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Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News


Thin2win
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We haven't had to say this in a while, but as a reminder to all that we are keeping this thread to the golf/signings and related content.

We are not going to get into the politics of it all and where the money is coming from etc.

If you wish to comment on that aspect of it all please feel free to do so on other platforms. Not here.

While much of LIV has become more accepted over the years there are still those who feel strongly against it and the backing. We respect all those who are both for and against LIV, however will not tolerate going into the weeds of all the "other stuff"

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1 hour ago, LICC said:

Pat Perez has made $26 million in career earnings. Throw in his sponsorships. His family's future was secure regardless.

How do you get to say what amount of money one needs to secure their families livelihood? 
 

This is weak person’s mindset and whether one admits it or not is jealousy of another person’s success. 
 

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Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

How do you get to say what amount of money one needs to secure their families livelihood? 
 

This is weak person’s mindset and whether one admits it or not is jealousy of another person’s success. 
 

This has nothing to do with jealousy. This is about the false notion that Pat Perez somehow needed LIV to make sure his family had a secure lifestyle. 

It's pretty easy to look at household wealth and income statistics and conclude that $26 million in career earnings plus more in sponsorships and other activities is sufficient to secure a family's livelihood.

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44 minutes ago, LICC said:

It's pretty easy to look at household wealth and income statistics and conclude that $26 million in career earnings plus more in sponsorships and other activities is sufficient to secure a family's livelihood.

Probably way off topic, but It helps in understanding a persons perspective.   How much money does someone need to have to secure a family’s livelihood?   I can look at general household wealth and income statistics all day but it doesn’t tell me how much I need to support my family and live out my life.   Granted someone that has made $26 million should appear to be secure but we don’t know that persons lifestyle or how they spend that money.  If we look at trends withlottery winners, they are often broke after a few years because if how they spent their money.  We can also find people that have a net worth of less than $100k and they believe they have enough to secure their families lifestyle.  like you, I can provide an opinion and I personally believe that $26 million in career earnings should be enough, but we have no knowledge of his actual financial standing.  

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8 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Probably way off topic, but It helps in understanding a persons perspective.   How much money does someone need to have to secure a family’s livelihood?   I can look at general household wealth and income statistics all day but it doesn’t tell me how much I need to support my family and live out my life.   Granted someone that has made $26 million should appear to be secure but we don’t know that persons lifestyle or how they spend that money.  If we look at trends it’s lottery winners, they are often broke after a few years because if how they spent their money.  We can also find people that have a net worth of less than $100k and they believe they have enough to secure their families lifestyle.  like you, I can provide an opinion and I personally believe that $26 million in career earnings should be enough, but we have no knowledge of his actual financial standing.  

Good commentary - this is why it feels like Pat's comments simply lacked perspective. He framed it that he only has 2 options: Join LIV or continue to play 30+ events a year. When we all know there are a number of other options for him to live the lifestyle he wants (needs?).

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I waded through all the post last night and this morning. I saw nothing about LIV winnings. My understanding (possibly wrong) was that the first tournament winner, Schwartzel did not in fact get $4 million ~. It was a draw from his contract amount. The bonus and team money may have been actual checks but winnings are a draw from upfront compensation. DJ got a reported $125 million but contracts/compensation with LIV are opaque. 

My opinion - complaints about too much work, upset work/life/family balance are BS for the mid-tier and higher rated golfers. They already could pick and choose weeks to play, 15 tourneys minimum is not onerous. Sucks to be away from home/family. They should try nine deployments to Middle East/Afghanistan, 24/7, 16+ hours a day. The others guys never yelled - FORE! when there was incoming.  /my opinion. 

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i am 84 , 85 in sept ,been golfing 60yrs , usga 11h , i for the life of me can not understand all the bad talk about the liv golf .

everyone has one life to live , if someone has a chance play golf for more money  , 3 days , no cuts (  out of work  for the week  ) , spending more time with loved ones .

pga tour if you make the cut and finish in the middle  you may make around 50k , liv middle around  130k plus team $$

i think all pro golfers around the world don't make they are worth .

liv will make the pga tour a better thing .

