will stop caring.

[LICC]

5 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Saw an interesting comment from Pat Perez this AM on one of my feeds. He stated his reason for joining the LIV was not because of the money but was to make a living and spend time with his family. He talked about missing the birth of his son because of the playoffs last year. Now I somewhat know PP and he was always the party guy but got married and settled down. At his age I could see where the birth of his first child was very important to him as it should be. At his age he is in the twilight of his career and I can see where he would want the money for his family. I think he did win a few PGA events but with getting older and all the hot shot young guys coming up I can see where he is coming from money wise. He is brutally honest and sometimes it rubs people wrong but that is his decision. I can see with the up front money and maybe playing a year or 2 his family's future should be good. IMHO he will probably make more money in the next year or so than he did his whole PGA Tour career

Pat Perez has made $26 million in career earnings. Throw in his sponsorships. His family's future was secure regardless.

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, LICC said:

If the same 21 year-old Tiger Woods came along today he would dominate the next ten years now just the same as he did back then. 

IMO, he would be very successful, but not at the level that he was.  Tiger learned how to play the new style of golf at a very young age. Today most golfers play the calculated mathematical emotionless style of golf that Tiger employed successfully.  This is why we see so many young players winning and being successful.  What Tiger did possess that many players fail at was that he could maintain the mental focus and follow the plan for 72 holes ignoring what the other players were doing.  

[shootmyage]

i would add this  ---Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer were among the players who split from the PGA of America and hired Joe Dey as the tour's first commissioner in 1968.---

i think the commissioner now makes around $5 million a year , if you take out the 10 top money makers  i would guess the rest make under $500,000 before all costs .

liv is really helping the avg pga player .

 

  

 

 

[BIG STU]

28 minutes ago, TBS said:

I listened to that interview too. I definitely feel for him on some level but it lacked perspective. Pat is playing a professional sport, by choice... There are plenty of other careers he could choose or pivot to once he realized he was going to have to fight every year to keep status. Nobody is making him miss his child's birth. He chose this career and bet on himself. Making millions of dollars should not be easy. 

I respect his honesty and for giving one of the strongest reasons to join LIV, but in my eyes, he is still outside of the top 100 players and is fun to watch on thrs/fridays bc he will probably miss the cut on a regular tour event.

Now Brooks in the press conference is total BS. Saying he hates the travel and grind when he only played like 16(?) events last year and LIV is going to make him play 14(?) next year. Dude, just say its for the money because you like money and 95% of people will stop caring.

Oh yeah outside the top 100 and 46 yoa to boot and I respect his honesty. I guess back in the day he blew a lot of money ( his choice) and now he sees it as a chance to provide for his family responsibilly

[LICC]

27 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Today most golfers play the calculated mathematical emotionless style of golf that Tiger employed successfully.

Some do, some don't. But the style of play isn't the determining factor. Tiger was a transcendent talent. He would dominate exactly as he did.