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Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News


Thin2win
Message added by GolfSpy_APH,

We haven't had to say this in a while, but as a reminder to all that we are keeping this thread to the golf/signings and related content.

We are not going to get into the politics of it all and where the money is coming from etc.

If you wish to comment on that aspect of it all please feel free to do so on other platforms. Not here.

While much of LIV has become more accepted over the years there are still those who feel strongly against it and the backing. We respect all those who are both for and against LIV, however will not tolerate going into the weeds of all the "other stuff"

If you are not sure whether you should post something either ask a mod or don't post it. 

As we have before we will continue to moderate, remove or edit posts that go against our moral code and members will receive alerts or warnings to follow.

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16 minutes ago, cardia10 said:

Never said in the US. They have been allowed in Europe, SAUDIA ARABIA, China and Japan without a release at opposite field PGA events and many still hold dual membership on DP tour which the PGA has basically bullied and taken over. Certain PGA players are bigger than the tour and they know it and use it at every opportunity to get what they want. That is a big reason that so many players have left. If the top 10 get every benefit and payout coming and going, it doesn't leave much for the bottom. Read that IRS filing. Look at the policy board salaries. Davis Love hasn't played relevant golf in 10 years and they were paying him 800k per year! Paying players that much to sit in on a few meetings seems like a few extra million for backing the cause. 

How has the PGA Tour "bullied" the DP Tour?

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Just now, LICC said:

How has the PGA Tour "bullied" the DP Tour?

Court proceedings will show by calling sponsors, TV networks and major tournament hosts and making threats and encouraging them to not allow or work with LIV. Those reports have been out since LIV was announced. Usually courts call it collusion or anti trust. It will never get that far though. If the PGA allows the mud to be flung on everyone, it would be the beginning of the end.

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16 minutes ago, LICC said:

Please provide those reports.

It may seem like I have a ton of time, but youth basketball calls. Google works today. I've used it a little. It has been reported on TV, online and in print. If I remember correctly, I think one of the PGA event sponsors even mentioned they had discussed with the tour figuring out how not to let outsiders play. I think major golf networks have been more careful, I'm sure intentionally, who they speak to on air about those things.

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4 hours ago, cardia10 said:

Their "member agreement" is a document that is never signed. It is handed out in a packet. Other PGA members have been allowed to play as they please in competing events and competing tours without question

They aren’t competing tours. The are torus that are partnered with the PGA tour and aren’t in the business of trying to  destroy the PGA tour. The DP World Tour which is usually the sponsor tour of the Saudi events is in partnership with the PGA. You don’t seem to understand the difference between this and what the LIV end especially Greg Norman is out to do. Regardless of whether it’s signed it’s an agreed to policy by the members this it’s enforceable by the PGA tour. It doesn’t matter if the players had to ask permission or not in the past, they were denied the ability to play in a non partnered competitor to the PGA. I will use my profession as an IT professional as an example. If a software developer who works for Microsoft wanted to go do some side work at Google as a software developer, Microsoft is going to stop it because it’s a conflict of interest. If that individual sued Microsoft for preventing this that person would lose the case. If he wanted to go do work for another company associated with Microsoft it would be allowed because it’s not a conflict of interest.

2 hours ago, cardia10 said:

Never said in the US. They have been allowed in Europe, SAUDIA ARABIA, China and Japan without a release at opposite field PGA events and many still hold dual membership on DP tour which the PGA has basically bullied and taken over.

You really lack any knowledge. The DP word Tour was hurting. The PGA stepped into help them. That’s what partnerships are for. It makes it a good business deal for both sides.

 

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6 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

As this has been all too serious. For some comedic relief I found this. 

image.png

Where would you put Tiger and Rory into this?

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7 hours ago, GaDawg said:

Where would you put Tiger and Rory into this?

Well they aren't in LIV so nowhere? 

Tiger however would go in a injured circle. And Rory is currently the best golfer on the planet (strikes gained) so nowhere? 

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2 hours ago, shootmyage said:

as sgt schultz would say " very interesting " 

https://c.newsnow.com/A/1157494285?-60684:2504836872

the truth will come out on pga vs liv .

well worth reading .as it may put a end to all the other lawsuits from both sides 

Eh. Early stage motions to dismiss very frequently get denied.