 

 

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9 hours ago, Bang60 said:

No your not listening to the players complaints about the business model, they want changes but can't get them so some have gone elsewhere. Now the PGA is changing the business model, is it soon enough not to lose too many players which leaves the PGA with no tour and therefore no business model....

I haven't heard anyone complain about how they're treated by the PGA except Mickelson and Norman - two of the highest paid athletes in any sport. The others just stated they wanted to play less and make more, which others complained about the PGA? And there's no way the PGA can match what LIV is paying - that's not one of their options.

But say what you want. I'm not interested in LIV, and new people keep chiming in on this thread some who don't know the background, so we retrace steps over and over. Whatever...

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7 hours ago, TBS said:

I respect his honesty and for giving one of the strongest reasons to join LIV, but in my eyes, he is still outside of the top 100 players and is fun to watch on thrs/fridays bc he will probably miss the cut on a regular tour event.

Perez 12/19 cuts made this season with three top 25's and just over $1M in winnings.  But as he noted, already had played 19 weeks.

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1 hour ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Perez 12/19 cuts made this season with three top 25's and just over $1M in winnings.  But as he noted, already had played 19 weeks.

I don’t recall seeing him in any weekend TV coverage of any event. 

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Interesting comments from Fred Couples saying he doesn't think he'll ever talk to Phil again after Phil's defection to LIV...

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34 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Interesting comments from Fred Couples saying he doesn't think he'll ever talk to Phil again after Phil's defection to LIV...

JT had a great interview with Soly on the NLU podcast. The biggest takeaway is that this split will become personal. 
 

If LIV guys sue the PGA tour, they are suing all of the members. That’s personal. I have much more respect for the guys who have resigned their membership. 
 

Also check out Jimmy Dunne’s interview in SI from earlier this month. 
 

https://www.si.com/golf/.amp/news/one-of-golfs-most-connected-amateurs-has-much-to-say-on-liv-and-none-of-it-positive

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18 hours ago, cnosil said:

Probably way off topic, but It helps in understanding a persons perspective.   How much money does someone need to have to secure a family’s livelihood?   I can look at general household wealth and income statistics all day but it doesn’t tell me how much I need to support my family and live out my life.   Granted someone that has made $26 million should appear to be secure but we don’t know that persons lifestyle or how they spend that money.  If we look at trends withlottery winners, they are often broke after a few years because if how they spent their money.  We can also find people that have a net worth of less than $100k and they believe they have enough to secure their families lifestyle.  like you, I can provide an opinion and I personally believe that $26 million in career earnings should be enough, but we have no knowledge of his actual financial standing.  

Exactly has to do with ones perspective in life. Both of us are retired drawing SS with me drawing SSDI. I would say our net worth is a smidge over 100K---- Our home is an 87 model Mobile home but it has been long paid for. In fact I paid cash for it in 98 when I bought it. Everything we own is paid for. Just have like insurance on the vehicles which are both paid for and utitlities. We do not live above our means but not really chintzy either. I am tight on some things but I see myself as practical. But yeah we are comfortable in our lifestyle and have no regrets. A lot of my practicality comes from my Grand Dad who lived and farmed during the Great Depression. I learned most of my mechanical skills from him and have the attitude in why throw it away when I can fix it? But like I said different folks have different tastes in life and that is where the money comes in

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23 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

But like I said different folks have different tastes in life and that is where the money comes in

That is not a justification for someone with $26 million in career earnings and more to say they need to play for LIV in order to provide a sufficient lifestyle for their family. They are already in stratospheric wealth levels. Playing for LIV is being a greedy sell out, plain and simple. And for a few who feel aggrieved by the PGA Tour it is also a way to attack the Tour

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11 minutes ago, LICC said:

That is not a justification for someone with $26 million in career earnings and more to say they need to play for LIV in order to provide a sufficient lifestyle for their family. They are already in stratospheric wealth levels. Playing for LIV is being a greedy sell out, plain and simple. And for a few who feel aggrieved by the PGA Tour it is also a way to attack the Tour

Boy that is being judgemental----- Who am I or you to say what is justification for anyone's lifestyle? Yeah I know this is a "golf discussion forum" so I have now discussed my opinion along with you discussing yours. And we do not agree ok cool by me

I will say as a proud veteran---- I may not agree with your opinion but I will for damn sure stand beside you and fight to the death need be for your right to express it

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8 hours ago, TBS said:

JT had a great interview with Soly on the NLU podcast. The biggest takeaway is that this split will become personal. 
 

