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Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News


Thin2win
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We haven't had to say this in a while, but as a reminder to all that we are keeping this thread to the golf/signings and related content.

We are not going to get into the politics of it all and where the money is coming from etc.

If you wish to comment on that aspect of it all please feel free to do so on other platforms. Not here.

While much of LIV has become more accepted over the years there are still those who feel strongly against it and the backing. We respect all those who are both for and against LIV, however will not tolerate going into the weeds of all the "other stuff"

If you are not sure whether you should post something either ask a mod or don't post it. 

As we have before we will continue to moderate, remove or edit posts that go against our moral code and members will receive alerts or warnings to follow.

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1 hour ago, RollingGreens said:

I’d love to see the PGA tour and Koran ferry tour operate like the premiere league. Relegation for players losing their card or playing poorly. Those who are keeping their play high can play on the premier stage 

It is that way. Top 125 in FedEx cup keep their card, those with exemptions have their status. Iirc 126-150 can play kft playoffs to try and earn a card. Each year a certain number of cards are given to kft members. One can earn a pga tour card with three wins during kft season

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7 hours ago, Bang60 said:

I'm interested in how many people are like me are jacked off with the "bullocks" going on and have moved into watching other sports, plus a lot of content on utube that's FREE..

As soon as major season was over I haven't watched 5 minutes of pro golf. 

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14 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

so they can switch up to the shotgun start format.  I really like getting the entire round/field finished in 5 hours.

I don't get this take from people. If you want to watch for 5 hours, or for just 3 hours or for just 2 hours, then watch the last few hours. On the weekend you will see as much as you want of the groups leading the tournament. Shotgun starts for pro tournaments is just goofy IMO. And to not see the two or three players in contention to win playing the same holes to end the tournament lessens the experience. How would the British Open have been better this year with a shotgun start?

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22 hours ago, LICC said:

It’s really just the top 60 or so that have viewer appeal anyway. The trick will be doing enough for the up and comers that have to work their way up to the top 60. 

This where I think that my proposal makes sense - 

 

It was actually this way on tour once - there were about 50 guaranteed spots each week and everyone else Monday qualified.  I'm suggesting big money no cut events for 60 once a month or every other week - periodically, not every week.  After that event the bottom 10 - however that bottom 10 is determined (world rankings perhaps?) go back into the general pool that play in the next series of events to get back into that top 60 for the next big no cut event.  I think that creates ongoing interest in places like my area (Valspar) or Hartford or Quad Cities - there will be good, meaningful golf for those tournaments - very competitive.  It's a way to keep enough big names on tour as well - with a top 50 that gets to compete for big money 10-15 times a season - just what LiV is doing only there's a way to play oneself on it.  

 

I do not like the shot gun start BTW - course designers design courses to have flows, that flow is totally disrupted by a shot gun start - fine for us in a charity scramble - not so fine for guys competing for big bucks at the highest level.  I don't even like the split tee starts for tour events and particularly for the majors - I understand why but if you reduced the field for these big events you could eliminate them. I suspect there are some TPC courses that were designed with split tee starts in mind - Sawgrass for example has a wonderful symmetry to it.  I'm certain Pete Dye knew that it would mainly be seen in split tee events.  

 

At any rate I think tour leadership botched this entire thing by failing to listen to disgruntled players.  It's very easy for us to sit here and say - how can someone making 2 million dollars be disgruntled - but clearly a number of them are/were because they believe/believed that they deserve a larger share of the pie.  That needed to be addressed - it wasn't and so now we have what we have.

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6 hours ago, LICC said:

I don't get this take from people. If you want to watch for 5 hours, or for just 3 hours or for just 2 hours, then watch the last few hours. On the weekend you will see as much as you want of the groups leading the tournament. Shotgun starts for pro tournaments is just goofy IMO. And to not see the two or three players in contention to win playing the same holes to end the tournament lessens the experience. How would the British Open have been better this year with a shotgun start?

Not to mention the networks want to sell as much advertising time as possible, so their incentive is more hours, not less...

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7 hours ago, revkev said:

At any rate I think tour leadership botched this entire thing by failing to listen to disgruntled players.  It's very easy for us to sit here and say - how can someone making 2 million dollars be disgruntled - but clearly a number of them are/were because they believe/believed that they deserve a larger share of the pie.  That needed to be addressed - it wasn't and so now we have what we have.

