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Liv Golf Central Thread: Events and News


Thin2win

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I will watch because it is golf.  Just like I watch the DP World Tour, Ladies European Tour, and LPGA.  And I know everybody hates my oftentimes outlandish examples, but here comes another one.

The United States of America made it to the moon,  mainly because we whisked Nazi Rocket Scientist Verner von Braun out of Germany after WW2.  He was the guy who developed the V2 rocket, whose 2,200 lb. explosive warheads rained down on the Allies during WW2.  So to stay ahead of the Russians after the war, we quickly got over the fact that von Braun was member of the Nazi party, and the SS.

And we all love the U.S. main battle tank the M1 Abrams, watching it destroy Iraqi tanks, during desert storm etc.  I know I did.  Anyone want to guess who makes the smoothbore, 120 mm main cannon on the Abrams.  You guessed it Rheinmettal of West Germany.  The same company who during WW2 made Flak 88's , to shoot at our bombers, various caliber of Anti-tank guns, and the main gun for the German Panther Tank, which destroyed many allied tanks and vehicles(and the soldiers inside of them).

I don't really have a point, other than to say, I'm pretty sure most Americans don't know that our main battle tank is presently armed with a weapon which is produced by a company, that made thousands of weapons for the German Army in WW2, which were used to kill thousands of Allied soldiers during that conflict.

Every country has done horrible things, and does questionable things.  

 

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8 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

Every country has done horrible things, and does questionable things.  

Okay. I will bite on this. You have made a statement that is true and not challengeable. HOWEVER, this golf league is literally sponsored, backed, formed and run by a government/royal family for the purposes of improving optics for that country. Compare this to another country with some human rights violations to its name currently, China. China has a pga tour event. It undoubtedly serves some interests of the Chinese government BUT is not solely backed by that government. Everyone can do the "whataboutism" on this but to me this is a straight through line to trying to whitewash Saudi activities. Now, that said, if people want to go over there and grab cash then fine. But do not feed me this b***s*** about "growing the game." Who actually believes that. It is about "growing our wallets" and "improving geopolitical impressions" etc. 

Also, we have to remember that most of the rest of the world is not as concerned with what Saudi Arabia is doing. We feel it more acutely here. 

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2 hours ago, vandyland said:

Okay. I will bite on this. You have made a statement that is true and not challengeable. HOWEVER, this golf league is literally sponsored, backed, formed and run by a government/royal family for the purposes of improving optics for that country. Compare this to another country with some human rights violations to its name currently, China. China has a pga tour event. It undoubtedly serves some interests of the Chinese government BUT is not solely backed by that government. Everyone can do the "whataboutism" on this but to me this is a straight through line to trying to whitewash Saudi activities. Now, that said, if people want to go over there and grab cash then fine. But do not feed me this b***s*** about "growing the game." Who actually believes that. It is about "growing our wallets" and "improving geopolitical impressions" etc. 

Also, we have to remember that most of the rest of the world is not as concerned with what Saudi Arabia is doing. We feel it more acutely here. 

I think that is where the biggest issue comes. This from nearly every angle isn't growing the game. It is causing more division then growth. Maybe it is getting more ppl talking about golf, but not likely in the proper light. 

For me growth comes from grass roots and working its way up from there. Yes, the top can influence growth in ways, but true stable growth comes from grass roots. Again my own opinion. 

It's not even as though this will get a huge audience as they weren't able to sell the broadcast rights to anyone big and it will be streamed on YouTube as I've heard.

The Netflix PGA drive to survive type series will certainly do more to "grow the game" then this league which put simply again to me, paying millions more to millionaires just doesn't have the appeal to me. Not saying the regular PGA is something I love to watch, but I do tune on each week to see how things are going (mainly due to our fantasy league).

 

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3 hours ago, vandyland said:

Also, we have to remember that most of the rest of the world is not as concerned with what Saudi Arabia is doing. We feel it more acutely here. 