If LIV guys sue the PGA tour, they are suing all of the members. That’s personal. I have much more respect for the guys who have resigned their membership. 
 

Also check out Jimmy Dunne’s interview in SI from earlier this month. 
 

https://www.si.com/golf/.amp/news/one-of-golfs-most-connected-amateurs-has-much-to-say-on-liv-and-none-of-it-positive

From reading some of my feeds honestly one does not know what is true or not. Shots being fired from both sides. And yes like on here and any other social media platforms they are various opinions.

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15 hours ago, MGoBlue100 said:

Perez 12/19 cuts made this season with three top 25's and just over $1M in winnings.  But as he noted, already had played 19 weeks.

Now factor in travel costs, taxes, the money he owes his caddy, any fees he owes his agent, accountant and/or lawyer. That $1million disappears rather quickly.

If he brings the family along for any part of that the travel expenses go up even more. 

 

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10 hours ago, TBS said:

Nice read, thanks for the link!

 

Good hand action comes from good body action.     

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11 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Now factor in travel costs, taxes, the money he owes his caddy, any fees he owes his agent, accountant and/or lawyer. That $1million disappears rather quickly.

If he brings the family along for any part of that the travel expenses go up even more. 

 

Don’t forget the financial backers that helped support him early in his career possibly for a percentage of future earnings.   And the various coaches that players employ throughout their careers.  

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2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Don’t forget the financial backers that helped support him early in his career possibly for a percentage of future earnings.   And the various coaches that players employ throughout their careers.  

Exactly. No idea how much money goes out in expenses. All that and he still has to pay for his house and all related expenses, vehicles, whatever else the family needs. 
 

He’s been a pro for 25 years, so if we use the $26million stated earlier it’s just over $1million gross/year average. It’s not as much a some people think it is. 
 

Then factor in his age and that his earning potential on the pga tour is going to drop every year and he would probably need to play the champions tour to have some form of money coming in which means more time on the road and away from family.  Now with live he’s probably going to get that $26million and possibly more for signing with them plus his earnings from no cut events, less time. Way from family and may not have to play the champions tour if he doesn’t want to. So even more time with the family 

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50 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Exactly. No idea how much money goes out in expenses. All that and he still has to pay for his house and all related expenses, vehicles, whatever else the family needs. 
 

He’s been a pro for 25 years, so if we use the $26million stated earlier it’s just over $1million gross/year average. It’s not as much a some people think it is. 
 

Then factor in his age and that his earning potential on the pga tour is going to drop every year and he would probably need to play the champions tour to have some form of money coming in which means more time on the road and away from family.  Now with live he’s probably going to get that $26million and possibly more for signing with them plus his earnings from no cut events, less time. Way from family and may not have to play the champions tour if he doesn’t want to. So even more time with the family 

There is a disconnect here. You make it sound like he would be having trouble making a mortgage payment and paying the electric bills. The biggest expenses are taxes and his caddy (which is probably tax deductible). The rest (travel expenses, lawyer fees, etc.) is relatively small. 

The $1 million is not disappearing by any means. At a minimum after taxes and expenses $1 million would translate into netting $650k.

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14 minutes ago, LICC said:

There is a disconnect here. You make it sound like he would be having trouble making a mortgage payment and paying the electric bills. The biggest expenses are taxes and his caddy (which is probably tax deductible). The rest (travel expenses, lawyer fees, etc.) is relatively small. 

The $1 million is not disappearing by any means. At a minimum after taxes and expenses $1 million would translate into netting $650k.

What I’m saying is you don’t get to determine what is enough money that someone has already made or what they think they need to secure their families future.

How do you know what he pays for his lawyers, attorney, or any other expenses he has related to being a self employed person. Most of those things range in the 10+% range.

It’s none of your business what his financials are or what he needs. That’s just being petty and jealous of another persons success. 
 

by your logic athletes in other sports shouldn’t leave the team they are with or take more money from their current team because they’ve already made enough money and staying at the current pay is more than enough.

Hes choosing the best situation that gives him the freedom of how he wants to spend his time.