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https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/sports/golf/liv-saudi-pga.html

Much like the Saudis other ventures, its becoming more evident that if this doesn't take off soon they will drop the project.  They already don't have the best record finishing big projects. See Jeddah tower. 

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13 hours ago, TBS said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/sports/golf/liv-saudi-pga.html

Much like the Saudis other ventures, its becoming more evident that if this doesn't take off soon they will drop the project.  They already don't have the best record finishing big projects. See Jeddah tower. 

Even if they get through a full season next year which I expect they will and future seasons, it will always be a risk of the plug being pulled and it just being left completely. 

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16 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

Even if they get through a full season next year which I expect they will and future seasons, it will always be a risk of the plug being pulled and it just being left completely. 

What I'll be interested to see is, if after the plug gets pulled will those players be allowed back into their respective previous tours or are they relegated to play money matches at Muni's.

 

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Interesting latest article from John Barba.  My guess is that, unlike the example "bridges to nowhere" (the world is rich with those), Rumayyan's personal connection with the sport will keep the venture funded. Curious what the Oddshark over/under is on Mark King becoming the face of LIV Golf?  Replacing the much maligned Norman with a hip, golf industry rock star is a smart play.

Personally, I started losing connection/interest with pro tour golf prior to LIV's start.  Like so many other sports, money, greed, and abject narcissism has overshadowed content and, at least for me, lessened its value.

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I'm guessing that the world of professional golf will one day look back at all the needless divisiveness and be glad Fred has chosen to take the highroad and long view on this decision.  His choice of words, "recent actions", is quite interesting and can be interpreted a number of ways.  

"Regrettably, recent actions have divided men's professional golf by diminishing the virtues of the game and the meaningful legacies of those who built it," Ridley said. "Although we are disappointed in these developments, our focus is to honor the tradition of bringing together a preeminent field of golfers this coming April.

"Therefore, as invitations are sent this week, we will invite those eligible under our current criteria to compete in the 2023 Masters Tournament.”

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On 12/21/2022 at 8:40 AM, shootmyage said:

the magic words from the masters was  " the 2023 masters tournament "  and  " our current criteria " .

we will see how deep in the pockets of the pga tour augusta is in 2024 

Not nearly as deep as the pockets of the Saudis, so I'm not really sure your point? 

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52 minutes ago, shootmyage said:

i was wondering how much pressure the tour was going to put on the masters in 2024 to change rules how people get in to play .  

I don't think the Masters pays much attention to pressure from the Tour, or from anyone else.  I really think that it will be a diminishing issue.  LIV will eventually get world ranking points, but with no cut 54 hole events, and less than outstanding strength of field, points will be pretty limited. Most LIV players will drop out of the "automatic invite" rankings, and the Masters won't need to change a thing. 

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9 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I don't think the Masters pays much attention to pressure from the Tour, or from anyone else.  I really think that it will be a diminishing issue.  LIV will eventually get world ranking points, but with no cut 54 hole events, and less than outstanding strength of field, points will be pretty limited. Most LIV players will drop out of the "automatic invite" rankings, and the Masters won't need to change a thing. 

I saw this article which showed things pretty clear. LIV needs OWGR and fast or players who are not exempt for longer durations will basically fall off the map. 
https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/liv-golf-official-world-rankings-drop/

I do think there were still some that gained places though. 

Anyway a good glance at what has happened and easy to tell who jumped when. 

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the way i see liv now is like its standing at the edge of a cliff with one foot over the edge . there is 3 things that must happen before february .

1--sign at least 3 - 5 more big names like-hovland-cantly-flower- matsuyama ,, scott , xander s.  jon rahm  

2--get a tv deal with fox 1 sports.

3--as far as world points go with liv playing 54 holes with no cut , give liv 3/4 of the points , as far as the no cut thing goes give points to only the top 24 finishers

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On 12/28/2022 at 10:18 AM, shootmyage said:

the way i see liv now is like its standing at the edge of a cliff with one foot over the edge . there is 3 things that must happen before february .

1--sign at least 3 - 5 more big names like-hovland-cantly-flower- matsuyama ,, scott , xander s.  jon rahm  

2--get a tv deal with fox 1 sports.