Really? Who says? How do you know this? What makes "us" so special and sensitive to what Saudi Arabia is doing compared to the rest of the world?

Also.... growing the game is just a bunch of bunk... across the board.

I won't go any further with this because I already went where we aren't supposed to go because my questions will be/are considered politics. MODS... feel free to remove my post and reprimand me if you must. 

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I think the "growing the game" is code for "getting a piece of the pie".  The PGA does not have exclusive rights to the worlds business of professional golf.  Whether it be LIV/Shark Tour now or another country/entity attempting to stand-up a competing tour in the future, free market competition is always a possibility.  Whether they can actually compete and take a piece of the pie remains to be seen but, free market businesses will always face competition and no one that can pass a fog the mirror test should be surprised that it is all about the money.

Great points have been made as to the double standard being applied to the Saudi's... plenty of wretched history to go around.  Also, why is golf being singled out and not Formula 1 racing, boxing, soccer, or other sports in which Saudi $$$$ runs deep?

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14 hours ago, silver & black said:

Really? Who says? How do you know this? What makes "us" so special and sensitive to what Saudi Arabia is doing compared to the rest of the world?

I lived in London for two years. On my teams I worked with people from 4 different continents (none of them North America). Many people had been to Riyadh, Jeddah, Saleh, etc on vacation . They are not bad people for going there and spending money but it is just more common for them to go there and spend money. It is more normalized for them. Yes, I cannot speak for the rest of the world but Saudi money and investment is more prevalent in the UK and Europe. There is a ton of commercial real estate investment and well as private equity backing that is just a part of, especially but not exclusively, the London Finance scene. But maybe I am just a moron and you can tell me more about it. 

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28 minutes ago, vandyland said:

I lived in London for two years. On my teams I worked with people from 4 different continents (none of them North America). Many people had been to Riyadh, Jeddah, Saleh, etc on vacation . They are not bad people for going there and spending money but it is just more common for them to go there and spend money. It is more normalized for them. Yes, I cannot speak for the rest of the world but Saudi money and investment is more prevalent in the UK and Europe. There is a ton of commercial real estate investment and well as private equity backing that is just a part of, especially but not exclusively, the London Finance scene. But maybe I am just a moron and you can tell me more about it. 

Living in Europe I can second this as it is more common here for ppl to go on vacation in Saudi and as said is more normalized in general. Just my observation having been here a couple years and spent a lot of time over the last 6 or so years in Europe. 

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I think the LIV golf goal for the Saudi group was less focused on disrupting the PGA, and much more focused on disrupting the DP Tour. As has been discussed in every media outlet, rank and file PGA members make a good living. But DP tour payouts are significantly less. I know the American backlash to LIV is substantial. I don't know how the majority of Europe feels about it, but as mentioned above, Saudi is more closely tied to Europe, and having more money available for that group of golfers is probably not a bad thing. The Byron this week had a purse of 9.1 million, the DP tour event this week had a purse of 2m. Basically a 5 - 1 payout.

American sentiment towards Saudi isn't the global sentiment.

Also as mentioned and discussed above, LIV golf does nothing to grow the game... in America. But abroad it probably does. It is showing the middle east, europe and even asia(looking at the location of its stops) that there is another path to golf fame, glory and money other then the PGA tour. Was hiring Greg Norman the best choice of spokes people... yeah, probably not. But does dumping a big chunk of money for sports make them bad? Would it be better if they weren't doing this? I mean, what if the winners of these LIV events followed something that Harry said on the NPG podcast and donated half their winnings back to groups in Saudi that promote human rights and progression? I don't see it happening from everyone, but I bet some of the winners do.

I don't think this really affects golf in America, I think it might actually help grow the game abroad. I would be much more critical of this if it was being put on by North Korea, Iran or Russia. But those are my biases kicking in. Saudi Arabia is definitely shinning a big spotlight on itself, which I think will make it have to make changes faster then it would otherwise. Its much easier to be shady in the shadows.