At any rate I think tour leadership botched this entire thing by failing to listen to disgruntled players. 

 

I think Tiger and the top 60 are providing more bullets for Liv to fire in court, Liv can say why has the tour copied Liv limited numbers and bigger purses if the PGA tour is so good?

I’m a hacker who loves nothing more than to change how I play, be that grips shafts and heads its all fair game lol…

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2 hours ago, Bang60 said:

At any rate I think tour leadership botched this entire thing by failing to listen to disgruntled players. 

 

I think Tiger and the top 60 are providing more bullets for Liv to fire in court, Liv can say why has the tour copied Liv limited numbers and bigger purses if the PGA tour is so good?

Sure they can say that but I don’t know how that helps or hurts their court case. 

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6 hours ago, revkev said:

Sure they can say that but I don’t know how that helps or hurts their court case. 

I worked in corporate bad debt recovery in Sydney and I’ve seen lawyers tell some embellished stories and the court accepted it, because the other side weren’t as convincing and most importantly what’s the sitting judge think about the pga or Liv. Is the judge a golf lover or hater, did one side miss a disclosure and therefore can’t present some crucial evidence. Going to court so many possible problems it’s scary and you can lose on a technicality….

I’m a hacker who loves nothing more than to change how I play, be that grips shafts and heads its all fair game lol…

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4 minutes ago, Ben_Howell34 said:

I see MGS has LIV ads now…

Really?

Rick

 

 

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Watching the presser right now, someone asked Monaghan if any LIV players would ever be allowed back in if they renounced LIV and his answer was a definite “No. They made their choice and we’ve made ours.” I guess that answers that.

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$500k advance for players, aka Earnings Assurance Program. Recouped against their winnings. Interesting.

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On 8/21/2022 at 4:47 PM, Thin2win said:

Seems really good of you are in the top 60. Seems not so great if you aren't.

Good for keeping some of the top talent in tour.  Will have to see how it plays out and if it is better for viewership.

I don't know. I think it might provide a clearer path for Korn Ferry Tour guys. The proposal is purposefully vague so the Tour could implement something that has tiers on the Korn Ferry Tour, too. Think about the possibility of having a clear up for promotion 30 KFT guys. It would make it much easier to follow developmental tours for the average fans. May even increase attendance at "elevated" KFT events when you know this group is fighting for their card. 

All of this would still need to be worked out, but the possibility is there.

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I read the letter from the tour…increase money, higher tier events for top name players, guarantee to get in other events….almost like all of this is about money.   If the players are right about it being about winning majors and the traditions of the PGA tour,  they should t need to increase money, the players should just come because they are the best “employer” and have the best product, and provide the measuring stake for how players want to be judged.   Guess it really all comes back to money even on the PGA Tour.  

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12 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I read the letter from the tour…increase money, higher tier events for top name players, guarantee to get in other events….almost like all of this is about money.   If the players are right about it being about winning majors and the traditions of the PGA tour,  they should t need to increase money, the players should just come because they are the best “employer” and have the best product, and provide the measuring stake for how players want to be judged.   Guess it really all comes back to money even on the PGA Tour.  

Well- I think Jay needs to really be clear where this money is coming from. He didnt just meet with the CFO and say find the extra millions that we have hidden. This has been years long play when they renegotiated TV contracts long before LIV. So the tour is doing exactly what its setup to do pay the players as much as possible. 

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6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I read the letter from the tour…increase money, higher tier events for top name players, guarantee to get in other events….almost like all of this is about money.   If the players are right about it being about winning majors and the traditions of the PGA tour,  they should t need to increase money, the players should just come because they are the best “employer” and have the best product, and provide the measuring stake for how players want to be judged.   Guess it really all comes back to money even on the PGA Tour.  

i did like the $5000 jay said (he must be reading my posts on this forum) they are giving to the have nots to help with their expenses , i still don't know how someone breaks into the top 20 and when ( 1 to 2 years ).and how they will kick someone out of the top 20 , if a player out of the top 20 shots 20-25 under par and and wins 4-5 tournaments in say 3 months , can he get into the top 20 .

for the tour to do all the things jm wants i would think the big loser will be the charities as they will get much less . w/o a lot of the top 20 not playing the phoenix open  the number of fans going for the 5 days will drop from 700,000 to around 400,000 to  500000 , also to watch the top 20 on tv i would think it will be a pay for view which will cut out a lot of people like me living on ss from watching , but that's part of life now days where everything is about the money .

i know this is very long but does anyone know who is on the top 20 , i keep hearing r. fowler's name . 

it's going to be a very interesting next couple of weeks ..