3--as far as world points go with liv playing 54 holes with no cut , give liv 3/4 of the points , as far as the no cut thing goes give points to only the top 24 finishers

From Ewan Murray:

In late October, LIV’s chief operating officer and president, Atul Khosla, spoke in a composed manner to assembled journalists at Doral. Khosla acknowledged LIV’s need for a broadcast deal. He said a 2023 schedule would appear by the end of the following month. Khosla said teams would be set for this calendar year by the end of 2022.

Shortly before Christmas, it was announced that Khosla – to many the acceptable face of LIV – had left the organisation after just a year. “We respect AK and his personal decision,” said Norman. Sean Bratches lasted six months as chief commercial officer before walking out last May. LIV’s inability to retain experienced, externally hired sporting executives is intriguing. ...

There remains no television contract for LIV in either the US or the UK. A full schedule for this year is yet to appear, with only seven tournaments listed on the LIV website. Rumoured signings – Patrick Cantlay and Xander Schauffele were the most high profile – have opted to remain within the PGA Tour. If the PIF is content to bestow millions of dollars on Pat Perez and Peter Uilhein, fair enough, but otherwise they are going to have to throw even more exorbitant sums to coax big name golfers to LIV. With every such deal, return on investment potential is impacted. And contrary to widespread belief, ROI targets do exist.

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Looks like LIV might not have the unlimited $$$ that they thought. With more direct oversight on the kingdom's Public Investment Fund, makes me think that any of these ventures that do not show a return won't be around too much longer.

Read WSJ article - Saudi Crown Prince Tangles with Sovereign Wealth Fund Over How to Invest Oil Riches

https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-mbs-mohammed-bin-salman-public-investment-fund-11672766494?mod=djem10point

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At this point really feel bad for the guys having to constantly say no, I'm staying just because Liv needs more hype and isn't getting it.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/patrick-cantlay-shuts-down-rumors-about-going-to-liv-golf

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  • 3 weeks later...

LIV secures a contract with CW - https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/35480510/liv-golf-secures-tv-streaming-deal-cw-network

Few takeaways and questions

- all three days will be on CW app

- Sat/Sun will be on CW tv station. Saw somewhere on Twitter someone reply that local CW stations might already have programming on those days for their market and it will be up to them to decide to air or not. I'm in the South East and once upon a time mlb aired some on CW. Quick google shows that Mets still have deal with CW https://www.mlb.com/mets/team/broadcast-information. I don't follow MLB so not sure if this actually a problem.

- LIV doesn't get rights fees and still pays production costs. CW/LIV have a profit sharing agreement.

- Commercials - I'm assuming that there will now be commercials? I'm very interested to see how this works with the shotgun start and keeping the flow and promise of twice as many shots.

- No YouTube - Audience is now primarily US and less accessible internationally. I would think they would want the Asian market. Maybe CW app is available there??

- Nielsen data - Now that its not on Youtube and bots can impact reliability in viewership numbers, I will be very interested what the Nielsen numbers will be. I think this could be a big challenge moving forward.

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... Why stop with the CW? Co Partner with Bravo and have the Housewives Of Riyadh turning over tables on select tee boxes. 

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28 minutes ago, TBS said:

- LIV doesn't get rights fees and still pays production costs. CW/LIV have a profit sharing agreement.

So the CW is risking very little, they don't pay for anything, they simply sell ads and keep a portion of the ad revenue.  LIV covers all costs, and gets a portion of the ad revenue that CW sells.  Its certainly a plus for LIV, they were covering all costs to broadcast the competitions online, now they get better exposure, and a chance to recoup at least a portion of their costs.  Of course Greg overstates this, as all salesmen would:

"We're very proud to note how consequential it is that a league that has only existed for one year has secured a full broadcast deal in its debut full league season"

I wouldn't call this a "full broadcast deal", to me that would mean that CW would pay the productions, and pay LIV for the rights to broadcast these tournaments.  And I'm not sure about "full league season" when only 7 events of the proposed 14 haven't even been announced.  I guess we'll hear about the full schedule soon, but shouldn't that come first?

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LIV intro better be a remake of the Dawson's Creek intro...if not, what are we even doing here? 

But seriously, moving from YouTube to the CW/CW App (I'd venture to guess a vast majority of people didn't even know The CW had an app) seems to be a very questionable move.  Yes, it's on TV, but must less accessible in the US.

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