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26 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

Saudi Arabia is definitely shinning a big spotlight on itself, which I think will make it have to make changes faster then it would otherwise.

SA is shining a big spotlight on itself specific things that distract people from other events going on in their country. When asked about Jamal Khashoggi's murder, Greg Norman said "people make mistakes." So, allegedly, killing a journalist and dismembering him with a bonesaw is now a mistake. Please google Saudi Arabia and executions as well. Please google Saudia Arabia and the 9/11 hiijackers nation of origin. Please just google Saudi Arabia in general. 

 

29 minutes ago, Thin2win said:

But does dumping a big chunk of money for sports make them bad? Would it be better if they weren't doing this?

In my opinion, yes, it would be better if they (the Saudis) were not doing this. If you think the Saudi government is dumping absurd amounts of money into these events because they want to grow the game of golf (like, you seriously think that is their primary objective? Seriously?) then I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you. 

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On 5/18/2022 at 5:15 AM, vandyland said:

SA is shining a big spotlight on itself specific things that distract people from other events going on in their country. When asked about Jamal Khashoggi's murder, Greg Norman said "people make mistakes." So, allegedly, killing a journalist and dismembering him with a bonesaw is now a mistake. Please google Saudi Arabia and executions as well. Please google Saudia Arabia and the 9/11 hiijackers nation of origin. Please just google Saudi Arabia in general. 

 

In my opinion, yes, it would be better if they (the Saudis) were not doing this. If you think the Saudi government is dumping absurd amounts of money into these events because they want to grow the game of golf (like, you seriously think that is their primary objective? Seriously?) then I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you. 

Are you speaking from the high moral ground of no mistakes in your history, as an example I learnt about the horrible things that happened to people who wrote left handed. Burnt at the stake, and so much more. At what point do we become better than that, a and I learnt two wrongs don't make it right. A better thing in my view is doing something about the Putin madness, my intent is only to discover a better way not to offend.

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I had not heard about this... you?

Golf legend Jack Nicklaus reveals he shunned $100 million offer from LIV Golf: 'I helped start the PGA Tour' - CBSSports.com

No big surprise Jack passed on the offer, but let's be honest, that's easier to do when that number is on the right side of the decimal place on one's net worth 🙂.  

Other happenings includes Sean Bratches resigning, and Norman and the Saudi's having a spat... all this right before the series is scheduled to begin June 9.  Super Golf League / LIV Tour / Shark Tour, whatever the heck this is or will be called is off to a rocky start. 

Golf 2022: LIV Golf Invitational, PGA Tour, Greg Norman on nose with Saudis, Sean Bratches resigns, Donald Trump (foxsports.com.au)

I still cannot find a source that lists the preliminary playing field or teams for the first event.  I suppose next we'll hear that some Korn Ferry and/or college players are heading over to cash in and Trump will be the new Commissioner 😆

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14 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

I had not heard about this... you?

Golf legend Jack Nicklaus reveals he shunned $100 million offer from LIV Golf: 'I helped start the PGA Tour' - CBSSports.com

No big surprise Jack passed on the offer, but let's be honest, that's easier to do when that number is on the right side of the decimal place on one's net worth 🙂.  

Other happenings includes Sean Bratches resigning, and Norman and the Saudi's having a spat... all this right before the series is scheduled to begin June 9.  Super Golf League / LIV Tour / Shark Tour, whatever the heck this is or will be called is off to a rocky start. 

Golf 2022: LIV Golf Invitational, PGA Tour, Greg Norman on nose with Saudis, Sean Bratches resigns, Donald Trump (foxsports.com.au)

I still cannot find a source that lists the preliminary playing field or teams for the first event.  I suppose next we'll hear that some Korn Ferry and/or college players are heading over to cash in and Trump will be the new Commissioner 😆

There is a lot going on with the Jack side of things. I guess he wanted to take the offer, but was told by his company that he couldn't and sued or would have been sued had he taken it along with much more. Still a lot more to come in that space I would imagine. 