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1 hour ago, TBS said:

I don't know. I think it might provide a clearer path for Korn Ferry Tour guys. The proposal is purposefully vague so the Tour could implement something that has tiers on the Korn Ferry Tour, too. Think about the possibility of having a clear up for promotion 30 KFT guys. It would make it much easier to follow developmental tours for the average fans. May even increase attendance at "elevated" KFT events when you know this group is fighting for their card. 

All of this would still need to be worked out, but the possibility is there.

The kft guys have a clear path now. Win 3 events and you get automatic promotion or finish in the top 25 or 30 at the end of the year and you get your tour card.

 

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I read the letter from the tour…increase money, higher tier events for top name players, guarantee to get in other events….almost like all of this is about money.   If the players are right about it being about winning majors and the traditions of the PGA tour,  they should t need to increase money, the players should just come because they are the best “employer” and have the best product, and provide the measuring stake for how players want to be judged.   Guess it really all comes back to money even on the PGA Tour.  

to my mind, it actually comes back to branding. the LIV golf guys are getting a ton of money to effectively disappear themselves and make a substantial percentage of the audience hate them, or at least hate their actions. they never have to worry about money, but now they don’t have an audience who knows or cares what they do on their weekdays+saturday exhibitions. those actually playing tournament golf still get to be on tv every week, so they stay in the hearts and minds and wallets of the public, which enables future earning opportunities.

If it weren’t for LIV’s 9/11 connection, I would shamelessly take the money, because, less work for more pay, but that’s because I value my privacy and can’t imagine anything worse than being famous and people wanting to bother me all the time. pro golfers aren’t like that, they are prima donnas i’m sure all jealous of the young stars who have moved in to fill the vaccuum and take the spotlight. LIV’s biggest problem, other than the exhibition only nature of their competitions, is what i’m talking about here.  LIV needs to get on TV and get people to forget that 9/11 ever happened. 

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10 minutes ago, ryan.mzzz said:

those actually playing tournament golf still get to be on tv every week, so they stay in the hearts and minds and wallets of the public, which enables future earning opportunities.

 

Those play8mg tournament golf are not in my mind, heart, or wallet.  They are simply a source of entertainment and I don’t care who is being shown shown.  I get more enjoyment out of watching the LPGA, the college events, and USGA amateur than I do the PGA tour.   If they disappeared completely it really wouldn’t phase me much.  

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5 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Those play8mg tournament golf are not in my mind, heart, or wallet.  They are simply a source of entertainment and I don’t care who is being shown shown.  I get more enjoyment out of watching the LPGA, the college events, and USGA amateur than I do the PGA tour.   If they disappeared completely it really wouldn’t phase me much.  

you don’t buy products promoted by any golfer ever? we all do, and we are the audience that’s sold to the advertisers by the tour. I don’t mean it to be personal to you specifically, but in general.

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D       ______ Ping G400
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X{3|19} ______ Ping G425 Hybrid 
I{5|24} {6|27} {7|31} {8|35} {9|40} Callaway Apex CF16

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W{54|58} _____ Vokey SM9
P ____________ L.A.B. DF 2.1 w/ Stability

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12 minutes ago, ryan.mzzz said:

you don’t buy products promoted by any golfer ever? we all do, and we are the audience that’s sold to the advertisers by the tour. I don’t mean it to be personal to you specifically, but in general.

I don’t buy any product based on what celebrity, athlete, talking head on tv promoters it’s.

For sports gear it has to perform for me to buy it. For electronics I read up on the tech, see what the professionals in the field have to say and then determine what’s best for my use.

 

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30 minutes ago, ryan.mzzz said:

you don’t buy products promoted by any golfer ever? we all do, and we are the audience that’s sold to the advertisers by the tour. I don’t mean it to be personal to you specifically, but in general.