 

🏻

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Legit question - are there equipment trucks from the major OEMs there? I know for some of the smaller tourneys and LPGA they have a few general equipment guys but not necessarily OEM specific.

Interesting angle as Phil is tinkerer, P Reed seems like someone who would want to try out multiple custom grinds etc.

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7 minutes ago, TBS said:

Legit question - are there equipment trucks from the major OEMs there? I know for some of the smaller tourneys and LPGA they have a few general equipment guys but not necessarily OEM specific.

Interesting angle as Phil is tinkerer, P Reed seems like someone who would want to try out multiple custom grinds etc.

No.  There was a story on WRX about this.  There is a trailer there from a non equipment company that is taking care of any club building needs.

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22 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

What I’m saying is you don’t get to determine what is enough money that someone has already made or what they think they need to secure their families future.

How do you know what he pays for his lawyers, attorney, or any other expenses he has related to being a self employed person. Most of those things range in the 10+% range.

It’s none of your business what his financials are or what he needs. That’s just being petty and jealous of another persons success. 
 

by your logic athletes in other sports shouldn’t leave the team they are with or take more money from their current team because they’ve already made enough money and staying at the current pay is more than enough.

Hes choosing the best situation that gives him the freedom of how he wants to spend his time.

 

🏻

I and anyone else can easily determine that $26 million in career earnings is well more than enough to provide a secure lifestyle for anyone’s family. 
 

I’m not jealous of anyone. I’m just not ignoring the fact that these players are choosing to be stooges for the Saudis fir the sole reason of making more money. I’m not falsely justifying it by saying they have to do this to avoid family financial struggles. 
 

Athletes who switch teams aren’t sportswashing stooges. 

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7 minutes ago, cnosil said:

No.  There was a story on WRX about this.  There is a trailer there from a non equipment company that is taking care of any club building needs.

https://www.golfwrx.com/680317/inside-scoop-heres-how-the-liv-golf-tour-will-handle-on-site-equipment-needs-for-players-at-each-u-s-event/

Here's the link if anyone is curious. I wonder how the golfers feel about it when they are used to multiple equipment trucks. They may not care tbh.

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:titelist-small: TS2 16.5* HL Oban Kiyoshi Purple 75g stiff

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9 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

My goodness I despise this whole topic. 

They as individuals can choose what they want. We don't have to like it or agree with it, but our opinions are quite frankly not going to make a dent in what happens. 

Don't like it or like it, care or not care this thing is going forward. 

For all, feel free to state opinions as this is what the forum is for, both also recognize members are going to have theirs which may not line up with another members. That is okay.

Added to the that the chance of anyone changing anyone's mind here is slim to none. Find a way to accept that and move on.

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Driver - default_taylormade-small.jpg R9 Superdeep TP 10.5* - Mitsubishi Rayon Diamana 65g XStiff Shaft

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3 minutes ago, shootmyage said:

i do not blame any player for going to the liv tour , good for them , its their life , i would do the same thing ., everyone keeps saying how bad the saudi government is , i agree  , we import 550,000 barrels of oil a day ( 55 million $$ ) from the saudi's , i guess i will have to start riding my bicycle .

 

china has worse human rights than any country on earth , i guess i will throw my golf clubs in a lake and shop for persimmon or laminated walnut driver , old wilson irons .

as far as the idiot reporters asking the stupid questions , there is not one of them that would not quit his job if he was offered 3-5 times the money he is making now and work around 50 days a year .and get a great sign in bonus .

its just a golf game , golfers are people just trying to live their life .

 

 

 

 

 

This type of argument has been discussed at length earlier in the thread. Let's try to keep comments new/fresh and differing perspectives.

 :taylormade-small: M6 12* Oban Kiyoshi Purple 65g stiff

:titelist-small: TS2 16.5* HL Oban Kiyoshi Purple 75g stiff

:ping-small:  G410 Hybrid 19* Tour stiff 

:ping-small: i210 KBS tour stiff 4-GW

:cleveland-small: 54* RTX Zipcore

:ping-small: 58* glide 3.0

:taylormade-small:  TP Black Copper Juno 34in

Oncore elixr or Snell MTBx

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Looks like a hybrid setup. Having played both courses this will be interesting to see. Might just watch to see the courses again. 

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