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16 minutes ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

There is a lot going on with the Jack side of things. I guess he wanted to take the offer, but was told by his company that he couldn't and sued or would have been sued had he taken it along with much more. Still a lot more to come in that space I would imagine. 

Had not heard that either and definitely puts a twist on the subject.  I did just see that Fowler is (was) considering playing in the series.  He is one of many former top end players who have lost their games and are at that point in their careers where the VERY BIG breadcrumbs must look awfully enticing.

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13 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I had not heard about this... you?

Golf legend Jack Nicklaus reveals he shunned $100 million offer from LIV Golf: 'I helped start the PGA Tour' - CBSSports.com

No big surprise Jack passed on the offer, but let's be honest, that's easier to do when that number is on the right side of the decimal place on one's net worth 🙂.  

Other happenings includes Sean Bratches resigning, and Norman and the Saudi's having a spat... all this right before the series is scheduled to begin June 9.  Super Golf League / LIV Tour / Shark Tour, whatever the heck this is or will be called is off to a rocky start. 

Golf 2022: LIV Golf Invitational, PGA Tour, Greg Norman on nose with Saudis, Sean Bratches resigns, Donald Trump (foxsports.com.au)

I still cannot find a source that lists the preliminary playing field or teams for the first event.  I suppose next we'll hear that some Korn Ferry and/or college players are heading over to cash in and Trump will be the new Commissioner 😆

I think Greg will come out of this circus much richer than when he started it, no flies on him but the Saudi organization play dirty pool...

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On 5/24/2022 at 4:55 PM, fixyurdivot said:

Had not heard that either and definitely puts a twist on the subject.  I did just see that Fowler is (was) considering playing in the series.  He is one of many former top end players who have lost their games and are at that point in their careers where the VERY BIG breadcrumbs must look awfully enticing.

That accusation about Jack is according to Milstein. Jack denies it.

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On 5/24/2022 at 4:17 PM, fixyurdivot said:

I had not heard about this... you?

Golf legend Jack Nicklaus reveals he shunned $100 million offer from LIV Golf: 'I helped start the PGA Tour' - CBSSports.com

No big surprise Jack passed on the offer, but let's be honest, that's easier to do when that number is on the right side of the decimal place on one's net worth 🙂.  

Other happenings includes Sean Bratches resigning, and Norman and the Saudi's having a spat... all this right before the series is scheduled to begin June 9.  Super Golf League / LIV Tour / Shark Tour, whatever the heck this is or will be called is off to a rocky start. 

Golf 2022: LIV Golf Invitational, PGA Tour, Greg Norman on nose with Saudis, Sean Bratches resigns, Donald Trump (foxsports.com.au)

I still cannot find a source that lists the preliminary playing field or teams for the first event.  I suppose next we'll hear that some Korn Ferry and/or college players are heading over to cash in and Trump will be the new Commissioner 😆

The venue that LIV booked a party prior to the first event cancelled on LIV.

I've also read one of the U.S. courses named for one of the events has an upset membership that wants to back out. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens.

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1 hour ago, LICC said:

I've also read one of the U.S. courses named for one of the events has an upset membership that wants to back out. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens.

Have you read which course it is?

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6 minutes ago, LICC said:

Pumpkin Ridge.

Thanks, I did find an article about it.  Its an interesting problem, the course owners have signed a contract, and there could be significant financial repercussions if they choose to back out.  There could also be repercussions if members leave the club in protest.  None of us know the "balance of power" between owners and members there, but its possible that the only leverage that the members have is to quit.  I don't know if that's likely, not understanding the availability of good golf in that area.  Time will tell, but I'll be a little surprised (not astounded, just a little surprised) if the club indeed backs out.

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