I don't buy products promoted by any particular player even though I have some favorites. But I won't buy some products who are promoted by players I can't stand (Garcia, DeChambeau, Mickelson, Holmes, Norman and now most if not all of LIV). If we all stop buying LIV player endorsed products it will impact their endorsement income, but I'm not holding my breath...

TBH MGS is the biggest influence on what I buy, just look at my sig line and there's much more...😇 

 

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6 minutes ago, Middler said:

I don't buy products promoted by any particular player even though I have some favorites. But I won't buy some products who are promoted by players I can't stand (Garcia, DeChambeau, Mickelson, Holmes, Norman and now most if not all of LIV). If we all stop buying LIV player endorsed products it will impact their endorsement income, but I'm not holding my breath...

TBH MGS is the biggest influence on what I buy, just look at my sig line and there's much more...😇 

 

 

21 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t buy any product based on what celebrity, athlete, talking head on tv promoters it’s.

For sports gear it has to perform for me to buy it. For electronics I read up on the tech, see what the professionals in the field have to say and then determine what’s best for my use.

 

i applaud the sentiment. I also fight to do what you guys claim to, but even so, I’m human, and advertising works on humans, in general. Maybe you guys and others on this particular message board are exceptions. 

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X{3|19} ______ Ping G425 Hybrid 
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P ____________ L.A.B. DF 2.1 w/ Stability

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2 hours ago, cnosil said:

I read the letter from the tour…increase money, higher tier events for top name players, guarantee to get in other events….almost like all of this is about money.   If the players are right about it being about winning majors and the traditions of the PGA tour,  they should t need to increase money, the players should just come because they are the best “employer” and have the best product, and provide the measuring stake for how players want to be judged.   Guess it really all comes back to money even on the PGA Tour.  

Looks to me like Mickelson was correct, The PGA has been holding money back from the players. I guess Monahan decided to react and start spending some of it.

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2 hours ago, cnosil said:

I read the letter from the tour…increase money, higher tier events for top name players, guarantee to get in other events….almost like all of this is about money.   If the players are right about it being about winning majors and the traditions of the PGA tour,  they should t need to increase money, the players should just come because they are the best “employer” and have the best product, and provide the measuring stake for how players want to be judged.   Guess it really all comes back to money even on the PGA Tour.  

Money is part of it. Not all of it, and not none of it, but part of it. 

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1 minute ago, GaDawg said:

Looks to me like Mickelson was correct, The PGA has been holding money back from the players. I guess Monahan decided to react and start spending some of it.

What are you basing that on? Increased spending on PIP and purses? That is not an A to B conclusion you can make without more facts and analysis.

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1 hour ago, MacTourney said:

The PGA Tour blinked.

If they blink again after Sunday, they will loose more players to LIV.

Driver: :titelist-small: TSI3 - 10*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff

Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus - 10.5*, Oban Kiyoshi Purple O4Flex-65 Grams Purred
3 Wood: :taylormade-small: SIM - 15*, Graphite Design Tour AD DJ5 Stiff
Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS3 - 19*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff
Irons: :titelist-small:  5 - PW T150, with Nippon Zelos 7 Reg, 4 iron - U505 with Project X HZRDUS Black Stiff

Wedges: :titelist-small: Vokey SM 8 - 50*, 60* Standard Wedge Shafts

Wedge: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 MG3 56* S200 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Studio Select Newport 1.5        
Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Phantom X 5.5
Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1x

 

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36 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t buy any product based on what celebrity, athlete, talking head on tv promoters it’s.

For sports gear it has to perform for me to buy it. For electronics I read up on the tech, see what the professionals in the field have to say and then determine what’s best for my use.

 

Agree totally.

Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior  
5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr       
7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2
Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56*

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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Driver: :titelist-small: TSI3 - 10*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff

Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus - 10.5*, Oban Kiyoshi Purple O4Flex-65 Grams Purred
3 Wood: :taylormade-small: SIM - 15*, Graphite Design Tour AD DJ5 Stiff
Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS3 - 19*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff
Irons: :titelist-small:  5 - PW T150, with Nippon Zelos 7 Reg, 4 iron - U505 with Project X HZRDUS Black Stiff

Wedges: :titelist-small: Vokey SM 8 - 50*, 60* Standard Wedge Shafts

Wedge: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 MG3 56* S200 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Studio Select Newport 1.5        
Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Phantom X 5.5
Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1x

 

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